Apparently we're close to rapists... or something

[GmanPrime]

I've always been found of the witticism "Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Nobody needs your god-damned approval to find it rewarding" I for one love to argue.

...Which means this thread really annoys me. By all means, I should be able to put forth some sort of argument with somebody, but GmanPrime pretty much said everything I might want to on the subject.

Well, accept for keeping in mind the idea that someone might dress a certain way without thinking about how it's provocative, which varies from culture to culture, and instead do it because they like the way it looks. This isn't a perfect example, but my step-sister went to an anime convention last year wearing a gothic lolita dress. She was rather shocked and disgusted to find out that a short petite pale blonde girl in that outfit was fetish fuel for some of the guys there. But then, this is a pretty poor example given that she's thirteen and selectively mute. Noone should've been hitting on her in the first place.

Yeah, I've actually seen the whole dressing provactively without thinking example.  My friend and co-worker was wearing a loose-fitting top which showed only a little bit of cleavage when standing up, and was helping some students with some work in a computer lab.  She kept getting an unusually high number of (male) students visiting her, and it wasn't until one of the other male co-workers who visited her as well commented on how nice her breasts were that she realized what was happening.  Apparently because of the way she was sitting and leaning forward the guys could see practically everything.  She was terribly embarressed and wanted to kill that guy, fortunately for all no one was put in a body bag, but the guy did get chewed out in public.   
 
Oh, and she was a very attractive woman in her late thirties, who looked better then most twenty somethings, and she was married.  Probably should have realized the effect she has on guys, but I guess a lot of women just don't think about these things.  My point was that those guys weren't bad or anything for looking, crass maybe but not bad, and others should respect that.
 
Its unfortunate about your step-sister though, I can see why a thirteen-year old girl is not thinking about fetishes, especially when those gothic outfits actually reveal a lot less then your average teen outfit anyways.  It was probably more a matter of some lolicons looking for a girl to ogle than anything else, but I've never understood the appeal of fetish fuel all that much myself.  I'm guessing though the fact she was mute just made the problem worse, you should probably explain the concept of moe to her before she ends up surrounded by squeeing guys and her faith in humanity goes down the toilet, if it hasn't already.

[Abtakha]

Gman, you are a far more verbose and persuasive talker than your namesake, I salute you, and Amoeba, for very good points I hadn't even considered.

[Spacebird]

I find one of the first lines very intereresting. Porn doesn't look the same as it has been 10 years ago. My question would be in what world does he live in. Nothing looks like 10 years ago (Maybe the fashion^^). TV doesn't look the same, games don't look the same even books are different. Why should porn be the acception?

Indeed.
and before the 1980's, when the primary hard core porn medium was Super 8 reels, I guess JohnHolmes was ever so tender ass fucking Seka, Serena, and anything else with a hole. And the Bondage magazines of the time I got hold of .....  must be the fog of memory that I recall showing a general theme of someone breaking in to a woman's house, tying her up, and torturing/raping her into orgasms. Odd side bar, while I did later find the BDSM culture I've never touched a woman without her express consent.

While this is certainly anecdotal, I find the concept of modern porn screwing up relationships about as credible as "Grand Theft Auto Made Me Do It!!!", or blaming Judas Priest for a very screwed up young man comitting suicide.
I never tried to run off a cliff after watching the RoadRunner, either. Go figure.

[Katz]

...
Probably should have realized the effect she has on guys, but I guess a lot of women just don't think about these things.
...

See, that's what I'm not understanding. Those clothes did not buy themselves or put themselves on on her. I mean... seriously. How can you not think about 'these things', when putting them on in front of a mirror?

I mean, it takes a special kind of cloudheadedness to not know this. This doesn't even fall in the realm of common sense. This fall in the realm of "Well, DUH, what did you THINK was going to happen?"

Not saying that they don't have the freedom to do whatever they wish. However, being surprised when the inevitable happens? I'm speechless.



As for the other point, I could see why gothic lolita would not be common sense especially for someone so young. Not blaming her for that, and good thing nothing much happened to her.

[ShiningRadiance]

*Takes off my clothes and goes outside*


Well, I didn't know men have penises and would've raped me! It's all their fault, ever!

[LordJerle]

*Takes off my clothes and goes outside*


Well, I didn't know men have penises and would've raped me! It's all their fault, ever!

I have that as an oblivion mod xD.
You walk around naked, you get raped.  LOL...
3b222d1b-a8be-47ec-ae87-8b31289f8f1d1.03.01

[megamanx]

*Takes off my clothes and goes outside*


Well, I didn't know men have penises and would've raped me! It's all their fault, ever!

sad thing is some women have done that and successfully sued the "assaulter" even though said "assaulter"was just trying to aid her home

[GmanPrime]

Gman, you are a far more verbose and persuasive talker than your namesake, I salute you, and Amoeba, for very good points I hadn't even considered.

Thanks, I always think I post some godawful crap that makes people cringe, its nice someone appreciates it.      To be honest I was tempted to post and then not check the responses (I'm pretty cowardly), but I'm waiting for a video to load so ehh.
 
 

See, that's what I'm not understanding. Those clothes did not buy themselves or put themselves on on her. I mean... seriously. How can you not think about 'these things', when putting them on in front of a mirror?

I mean, it takes a special kind of cloudheadedness to not know this. This doesn't even fall in the realm of common sense. This fall in the realm of "Well, DUH, what did you THINK was going to happen?"

