Sexual Orientation

[MMeer]

Sexual Orientation Discussion Thread

A while ago, in a different thread (http://www.pinkpetal.org/index.php?topic=3577.msg33847#msg33847) I briefly expounded a proposal to eliminate sexual-orientation-based traits. The primary reason for this being that it is possible with the trait-based system to not have a sexual orientation. That is not how it works. Everyone has a sexual orientation, without exception. The argument was raised that a girl without an SO Trait would be counted as straight, but I don't believe that is so. If she does not have the 'Straight' trait, then she isn't straight. Would not having an SO Trait represent Asexual then? There was also the suggestion that girls without an SO Trait specified in their .girlsx file would be automatically assigned 'Straight' by default, but I believe that I have come up with a better solution.

The solution is to have SO Traits removed from the game, and have SO instead represented by a slider based on a modified version of the Kinsey Scale, a model used to rate homosexuality vs. heterosexuality (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_scale for more information). SO would be represented on the girl's information screen, somewhere under the name, and it would displayed thusly:

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example
Orientation: 4 (Bisexual)

example
Orientation: 7: (Straight)

The scale would run from 0 (representing Asexual) to 7 (representing completely straight) Like so:
          0: Asexual
          1 - 2: Lesbian
          3 - 5: Bisexual
          6 - 7: Straight
          Asexual
0: Asexual. This girl is not willing to have sex at all. Not with anyone. Could also be used with constructs or other beings who are physically incapable of sex.

          Lesbian
1: Complete Lesbian. This girl will never have sex or fall in love with a man, limiting her use as a whore.
2: Lesbian: This girl will never enjoy sex with a man and is far more likely to turn one down, but is willing to have sex with a man for her job only. Cannot fall in love with a man.

          Bisexual
3: Bisexual with a preference for Women: Gets more enjoyment from lesbian sex, but is willing to have sex with and can fall in love with anyone.
4: Bisexual with no Preference: Will have sex with and fall in love with men and women equally.
5: Bisexual with a preference for Men: Gets more enjoyment from sex with men, but is willing to have sex with and can fall in love with anyone.

          Straight
6: Straight: This girl will never enjoy sex with a woman and is far more likely to turn one down, but is willing to have sex with one for her job only. Cannot fall in love with a woman.
7: Completely Straight. This girl will never have sex or fall in love with a woman.

Thus a numeric value would be used to determine whether a girl would have sex with someone, or whether she would be able to fall in love with the player. Of particular notice to me: Sometimes with the lesbian sex act in the brothel, a girl's customer will be another girl of yours. As far as I can tell, the name of the customer is just selected from a list of names of all the girls working for you. With this scale however, the only names available for random selection would be those with a SO value from 1 to 4.

Questions? Comments? Suggestions?

[Sorren]

Personally I'm in agreement, only the more exotic preferences should be traits. So for instance Demisexual and Polyamorous.

[Hanzo]

Looks good to me.

[0nymous]

The orientation system applies to inter-human sex only. Keep in mind we have bestiality in the game. Should this factor in in any way within the sexuality system?
Perhaps a pansexual option is needed? The "eagerly-fucks-everything-and-everyone" orientation. Although again, according to "scientific" studies it applies to human genders only.
Don't know if there even is a name for bestiality-sexuality.

Asexual. This girl is not willing to have sex at all. Not with anyone.

"Not willing" or indifferent? Asexuality is a lack of sexual attraction to anyone. I thought it more of a neutral thing, rather than a negative one. So, it should have influence on a girl's Libido stat, rather than Happiness.
This could mire us in a deep social-studies/psychological debate...

Could also be used with constructs or other beings who are physically incapable of sex. 

Considering most in-game constructs/robots/androids would basically be sexbots, again, I don't think it'd be appropriate to give them negative modifiers when they have sex.
I also don't know why the heck would there ever be a girl in the game Whoremaster who is "physically incapable of sex"...

[aevojoey]

I have always considered no SO trait as undecided, if she has little experience with either, she does not know what she is yet.

Adding a scale for SO could be done but as -100to100 like other stats are, -100 is absolute Lesbian, 100 is absolute straight.
Or perhaps separate -100to100 for male and female love like the Sims 3 has, negative is hate for while positive is love for.
Perhaps a third scale for Beast?
The Lesbian and Normal Sex skills could be used to have her decide her SO.

With separate male/female scales, both being positive would be bisexual, both being negative would be asexual.
If she is raped, then the scale would go down (or up if she is a masochist).
The more skill she has in either Lesbian or Normal Sex would make that scale go up faster using the existing enjoyment of sex code.

