devolution

Poll

Do you want Player controled combat in WMX?

No, I prefer that the game focus on managment aspects.
19 (33.9%)
Yes, but I want to be able to turn it off when I don't feel like fighting the battles myself.
33 (58.9%)
Yes, player should control all battles.
4 (7.1%)

Total Members Voted: 56

Voting closed: July 16, 2012, 12:16:00 PM

Author Topic: Whore Master Cathexis  (Read 119064 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline graodeareia

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 60
Whore Master Cathexis
« on: January 31, 2012, 09:54:20 PM »
UPDATE July 13: link

About a week ago a wrote a post on the WMEx thread about how I had decided to write a new WM game from scratch. For those of you that read that post and wondered if I had given up, wonder no more. I worked hard this week in order to get something out. I created this thread so that we can work together on game design (eg deciding how the game will work). I will create another thread to focus on game development (eg writing code). So in this post I will talk a little about the game design so far and what we should focus on for now.
The game design include everything about how the game works, all the rules, interections and so on. But we must not get ahead of our selves. To keep things simple and get a working game out there I think we should focus on a specific point of the game, get that code working, and then move on to something else. This will be a prototype based aproach where if people leave the team (myself included) there will be working code and design rules that others can carry on. Other advantages to this approach include early feedback (its faster and easier to fix things sooner than later), well tested code base (people can test out the features as the game matures, so that the final product is more stable) and a very important point that is to design something we can actually build. Its comom for software projects that do all the design first and code later to have severals problems on the coding fase. For instance there may be technical dificulties to executing a specific design point, and that may lead to redesign or even simply canceling features. Also, the design may become too large or too complex and that will lead to game that takes ages to complete. The prototype aproach on the other hand, will always lead to a working game, even if it has very few features. If a team abandons the project, others can pick it up and have a solid foundation to build features on top of, just like they do today with the current WM.

From now on this post will focus on the design features that I working on. Please keep the sugestions limited to the topic at hand. Will the game have feature X or will I be able to do action Y? We will see when we get there.

I decided that the best place to start will be on the girls attributes. Attributes are the core skill the girl will have. The reason why its important to start here is becouse everything else is derived from this. How good is a girls in doing a certain job? Look at her attributes. Will my girl win a fight in the dungeon? Look at her attributes. How fast will the girl get tired? Attributes. How will this item or trait affect my girl? It will affect her attributes. You get the Ideia.
Anyways, one of my my design goals is to make things as simple as possible. That way the player can easily understand how and why things are happening the way they are. WM currently has some confusing rules under the hood and its pretty hard to understand why things are the way they are. I want the new game to be more clear in that sense. So when you go buy a slave for instance, you can quickly look at her attributes and decide whats is the best girl for the job.
The skill system is WM is very similar to many RPGs. So started from there. Wikipedia informed me about the code attributes that are used in the most popular RPG systems out there. After looking at that and considering what WM actully needs I came up with 5 basic attributes, those are:

Strength (STR): Combat, Combat Damage, ability to carry heavy items (like a heavy armor or weapon), Stamina, can give penalty to Charisma
Constitution (CON) - Health and Stamina, Combat Resistance, Spell Resistance, resistance to disease and vices
Wisdom (WIS)- Discipline, Spell, Spell Damage, Spell Resistance, Charisma
Dexterity (DEX) - Combat, Spell
Beauty (BEU) - Charisma, can give a bonus or penalty to Discipline

Initialy I wanted only 4 basic attributes. BEU would not be one of them. But after a little thought I decided that a whore really needs that. So I had to add it, making things a little more complex than I initialy planned. Also for now, BEU is actually the least important attrbitute in the skill system. I plan to solve that later by adding game features that makes this attribute as important as the others. In adition to the described above all the atributes may give bonus or penalty to how good a job is executed. For instance a strong girl may be better at cleanig. A pretty girl may be a more succeful waitress since more customers will want her to be there attendent. How jobs are going to be affected will be decided when we get to designing the jobs/skill system. That should help balancing the importance of the basic attributes. The goal is that all of them should be just as important and girls with diferent attributes should be better at performing certain tasks then others.

Now for the secondary attributes. All other attributes are automaticly calculated from the base ones. That means that only the basic attributes should be set on girl packages. It also mean that evaluating a girl should be only a matter of looking at the basic attributes. There is one catch though. Traits as well as items may direcly affect the secondary attributes. So a girl with crappy basic attributes but lots of positive traits may actually be a good pick. Are the secondary attributes.

General

Stamina - base STR, CON - defines how much energy a girl has for combat and work. When it runs out a girl has to rest to recover it.
Health - base CON - How much damage a girl can take
Mana - base WIS - How much spells a girl can cast

Job related

Discipline - base WIS, BEU - how well jobs are executed, how fast a girl can learn (get experience)
Charisma - base BEU, WIS, STR - how much custormers like the girls, girls with high charisma will have more succes at tasks that require them to interect with customers.