Not saying that they don't have the freedom to do whatever they wish. However, being surprised when the inevitable happens? I'm speechless.

As for the other point, I could see why gothic lolita would not be common sense especially for someone so young. Not blaming her for that, and good thing nothing much happened to her.

Well thats the thing that sets me off a bit too.  I have to remind myself that there really are a lot of women out there that truly don't think about sex appeal that much in clothing.  They want to look cute or attractive but for many of them its simply a matter of whats fashionable or what fits well, and covering up isn't always practical in that sense.  Trying to find a well-fitting outfit for a teen girl for example that's conservative is an exercise in frustration from what I hear.  I've met several trustworthy women who've told me this, so despite what seems like common sense, apparently its difficult to dress conservatively nowadays, and if you grow up in an environment where every other outfit has a short skirt, then perhaps the women learn to just accept that sort of thing.
 
Still, I can't help but think they should know better, and its hard to accept that they aren't trying to manipulate men with the clothing they wear.  I'm sure of course that some women want to be ogled, and may think dressing like a hooker is a way to a guy's heart, but initially all it does is tick me off because of the (somewhat pleasant) distraction and that they are attracting the wrong kind of attention which may end up hurting them in the long run.  It also annoys me because I'd rather not have to fight off five other guys to talk to someone hot, far better for them to cover up so I have a better chance.      Sorry about the rant, but the clothing thing is a pet peeve of mine.

[fixet]

that is why we at M.O.E. (movement of equality) work hard to bring this sort of thing to the general public's attention

us guys dress in tight-fitting clothing, you know the stuff, unbuttoned collar to show off the chest, short sleeves that are tight around the biceps, shirts that are just elastic enough so that they emphasize our muscles and show our abs when we pull them up to "wipe our foreheads"

then, when innocent young girls come over and they're all like: "oooh, can we touch them?", we're all like: "oh, I don't know..." while we're flexing and shit, and then, when they sheepishly reach out for our manly flesh, we scream bloody murder, and sue their socks off for sexual harassment and objectification

sometimes they don't fall for the bait, so we have to provoke them by doing the mc hammer and taunting them with "can't touch this"
never fails

[TF]

I'm afraid I can't agree with the "it's difficult to find conservative clothing" argument. Just because you can't buy a modest skirt or a conservative pair of jeans at Hot Topic, doesn't mean they're not available. I know plenty of young girls who manage not to dress provocatively on a daily basis, they're just not the type of girls who go out to bars or clubs most nights. Now conservative clothing that's *fashionable* is a different argument, but the thing about what is and isn't fashionable is that it's really decided by what the people are actually wearing.

As to rape, I don't think there's clothes a girl can wear that qualify her as "asking for it" short of being crotchless and having arrows pointing down and saying "use these," but unwanted looks and unwanted sex are two very different things.

[ShiningRadiance]

Right. Rape and ogling are different things.


Women should take responsibility for the ogling thing if they know what they're doing. I mean, if you look at yourself in the mirror and see the words "Cum Slut" written on your shirt, you can't be THAT oblivious. That's not oblivious. That's just retarded.

[LordJerle]

Right. Rape and ogling are different things.


Women should take responsibility for the ogling thing if they know what they're doing. I mean, if you look at yourself in the mirror and see the words "Cum Slut" written on your shirt, you can't be THAT oblivious. That's not oblivious. That's just retarded.

That's an actual shirt?

[ShiningRadiance]

That's an actual shirt?

There are shirts like that. Not sure if there's one that actually says that. Definitely the "Slut" part, though.

[Amoeba]

   Its   unfortunate about your step-sister though, I can see why a   thirteen-year old girl is not thinking about fetishes, especially when   those gothic outfits actually reveal a lot less then your average teen   outfit anyways.  It was probably more a matter of some lolicons looking   for a girl to ogle than anything else, but I've never understood the   appeal of fetish fuel all that much myself.  I'm guessing though the   fact she was mute just made the problem worse, you should probably   explain the concept of moe to her before she ends up surrounded by   squeeing guys and her faith in humanity goes down the toilet, if it   hasn't already.
 

    Being mute made things a good bit worse. If I had been just chaperoning   her, I think I could've kept anything from happening, but with her   friends there and her not being able to speak, things didn't go too   well. Noone dragged her off at least. And she knew what moe is, but she   has pretty severe self-esteem and anxiety issues. She didn't think she   qualified.
 
 

As   for the other point, I could see why gothic lolita would not be common   sense especially for someone so young. Not blaming her for that, and   good thing nothing much happened to her.

  Sadly some things did happen. I caught some guy with his hand up her   skirt at one point. Found the fact that somebody would do that rather   shocking, especially since I was standing right next to her at the time.   I'm a big guy, and yet he just ignored the bruiser standing next   to her.
 
 

There are shirts like that. Not sure if there's one that actually says that. Definitely the "Slut" part, though.

*edit* This part didn't show up for some reason. http://t-shirts.cafepress.co.uk/cumslut I've seen women wearing the middle one. I've seen one of said women yelling at a guy staring at her chest.

[DocClox]

I caught some guy with his hand up her   skirt at one point. Found the fact that somebody would do that rather   shocking, especially since I was standing right next to her at the time.   I'm a big guy, and yet he just ignored the bruiser standing next   to her.

There are certain educational techniques you can apply in these cases. Try to leave them so they have some teeth left at the end of the lesson.