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Offline CherryWood

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Re: PyTFall Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #120 on: January 23, 2013, 06:41:28 AM »
Suggestion time!

Number of girls:

I think we need to avoid both extremes
– with very small number (like up to 10) it will tend to have too much micromanagement and generally plays more like rpg, and that general feeling is more like a harem then being a boos that runs his brothel establishment
– with very large number (100+) , game will need too much simplification to avoid being overwhelming for player to manage, and with reduced importance that single girl will have, impact of any work invested into girls individualities, traits, meeting system or events will be lessened too...
so I suggest game to be balanced somewhere about 40 girls working

I really liked simbro1x system in that matter; there was a weekly plan of actions for every girl that repeated itself, so with a bit of careful planning all that was needed was to set it once, and then the whole building pretty much runs on auto, allowing this “set and forget” playstyle where number of girls never becomes an issue... and gives player time for all those fun things like making movies, looking for new girls, doing missions...

btw. Xela, you don’t plan fetishes, but still want clients to have traits? I’m sorry, but I don’t see a real difference if a customer can have trait “big dick” or if he can have trait “likes blondes”

interaction menu:

I like the idea to be able to just rewrite the lines in interaction menu, thus making the girl unique, as easy variant to setting a fully customized event.
And for that we need lines that are replaceable, something simple like introduction, what are you doing, how are you... what can be banal “I’m fine” in vanilla, can become something more interesting “I’m another step closer to conquer the world!” or “I’m just thinking about testing my new “Starlight Breaker” move on someone, will you stay still for a bit?” when customized – I like that
...but on a second thought, it’s probably easy to customize text on these buttons too, so there’s no need to have them (you know, like Chat>interest to Boast>Show her your mad skillz! option)

But most of the simbro1x options will do (but please no jokes...)
...and it could be nice if we use these new image categories we have planned, like date on beach...

Another idea:

About all of these dating options – because there was already some thoughts about player personal relationship with his whores, maybe it will be a good idea to separate those two – how much she likes you, and how much is she convinced to work as a whore. It will give a more deep and options to interactions. And with that it will be possible not only to play the Romeo, but also the Bad Guy who threaten girls into working for them!
I’m imagining something like convincing (you can get this much money, become famous bla bla...) and threatening (I’m a friend with THESE guys, and you wouldn’t want them to pay you a visit...)
Simplified variant can  be to have only this current “relationship” stat to have a negative numbers to indicate hate and fear, with a Hire option to have some chance on success on this side too.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2013, 06:44:51 AM by CherryWood »

Offline Xela

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Re: PyTFall Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #121 on: January 23, 2013, 07:10:42 AM »
Since you ask about missing parts, you might want to take a look at Popuri's interactions mod. It has some interesting ideas, like nice/not nice dates, punishments and so on.

I was talking about girlsmeets, not interactions.
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: PyTFall Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #122 on: January 23, 2013, 07:21:08 AM »
Jeez, I know. But some parts like differet types of dates can be used in meeting scripts too.

Offline DarkTl

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Re: PyTFall Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #123 on: January 23, 2013, 07:50:34 AM »
About all of these dating options – because there was already some thoughts about player personal relationship with his whores, maybe it will be a good idea to separate those two – how much she likes you, and how much is she convinced to work as a whore.
Thus, even if she doesn't want to be a whore, she still can work for you at some neutral jobs, like waitress.

Offline CherryWood

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Re: PyTFall Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #124 on: January 23, 2013, 08:15:38 AM »
Thus, even if she doesn't want to be a whore, she still can work for you at some neutral jobs, like waitress.

Yes, your right, I totally forgot about these... And I actually used this type of jobs alot...
 
What I wrote doesn't make that much sense now, because girls that want to work for you, but don't have any kind of relationship with you are those appearing in standard "buy me” menu, so there is no need to simulate that kind of situation in interaction menu...
 
sorry :-( overthinking something again...
 

Offline Xela

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Re: PyTFall Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #125 on: January 23, 2013, 08:35:50 AM »
Suggestion time!

