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Offline DarkTl

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Re: SimBrothel: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #270 on: February 15, 2013, 05:17:39 PM »
1) Do we need categories for Service Jobs (Bar-Tender, Club Waitress, Cleaner.
I guess they could be united in the one Service job, but with at least basic self-organization. I mean game should analyze traits of all service girls.

Let's say player has 2 characters with different traits, first one is good for cleaning and second one is good for waitress job. In such case building is clean and customers have their drinks. However, if neither is good for cleaning and both are good for waitress, then building is not as clean as it could be, but  customers in bar are very happy. Or something like this.

2) She can either return emptyhanded = you get nothing, or she can fulfill the mission, meaning you get back your investment and something on top. Can also be a part of missions set
I don't see any real difference from the wm dungeon exploration. They might as well find some item at the mission, or capture some girl - when we'll have a decent item system and corresponding characters.

3) I want to handle missing picture categories by revering to profile category, a different approach is having a number of generic pics without faces
Yup, WM has such faceless pics. Personally, I would prefer profile pics, generic usually seem out of place to me.

4) SFW (Safe for work). Do we need such a option?
Unless you going to sell the game via mobile platforms app stores, I think we don't need it  :D

5) Storyline and endings. If you have any ideas for objectives for the game as a whole, put those in writing, maybe with some texts. I do not mean missions system here. What is needed: Story, simple Plot and a number of endings based on player's actions.
I have a couple of ideas actually. I'll write it tomorrow, it's getting late already.


I'm thinking that there should probably be an option to send multiple people to the mission for bonus success. to give it more depth, perhaps factor in character stats for the amount of loot each person can haul back.
Good idea.

Offline Armegetton

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Re: SimBrothel: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #271 on: February 15, 2013, 06:54:41 PM »
1) Do we need categories for Service Jobs (Bar-Tender, Club Waitress, Cleaner. (I am thinking about leaving LapDancer for WMlike version))

I'd say yes, but I'd also want to keep the 'general category' as well, for those players who just want a certain girl to just take care of whatever. Let them choose a specific or over-head type commands and the game can sort through who goes where during the 'next day' function.

Example, girl A has orders to Clean, girl B has orders to Clean, girl C has order to Bartend, girl D has orders to General Service. If this particular brothel serves food as well, we can assume girl D will be placed into the empty role (waitressing), if it doesn't and girl B refuses to clean, the game may decide to place girl D in girl B's cleaning role. Etc

This way, players don't have to focus on who is where and doing what as far as services go, but for whatever reason (maybe because of a trait or skill) the player definitely wants girl X to perform job Y every time.  This will allow that as well.

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2) Idea: For warrior types, except keeping unruly costumers under control, what about simple sponsoring of quests for the SimBro version. Basically you give an amount of money to a girl to cover travel expenses, equipment and so on and in return she goes on quest for a number of days. She can either return emptyhanded = you get nothing, or she can fulfill the mission, meaning you get back your investment and something on top. Can also be a part of missions set. That shouldn't be to difficult to program and will solve the issue on what to do with warriors before the Arena in WMlike version.

I really like this idea. It reminds me of FFTA (for the GBA) where you can send your peeps on little missions. Perhaps these 'mini missions' can be considered the 'whoring' equivalent. Maybe ....

Prostitute ----------- Warrior
Whoring                  Mini Mission
Services                  Security/Bouncer
Advertising              Patrolling Streets (maybe lowers chances of rowdy customers and occasionally fights tentacle monsters/whatever)

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3) I want to handle missing picture categories by revering to profile category, a different approach is having a number of generic pics without faces and fall back to that (for example, if there is no pic in strip category, game can either show a generic strip pic or a pic from profile category of a girl). Personally I would vote for profile pics but we can go either way or even both ways, simply allowing to choose preferred way in gameoptions.

Yes to game options, yes to both.

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4) SFW (Safe for work). Do we need such a option? I vote against cause while it is easy to achieve with pics, it is very bothersome to get here with texts.

