Whore Master Cathexis

[graodeareia]

There is much talk about the combat. I tried to write a post just explaing the combat in order to make things clearer, but it seams a bit complicated. You guy can continue your discussion, be sure that I'm reading and taking things into consideration. The only way to make combat clear is release a combat demo. But I traveled for a few days and so I got no work done this weekend.
This game's goal is to make a better WM, not to make a completely diferent game. Therefore the focus will still be managment, not combat. Its much easier for us to to take a look back on all the was done by the original developers and expand and enhance the original experience than it was to develop the game originaly. The fact that the game has a more well thought out combat system does not mean combat will take a bigger row a in the game. It might take a little bit bigger of a role in the final game, then in the vanilla WM but it will never be the focus. But when discussing attributes, combat becomes an important topic. When discussing other parts of the game, combat will be less important or completely ignored. The importance of combat is mainly related to how important it is to explore the catacombs. Catacomb exploration will be the main form to get new higher class girls, but not the only one. So it will probabily be ok to completely ignore the catacomb if a player wishes. But just becouse a player can choose to ignore a part of the game doen't mean that part should not be well thought out. Those that want to make it an important part of their games should have fun doing so. Managing of your combat dedicated girls should be complex enough for players that want to exercise their expertise on this aspect of the game, but simple enough so that those that wish, can quickly set things up or just ignore it.

Right now I'm working on some graphics assets. And I suck at it. Having a hard time geting something resonable out. But its necessary to get at least something that looks more like game and less like a bussiness app. After I make some of the grapichs and incorporate it into the dema I will work on the combat system. When that gets released I hope it will all fall into place and you guys can then get a better view of what combat will look like in this game.

[jozsi1]

Hi all!


I guess we should reconsider our focus. This game will be a brothel simulator, not a battle one, wont it? So I think we should discuss the "jobs" in the game, how will it works etc...


I think, the traits should have the bigger effects on their jobs, not the stats. By my opinion, the traits can provide better balance than stats.


What is your opinion?

[jozsi1]

Hi all again


I have an important idea about the WM what I want to share. In my opinion too many girls in the current WM games. I mean, even the 1st brothel has 20 rooms, the newers have more and more... I believe it could increase the enjoyment of game, if there arent so much rooms in the brothels, and it could depend on the style of the brothel.


I mean, for example a luxury type brothel for rich customers need only a few rooms. Maybe 1 for the Matron, 1 for the security, and maybe 3 or 4 for the "working" girls. Each of them provide "full" service (massage, strip, maid and sex).


A brothel for a middle class customers can have a bit more numbers of room and more separate tasks for the girls. 1-1 for matron and security, 5-6 rooms for sex, 3-4 for strip, waitress, bar, etc...


A brothel for the low class customers can have the highest numbers of room, and highly separate tasks. 1 for matron, maybe 2 security. 5-6 for sex and 5-6 for the bar / gambling hall.


Please think about it


Best regards

[fires_flair]

you can have as many or as few girls in the brothels or game as you want. you don't need to download or keep more then you want.

[jozsi1]

Hi


I am afraid you missunderstood me. I was talking about the rooms of the brothels. And current WM games supports the high number of rooms / girls game style only.


So I was talking about lets make a change, the numbers of the rooms should be contarvertory contact with the social level of the brothel. High grade brodel low numbers, low grade one high number.


BB

[Atrun]

If you plan to mess with the building setup, then I suggest the number of rooms be the least of it.  In order to have the buildings realistic as far as I see it, there are a few criteria I can think of:
1. Size/Area, this is the square footage of a building/land, thus affecting how many rooms can be built for that building.
2. Quality, The difference between sectioning off a warehouse for your brothel, or buying a mansion.
3. Area of town, If you build a fancy brothel in the slums, you're still going to mainly get scumbags, whereas a shack amidst the town mansions probably won't get much business either.

