Author Topic: Bin Laden's Dead  (Read 12982 times)

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Offline ShiningRadiance

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Offline megamanx

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Re: Bin Laden's Dead
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2011, 02:40:14 AM »
As much as I hate to say it :( , it may be a body double we will know for sure if it was him by the end of the week though
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Offline Xela

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Re: Bin Laden's Dead
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2011, 01:53:03 PM »
Go special forces... And they make a positive DNA match before they actually released the news :)


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Offline Vanreis

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Re: Bin Laden's Dead
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2011, 05:32:53 AM »
The way they did it kinda sucks though. I mean, sending soldiers to foreign country without permission is bad enough but if I remember correctly Pakistan has nuclear weapons. Of course they wont start a war with USA but what kind of message that action sends? "We can do whatever we want"? I think they should remember, world is always watching.

Offline Xela

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Re: Bin Laden's Dead
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2011, 06:56:21 AM »
The way they did it kinda sucks though. I mean, sending soldiers to foreign country without permission is bad enough but if I remember correctly Pakistan has nuclear weapons. Of course they wont start a war with USA but what kind of message that action sends? "We can do whatever we want"? I think they should remember, world is always watching.

 Almost a half of Pakistani Military is at least sympathetic/understanding towards extremists. Osama was living literally on top of the "Sandhurst", a military academy (Comparable by importance for Pakistan  to WestPoint Academy for the U.S.) and a retirement place for many Pakistani officers. He was living there for a very good while...

 I don't think it's a matter if "We can do whatever we want" but a matter of "We must do what we can under the circumstances". I would love the world to be a place where U.S. could coop with Pakistani officials on this mission but I myself have no doubt that as the situation is now, mission would have been a failure if they actually did share intelligence on that level.

 No matter how you look at it. If they didn't know Osama's location at such a high profile spot, they are to incompetent to work with, if they did know any sort of cooperation on this matter is out of question...
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Offline Vanreis

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Re: Bin Laden's Dead
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2011, 04:30:01 PM »
Weird, I heard the place where he has been hiding is a tourist campus or something like that. Well, nevermind. I have a little theory about Osama by the way. What if he was just a "spokesman", face of the extremists, someone who was just supposed to look like the leader while the real one is never seen by anyone outside of the organization? It would only make sense to put some schmuck in front of the camera and draw a target all over him while the real brain is hiding.

Offline Xela

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Re: Bin Laden's Dead
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2011, 06:01:45 PM »
Weird, I heard the place where he has been hiding is a tourist campus or something like that. Well, nevermind. I have a little theory about Osama by the way. What if he was just a "spokesman", face of the extremists, someone who was just supposed to look like the leader while the real one is never seen by anyone outside of the organization? It would only make sense to put some schmuck in front of the camera and draw a target all over him while the real brain is hiding.

 Well, if you believe the experts and U.S. intelligence then he was the leader of Al-Qaeda. The trouble it is a fact that Al-Qaeda had been overshowed by other terrorist cells over the past few years. Another fact is that Al-Qaeda and all other Extremist groups these days have a cell structure and each cell has it's own leader. This way taking off the head even if the head is the brains and not just a figurehead will not hurt the organization in any other significant way then bringing down moral. And they will surely make him into a martyr so the even the moral will not take a serious hit. Another sad news is that at the time of 9/11 Al-Qaeda had less then 1000 operatives. Now their numbers are closer to 100 000 worldwide...

 It was a good day for the whole world and was worthy of celebrations. But it will not be a turning point nor is it a victory.

 And you heard right about the tourist spot, he was living in a really nice mansion few hundreds meters away from the a large military academy that also happens to be a tourist stop on the way to nearby hills or something like that.
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Re: Bin Laden's Dead
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2011, 08:20:10 PM »
I have to agree with Xela. The root cause is that most of the middle eastern countries are ruled by some form of dictator, whether religious, noble, or otherwise, who keeps the population in poverty. People in poverty have little to lose, and a lot of anger. Give them something to hate for their lot in life, and you have an instant army. Al-Qaeda has done a fine job of exploiting this.
Hopefully, (best-case here), future Al-Qaeda leaders will not have quite the charisma, and influence that Bin Laden had, and this organization will wither away over the years.
Any way you cut it, a mass murderer has (finally) been brought to justice.