Combat related

Combat - base DEX, STR - the chance of hiting or defending a physical attack, does not affect damage (comsumes Stamina)
Spell - base WIS, DEX - the chance to hit or defend a magical attack (Comsumes Mana)
Combat Damage - base STR - how much damage is cased on a successful Combat hit
Spell Damage - base WIS - how much damage is cased on a successful Spell hit
Spell Resistance - base CON, WIS - Spell damage taken is reduced by this
Damage Resistance - base CON - Combat damage taken is reduced by this

What I need help with

First I need feedback on the attributes described, should I add one, remove another. Should I change the base attribute thats used to calculated the others? For instance I decided not to add libido. It wasnt very clear how much it affected the game play. You could have a whore with zero libido doing 6-8 customers per period and the customers would all be happy and give tips. Sure you could say things like a girl having sex with no libido will get sad or tired. But is those kind of details important enough to justify adding another attribute, therefore making the game more complex?
Second there is one of the most important points of the game missing here. Obedience. In the original WM Obedience is linked to the girls feeling, like happiness, love/hate and also things like Spirit and Confidence. In this game we are going to have to add fealings and somehow combine that with Dicipline and make things work. I'm just not sure how that should be done. I could just forget feelings and simply add Obedience and be done. But I'm not confident that thats is the best option. So here is where most of the work should be focused next.

One more thing I forgot to mention, Attributes are based on a 20 sided dice (d20) so max is 20 min is 1. Alright in the next post I will talk about how combat works, but I still got to code a combat demo.
I have a working programa that you can play with the attributes. I will post that soon.
Update:
The Attrites demo has been updated so that now I have Revision 1 of the attributes: http://www.mediafire.com/?pr7ft1elg2650wo
« Last Edit: July 16, 2012, 10:29:47 PM by graodeareia »

Offline crazy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 733
Re: Whore Master II
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2012, 12:31:19 AM »
I would try and find a way to work feelings into it atleast love/hate and happiness those seem important to me.  And libido doesn't really make it that much more complex for a player maybe for you to code but still seems like it should be in there.  For combat i would consider a ranged attribute but not sure how u would add it.  Other then that things seem fine to me Im sure others will throw some ideals out there.  Read your post in EX just a minute ago and just going say they were adding lua as the scripting system to WM think doc got around 50% done with before he stopped.  But with so many people saying that things cant be done in WM cause it would be to hard to code I think you still made the right choice.  Im sure I could come up with 100 questions but ill let u post your plans before I go into anything.

Offline Ctwo

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 59
Re: Whore Master II
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2012, 06:14:57 AM »
Libedo seems to be a very complciated stat in WM. A girl looses some libedo when she has sex. If you have a very popular whore she'll loose a lot of libedo and will become unhappy with each sex act once it hits zero.
On the other hand, girls with jobs where they don't have sex who have high libedo get unhappy if they don't occasionally have sex. Typically you can see a matron or torturer fall into this.
I'm not saying this needs to be included or not, but if you make the game too simple people will loose interst after a few play thoughs.
One thing I've been thinking about is Super Girls. No not a girl in a cape, a woman who has perfect stats. Honestly, they shouldn't exist. Yet, through items and the over generosity of the people who make girl packages they are far too common. I think one solution would be to cap how many points are alocated to a girl. Lets just say max points is going to be 80 total, with the average person only having about 40 points to start. This way you can have some kind of item or training that improves specific stats but once a girl caps out she needs to loose a point from one stat to gain points in another.
Skills are different than stats. You shouldn't be limited on improving a skill by a stat, but rather the stat should determine both your base and how quickly you can learn that skill. So instead of wisdom being the stat that controlls how fast you can learn how to fight, it should be the base stats involved in the fighting skill (str and dex). I'd also recommend a "use to improve" system for skills. Each time you use the skill (or train in it) you either gain expereince with that skill or a chance of a skill up. Both systems have their merits and detractors. I'd suggest a weighted system where low skills improve quickly, and high skills improve slowly. That is easy to control through an experience system but can be rather tedius. For a system that gives a chance to skill up with each use I'd recommend a base of [(stat1+stat2/2)+10%]-skill (if skills are 1-20). That should make it relatively easy to start, but get much harder as you gain skill. It also reinforces that you need high stats to get high skills. Items and tutors could add to the base chance to skill up. An xp system might be more fair. Something like you gain xp based off of the degree of success plus a bonus for high stats.
Hope this gives you some food for thought.
 

Offline graodeareia

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 60
Re: Whore Master II
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2012, 10:58:45 AM »
@crazy You are kinda right to wait for more posts. In my mind there is much more information than what is posted so far. But since the post was getting huge I decided to get the out there and than make more posts later. So if you post a sugestion I might have already have thoughts about the subject. On the other hand, I would apreciate some questions as that would be a starting point for a new post. So feel free to ask away. Reguarding libido, its not about coding. I can easily get it in there, all it takes is a couple hours. I just don't see the value added as of yet. If can elaborate on good reasons to put in there great. But having a skill just to add or remove a little happiness is not a good enough reason in my opnion. As I said earlier, every attribute must be important in order for it to make the cut. For instance. I this game a trait similar to "mind fucked" or "retarded" would give a penalty to wisdom, therefore affecting charisma, dicipline, spell casting and so on. What this means is that players have to be careful when breaking the girls so as not to make her useless or at least less usefull. So breaking the girls in this game should be quite chalenging. I think that will make it more fun becouse its enough to get your S Class girl. You will also have the challenge of breaking her. As for the scripting language I'm actually using javascript instead of lua. I will get into that in a post on the dev thread.

@Ctwo Don't worry about the game being too simple. Once all the other features are added the game will become pretty complex. It seams kinda inevitable since there will be skills/jobs, itens, dugeon, management and much more. But we will get to that in the future. As regarding experience I will talk a little about that in this post since it seams relevant to the skill system.