I would also suggest that there be multiple options at various levels of influence.  You may be able to buy the small, somewhat fancy townhouse and turn it into a brothel, or buy the larger but less attractive apartment building and therefore get more rooms at a lower rate of customer attraction/customer pay grade (which would be another idea, richer customers that pay more for better whores, poorer ones that can't afford the good ones-careful where you put them)

[bobjohn]

hm... your attribute system is a good move in the right direction but you still have more attributes than necessary that doesn't add much to game-play or immersion


try this


Physical - everything physical: carry weight, combat, whatever
Mind - everything magical: spells, spell damage, discipline, whatever
HP - just pure hp:  taking damage lowers hp, doing jobs cost hp, spells cost hp, hp recovers as a percentage
Charm - whatever whore stat


damage resistance/mitigation whatever is a mechanic that doesn't really make a game more fun or add strategic depth.  Just a archaic filler mechanic designer have been using for years


I can assert that you don't really need secondary/derived attributes too.  Things like obedience or libido can easily be replace by some traits or be remove all together. 


you also might want to increase the max attribute.  20 is way too low for modern game.  Gamers like a sense of "progression".  Meaning numbers should increase (and increase frequently) for players to feel like they are on somewhere.  100 or removing an upper bound all together create satisfaction.

[Shilo]

hm... your attribute system is a good move in the right direction but you still have more attributes than necessary that doesn't add much to game-play or immersion


try this


Physical - everything physical: carry weight, combat, whatever
Mind - everything magical: spells, spell damage, discipline, whatever
HP - just pure hp:  taking damage lowers hp, doing jobs cost hp, spells cost hp, hp recovers as a percentage
Charm - whatever whore stat


damage resistance/mitigation whatever is a mechanic that doesn't really make a game more fun or add strategic depth.  Just a archaic filler mechanic designer have been using for years


I can assert that you don't really need secondary/derived attributes too.  Things like obedience or libido can easily be replace by some traits or be remove all together. 


you also might want to increase the max attribute.  20 is way too low for modern game.  Gamers like a sense of "progression".  Meaning numbers should increase (and increase frequently) for players to feel like they are on somewhere.  100 or removing an upper bound all together create satisfaction.

[  ] You understood what people like about the original WM gameplay.
[X] You want a dead easy game without any challenge and shallow game mechanics.

[jhhk]

You mentioned that the catacombs won't be the only place to acquire higher-class girls, and I kinda wanted to touch base on that. In the original game the places you could get girls were from the catacombs, the slave market, kidnapping, customers who couldn't pay, getting a girl pregnant, and random encounters wandering in the city. Now, in the first game there were girls that you could only find in the catacombs, the slave pens, or anywhere else; so my question is, do you intend to make it so that certain girls are exclusive to other methods? For example, Character A can only be found thru kidnapping, whereas Character B can only be acquired by fathering a child, and Character C must be gotten thru customers defaulting on the bill.

Also, what about new methods of acquiring girls not found in the first game? I remember someone wishing that the leaders of rival organizations were female, and that you could acquire them once they were defeated. Perhaps that could be a way to obtain exclusive, ultra high-class women? Maybe said rivals could also have henchmen or assassins that, once defeated, you could claim.

[Ctwo]

If you plan to mess with the building setup, then I suggest the number of rooms be the least of it.  In order to have the buildings realistic as far as I see it, there are a few criteria I can think of:
1. Size/Area, this is the square footage of a building/land, thus affecting how many rooms can be built for that building.
2. Quality, The difference between sectioning off a warehouse for your brothel, or buying a mansion.
3. Area of town, If you build a fancy brothel in the slums, you're still going to mainly get scumbags, whereas a shack amidst the town mansions probably won't get much business either.

I would also suggest that there be multiple options at various levels of influence.  You may be able to buy the small, somewhat fancy townhouse and turn it into a brothel, or buy the larger but less attractive apartment building and therefore get more rooms at a lower rate of customer attraction/customer pay grade (which would be another idea, richer customers that pay more for better whores, poorer ones that can't afford the good ones-careful where you put them)