Offline Xela

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Re: Bin Laden's Dead
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2011, 10:54:39 PM »
 Just one thing I would like to correct here... the problem is not poverty but misinformation. Take Russia for an example, Free internet but still a Vladimir Putin in place as a dictator. Or Iran where the government still manages to hold on to power despite the "middle class" having a satellite dish with access to CNN per family. The best example is probably Syria where there is a pro western middle class is forming while the government manages to hold on to power by funding "brain washing camps for the youth" and committing acts of genocide against peaceful protesters like that in Hama massacre when over 20 000 people were killed while the government decided it was a good idea to wipe out an entire city and actually managed to sell the idea to the general public... No wonder Joseph Goebbels practically had the second spot of importance under the Nazi regime while his government position did not warrant him to such a title...

 Western liberal groups like Humans Rights Watch are not helping either since they defend the rights of terrorists nowadays far better then they actually defend the rights of Human kind. Any reasonable person in my mind would understand that you cannot prescribe the same right to Hamas terrorist who would shoot their own children in cold blood just to make them martyrs so dozens more could take their place and Israeli/U.S. militants who's job is to protect the children of terrorist as well as their own...
 Just keep in mind liberal "The Guardian" newspaper report on civilian casualties in Iraq. 100 000 thousand dead civilians due to US Troops intervention they've reported... Completely forgetting to mention the fact that 60 000 of those casualties were wiped out by Improvised Explosive Devises placed by terrorist and that had nothing to do with US Military at all. Also forgetting to mention that their fellow people (Humans right watch) were going to Saudi Arabia to get extra funding to prove the "atrocities of Israeli Military" against Palestinian people. It is almost funny (If the manner that actually make you cry inside) that liberals seem to swallow almost anything that terrorists are trying to sell them and neglecting almost every bit of information that comes from their own government... I suppose that money is truly rule this world and if you look into it then the western liberal are actually defending the rights of terrorists rather then the actual human right. Think about how the terrorist strategy has changed since the 1990s... You would find that Kaddafi might not even considered placing/forcing civilians in such numbers near the military objects if the watchful eye of the liberal western media was not granting him the same rights that it would grant the coalition while trying to shape the western world opinion into his favor by suggesting that human casualties are not worth the overthrow of the regime in the meanwhile...



 
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Offline Aslan

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Re: Bin Laden's Dead
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2011, 12:05:13 AM »
So much attention for the death of imaginary person...
Maybe no one seen films-investigations about 9/11, and that's why anyone here forgot that Al-Qaeda is the network of U. S. agents in Middle East, that work for the U. S. undercover (and not the terrorist organization). And that's why no one remembers that there's no proofs that Osama bin Laden exist at all. But as the topic develops it doesn't matter  :)

Xela, I totally disagree with you about Russia. Putin is not a dictator (though maybe he will be a dictator in a couple of years), he's just a charismatic man in the top of the goverment. My regrets but Putin has nothing to decide, he's only a "face" of Russian goverment for the Russians (as Medvedev is the face of Russian goverment for the other countries). I live in Russia and I know what I speaking of. But I agree with you about "liberal" groups you mention, they're not helping humans.
U.S. goverment acts as a worldwide policeman and has a support of other countries. Who said that Kaddafi is dictator? USA said, Berlusconi said and some other persons. If Kaddafi is a dictator then why that rebels still fight with him? Why he isn't put an end to this rebellion in a few days? And why the most of population of his country supports not the rebels but Kaddafi?

Sorry if I make any mistakes in English, I don't think that I know it very well.
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Offline Mak

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Re: Bin Laden's Dead
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2011, 12:31:45 AM »
Sorry Xela, you were making sense before, but now you're spouting propaganda and an obvious political stance....which shoots any objective reasoning, "out the window."
 
I don't want to make this tl;dr, so I'll just remind you that most media sources have a political backing/view.
 
