Author Topic: General Discussion  (Read 3788867 times)

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Offline DarkTl

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #8280 on: August 28, 2016, 10:06:27 AM »
Quote
DELIVERY = ["magic", "ranged", "melee", "status"] # Damage/Effects Delivery Methods
DAMAGE = ["physical", "fire", "water", "ice", "earth", "air", "electricity", "light", "darkness", "healing", "poison"] # Damage (Effect) types...
We might want to treat any healing spells separately, they shouldn't work only in very special cases. "Magic" delivery assumes magic defense formula should work against the spell.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2016, 10:09:45 AM by DarkTl »

Offline lamoli

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #8281 on: August 28, 2016, 10:59:43 AM »
here the test leather/rubber





Even if i reduce the cracks in leather i think rubber will be closer to original..

Offline DarkTl

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #8282 on: August 28, 2016, 11:17:37 AM »
Yeah, rubber looks very suitable.

Offline lamoli

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #8283 on: August 29, 2016, 08:13:14 AM »
Yeah look even good for boots reflect ( kept left as original )





still need to rework on whats left of the older game texture but atm the skirt looks really flat while its not at all on the 3D model i need to fix that

Offline Xela

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #8284 on: August 29, 2016, 11:23:20 AM »
still need to rework on whats left of the older game texture but atm the skirt looks really flat while its not at all on the 3D model i need to fix that

No... it really doesn't. It's as close to Anime as it gets, on par with AA2 chars or even better. Make a damn pack and a guide :)
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Offline lamoli

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #8285 on: August 29, 2016, 03:24:28 PM »
Yes im close of making my first pack but first i need to find the right balance of rendering settings for materials and those last renders are about that.. its not improving the shape but how it looks like and that really important if you want a random girl without defined clothing ( most unique would have them and a basis on how they should look ) so unless we get stuck with unique girls outfits that i put on random girls.. i have to improve how normal clothing ( without texture source ) looks like and from previous render you can see left and right leg.. texture vs generated and looks close enough.. i still have problem for generated fabrics like skirt who looks flat but will find a way to correct it for sure.. next up was the metals who have a fake transparency ( would look horrible on closer shot so need improvement then the left ( her right arm clothing )


When all that is done ill have the basis to work on ( cotton/velvet/leather/rubber/metal/silk ) and should be able to take any DOA clothing Dark choosed for me.. break em into pieces and create multi unique variants form their basis and create our random girl wardrobes you could say.. ( i could do that before but there was no way to replace original texture with something else as im not good with 2D edits ) but now i found ways to generate them in blender and make them look alright.. same for the hair.. previous link i posed leads to a guy who took all the different existing kind he found and this last hair type is a variant of 1 he had there..


For the Guide.. i guess i can explain how i do it but lots of steps require advanced skills working with 3D ( atm theres no press a button and done ) thats why im making all those unique girls who have different head types.. it made me do the last 3 girls like 4 to 5 times faster as i had already 4 other head as basis and at least 1 closer to what i needed.. i will make a quick list of what you need to get used too to make it work.. ( ill skip all the things where i found a fast way using a tool or alternative way and just tell the has to be skilled with part with the steps..)