You might want to go a bit further and have a "Releator's Office" that rents or sells buildings. Rent should be 1/100th of the cost of the building. Selling a building should give you an option to take half value now or wait 2-12 weeks to get full value. Buildings should have fields for neighborhood (other buildings in area: residential, buisiness, docks, industrial, resort, entertainment, religious), income area (low, middle or high), starting and max rooms for whoring (current/max), appearance rating (affects income level of customers, the better the appearance the better the customers attracted), number of possible amenities and any current amenities (max number: current amenities). Price (rent/own).
Buildings shouldn't just stay available for sale, but should be like the slave market. Everytime you visit new buildings are available. Prices should be determined by the combine value of all other factors. The neighborhood and income area should be the leading two values with rooms having a smaller effect. Appearance and amenities should be adders. So some formula like: [area X income X (current + max / 2 ) ] + appearance + amenities + amenities value = property value.
Amenities include special rooms that can have a positive (or negative) effect on the brothel. Some amenities would earn income, others would come with weekly costs. Some amenities would require some girls to work the amenity, others are benifits from just being there. Some examples would be: adding a bar (requires 2 girls min/6 girls max. generates a seperate customer list and generates a small profit, attracts customers), restraunt (like bar), stripping stage (like bar), garden (adds to building's appearance, raises girl's stats), gambling (requires workers, may loose money but tends to gain a profit, doesn't attract customers but instead gains more money based on the brothel's number of clients), drug den (lowers girl's resistance to performance, lowers girls health over time, makes a profit, lowers attractiveness of the building but raises the number of customers, possability of being busted by police/guards), gym (girls stats slowly improve, girls need more rest), study (girls stats slowly improve, girls need more fun), pool (girls have more fun, small chance of stat improvements), clinic (girls are less likely to be injured, get pregnet, or suffer from other bad health effects. Girls recover faster from injuries. Has a weekly cost for medicine and a nurse/doctor).
Some amenities should affect all of the brothels. For instance if you build a clinic the other brothels could use it too. Generally the effects of each amenity should only affect the girls in that building. Also you should be able to assign more girls to a building that it has rooms, but only allow prostitution equal to the number of rooms availalbe. Maybe max girls per building should be max room+max amenities because girls could use the potential room to live in even if it isn't ready for business use?

[Journeyman1]

Ok I noticed some talking about the good reputation style and how to get some of the girls from it and treat them.  Just a few ideas on that.  How about rescuing an unruly slave or criminal from a execution through bribes and at the stake of your own reputation that they can be made to see the better view.  Another would be to rescue/buy a slave from a horrible mistreating master or slave owner.  Rescue a girl from a rival gang attack.  Send a warrior/gang into the catacombs in search of an abducted girl.  I was also wondering since I'm pretty certain that the girls can be come pregnant in this version as well by the player.  What will happen with the male offspring?  Will they be put in charge of a gang, form their own gang, help you to manage a brothel like that of a matron, or help you to break unruly slaves/girls like that of a torturer.  Maybe trained as assassins to steal or kill your rivals security teams/girls so their brothel loose face.  When you defeat a rival or a rival is defeated by another will their be a chance for you as the player to maybe pick up some of the slaves/girls who are now homeless and jobless due to the attack assuming they were not picked up by the group who destroyed your rival?  Good rep would be to shelter the girls/slaves that have been brutally attacked if your rival attacked another rival/or could be made to look that way.  Bad rep would be a raiding party to round up all girls/slaves and kill any gangs so no witnesses other than your men.  Just some ideas i don't know how hard some will be to implement in game.  I am so out of practice coding that i have no clue how hard or difficult this would be to put in the game at this stage and time.  Some of it i think would be easy others more difficult.  (Haven't coded in any language in 14yrs or better, alot has changed.)

[Badger]

You mentioned that the catacombs won't be the only place to acquire higher-class girls, and I kinda wanted to touch base on that. In the original game the places you could get girls were from the catacombs, the slave market, kidnapping, customers who couldn't pay, getting a girl pregnant, and random encounters wandering in the city. Now, in the first game there were girls that you could only find in the catacombs, the slave pens, or anywhere else; so my question is, do you intend to make it so that certain girls are exclusive to other methods? For example, Character A can only be found thru kidnapping, whereas Character B can only be acquired by fathering a child, and Character C must be gotten thru customers defaulting on the bill.