No. If you want to play this at work, you are probably comfortable enough to watch porn at work.

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5) Storyline and endings. If you have any ideas for objectives for the game as a whole, put those in writing, maybe with some texts. I do not mean missions system here. What is needed: Story, simple Plot and a number of endings based on player's actions. Not to complex but not to simple either. And if possible futureproof, so not to much would have to be changed in WM version.

I'll try to throw one by you real quick.

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I am working on Service Job, trying to make sure it's smart and not counter intuitive. After that is finished, security job and schools and any other jobs we deem necessary for the SimBro version. With that done, I'll start making the game better moddable. I cannot give any timeframes cause there is no way of knowing how much time can be put into the code.

No worries. No rush. No stress. Take all the time you need. I'll help where I can.

This could be the end ...

Offline Xela

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Re: SimBrothel: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #272 on: February 16, 2013, 03:56:39 AM »
wow that actually sounds like a really good idea.  it would remove some tedious battle mechanic that wouldn't really add to the gameplay while offering a wider spectrum of management simulation.  I think there is a lot of room for improvement on this idea though.  Perhaps factor in loyalty to see if they run away?

I'm thinking that there should probably be an option to send multiple people to the mission for bonus success. to give it more depth, perhaps factor in character stats for the amount of loot each person can haul back.  So needing to consider sending multiple people on the same mission for maximum haul vs sending them out on multiple missions would make some meaningful choices between exp rate and loot.

Multiple girls shouldn't be much harder to code than single. It's all good basically, we'll see what others have to say and decide.
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Offline Xela

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Re: SimBrothel: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #273 on: February 16, 2013, 05:07:52 AM »
I guess they could be united in the one Service job, but with at least basic self-organization. I mean game should analyze traits of all service girls.

Let's say player has 2 characters with different traits, first one is good for cleaning and second one is good for waitress job. In such case building is clean and customers have their drinks. However, if neither is good for cleaning and both are good for waitress, then building is not as clean as it could be, but  customers in bar are very happy. Or something like this.

Did I not say I am coding a 'smart job' :) Traits will be included eventually. Don't worry about it.



I don't see any real difference from the wm dungeon exploration. They might as well find some item at the mission, or capture some girl - when we'll have a decent item system and corresponding characters.

Difference is that in WM free girls do not really need you and you risk nothing when sending them on dangerous quests. It's like.

- You meet a girl with decent battle stats in the city.
- You send her on her own to fight some beasts and monsters.
- You split income.

- My question is why the f*ck does she need you at all? She can go adventuring somewhere else.

In Pytfall it would made a bit more sense:

- You sponsor the quest, investing money in it (so she could buy necessary equipment and provisions).
- You can organize a party.
- These quests can take longer than one turn.
- You can choose the difficulty of a quest.

Basically you're useful, in ways others than just providing home base for operations. I am still not sure that we need this for SimBro version but there would be literally nothing for warrior girls to do in the game under current design plans, cause warriors would be reluctant to clean, strip or whore for money.

Yup, WM has such faceless pics. Personally, I would prefer profile pics, generic usually seem out of place to me.

Yeah, my thoughts exactly.

Unless you going to sell the game via mobile platforms app stores, I think we don't need it  :D

No such plans but many games still bother with this, I never really understood why.

+ Also, Pytfall as an app is a possibility but I have no plans to release such a thing. Not until there is a satisfactory WM-like version for Win/Linux/Mac.


I have a couple of ideas actually. I'll write it tomorrow, it's getting late already.

Ok, there is no rush, games like this take time to build.
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: SimBrothel: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #274 on: February 16, 2013, 05:27:33 AM »
In Pytfall it would made a bit more sense:
- You sponsor the quest, investing money in it (so she could buy necessary equipment and provisions).
- You can organize a party.
- These quests can take longer than one turn.
- You can choose the difficulty of a quest.
I see. Yeah, sounds like a good idea to me.
Talking about equipment reminds me, player shouldn't have free access to free girls inventory. He may offer some item or ask for some item, but it should be up to girl to accept a gift or give item to player depending on disposition, status and so on. Of course, slaves are different story.