1. If its from a already made 3D model.. you have to import it into blender, most of em will be XPS (Xnalara) or MMD.. blender has free addons to load those..
2. after you have the one you want loaded you have to import the base you want to use from Daz3D.. ( if you have something close to the targeted model use that else import the default G2F ( i will explain how to tweak it later ) separate them into layers if you want..
3. then you have to resize the G2F to the target height and this is where you see what need to be tweaked.. there is no first steps but there but im most cases unless you have made a model alike its not looking similar at all.. there if its MMD or XPS i use their rig to match the G2F T pose..
4. in general those models will use a different texture map so when it match the G2F T pose you have to apply the armature of every part of that model then export/import them as obj else when you join the parts with G2F the UV mapping will be useless once its done i join the target to G2F so i could resize G2F back to 1:1 with the target model with it.. then separate G2F then delete it to remain with target model who has the right size to be inported to Daz and make a G2F match of it
5. in Daz load the default G2f or close model like you have then import the model from blender as obj ( rig is useless from this point so always use obj format ) now tweak the G2F to match the imported model legs/arms/torso/neck length and legs/hip/waist/torso/neck witdh..
[/size]6. If you have made previous faces that could match the one you want now load it and tweak it as close as you can to match imported model if you do not have other faces tweak G2f but will for certain need a lot of work later on..
[/size]7. once both body and face are like the imported model or at least the closest you can do.. export as a obj
[/size]8. in blender with the file you exported the targed model with load the alike G2F model and resize it to the targeted model ( or dont resize and work on exported resized nodel ) both orks but with blender if its too large you migh have some camera display troubles..
[/size]9. with either above ways now you can either start on face or clothing.. usually i do clothing firs as its the fastest so will explain clothing first..
[/size]10. you previously joined the MMD/XPS parts as a model but did not remove the double or trash the always come with those ( not sure why but other than the one i make i never found a clean model to work with ).. to separate them go in edit mode and select parts using the material library.. this will allow you to split them back to their original parts
[/size]11. once all are separated as before you will have to take each part individually as the usually comes in groups ( ex: all the clothing material as a group like clothing on arms/legs/body ) what we need now is to clean everything ( remove the doubles/merge the parts that are separated to form complete parts like boots/gloves/body/skirt
[/size]12. most models will fake thickness or use a inner layer to display another material on the back side.. we dont need that in blender as we could ad something else on the back side without it ( and having thickness here now will cause trouble later ( so now we remove it then add it with blender as modifier later on ) basically we keep the normal pointing outside and delete the ones pointing inside.. also never have clothing vertex inside the body models body.. lots of clothing models have closing caps.. we need to cut those around the model of the body so nothing enters it.. also some models have their double on top of em with flipped normals we also need to delete those..
[/size]13. once extra normals layer/caps/thickness is deleted you can remove doubles.. ( if you do that too early some normals or inner texture will be on the wrong side ) and join the patrs..
[/size]14. now you need to convert triangles to quad.. there is a tool for that but its not perfect meaning you will probably have to inspect everything to make sure it worked.. it also mess with textures next to a seam.. so generaly limit my face selections to seam so textures arent messes with ( you could always correct those in UV editor but thats extra time.. )
[/size]15. when you have quads ( might end up with a few triangle but never had more than 10 om the whole model or 5 sided polys ) thats where you have to know about Topology.. to know where you can use those 3 or 5 faced polys.. else you will mess the subdivision and texture you will apply on it ( work as best as you can to get nice edge loops on the corners and model in general but edges are more important )
[/size]16. add subdivision surfaces modifier and check in wireframe how it looks like.. from this point you might have to correct the topology to get what you want..
[/size]17. now with subdivision on you will make the clothing part you need fits the Modified G2F body until you have no poke thru.. if the cothing has no defined volume you can shrinkwarp it around the body but takes skills to do it right.. i generaly use the grab magnet with connected function but also needs skills.. if your new at this best way would be to pull vertex 1 at time and keep relative space original used to keep clothes volume it had on original.. ( if you G2F body match almost perfectly you will almost have nothing to do there ) that why i usually make lots of body types with small modification i could tweak to have a perfect match and save up time on clothing )
[/size]18. once every part is done.. a important thing is to keep skirt separated when you export.. for the res its up to you to keep the rest as multi parts or single part..
[/size]19. on daz with the modified body loaded you can import you clothing part and transfer them into clothing item.. always transfer G2F/current -- clothing item no template options / reverse .. but for skirt its the same with the basicdress as template and when its transferent it will look out of shape.. thats where you chose the clothing item and load morph loader pro to morph it to original shape
[/size]20. now you can load the textures that came with the clothing.. then save em into library for future uses.. when used with poses you might have pokethru so you could add a smooth modifier.. but need to know a few trick to use it right.
[/size]21 the face.. if it you first time it wont be even close to target even with all the Daz morphs so like clothing you will have to pull those vertexes and here absolutely no separating parts.. only hiding is permitted else you will lose verts order and it will load all distorted in Daz.. in 99.9% of cases if its not a face you have made.. it lost all its symmetry as ppl making the base morph you used to match your target to the closest didnt care about that.. so we first need to restore that..
[/size]22. easiest way to get symmetry back is to make a double of the body select the middle verts loop of the body then make a seam on it ( you remove it when not needed anymore ) the select a vert on the right side of the body.. and limit linked selection to seam.. this will select everything on the right side of the body now invert selection then delete.. you will remain with right side only then mirror on X global and name it something like something warp target something..
[/size]23. now on original body select the left part with middle included and create a verts group from it named like warp something.. then apply a srinkwarp on original body and chose the warp target and vert warp as limiter and select to the closes vertex.. doing so will make left side symmetric to right apply modifier enter edit select all the body ad x mirror from options and pull left right.. this is where you see if symmetry worked.. sometimes some verts who where too close didnt ends where they should have so you need to pull them back manualy where they should be (remove x mirror first then use the tageted warp in wireframe on top of original body to have the verts position and correct em) in general you only have to work on the middle ones but not always..( middle need to be at x 0 )
[/size]24. ther than body you have eyes and mouth parts.. eyes you only keep right side delete left on the body double then x mirror to use as reference.. but since there lots of verts are close together you need to separate each object then make relative vetrs groups in the original body same for the mouth but like body you also need to separate right from left
[/size]25 once all the symmetry works you can start working on the face but remember for the daz expression/basic morph shapes to work right you need to keep most verts spacing around the mouth and eyes.. but with anime face and their big eyes you will lose for certain the eye closing.. but thats fine you will make a custom one later there like clothing you also use the MMD/XPS model shape to move those vert on the surface of it.. ( this is the longest part and need a lot of practice to keep the right verts spacing and shape ) being on the surface isnt enough as in most case it will be too flat and woulnd look good so you need skills to adjust it right afterwards..
[/size]26. when its done you can load it a morph into Daz and have you character ready for posing.. its where if you want you make a rig for the hair or lose part like skirt.. but if you imported skirt with basic dress you should already have some control.. when pose/expressions are done export and load into blender
[/size]27. now to make it look right iv spend a long time tweaking a file with ready to render settings.... using that to load the model.. you just have to add textures and render then its done.. ( but sometimes you need to correct a thing or 2 that Daz didnt correct while posing.

