Maximum number of traits

[zodiac44]

Currently, traits are maxed out at 30 (which is far more than any beginning character ought to have), but it presents a problem late game.  I usually have a ginormous pile of filthy lucre sitting around waiting to be wasted on whatever whims strike my fancy.  Usually, this involves inserting absurdly expensive trait-adding items and buying them for all my girls to create my army of uberfrauen whores.  When you hit the limit of 30, however, new traits disappear into the ether, never to be seen.  This applies to traits picked up in the course of game play as well.  For example, a trait-maxed girl will never become fragile, addicted to drugs, get an STD, or be broken through torture, to name a few.  Now I don't suggest that you change things just to suit my whims (although when I lay out multiple millions for neural reprogramming drugs and physical reconditioning nanites to perfect one of my girls, I think I've earned the reward of having it work), but I can't see the logic of limiting the number of traits a girl can have, even for game-balance reasons.  Limiting the number of traits a girl can start with is one thing, but whatever luck or misfortune bestows upon a girl in the game, she should keep, regardless of the number of traits she already has.

If you are concerned with save game bloat from having massive numbers of traits, you can get around that by storing the traits in a binary number, with each bit enabling or disabling a given trait.  Convert the binary string into a hex value to store in the save file.  Pick a large enough number of bits to start with, and you won't have to worry about running out of digits for traits.  Of course, doing this would break the existing .girls/.rgirls files unless the game engine makes the conversion or someone releases a conversion tool.

The suggestion comes with the caveat that I am not aware of how things are handled on the back end, so it may be completely impractical.

[letmein]

Frankly, I think that 30 traits is a ridiculous number, period.

I think traits should be split into two types - ones that are restricted, and ones that aren't.  The second group should pretty much be all the drugs, the diseases, the scars, and perhaps Masochist/Fragile.  The rest could be reasonably capped at, say, 10-15.  Seriously, how many traits should you need to describe a girl?

[zodiac44]

If a picture is worth a thousand words, how many is the person whose picture it is worth?  I bet a whole lot more than 30.

That being said, this is a game, and shouldn't be expected to encapsulate the entire essence of each and every character in the game.  Given that the list of traits is restrictive in and of itself, where is the harm in letting a girl obtain all non-mutually exclusive traits?  Why prevent a massive accumulation of traits?  Maybe I'm just blind to the consequences, but I fail to see how a limit helps anyone (or, conversely, prevents something bad from happening).

I already suggested that a limit on the number of starting traits might be a good idea, just to keep overzealous designers in check.  There is no challenge in the game if you start with super girls who all have a zillion traits and maxed out stats, but in the end game when you are making money hand over fist, who gives a crap if your girls have every trait in the game?

[DocClox]

Personally, I'd like to see the starting trait number reduced as well. I tend to ignore traits on the whole, unless I'm looking for something with a game effect like fragile, or an addiction. The main reason is that they all get the same after a while, and you have this army of cool, sexy, big-boobed lolitas with great arses. If it was limited to say six traits, then you'd have to really think about which where the essential traits of the character.

But this has been suggested before, and the girl designers were not at all impressed.

[letmein]

Yeah.  That'd be me.   

Frankly, most traits don't do much more than add fetishes.  Ignoring the others for a moment, I guess my view is still that having girls with every possible fetish trait defeats the purposes of having fetishes.  I can understand where the modders are coming from - they have a neat toy, they like to play with it, they put lots of work into it and don't owe anything to complainers (or as I think of myself, a critic  ).   Why *should* they restrict themselves?

Meh.  MAybe someday I'll just have to slam together a patch to de-trait the girls myself.

[Rose]

I also find the trait limit annoying. I'm something of a perfectionist, and I feel that if I want to spend hudreds of thousands on turning my girls into super-whores, that should be possible. Seeing as the total number of traits in the game isn't that high, it wouldn't really bloat save files very much.

[zodiac44]

Meh.  MAybe someday I'll just have to slam together a patch to de-trait the girls myself.

You could make an item which removes every trait from a girl, and then play traitless  >;o)

I also find the trait limit annoying. I'm something of a perfectionist,and I feel that if I want to spend hudreds of thousands on turning mygirls into super-whores, that should be possible. Seeing as the totalnumber of traits in the game isn't that high, it wouldn't really bloatsave files very much.