Finally :)


Number of girls:

I think we need to avoid both extremes
– with very small number (like up to 10) it will tend to have too much micromanagement and generally plays more like rpg, and that general feeling is more like a harem then being a boos that runs his brothel establishment
– with very large number (100+) , game will need too much simplification to avoid being overwhelming for player to manage, and with reduced importance that single girl will have, impact of any work invested into girls individualities, traits, meeting system or events will be lessened too...
so I suggest game to be balanced somewhere about 40 girls working

I really liked simbro1x system in that matter; there was a weekly plan of actions for every girl that repeated itself, so with a bit of careful planning all that was needed was to set it once, and then the whole building pretty much runs on auto, allowing this “set and forget” playstyle where number of girls never becomes an issue... and gives player time for all those fun things like making movies, looking for new girls, doing missions...

Making movies is a lot more Set&Forget than jobs in SimBro 1x. On the account of girls, allow me to present another option:
(I write this with advanced version of the game in mind)


- Allow any amount of girls
- Allow personal training consisting of:
"Unique conversations" (Setting flags in girls namespace)
"Unique Skills Training" Add set of skills into a class namespace that would be to slow to train in schools or in jobs, but only can be trained through personal supervision.
"Unique events" Having girl do specific action to advance those skills
"A number of hidden stats that can be accessed only through preforming some special action."
- Spend AP for both you and girl while training.

Girls that were trained in such way would have a significant modifier to price (those would almost always or always be slaves).
They would also have significant modifiers to price costumers pay for their cervices and only girls trained in such fashion could achieve maximum rank.

There is a Russian slavemaker alternative called "Valet Pletey" that is currently no longer being developed cause engine for the game was poorly chosen. I want to combine something similar with WM.


As far as player is concerned, girls trained in such fashion are the absolute Elite (of their professions, slaves or not). They educate nobel's youth if training was intellectual (Not as job probably, you simply sell them for a decent price or maybe sign some form of a long term contract if they are free.). Service the best costumers, preform for the most noble of citizens and so on.

btw. Xela, you don’t plan fetishes, but still want clients to have traits? I’m sorry, but I don’t see a real difference if a customer can have trait “big dick” or if he can have trait “likes blondes”

Real difference:

- Girls are simply presented with a costumer trait like 'Huge Dick' and have to deal with it in some fashion.

- Likes blondes would only make sense if we generated costumers first and matched those with existing girls, means extra code and little benefit (in my opinion anyway)





interaction menu:

I like the idea to be able to just rewrite the lines in interaction menu, thus making the girl unique, as easy variant to setting a fully customized event.
And for that we need lines that are replaceable, something simple like introduction, what are you doing, how are you... what can be banal “I’m fine” in vanilla, can become something more interesting “I’m another step closer to conquer the world!” or “I’m just thinking about testing my new “Starlight Breaker” move on someone, will you stay still for a bit?” when customized – I like that
...but on a second thought, it’s probably easy to customize text on these buttons too, so there’s no need to have them (you know, like Chat>interest to Boast>Show her your mad skillz! option)

Modifying text on those buttons would require knowledge of screen language and game itself or me creating code making it easier in some way. There is a number of approaches on how that can be accomplished, it is easier to create a menu as a part of a unique event or interaction that appears after the usual button is clicked, that already can be done with one word: menu: :)


Jokes are out! ;)
Dates are in, other categories used for interactions as well. We can add to/change girlsmeets as we move forward.

As for the relationship between ingame character, it is a very serious topic that needs to be addressed separately or even in separate thread/dropbox file. I am still not entirely sure how that needs to be approached. Tools at our disposal right now are stats, flags, counters, functions, how that all comes together I am not entirely sure yet, especially I have a huge difficulty separating simpler from advanced version as far as this topic is concerned, cause I want it to be an advanced system in WMlike version and have absolutely no idea where to draw the line between that and SimBro one...
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Offline Xela

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Re: PyTFall Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #126 on: January 23, 2013, 09:06:29 AM »

Yes, your right, I totally forgot about these... And I actually used this type of jobs alot...
 
What I wrote doesn't make that much sense now, because girls that want to work for you, but don't have any kind of relationship with you are those appearing in standard "buy me” menu, so there is no need to simulate that kind of situation in interaction menu...
 
sorry :-( overthinking something again...