In this post I will talk a little about the experience system, how this relates to the attributes, and about some of the information about girl that will be in the girl packs. First lets talk about girl classes. Each girl will have a class. You won't put the base attributes directly in the file. What you will put is her class and her type. The system will randomly generate the base attributes based on the girls class and type. Now some of you if not all, will already dislike this feature. How come you can't control the stats of the girls in the girl pack? Thats just aweful. Well let elaborate futher and I hope we can come to an agreement on this.

Class

The girl class is very simple. It simply defines how many attribute points the girl will have initially. Classes vary from A to F, and there is also a special class called S. Here is the break down:

F - 25 attribute points (average (avg) girl will have 5 in each base attribute (attr))
E - 35 (avg 7 per attr)
D - 45 (avg 9 per attr)
C - 55 (avg 11 per attr)
B - 65 (avg 13 per attr)
A - 75 (avg 15 per attr)
S - 85 (avg 17 per attr)

Why classes are important? To put it bluntly, it will make the game more fun. And why is that? You may ask. First there is the matter of progression. The further you get the better girls you get. At the slave market you will only find girls of class F and E. Girls sold to you by there fathers or that you find while exploring the city will also come with class F and E. That means that at the start of the game all your gilrs will be crap. Its like any RPG out there. You start of at level 1 with crapy equipment and as you progress through the game you get better skill and better items. So how can I get access to better girls? There are two ways.

Special events

When you explore the town, depending on your game progress, a special event may occur. When that happens some choices will be made by you and if you succed you will get the girl. Its similar to how you get Chun Lee in the vanilla WM. There will have to be some way to measure your progress and the futher you go the better the special events will be. This alone should give some replayability to the game, becouse if you make the wrong choices in you first try at an special event, you won't get the girl and the event will never happen again. You can then make the right choices on your next play through so that this time you get the girl. You can also cheat of course. Someone will post a walkthough at some point and you can just look it up and make the right choices on you first try, but where is the fun in that? You might also get lucky and make the right choices in your first try.

Catacombs

The catacombs will have many levels. When you assigne a girl to explore the catacombs you can choose which level to send the girl to. The game should probabily warn you when you send an unprepared girl too deep, becouse most likely she will die. The first level will have D class girls. That means that you best warrior girl will be one level below the girls in level 1. So your girl will probabily lose the fight if you send he right away. To win the fights you can do two things. Wait for you girl to level up, or equip your girl with some powerfull itens. Of course the store will only have crapy stuff at first. But a well equip E class girl, even with the vanilla items should be able to win fights in the first level of the catacombs. So then you will capture some level D girls that you can equip and level up and send them to level 2 where you will capture some level C girls. Then level 3 for B girls, and level 4 for A girls, and finally the last level where its the only place you can get the S class girls. So that means that S class girls will not be available through Special events.

I think this feature should be very fun. It should give the player a lot of satisfaction when they capture their first S class girl.

Type

Not all the girls will have average stat. So lets look a 2 F class girls.

Girl1: STR = 3, CON = 4, DEX = 6, WIS 7, BEU = 5
Girl2: STR = 7, CON = 5, DEX = 6, WIS 3, BEU = 4

You can quickly see that Girl1 would be a good at casting spells, while Girl2 would good at combat. This is what type is for. In the girl pack you can specify a type, for instance:

Girl1: class F, type mage
Girl2: class F, type warrier

The Girl1 spec would tell the game to generate a girl with 25 attribute points with the majority focused on spell casting related attributes. While the system would throw more points to combat related attributes for Girl2. So they would have skills similar to the ones listed in the examples above. What types are going to be available? Well that is yet to be decided, but surely there would be at least 4 of them. One focused on beauty and wisdom (makes for good whores), one focused on combat, one on spells and a general one that would generate more balanced girls.

Why are types important? First it give the girl package creator more control over the girl that he is making. Second it also adds replayability since the girls would be diferent each type you play the game.

Further Control for package makers

Well some package makers might think that classes and types don't give them enough control over the girls they create. They are right. Thats where traits come in. With positive and negative Traits you can further tune the girl to what you have in mind. For example if you want the girl to be a super warrior you might add some combat traits. You make also decide that this girl should not be a good whore so you add some traits that give penalty to beauty and wisdom. And then you might want this girl to be hard to tame so you add some traits that make her disobedient.

Now I will talk a little bit about how leveling up works.

A girl will level up when she reachs a pre-defined amount of experience. A girl always starts a level zero. Max level is 5. For every level up the girl gets 2 base attribute points. This points are assined automaticaly based on what skill/job she is assigned to. Each skill/job will be associated to one or more base attributes. Every week that a girl performs a task she will get some experience for that, and that experience will be directed towards whatever base attributes are associated with a given task. So for example, if you have a girl doing combat related tasks such as exploring the dungeon or covering security, then when this girl levels up she will get better at STR, DEX and CON.
Since there are 5 levels for each girl, and she gets 2 points per level at most she can get 10 points at most. So a Level 5 S class girl would have 95 attribute points, making her close to perfect. A level 5 class F girl would have 35 attribute points so she would effectily now be a class E girl. The only attribute that never goes up with level is BEU. The only way to raise that attribute is by gaining Traits. Traits will be gained randomly according to various conditions such as age, jobs/skill experience and so on. But for now lets not talk much about Traits. I just wanted you to know that they will be there and will be and important part of the gameplay.