Also, what about new methods of acquiring girls not found in the first game? I remember someone wishing that the leaders of rival organizations were female, and that you could acquire them once they were defeated. Perhaps that could be a way to obtain exclusive, ultra high-class women? Maybe said rivals could also have henchmen or assassins that, once defeated, you could claim.

I also really like this idea.  Being able to obtain girls through certain events or challenges would add another goal-based aspect to the game that I think a lot of people would enjoy.  Capturing random girls from rivals would weaken them/make them more hostile towards you, while also having unique "key" girls that can only be obtained through the destruction or assimilation of that clan.  You might even consider gaining unique girls through more political means like trading with non hostile groups based on the girls' value.

On a similar note, I think the girls should have not only a monetary value, but a trade value relative to other girls.  The trade value could reflect their monetary value but would be on a simpler scale, such as 1-5 or 1-10 "value points" (so you could potentially trade two girls valued at 3 and 4 for a single girl valued at 6).  The number would only be considered when trading the girls for other girls, however, depending on your relation with the group you intend to trade with, they might be willing to trade for a slightly lower or significantly higher value of girl/girls.

Another possible way of obtaining girls could be through favors owed by politicians, or even extortion of more corrupt politicians.  This would not only add another method of building your personnel but would also give a purpose to the "disposition" stat and the level of political influence.

I make all of these suggestions because I think they would add to the strategy of the game, making it somewhat more intellectual and really adding depth to the "business" aspect you would expect to be involved in running your character's establishment.

I know some players just want a simple "click 1000+ times to become the whoremaster" gameplay, but I really would like for it to take a little more work to get the girls I want and to actually feel like I've accomplished something once I own everything in the game. 

I want girls to really feel like prizes for victory or wise business decisions and outside party relations.  This would also make girls an extremely important asset and less expendable than they currently are since they would even have a trade value.

What do you guys think?  I'd appreciate some feedback about my perspective, maybe if anyone else would like to see the game take this route.

[jhhk]

I fully support the the idea of turning each girl and her images into a reward, and in fact making it so that most girls can only be acquired through game-play.

As a side-note, I am looking forward to when this project reaches the point where we can start creating the girls, because I am sitting on a rather large collection of character image sets I created with the intent of making characters for WM 1. With a sequel in the works though, I would rather wait for the new game.

[CeeBod]

I've been playing Sim Brothel 1x lately, and one thing that has that WM could do with is the girls' weekly schedule planners - allowing easy selection (via drop-down) of jobs for each girl for each day of the week.  The thing is that Sim Brothel 1x plays 1 day at a time so it doesn't really need a weekly planner so much, whilst WM has each turn being a week but with only 2 shifts to select for, really feels more like it's also 1 day per turn.

IMO effective use of a weekly job planner could really add to the game, as well as simplifying quite a lot of things:  Fatigue can be simplified by having each girl require a certain number of shifts as "rest/time off" per week, depending on her stats & talents - so an average girl would maybe need 4 half-day shifts off in a week, whilst a girl with high Constitution and talents like Construct or non-corporeal would be fine on just 1 shift resting per week.  That way you can ignore fatigue calculation most of the time, and simplify it the rest - if the girl gets the required amount of time off there's no need to calculate fatigue.  Overworking (set less shifts as rest than required) adds to fatigue and unhappiness, over-resting (set more to rest) recoups them, simples!
 
Similarly libido/sex weariness can be simplified as the number of shifts per week a girl can work as a whore - that could be a soft limit that results in penalties if you go over, or it could be a hard limit that stops you selecting more than the girl's maximum completely.  A useful side effect to this would be forcing the player to develop and make use of the non-whore jobs, and also manage the rotation of girls across multiple jobs to keep them earning, unlike the current WM vanilla situation of set all to whore as default and just manage fatigue. 
 
Disobedience and refusing jobs can also be tied in with this - overworking, and working at or above (if allowed) her libido limit will increase the chance of a girl refusing to work, extra rest and working less shifts as a whore reduce the chance.

[drake]

I actually like the above ideas about the planner.  Of course I am assuming that it wouldn't be too hard to code? Hopefully not.  And more importantly, is this still being worked on?