Thus, even if she doesn't want to be a whore, she still can work for you at some neutral jobs, like waitress.


Well, here we are entering the "I am not sure about how to handle this in SimBro version territory".

For the advanced version, I have nearly all the answers:

Girl has a profession. If that is prostitute and free, she will never refuse a whore job simply cause she dislikes you.

Slaves will have a very simple acceptance attribute set to true/false that will be one of the modifiers to their price. If acceptance is set to true, she will almost always obey.

The logic is that if a girl is a slave or free and agreed to whore for you, she should simply do so, I never understood games logic where girl decided to work for you but refuses all the time because her obedience or whatever is to low.

They will still refuse if:

- Injured
- Exhausted
- Customer is to ugly, has a trait they dislike or Caste/Rank is to far apart (Now THIS will depend on their disposition/fear/character/obedience or whatever we decide to go with!)


In Advanced version, there may be dozens of jobs but in SimBro one, waitress wasn't even planned. Also there will be counters, if you ask a Warrior (Free girl since slaves cannot be warriors under the current concept) to whore for you, she'll tell you to get lost during the Next Day, if you repeat that one more time, she'll tell you to F#ck off and leave you, with a huge hit to disposition.

So right now, while I have a fairly clear idea of how to proceed with WMlike version, SimBro one is still undecided.
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: PyTFall Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #127 on: January 23, 2013, 10:03:50 AM »
So warriors will never agree to whore then, regardless of any circumstances?

Offline Xela

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Re: PyTFall Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #128 on: January 23, 2013, 10:48:50 AM »
So warriors will never agree to whore then, regardless of any circumstances?

In WMlike version you will be able to have them change profession if disposition is high enough. Another option would be to use drugs. I was thinking to have a drug that slowly destroys a girl but confuses into doing whatever the hell. But after 40 - 50 days the best you can do is to sell her really cheap as damage will prolly be irreparable.

But as long as profession is set to Warrior, she will refuse whoring under any normal condition, yes. That is only for free girls, Slaves will also have professions (Warrior excluded) but they will behave differently and accept most jobs. Also max of stats will be modified by the game, warrior will never be able to get to skilled in sex stats and prostitute will never be able to get to skilled in battle stats and so on.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2013, 05:22:24 PM by Xela »
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Offline CherryWood

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Re: PyTFall Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #129 on: January 23, 2013, 11:21:44 AM »

Real difference:

- Girls are simply presented with a costumer trait like 'Huge Dick' and have to deal with it in some fashion.

- Likes blondes would only make sense if we generated costumers first and matched those with existing girls, means extra code and little benefit (in my opinion anyway)
sorry... I was under impression that there will be some sort of matching system / preselection included in that Social Status system you have in mind, like when a Lord will come to visit.

----------
About that girls meeting, will it be using its own game screen with standard pictures, visual novel style or a combination of these? Because if there will be options like "go to pub/beach/restaurant" that will take places somewhere, with its own submenus like "buy her a drink", then that's for sure be enough. (You suggested something like that on page 2, and just background and questgirl can do it fine)
---------
Girl that doesn't whore is a nice concept - there's a lot of interesting characters who simply do not have enough H pictures to work as one, and this is ideal for them. Also good for all these series themed girl packs, because most of the minor characters usually suffers from the same scarcity, but without them it never feels complete. (you can still be intimate with them personaly throught relationship, yes?)
« Last Edit: January 23, 2013, 11:29:04 AM by CherryWood »

Offline Xela

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Re: PyTFall Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #130 on: January 23, 2013, 12:15:25 PM »
sorry... I was under impression that there will be some sort of matching system / preselection included in that Social Status system you have in mind, like when a Lord will come to visit.

Yeah and it is already working but not the way you think. Based on Brothel's reputation, single costumer is created during the act and is awarded with rank, gender and other attributes. But this costumer is not matched vs all girls in the brothel (he doesn't pick the one he likes best) meaning that it would be possible to check his/her stats, traits and so on vs girls but there would be no way to ensure that if there was another blond girl in the brothel available, he went for her and not for redhead or brown. That would also be possible to code, have a pool of costumers being generated and matched vs every girl in brothel, but that seems a bit tedious to do at the moment, especially since there are so many different thing to do.