Ahh, a kindred soul!

I mention save game bloat only because there is a huge list of planned traits to add to the game (total would be over 100, IIRC).  Multiply that times hundreds of girls and you get a pretty hefty save file.  Saving traits as a binary string cuts down the space used for traits (assuming the average trait uses 10 characters at 1 byte per character) to 1/80th of the previous size, plus some small inefficiency factor for recording unused bits.

[NuMysterio]

Limitations, though, can make a work so much better.  If you're restricted to 6 traits, then you, the girl designer, must think very carefully about which ones best represent the girl.  Leaving the meaningless traits out and emphisising the important ones can make a girl more unique and special, creating a gem within a sea of sameness.  Couple it with stats and skills, and you can more accurately replicate any of your wank girls in a meaningful and creative way.

And keep in mind that item editing can and does allow you to build items to add extra traits and skills, so even your "perfect" girl with 30 traits might end up having many of them removed or changed (I actually have a Maturity Potion item that removes the Lolita trait).

I have found that LIMITS make you more creative than a wide open canvas, and I think the trait system of this game would benefit from it.

[zodiac44]

And I agree - that is fine and good when creating girls.  I have no problem with limiting traits at creation.  What I don't like is that the game limits them after creation.

[exodia91]

The point of having a modable game is that YOU can mod the game how YOU want, not how OTHER PEOPLE THINK YOU SHOULD. If you want girls with only 6 traits MAKE THEM YOURSELVES. If someone wants a big breasted loli with a great arse and an awesome eyepatch, who are you to limit them? You don't have to install girlpacks, you don't have to play with them, they don't come with the basic game, so STOP COMPLAINING.

[DocClox]

And I agree - that is fine and good when creating girls.  I have no problem with limiting traits at creation.  What I don't like is that the game limits them after creation.

I agree. There ought to be room to polish your girls to your hearts' content.

If you want girls with only 6 traits MAKE THEM YOURSELVES. If someone wants a big breasted loli with a great arse and an awesome eyepatch, who are you to limit them?

Furthermore, everyone should be able to write limericks with as many lines as they want, and no-one should have the right to say "but that's not really a limerick".

I must admit, I have difficulty understanding why you find this so upsetting.

You don't have to install girlpacks, you don't have to play with them, they don't come with the basic game, so STOP COMPLAINING.

We're not complaining. No one is saying "Exodia, you are doing a bad thing and we demand that you stop". We are discussing whether the game might not be better overall if you had fewer traits to play with at design time, and I think we're entitled to do that.

Your objection is however duly noted.

[zodiac44]

The point of having a modable game is that YOU can mod the game how YOU want, not how OTHER PEOPLE THINK YOU SHOULD. If you want girls with only 6 traits MAKE THEM YOURSELVES. If someone wants a big breasted loli with a great arse and an awesome eyepatch, who are you to limit them? You don't have to install girlpacks, you don't have to play with them, they don't come with the basic game, so STOP COMPLAINING.

I come from a RPG background, and I see traits as "special powers" that the girls have.  In my opinion, they should be acquired over time rather than at the start of the game.  I'm not the kind of player who likes to sit down for a game of D&D and create a 20th level character to start with - it just isn't fun for me.  It is for others, though, and that's fine.

When it comes to the girl packs, I often edit them myself to pare down the traits - and I'm fine with that.  Someone else went to the trouble of assembling a collection of pics, assigning stats, and writing up a description, for which I am thankful.  I appreciate what you and the other girl pack creators do.

I see where you are coming from, and I respect your opinion.  Quite frankly, I would rather not have any limits on traits at creation if it means there are no limits in the end game.

[necno]

well, no problem with increasing the max amount they can have (already have to 60). Nothing i can do about designers adding a lot at the beginning though.

[Rose]

I simply don't see the point of limiting the number of traits a modder can add to the girls in their girl packs. If you think they start with too many traits, it takes a few minutes at most to cut down their traits yourself.

[necno]

Having a limit of 60 is simply to cut down processing time. The game searches through traits (and many other things) a lot when you click next day. If the number of traits increases then the speed of the game will slow down. And as more stuff is going to be added to the game, i need to be careful how much processing i add.