[Hanzo]

Adding a scale for SO could be done but as -100to100 like other stats are, -100 is absolute Lesbian, 100 is absolute straight.
Or perhaps separate -100to100 for male and female love like the Sims 3 has, negative is hate for while positive is love for.
Perhaps a third scale for Beast?
The Lesbian and Normal Sex skills could be used to have her decide her SO.

With separate male/female scales, both being positive would be bisexual, both being negative would be asexual.
If she is raped, then the scale would go down (or up if she is a masochist).
The more skill she has in either Lesbian or Normal Sex would make that scale go up faster using the existing enjoyment of sex code.

Two scales would cover asexuality so that would be better.
I don't see any problem in adding extra dots by using a -100 to 100 scale. An approximate correlation with the OP would be (for male love):

-100 to -33: Won't have sex with or love a man.
-33 to 33: Would have sex with a man if required, cannot fall in love with a man.
33 to 100: Enjoys heterosexual sex, can fall in love with a man.

The same for female love. The combination of both covers all scenarios.

Is it going to be like now (no amount of consensual heterosexual sex would turn a lesbian into a hetero or viceversa, which would leave magic (in multiple ways), torture and rape as ways to alter it) or more flexible?
Keep in mind that there's nothing wrong in girls starting with 100 in them nor would make them overpowered.

[MMeer]

Is it going to be like now (no amount of consensual heterosexual sex would turn a lesbian into a hetero or viceversa, which would leave magic (in multiple ways), torture and rape as ways to alter it) or more flexible?
Keep in mind that there's nothing wrong in girls starting with 100 in them nor would make them overpowered.

As far as real-life connection is concerned: while it is possible for a person's sexual orientation to change over time, it's not really something that can be changed "for them" (short of brainwashing). You have to be somewhat open to, or at least not completely adverse to, other sexualities to start shifting toward them. That being said...

As far as gameplay is concerned: I would think that if a girl has between, say, -100 to -80 in a particular gender-preference, then it can't increase (again, short of brainwashing). From between -79 and -40 can be increased, but only through patient guidance. Higher than that would increase at normal rates.


As for the on-screen display using a 2-slider method, I propose something like this:

Code: [Select]

example
Orientation: Lesbian (-60/90) <-- where the first value represents the "male preference" scale and the second the "female preference" scale.

-or-

example
Orientation: Bisexual (30f/40m) <-- where the gender in question is clearly labelled (and in this example, reversed from the above example).

Either order would work, but it would have to be decided which order to use.

[Geron]

Seeing as how you are still brothel master.  There is no 'won't shag with X' unless they want a trip to the playground.


Not opposed to hate/rebellion as a result though.

[GonDra]

I think this needlessly complicates matters. The game is still mainly about running a brothel. Having characters in game that don't wanna sleep with half the clients even though they work in a brothel is not adding anything to the game in my opinion and probably not fun.

[Destont]

I am personally for anything that gives girls/characters more personality. To the post above me, remember that if this system were to be implemented we would be able to alter it through the use of items and/or actions.

One thing though guys, wouldn't obedience override a characters sexual preference at some point? Because it seems odd to me that a girl with max obedience would refuse to do something even if it went against her sexual preference, then there are the traits that would make a girls preferences meaningless such as mind fucked.

[MMeer]

One thing though guys, wouldn't obedience override a characters sexual preference at some point? Because it seems odd to me that a girl with max obedience would refuse to do something even if it went against her sexual preference, then there are the traits that would make a girls preferences meaningless such as mind fucked.

You do have a very good point here. 'Mind Fucked', 'Broken Will', and Max Obedience would probably be able to override sexual preference. But in the case of, for example, a lesbian agreeing to sex a man on the player's orders, she wouldn't enjoy it - but would do it.

[BlackWolf Inc.]

I agree, as the one in charge you can make these girls do just about anything you want to, but you can't make them enjoy it

[Sorren]

You do have a very good point here. 'Mind Fucked', 'Broken Will', and Max Obedience would probably be able to override sexual preference. But in the case of, for example, a lesbian agreeing to sex a man on the player's orders, she wouldn't enjoy it - but would do it.

Then you have the oddballs who enjoy with all partners but are naturally attracted to one gender.

[MMeer]

Then you have the oddballs who enjoy with all partners but are naturally attracted to one gender.

Exactly, for example a 30f/100m (where her "preference" for women is 30, and for men is 100). She'll enjoy sex with anyone, but will go for the male if the option to choose between them is presented.