It is definitely possible to simply check if costumer has a fetish for a girl he ended up with right now, but I don't want to do things half way, if we implement costumer preferences, code should trully check every girl for every costumer for such a fetish. It is not hard to do at all, but I though that would require a bit of extra work and further delay the game. We can simply agree that your way is better than what we have now and code that in later (that path is in no way closed by the one currently implemented!, the only thing that has to be changed is generating costumer before the act and iterate over every girl in brothel he's visiting and finding a way to relay the result of that iteration to act method so it can be added to txt variable).




----------
About that girls meeting, will it be using its own game screen with standard pictures, visual novel style or a combination of these? Because if there will be options like "go to pub/beach/restaurant" that will take places somewhere, with its own submenus like "buy her a drink", then that's for sure be enough. (You suggested something like that on page 2, and just background and questgirl can do it fine)
---------

Those things are not related, everything you said will be possible but there might be some exceptions. I need to see the endresult of girlsmeet screen/label first, the trouble is that it has to be a bit more complex than the one in SimBro 1x because it can be called from many different locations, needs to know what location to return to from the main menu of the screen and know where to return from each separate interaction especially if background is changed during the interaction (As opposed to simple interaction screen that always returns to the same place, making it really easy to code)... I am working on figuring out how to make all of that happen and allow any sort of modding right now.




Girl that doesn't whore is a nice concept - there's a lot of interesting characters who simply do not have enough H pictures to work as one, and this is ideal for them. Also good for all these series themed girl packs, because most of the minor characters usually suffers from the same scarcity, but without them it never feels complete. (you can still be intimate with them personaly throught relationship, yes?)

Sure, that is never an issue.
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Offline CherryWood

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Re: PyTFall Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #131 on: January 23, 2013, 01:05:52 PM »
Thanks a lot for your explanation! I get it now... and agree that there are better things to do now.


Anyway, you will be free from my questions for a while, because I'll be at a place without Internet until monday.  But I take renpy with me to get a better grip of it and try to make some of the scenes I talked about. Hope I understand you better then


--------------edit----------------
I reuploaded Hinata and Sakura pictures again, they should have these new dating categories now +Tenten
« Last Edit: January 23, 2013, 05:47:47 PM by CherryWood »

Offline Xela

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Re: PyTFall Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #132 on: January 23, 2013, 01:16:17 PM »
Thanks a lot for your explanation! I get it now... and agree that there are better things to do now.


Anyway, you will be free from my questions for a while, because I'll be at a place without Internet until monday.  But I take renpy with me to get a better grip of it and try to make some of the scenes I talked about. Hope I understand you better then


Goodluck, I once went to a place without a net and not much to do as well, so I ripped the entire RenPy documentation from their site and went through it, although I didn't understand any of it back then, still proved to be a good exercise. I will write an advanced interaction using as many tricks as possible and then try to organize everything I wrote in this thread on modding into one thread and/or file.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2013, 05:24:31 PM by Xela »
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Offline Xela

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Re: PyTFall Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #133 on: January 23, 2013, 04:06:39 PM »
Post 666  :P

PHEW  8)

PyTFall version has been upped from 0.12 to 0.2 in Dropbox dev folder. Codework for girlsmeets is officially finished! Now content remains but that's work for our writers, or most of it can be copy/pasted from SimBro 1x! Only hiring works.

I need to write an advanced interaction for night, prolly will start tonight and finish tomorrow. Then either modding guide or Traits + advanced logic (0.2 - 0.3)
« Last Edit: January 23, 2013, 04:09:56 PM by Xela »
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: PyTFall Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #134 on: January 23, 2013, 04:20:05 PM »
Also max of stats will be modified by the game, warrior will never be able to get to skilled in sex stats and prostitute will never be able to get to skilled in battle stats and so on.
I see. So this "occupation" thing is basically like character class in some rpg. I guess available traits will be different too.

Girl that doesn't whore is a nice concept - there's a lot of interesting characters who simply do not have enough H pictures to work as one, and this is ideal for them.
Then you'll need some kind of flag to forbid change of profession for such characters into prostitute.