Offline Xela

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Re: SimBrothel: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #275 on: February 16, 2013, 05:46:02 AM »
I'd say yes, but I'd also want to keep the 'general category' as well, for those players who just want a certain girl to just take care of whatever. Let them choose a specific or over-head type commands and the game can sort through who goes where during the 'next day' function.

Example, girl A has orders to Clean, girl B has orders to Clean, girl C has order to Bartend, girl D has orders to General Service. If this particular brothel serves food as well, we can assume girl D will be placed into the empty role (waitressing), if it doesn't and girl B refuses to clean, the game may decide to place girl D in girl B's cleaning role. Etc

This way, players don't have to focus on who is where and doing what as far as services go, but for whatever reason (maybe because of a trait or skill) the player definitely wants girl X to perform job Y every time.  This will allow that as well.


No, you misunderstood. I was talking about image categories. Service Job works in a different way.

- Girl can refuse/agree to do a ServiceGirl job (only as a whole, not per task), that job is split in tasks: Bar-Tending, Cleaning, Tending-Club-Tables. Girl priorities in order to keep costumers happy. Meaning one girl can tend bar, serve as a waitress and clean all in one turn (try to remember girls in Pytfall have APs that they spend)

- There might be an option to overwrite in the future (Like girl focusing on one task until there is no work left for this task).

: So in short system in place now is already more advanced than the one you suggested.


I really like this idea. It reminds me of FFTA (for the GBA) where you can send your peeps on little missions. Perhaps these 'mini missions' can be considered the 'whoring' equivalent. Maybe ....

Prostitute ----------- Warrior
Whoring                  Mini Mission
Services                  Security/Bouncer
Advertising Patrolling Streets (maybe lowers chances of rowdy customers and occasionally fights tentacle monsters/whatever)

That is one thing I wanted to avoid. There should be no equivalents of jobs between Occupations (Classes). I would have adapted simple generic functions approach and be done with it already. Instead I wish to try and make every job at least 'feel' unique.

PS: Prostitutes will almost always refuse doing services... unless they are slaves.



Yes to game options, yes to both.

Right, but like I've said, I dislike the generic pics option myself so while I am perfectly ok with writing code to allow both, I will not be the one to search and edit default pictures for all categories.



No. If you want to play this at work, you are probably comfortable enough to watch porn at work.

Yeah, it's off that OW and I believe also SM have such options. Why wasting time to make a hentai game SFW instead of adding new features is beyond me.


I'll try to throw one by you real quick.

I've read the PM.

Basically the rival idea or the area control idea, difficulty levels idea, all of those have been proposed before. When I asked for ideas, I meant with sketches of some texts, events and maybe even NPC's involved. I will be done with jobs soon and we are approaching time when simple concepts is not enough. Better, more concrete texts, NPC personalities, Ending requirement are needed. Obviously those would have to be adjusted many time in the future but that counts for every single element of the game and we're still making the game, not just talking about making one. I cannot see why same thing cannot be done with storyline, endings and plot...


No worries. No rush. No stress. Take all the time you need. I'll help where I can.

That's my base approach to indie development :)
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Offline Xela

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Re: SimBrothel: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #276 on: February 16, 2013, 05:53:40 AM »
I see. Yeah, sounds like a good idea to me.
Talking about equipment reminds me, player shouldn't have free access to free girls inventory. He may offer some item or ask for some item, but it should be up to girl to accept a gift or give item to player depending on disposition, status and so on. Of course, slaves are different story.