I hope that you get the idea. And I also hope for some sugestions and constructive criticism.

Note: The current demo program available does not include Classes and Types for now you can directly change the base attribute value and see what the resulting attributes will be. Its also possible to edit a script file and change the calculation of all secondary attributes. I will get into how you do that later in a post on the Dev thread. If you know your javascript and feel adventerous take a look at the "./script/attributes.js" file. Note that you need to restart the program for the changes to take effect.

Offline graodeareia

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 60
Re: Whore Master II
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2012, 11:16:18 AM »
Forgot to mention one more feature of the leveling up system.
One of the great things about hentai games is to unlock the cg. Inicially only one the portraity picture will be available, nothing else. As the girls has a type of sex a single picture related to the type of sex will be unlocked. When the girl levels up, one more picture will be made available to the portrait as well as one more for each type of sex she had.

But you might be wondering about the picture limit. Since the girl start at level 0 (one picture) and can get up to 5 (five more pictures) that means that packs would only be able to contain 6 pictures for each category. Well there won't be that limit. If there are less pictures available in the package (less than 6 per category) than thats means all the pictures will be unlocked earlier. Now if there are more than 6 pictures for a given category than each level will unlock more than one picture.

For example lets say a girl has 3 pictures for oral sex. one will be unlocked at level zero. Another at level 1 and the final picture will be unlocked at level 2. Now lets look at another exemple for a girl with 10 normal sex pictures. 2 at level 0, 2 at level 1, 2 at level 2, 2 at level 3, 1 at level 4 and the final at level 5.  So what that means is when you have sex with the girl or look at a whore job report you will see a random picture out of whatever is unlocked. Same goes to the girls gallery, only unlocked pictures will be available.

This gives the game another goal asside from the main ones. For those that might be impacient I might put and "unlock all" tag in the config file so that all pictures are available from start.

Offline jozsi1

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: Whore Master II
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2012, 12:56:45 PM »

Hi! :)


Some of my thoughts about WM II...


Statistics:



First of all, avoid the mistake of WMEx. On a D20 system, the avarage score is about 10, so the lowest girls class should has enough points for all basic stat score of 10. If not, those girls are under avarage, and will just disappoint the players. The lucky ones will just no use those girls, the not lucky ones will abandon your game. But if all girls has points for avarage basic scores, all girls will be well useable, and you can avoid the problem of all hacking your game for make their own balance.


Second, basic stats should be hardly improveable, even with items to avoid to make an "item hunting" game. Nowadays, most of games are just about item hunting, and maybe not only I am bored to that.


Third, you have to keep in your mind what will be in the focus in the game. If not the fight, then you dont need a lot of stats about it, and you dont need sophisticated battle system. In that case, the basic stats could be the following:


Stamina: STR and CON
Mental: Wisdom, Magic, Discipline
Beauty: the girls natural beauty
Nymphomania: girls "normal" sex drive


There can be some secondary stats (status showing stats):


Health: health/injury level status, recovery speed by stamina
Mana: magic fullness/depleption status, recovery speed by mental
Libido: actual sex drive status, recovery speed by nymphomania
Tiredness: working ability status, recovery speed by stamina and mental
Happiness: enjoyment status, recovery speed by mental and some other effect...
Love: pc-girl relationship


I will continue later... :) And sorry for my english. :)


Offline graodeareia

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 60
Re: Whore Master II
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2012, 03:23:57 PM »
@ jozsi1 I've read your concerns and I agree with some of them. I've decided to make some revisions to the secondary attributes and I will post them here after this response. Regarding the low stat girls I don't quite agree with you. Below average girls do appeal to some customers.

I've seen player complaning in the WMEx threads with comments like "well this kinda of girls would only apeal to truck drivers". My response to that is: do you have anything against truck drivers? If the answer is yes then I would have to say that you are a spoiled little brat and you get out from under your mothers skirt and go see the world. Low paying jobs are what allow you to have the conforts you have at your house. Those people go to bars have their drinks and sometimes get a blowjob from an ugly whore. They are not only allowed to have fun, they will no matter what you think about them. Thats the way things are. But we are not here to discuss moral concerns. Lets go back to game design.

Another thing I dislike is how many people think that "more is better". Would you prefer to deal 100 damage to an opponent that has a 1000 life or deal 1 damage to an opponent that has 10 life? While many people would prefer the 100 damage options, either choice yield the exact same result. Both take 10% of the oponents life. My point is that its an ilusion to think that higher stats will make the game easier or better. When the game is balanced, no matter how high or how low your inicial girls are, the game will have the difilcult level that its designed to have. Those that mod those stats for the better will simply make the game easier, those that mod it for worst will make the game harder. Those that play the unmoded version will have a balanced experienced that the game designers intended. Now if the game is actually unbalanced then thats a whole diferent problem. For now since we don't even have a game, I did say you could at least give us the benefit of doubt in regards to balance and dificulty. I will concede to one thing though. The F class girls are now oficially removed. So the worst girls you will get are girls with average attributes of 7, instead of 5. Thats still bellow average but the truck drivers still want their blowjobs.

I would not like to talk about this design point at the moment but I will give a brief introduction to the Customers System in WM II. I think that shining a little light on that might help would be player to undestand more about my goals for this game.