Offline lamoli

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #8286 on: August 29, 2016, 03:26:09 PM »
noooooo.. ohh well screw that.. im not gone retype the 23 broken lines again..


Edit:
Maybe i can correct this but not sure how..
« Last Edit: August 29, 2016, 03:38:01 PM by lamoli »

Offline lamoli

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #8287 on: August 29, 2016, 04:05:22 PM »
And that was for pre existing models only..


For the made out of pictures.. you need the best highrez front side of a character sheet as they usualy keep the same proportions when they do those but most wont have the side view.. they will use a rotated version.. if its your first time trying those i would recommend doing a few faces from the 3D model basis tutorial first as since you have no way to know how face looks like in volume you need a few already 3D face that looks close to it to attempt it. ( it never took me more than day to make a face and now with more base models.. its even faster but skill related i guess) if you have a 3D model  that looks close to it load in in daz as morph then export/import into blender and start working on the front/side view untill they match .. when its done you will have to tweak without reference the rest ising the base shape who looked the closest or if skilled/practiced enough you know what to do to make it look right..


For either face or clothing its simpler to pose a look alike daz model to match the reference picture like we did in the other tutorial only difference is you will create clothing parts in front or left view then adjust is to warp around the body.. basic topology knowledge is not a requirement but could be best to have when you do this..