Yeah, unless we decide to do the advanced inventory for the SimBro version, we should leave buying equipment only for brothel workers.
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: SimBrothel: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #277 on: February 16, 2013, 07:06:46 AM »
So, about the storyline. I would like to avoid such usual plot for brothel games as "competitors killed MC father having left him with one brothel with one old ugly whore and astronomical debts, let's give them the symmetric answer". I don't say we shouldn't use such ideas at all, but I'd like to have a little more serious story.

I have two ideas, which can be used together or separately. First one is conflict with slaves, which, as we know, have provoked war in the past. So player could enslave free girls, help slave traders and so on, or give freedom to slaves, help their underground opposition, secretly train them as warriors and so on. I guess we need some kind of stat reflecting such player's deeds.
In order to not complicate gameplay, just using slaves at some jobs shouldn't influence it, it should be neutral deed.

Second idea is to search for prewar high magic and technologies, i.e. unique first class items and even artificial girls with good stats. Here we actually can use "dead father" idea, but as scientist studying prewar artifacts and killed for unknown reason (maybe by government), not as just some lame brothel manager. Competitors should look for them too.

If you like one or both of these ideas, I will expand them.

Offline Xela

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Re: SimBrothel: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #278 on: February 16, 2013, 07:44:29 AM »
So, about the storyline. I would like to avoid such usual plot for brothel games as "competitors killed MC father having left him with one brothel with one old ugly whore and astronomical debts, let's give them the symmetric answer". I don't say we shouldn't use such ideas at all, but I'd like to have a little more serious story.

I have two ideas, which can be used together or separately. First one is conflict with slaves, which, as we know, have provoked war in the past. So player could enslave free girls, help slave traders and so on, or give freedom to slaves, help their underground opposition, secretly train them as warriors and so on. I guess we need some kind of stat reflecting such player's deeds.
In order to not complicate gameplay, just using slaves at some jobs shouldn't influence it, it should be neutral deed.

Second idea is to search for prewar high magic and technologies, i.e. unique first class items and even artificial girls with good stats. Here we actually can use "dead father" idea, but as scientist studying prewar artifacts and killed for unknown reason (maybe by government), not as just some lame brothel manager. Competitors should look for them too.

If you like one or both of these ideas, I will expand them.

Actually both ideas are awesome... but both will push the game into Alkion's trap. Advanced storyline makes a Simulation game look more and more like an RPG. Even worse, players who may just want to sim, are forced reading long plot lines.

Also it increases on workload (sometimes increases it by 3x - 4x times like with Alkion where we adapted a world from a freaking series of fantasy books and game needs to reflect that).

But to tell you the truth, I love the first idea. It offers a lot of potential since 90 - 95% of girl from Anime/Games would oppose slavery. You can either side with your girls telling them that you're a part of the resistance and they will do their tasks more willingly while secretly training in combat (something that will be forbidden by law regardless of what plot we go with). Or you have to break them "SM" or even better "Valet Pletej" style and government/guilds are your best friends and support. Trouble is that I did not want to do the latter before WM version.

KOTOR darkside/lightside way is no difficult to program.


STILL:


Generic plots with multiple endings should not be ruled out as they require a LOT less development time. I might even prefer that because I STILL cannot see how advanced plot and simulation game play out in (for example) Alkion and avoiding that was the main reason I started my own project. Badly implemented, both Sim and RPG would suck... and to Implement advanced plot in simulation game well, insane amount of planning and writing is required, also many custom events by modders would have to reflect that reality and it does kill creativity and possibilities to some extent.

I am working on 'cleaning' part of service job code right now, see if you and other member of dev team who might be interested could come up with a plot that would not be to intrusive to simulation gameplay. We can discuss that for couple of days or weeks and then simply decide on something.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2013, 07:51:00 AM by Xela »
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: SimBrothel: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #279 on: February 16, 2013, 08:21:32 AM »
Advanced storyline makes a Simulation game look more and more like an RPG. Even worse, players who may just want to sim, are forced reading long plot lines.
Really? They don't seem so advanced to me. After all, you asked for "sketches of some texts, events and maybe even NPC", my little ideas are nothing in comparison to such things  :)

With the first one player just decides how many slaves and free girls he is going to use, or just ignore it and get neutral "nothing has changed" ending. With the price of one additional, maybe hidden stat.