The customers in WM II are divided into classes just like the girls. Class C custormers are of the lowest class. They have the least money of all your potencial customers. Therefore the services they buy must all be cheap. Now that the lowest girl class has been removed this customers will look for services from girls of classes E and D. This girls will charge low for their services, therefore your income at the start, since it comes only from this girls, will be very low. Thats only natural. You cant expect to open a crappy brothel with crapy girls then have Bill Gates knocking at your door.
Anyways, as your brothel gains fame and as you get better girls some of your services will apeal to B class customers. Class B customers will want girls of the classes C and B. You can still maintain the low class infrastructure since you will still have C class customers. In fact, the higher the Class customers you get, the less customers you will have of that Class. Since you charge more you can still make more money than the previous Class, that is, you will sell less, but have a higher profit. So those that are worried about low class girls in the long run, don't worry. There will always be the low class customers paying your low class girls. But, if you want, you can always get rid of the low class girls once you have enough high class ones. Doing that will only deny you of the lower class income. Another player might for instance decide to have a brothel to serve each class of customers. Hey its your game, how you manage your customers and your brothels is up to you. But one thing is for sure. All players (expect cheaters) must start low.
Than comes the class A customers. They will expect the best possible service. They the elite and expect to be treated as such. They will only take services from girls of the class A and S. They will be in low numbers but they will pay amounts to get what they want.
At last there is the S class customer. This are either very rich or very famous or both. They will only be attended by S class girls or level 5 A class girls. They will only come once in a while, in special random events, and if they have a satisfatory service you will gain something good from it.
Thats it for customer for now.

But there is still one concern that need addressing. jozsi1 Pointed out how the attribute system is too combat oriented and how that isn't suposed to be the focus of the game. After some thought I decided to make the first revision to the secondary attributes system. I don't see any reason to mess with things more I will now. If you guys can come up with them I be glad to make another revision.

Attributes Revison 1
The 5 base attributes remain unchanged.
Stamina and Mana will both join into one attribute. This is will be:
Energy - base CON, WIS - think of this as both physical and metal tiredness. Spell, Combat and any job will drain this Attribute. When it gets to zero, the girl is exasted and any futher action will result in loss of health. Rest or potions are required for recovery.
The second change is to Combat Resistance and Spell Resistance. Both will be joined into one. The new Attribute is:
Armor - base CON - reduces the amount of damage taken by this amount.
The third change is Combat Damage and Spell Damage are joined into one. The new Attribute is:
Damage - base WIS, STR - amount of damage to a succeciful attack or spell.
All other Attributes will remain unchanged for now. I will work on updating the Attribute demo for this changes.

Offline jozsi1

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: Whore Master II
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2012, 04:29:09 PM »
Hi again! :)


Now, some words about skills:


As about the stats, as skills should be designt to the focus of the game. So if the game isnt focusing combat, then no need a lot of combat skills.


Skills can be divided two group: "work" and combat skills.


Work skills can be the same of WM (sex, strip, service, oral, etc...)
Sevice skill can be based on Beauty and Mental stat (on their balance)
Strip skill can be based on beauty (and can help to raise the libido)
Sexual skills can be based on nymphomania and beauty and some of them on mental aswell (on their balance).


Combat skill can be the the same of WM aswell (combat, magic) if you dont want to give too much part of combat. If you want bigger part, you should give at least one more skill, the Domination. It can has the following effect: the combatant, who has higher domination (or win the domination  test) get extra bonus to its combat/magic skill.


Combat skill can be based on Stamina, or 2xStamina plus 1x Mental divided by 3.
Magic skill can be based on Mental
Domination can be based on 2xMental and 1xStamina divided by 3.


Skills can be based on basic stats, but I think better, if stat has effect on skills raise. For example till the half of the stat score skills can be raised at half cost. Between half and full stat, skill can be raise at normal cost. Over stat but lower than 2x stat it can be raised 2x cost. Over 2x stat score, the skill improvement cost is 4x of the normal one. Ofc, my advise based on 20 lvl skill system.

graodeareia

I havent any problem about truck drivers, except if I can I would like to avoid that job (its better for all on the roads :) ). About the stat: An usual girl in the real world has a 10 of 20 beauty (well, we usually use a 10 lvl range system, but we say 5 points to an avarage girl). You can say, an usual whore is less beautyfull than an avarage girl, but first, are you sure?! I dont know, in my real life I dont visiting them, but at the roads I usually see girls who are at least has usual looks. At 2nd, its a game. Why should a girl, who works as a whore in a game looks bad?! If you want give difficulties on the game, there are a lot of possibilities to do that, not only at stats. So, by my opinion, let the girls look good (give us some fantasy), and lets have difficulties for example at skills.


On the scores. I agree with you, I dont like when my character in a game has 7652 hit points, but normal opponents hit about 2-3000 damages/hit. It has no sense.


Customer system. I think, even truck drivers like the good looking girls better than a bad looking ones. If they not found good looking one, they use the bad one, but I am not sure, the bad looking one hasnt same number of customer as good looking one. The reason, most of truck drivers are men, so they need some "visual advertisment". But a low class customer will get only an unskilled whore, while a high class customer get not only a well looking, but charming and skilled one. A low class customer can only release, a high class one can feel himself to a charmer.