Basicaly before you do this type you need a lot of practice working on a already made 3D model else it would take so long you migh give up midway..
« Last Edit: August 29, 2016, 04:10:18 PM by lamoli »

Offline Xela

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #8288 on: August 29, 2016, 05:27:33 PM »
it would take so long you migh give up midway..

True... it's a far more complex process that I thought. This level of experience may not be "passable" through a guide. We can create a chat-room over the weekend. For now, I need to know a line of soft (cured of greed or simply open source) that is required. For now I can gather:

- DAZ3D
- Source FilmMaker
- Blender
- XNALara
- MikuMikuDance

I have three (XNA, DAZ and MMD) installed atm. Until we're on the same page with the soft and extensions, any guide is useless. So if more than this is needed, let me know. There is an excellent private chat system called "discord" so lets get on the same page with the basics. Once we have the same software setup, you can delegate some of the rendering required to make proper packs.

=====================>>>>
I am almost done with the new BE logic, gonna push tomorrow. I have it working in my dev version already :) All the new formulas and logic and per damage effect reports :)
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #8289 on: August 30, 2016, 10:57:03 AM »
We have more webm animations than we need for beta  :)
The plan is to make weapons rather unique, since every one has its own skill list (which you should add too btw, there is no support for skills atm, only for spells).

Offline Xela

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #8290 on: August 30, 2016, 12:27:41 PM »
We have more webm animations than we need for beta  :)
The plan is to make weapons rather unique, since every one has its own skill list (which you should add too btw, there is no support for skills atm, only for spells).

Yeah, I remember that.
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Offline lamoli

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #8291 on: August 30, 2016, 12:32:27 PM »
True... it's a far more complex process that I thought. This level of experience may not be "passable" through a guide. We can create a chat-room over the weekend. For now, I need to know a line of soft (cured of greed or simply open source) that is required. For now I can gather:

- DAZ3D
- Source FilmMaker
- Blender
- XNALara
- MikuMikuDance

I have three (XNA, DAZ and MMD) installed atm. Until we're on the same page with the soft and extensions, any guide is useless. So if more than this is needed, let me know. There is an excellent private chat system called "discord" so lets get on the same page with the basics. Once we have the same software setup, you can delegate some of the rendering required to make proper packs.

=====================>>>>
I am almost done with the new BE logic, gonna push tomorrow. I have it working in my dev version already :) All the new formulas and logic and per damage effect reports :)


All thats needed atm is..
--------------------------


Default Daz3D.. i will provide you the morphs/models/poses iv made..
Blender with xps-tools and mmd-tools ( i use other scripts but those where for rope/chain physics but not working on those atm )


If your good at 2D edits..
---------------------------


CrazyBumps to extract the whole set of occ/disp/ligh/norm out of a plain texture ( bad at working with 2D so went generated textures in blender.. but having both would be best )


Other useful to have depending on what we might need..
------------------------------------------------------------


MikuMikuDance/metasequoia.. if we need a model thats only in the .mqo format to convert it
SourceFilmMaker.. for the same reason


but in general there are website giving their models for free..

Offline lamoli

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #8292 on: August 30, 2016, 12:50:21 PM »
Only the Metal on arm and skirt missing but looks good enough so will stop here





the skirt need improvement still but it would require a normal map and since 2D isnt my thing i need to find something existing i could use..
but i could say results for textile/leather/velvet/silk/rubber/metal looks good enough to make the random clothes needed

Offline DarkTl

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #8293 on: September 02, 2016, 08:36:15 AM »
Elements descriptions fixed, numbers rebalanced. Are you going to add that different elements system which combines all resistances and absorptions or not? I don't get it.

Offline Xela

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #8294 on: September 02, 2016, 08:59:19 AM »
Elements descriptions fixed, numbers rebalanced. Are you going to add that different elements system which combines all resistances and absorptions or not? I don't get it.

Ours is basically the same but with an extra sprinkle on top and a bit more calculations most of which I've already wrote. So no :) Most of the code is ready, I am just putting all the small bits together and in the right order and working out the crashes which avalanche on me every time I rewrite complex code with complex code.
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