With the second one player just need to collect a certain amount of any techs (=good items and unique girls, nothing new here, you will do such things anyway) and maybe hide and protect them from government or just some bad people. In advanced version we can use additional Scientist job for smart characters to study prewar techs. The more techs you successfully obtain (maybe within optional time limit) and the less techs obtained by enemies, the better ending you have.

In other words, plots have potential for making game more rpg-like, but it's unnecessary.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2013, 08:41:23 AM by DarkTl »

Offline Xela

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Re: SimBrothel: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #280 on: February 16, 2013, 09:07:22 AM »
Really? They don't seem so advanced to me. After all, you asked for "sketches of some texts, events and maybe even NPC", my little ideas are nothing in comparison to such things  :)

With the first one player just decides how many slaves and free girls he is going to use, or just ignore it and get neutral "nothing has changed" ending. With the price of one additional, maybe hidden stat.

With the second one player just need to collect a certain amount of any techs (=good items and unique girls, nothing new here, you will do such things anyway) and maybe hide and protect them from government or just some bad people. In advanced version we can use additional Scientist job for smart characters to study prewar techs. The more techs you successfully obtain (maybe within optional time limit) and the less techs obtained by enemies, the better ending you have.

In other words, plots have potential for making game more rpg-like, but it's unnecessary.

Fair enough, but some things can be achieved with generic plot, just check for slave/free girls percentage at endgame and if within limits, launch a corresponding endgame. In any case, if you feel up to it, try to lay out the ideas and when/how they are presented in game. Like during an intro obviously and in ending but also when does player get ending related quests and missions in between and so on.

I think we should start with 3 ending for beta and 7+ for final SimBro version.
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: SimBrothel: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #281 on: February 16, 2013, 09:38:54 AM »
OK, how about mixing these plots? One thing is player does or doesn't support slavery, second is does he has enough power (=prewar techs=artefacts and girls) to actually do something about it.
This will give us as many endings as we need.

One more thing, I doubt I'm able to write big enough English text without any mistakes, so I guess we need corrector.

Offline Xela

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Re: SimBrothel: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #282 on: February 16, 2013, 09:51:28 AM »
OK, how about mixing these plots? One thing is player does or doesn't support slavery, second is does he has enough power (=prewar techs=artefacts and girls) to actually do something about it.
This will give us as many endings as we need.

One more thing, I doubt I'm able to write big enough English text without any mistakes, so I guess we need corrector.

LoL @ 'corrector'

Proofreader or editor :)

I wouldn't worry to much about that. If game is fun, there will be plenty of people who will offer help with expanding and improving the content. Our task is to create a good base.
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: SimBrothel: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #283 on: February 16, 2013, 10:06:23 AM »
LoL @ 'corrector'

Proofreader or editor :)
Yup, that's exactly what I'm talking about  :D

I'll think about the game story for a day or two, meanwhile someone may suggest a much better plot, who knows.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2013, 10:10:07 AM by DarkTl »

Offline Xela

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Re: SimBrothel: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #284 on: February 16, 2013, 10:21:07 AM »
Yup, that's exactly what I'm talking about  :D

I'll think about the game story for a day or two, meanwhile someone may suggest a much better plot, who knows.

'Corrector' is fine by the way, just not the first choice for this particular example :)

------------------------------------------------------------------------
By the way, while I am busy with writing code, can someone find a couple of pics for schools???

We need some form of a Beauty (Charisma), Dancing (Constitution, bit of Refinement), Etiquette (Refinement, bit of charisma), Service (Service skill I've added recently, bit of agility),  Combat? (Non-slave girls only), maybe more?
« Last Edit: February 16, 2013, 10:25:19 AM by Xela »
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