I know, nowadays its the most usual at games to start at very low. But why? Ofc, a game shouldnt start at the top, but why at very low? I guess, high class whores never worked on the streets. A bar, what opens for alcoholic people will never improve to a cafe. The customers are different, and the different type (class) ones dont like to meet with the others.


You should try to start the gamers at about middle but with difficulties. They can have at least ordinary looking, but not highly skilled girls. And they have to make decision: what class of customers they try to reach?


Low class customers dont want too much. A pretty face, not bad body, but they accept totally unskilled girls aswell. They come without advertisment, but pay only the least, and sometimes they make troubles.


Middle clas customers want more. They need some advertisment, and need more than a pretty face and an accceptable body. They want some skills on the girls side, and clothes what turns them on. Maybe they need some charming, even skill and parfumes. And they want safety. They pay more than low class ones, but pay not so much. The balance can be better than the low class customers, but not a big difference.


High class customers want good looking, skilled girls, who want to do that. The girls should have nice (and, ofc, expansive) clothes, what give some job the men fantasy. The girls should have charming, the customers want to seduce the girls, or the girl seduce them. So the girls need expansive parfumes aswell, and some other stuffs. The safety is paramount. Need advertising, but on a confidental (and, ofc, expansive) way. They pay well, but the costs of the service are high aswell. So the balance even better than middle class customers' one, but still, its not an income what makes rich the player after a summer.


So the game can be difficult without using the old and boring "you start as a noname nothing, and became a rich and powerfull" way. Please try a new one and give us a game whit new challanges. :)


I wish you the best luck. :)
« Last Edit: February 01, 2012, 04:34:41 PM by jozsi1 »

Offline graodeareia

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 60
Re: Whore Master II
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2012, 06:33:35 PM »
@jozsi1 I don't think you understand the class/type system of girls so well. If a girl is class E and has a type whore, that means she would average looks and charm (close to 10) but would have bad combat skills. Now a class E girl with type warrier, will have bellow average looks and charm, but average combat skills. And thats without counting the Traits. Traits could give and E class girls beauty above average. So even if the average skill is bellow 10, with types some of your inicial girls will have good sex oriented stats. What will you do with the other girls? Well you can put them on non-sex related jobs, like security, cleaning, exploring catacombs and so on.
Customers of diferent classes will never go to the same place. Your brothel is divided in 3 sectors. The Bar (Class C custormers), the Brothel (Class B customers) and the Casino (Class A customers). I this version of the game you will start with only the Bar. When you have enough money you Build a Brothel. And finaly you Build the Casino. Each new section is more expansive than the previous one. Everytime you buy a new Brothel you only get a new bar. You then have to build the rest as you get more money. If you have enough High class girls you can take your low level girls of the bar, put high level ones and the bar becomes attractive to higher class custormers since the price becomes too high for low level customers to pay. So this Bar (C), Brothel (B) and casino (A) is only a guideline but you can force it to a higher level if you desirer.
The reason why you start with little and get more as you advance is to give the player a sense of acomplishment. If a player can easily get what he wants than there is no sense in playing the game. Now if the player really earns what he gets than he will feel satifiction for having acomplished his goals. If you, or anyone, can sugest a better way to get a sense of acomplishment than earning your goals than I'd be interested to hear it.

Offline molerat28

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: Whore Master II
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2012, 12:53:26 AM »
Seems like a nice game.

I was thinking maybe the option to go to the catacombs yourself and have a party of girls with you. A little simple dungeon crawling and maybe some events for that. Maybe you could form a party with girls and instead of everyone having turns it's just one attack with the cumulative damage of all the members in the party.
Are you gonna add pregnancy here?

Offline crazy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 733
Re: Whore Master II
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2012, 06:21:44 AM »
Your brothel is divided in 3 sectors. The Bar (Class C custormers), the Brothel (Class B customers) and the Casino (Class A customers). I this version of the game you will start with only the Bar. When you have enough money you Build a Brothel. And finaly you Build the Casino.
WM 1.29 u had to build the bar and casino u didnt have them at the start like u do in 1.30 but they were going towards a custom building type system outlined here http://pinkpetal.org/index.php?topic=215.0 it was just never finished or u would have had to buy the casino and bar in 1.30.  Which I personally thought was an amazing ideal and Im very sad it was never finished.  Would love to see something like this in WM2 and with customer classes it could help u get the better ones in by having a higher class building and if u read the post it should make sense how... at the very least a building upgrade system would be nice.

I'll throw out a few questions while I'm at it if it will help.

1. As a girl pack maker would like to know what all image catageorys u plan to have?
2. In WM they talked about spliting BDSM into submissive and domante think u might do that?
3. Also talked about having sex acts restricted by girl instead of per brothel.
4. How about a job list.  A lot of jobs have been thrown out that would fit WM that never was put into the game.
5. Any plans for non brothel buildings to run?
6. Gang plans?  Politics? those are both things i wanted to be expanded on as they are one of the things that sets this apart from other brothel sim games where u just manage whores.
7. WM really really needed more ways to aquire girls as there are so many made and so few ways to get them.  Like with higher fame have girls come to you looking for work.
8. I hate that all girls are sent to the dungeon when the brothel is full or whatever would love a middle ground for that.
9. No real way to play a nice guy in WM an plans to have a nicer route in this game?
10. Player housing plans?
11. Last one but like I said I could easily post more.  I pitch this to everyone who says there modding or working on a new WM so might aswell do to u.  Have an auction house were u can sell a girls virginity.  In the current WM virginity only cost u more money and gives u like 100 extra gold or something when the girl looses it to a customer.  Seen a new report of girls selling there virginity on ebay lol so always thought that would be worth adding to the game.

Offline crazy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 733
Re: Whore Master II
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2012, 06:25:30 AM »
Also like to say you should take some time and go thru the new features section if u haven't already may help with ideals.  Ill post a few links to ones i find worth a read but im sure there are alot more of them.
http://pinkpetal.org/index.php?topic=457.0
http://pinkpetal.org/index.php?topic=467.0
http://pinkpetal.org/index.php?topic=665.0
http://pinkpetal.org/index.php?topic=909.0
http://pinkpetal.org/index.php?topic=249.0
http://pinkpetal.org/index.php?topic=165.0

Last ill post a link to something i wrote up i had the ideal to have higher customers class by using the player house to throw parties for the rich also my arena ideal.  http://pinkpetal.org/index.php?topic=356.0

Offline CeeBod

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: Whore Master II
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2012, 09:11:50 AM »
I really like the idea of having different classes of girls and customers, but I think that it would also be good to have the availability of these customers dependent on your brothel locations - one disappointment with vanilla WM, was finding that each new brothel is the same as the last one, with just more rooms for your girls, so it'd be nice to improve on that.

What would work nicely with the customer class system would be to have each possible brothel location have specific effects on customer availability - eg: A cheap place by the docks would get a high number of the lowest class of customer, with demand practically unaffected by the reputation and skills of your girls (Whenever a ship comes in to port there's suddenly a whole lot of sailors that have never been to Crossgate before wanting to get drunk and get laid, and they're not fussy as long as the whore's female and cheap!) but with a high probability of petty crime, and regular trouble.  On the other hand a discrete bordello at the posh end of town will cost a fortune, probably require high bribes to make important people turn a blind eye, will have zero trouble, but will get no customers except the higher class ones, the number of will be very dependent on your reputation, and can easily be lost to rival places if they don't have a good experience (so opening a high class establishment before you're really ready to will actually hurt your business).  Giving each brothel it's own identity allows both for progression and for specialisation - even once you've got some high class girls and can afford to buy the best premises, you can still use the cheaper places like the docks as training grounds for unskilled girls - with the high turnover of customers you know you can skill a girl up there much quicker than in a high-class establishment where she'll see few customers and risk losing you reputation by not meeting the customer's expectations, but it may mean risking your best girl getting attacked, and she'll earn a lot less than she could in the high-end place.... trade-offs like that are what make any kind of management game tick! ;o)

Offline graodeareia

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 60
Re: Whore Master II
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2012, 12:43:19 PM »
molerat28 :I thought having the player go to the dungeon himself. As much I'd like something like that it would add a lot problems to the game. For instance in this game people can really die in combat. So that means the player could die in the catacombs. I could for the sake of gameplay, make him imortal. But then there are other concerns such as: if the player is wounded would he be able to go around doind whatever he is does with no changes or would his options be limited by his injuries? How powerful would the play be? If he was too weak then there no sense in going hunting in the catacombs, but if he was too powerful then outside of the dungeons he could just do whatever he wanted with the girls and none could escape him since he would always win the fights with them. There are many other concerns like game focus, are you an admistrator running a bussines or are you an adventurer? If you are an adventurer who is running your bussiness out you are out on your hunting trips. Finally there the concern of what that really adds to the game experience. If the dungeon crawling it self is fun, then just make a dungean drawling game. If the sim part is fun, than just make a sim game. To make both fun would be a very large task and would need many more programmers. Once the game is up and running adding such features would be more feasible. For now lets stick to the sim part.

crazy :First I'd like to say that most questions here don't have an answer yet becouse the skill/job system has yet to be designed. I'll try to explain why bellow:

1 - sex categories is very is directly linked to skills. Once we decide what sex skills will be available we will automaticaly have the sex pictures categories. I think we should delay this discussion for when the time comes to design the skill system.
2 -  see 1
3 - I don't understand the question
4 - After we have a skill system we can decide what jobs are rellated to what skill. Any job requires skill in a certain area. Therefore skills/jobs are dependent on each other. Every skill has one or more relate attribute. Performing a job gives you experience in the associated skill and that give you experience in the associated attributes (so the game knows where to asign attribute points when the girl levels up). The skill system will have its own levels and will level up independently of the girls level. So again lets leave this to skill/jobs design discussions.
5 - For now I like the idea of a player house. Also upgrades to current building would be an interesting feature. For instance you bar could start without a place for strip. Than you add a stage and that unlocks the striptease job. O you add a private room and that unlocks lap dances. Diferent buildings depend on the job categories. The more buildings/upgrades you have the more jobs are unlocked. So when we have a skill/jobs system we can decide which will be available by default and which will need a building or upgrade to unlock. For instace you could have to build a torture chamber to unlock the toturer job. Or you could build an infirmary to unlock the nurse job. Send girls to infirmary to heal faster. Building discussion is therefore delayed to skill/job discussion.
6 - In this game the city will be divided in sector or counties. Gangs will be used to control your current sector as well as attack other sectors. For your bussiness to be left alone by the authorities in each sector you will have to bribe someone important in the sector, for instance a sheriff or a local comunity leader. You can only build a new brothel in a sector you control so gangs will be a very important part of the game. Also new places may be unlocked once you gain control of a sector. For instance if you gain control of the port sector you might be able to buy slaves that are shiped from other continents by the sailers. So you gain access to a new and better slave market than the default one. That mean you can now purchase higher class girls of the new slave market.
7 - Yeah, this is related to 6. You for instance controla sector that has a highschool. You can than start selling drugs in that sector. Some girls will not be able to pay her debts and so you take them to your brothels. Somthing like that. We can discuss this when we design what sectors will be available and what will be unlocked when you control each sector.
8 - Humn. I actually like that feature. If the girls go to brothel they might refuse to work. I f they go to the dungeon you can break them before sending them to a brothel. If the girl goes to the brothel refuses to work and you try to send them to the dungeon from the brothel they can refuse and fight.  I'll have to think about that.
9 - Yes! Thats a crucial point. It relates to an undesigned attribute related point. So its the right time to talk about this. It all about how you can get obedience from girls. Thats what I can't figure out so far. If we design a feeling/obedience system that allows for a nicer route to gain obedience than the problem is solved. I need help on this point since I still don't have an answer. As for the gangs, I would like to have better ways of handling sector that you already control. For instace you could have no crime in a controled territory. That would attract higher class customers to that sector. And would also improve your reputation.
10 - see 5
11 - Virginity will be auctioned if the player wishes. Depending on your customer class at the brothel that you make the auction and the girls class the price will be higher. But there is a problem related to obedience here. What if the girl refuses to sleep with the customer afte she is sold? see 9
I took a quick glance at the posts. I'll need more time to read them later.

CeeBod :I like that. I already had thought of dividing the city into sectors. I can add customer statiscs to each sector. That can be a guide to what the player can provide in that sector. See crazy answer 6 for a brief description of sectors. See answer 9 for a hint of how player can influence sectors to change the customer classes available.

Offline crazy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 733
Re: Whore Master II
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2012, 08:53:10 PM »
Thats why I said I would wait for more info figured a few of my questions didnt have an answer yet lol.

3 - I don't understand the question
Okay i mean that in the current WM if u click no BDSM for the brothel then all girls cant have BDSM.  I would rather see it by girl so I can have like one girl doing only BDSM and another doing only group then another maybe doing 3 of the acts make each girl able to do what u want them to.  So they specialze in the acts instead of doing everything.  Hopefully u understand it this time if not ill try again to explain it lol.

6 - In this game the city will be divided in sector or counties. Gangs will be used to control your current sector as well as attack other sectors. For your bussiness to be left alone by the authorities in each sector you will have to bribe someone important in the sector, for instance a sheriff or a local comunity leader. You can only build a new brothel in a sector you control so gangs will be a very important part of the game. Also new places may be unlocked once you gain control of a sector. For instance if you gain control of the port sector you might be able to buy slaves that are shiped from other continents by the sailers. So you gain access to a new and better slave market than the default one. That mean you can now purchase higher class girls of the new slave market.
One of the links I gave has a post were they planed something just like that for WM so check it out might help u with that ideal.

 
7 - Yeah, this is related to 6. You for instance controla sector that has a highschool. You can than start selling drugs in that sector. Some girls will not be able to pay her debts and so you take them to your brothels. Somthing like that. We can discuss this when we design what sectors will be available and what will be unlocked when you control each sector.
That would be a nice ideal have new sectors give new ways to get girls.  And giving the drug part of the game a use is something that needs to be done if its going stay in the game.

8 - Humn. I actually like that feature. If the girls go to brothel they might refuse to work. I f they go to the dungeon you can break them before sending them to a brothel. If the girl goes to the brothel refuses to work and you try to send them to the dungeon from the brothel they can refuse and fight.  I'll have to think about that.
Well for a nice guy game having them sent to the dungeon dont make sense thats why i said like a middle ground not the actually brothel but not the dungeon like maybe a shelter or something.  Then u go there and choose were to send the girls either the dungeon or to one of brothels/whatever.  Guess u could have it something the nice guy builds.

9 - Yes! Thats a crucial point. It relates to an undesigned attribute related point. So its the right time to talk about this. It all about how you can get obedience from girls. Thats what I can't figure out so far. If we design a feeling/obedience system that allows for a nicer route to gain obedience than the problem is solved. I need help on this point since I still don't have an answer. As for the gangs, I would like to have better ways of handling sector that you already control. For instace you could have no crime in a controled territory. That would attract higher class customers to that sector. And would also improve your reputation.
Nicer route is a hard one to come up with for sure.  But i always thought the girls that u found walking shouldnt refuse to work any non sex releted job.. it dont make sense to me they want to work but they deicide that no im not going be a waitress?  So to me make the non sex releted jobs not be able to be refused.  Then the nice guy to get a girl to whore would have to buy her gifts, sweet talk her, make her fall in love with him, show her how much more money she would make just whatever it took to make them think it would be a good ideal.

11 - Virginity will be auctioned if the player wishes. Depending on your customer class at the brothel that you make the auction and the girls class the price will be higher. But there is a problem related to obedience here. What if the girl refuses to sleep with the customer afte she is sold? see 9
I took a quick glance at the posts. I'll need more time to read them later.
I guess they could refuse if there not a slave.  If they refuse maybe a hurt to the building rep and a refund of the money idk something to think on.  And yea look over them when u get a chance some of the things u said have been talked about before and maybe reading over the posts will help u come up with the way u want it to go.