Quote
the problem is not poverty but misinformation. Take Russia for an example, Free internet but still a Vladimir Putin in place as a dictator. Or Iran where the government still manages to hold on to power despite the "middle class" having a satellite dish with access to CNN per family. The best example is probably Syria where there is a pro western middle class is forming while the government manages to hold on to power

The same thing is done in the U.S.A. There have been thousands of unfounded attacks on muslims and places of worship despite the fact that the extremists are only a small portion of the people considering the number of worshippers vs. extremists. The ratio is comparable to most groups/religions. Don't get me wrong, if I was an extremist, Islam would be one of my top enemies, but I'm not going to explain my religious or political views. IMHO it's unfortunate he was killed, I think life in a gen. pop. jail would have been more interesting.
 
Upon his death being released, more than 80% of the comments made by non-big-media and personal comments were racist and/or prejudice; when that's the circumstance under which people are celebrating rather than the capture of a mass murderer, how can you even feel pride. The people have merely become what he accused them of publicly and loudly. I'm willing to bet they've already used that to make him a martyr and acts of terrorism will only get more frequent.
 
Sorry for the huge post, but I have Muslim friends, and when they finally get the courage to say they're Muslim, they feel the need to instantly defend or explain themselves, which you don't see in any other religion including Satanism. Do you feel the need to explain your beliefs upon admission of them? They are mostly afraid and ashamed to be associated with the extremists, and comparing them to nazis:
Quote
No wonder Joseph Goebbels practically had the second spot of importance under the Nazi regime while his government position did not warrant him to such a title
is ridiculous because the Nazis believed themselves to be doing the work of christians.
 
Study your facts before spouting things, beginning with 9/11 only what they want you to hear has been released. Look it up, at least 3 of the black boxes were recovered from 9/11, but the contents weren't released, and the official reports said none were found; all of the witnesses of this fact that were on the scene are omitted from the report. Firefighters, rescue workers etc. This fact was confirmed by the FBI if you dig deep enough instead of going by heresay.
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Offline Xela

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Re: Bin Laden's Dead
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2011, 03:33:55 AM »
So much attention for the death of imaginary person...
Maybe no one seen films-investigations about 9/11, and that's why anyone here forgot that Al-Qaeda is the network of U. S. agents in Middle East, that work for the U. S. undercover (and not the terrorist organization). And that's why no one remembers that there's no proofs that Osama bin Laden exist at all. But as the topic develops it doesn't matter  :)

Xela, I totally disagree with you about Russia. Putin is not a dictator (though maybe he will be a dictator in a couple of years), he's just a charismatic man in the top of the goverment. My regrets but Putin has nothing to decide, he's only a "face" of Russian goverment for the Russians (as Medvedev is the face of Russian goverment for the other countries). I live in Russia and I know what I speaking of. But I agree with you about "liberal" groups you mention, they're not helping humans.
U.S. goverment acts as a worldwide policeman and has a support of other countries. Who said that Kaddafi is dictator? USA said, Berlusconi said and some other persons. If Kaddafi is a dictator then why that rebels still fight with him? Why he isn't put an end to this rebellion in a few days? And why the most of population of his country supports not the rebels but Kaddafi?

Sorry if I make any mistakes in English, I don't think that I know it very well.

Hgehe... "films-investigations" as you call them are more commonly called conspiracy theory movies and have nothing in common with the real world. People that enjoy such fiction get erection while watching "Zeitgeist" (No offense intended towards anyone)

 \\\\\\\\\\\\And that's why no one remembers that there's no proofs that Osama bin Laden exist at all.///////////

 These kinds of statements are the direct result of watching "films-investigations". Question... Is there a single national intelligence bureau that denies his existence? Is there a single credited expert that disputes his existence... He is very well researched, his life is well documented and there are plenty of pictures and videos of him post and prior 9/11...

 Now about Putin. I may not live in Russia but I was born and grew up in Russia and I still speak perfect Russian. First thing worth mentioning is that Putin destroyed the Mass Free Media in Russia. Criticism of him or his fellow politicians is not existent on mainstream television. Second he has control of the government as a whole.
 His prolonged rule lead to amazing outbursts like: Дума - это не место для дискуссий? Whichtranslates to: "Congress is not a place for discussions" and sound borderline insane to the free world :)

 "he's just a charismatic man in the top of the goverment" Is not an argument in favor of him not being a dictator... Hitler, Stalin, Zedong were all charismatic men in the top of the government... Putin is the head of the Government, leader of the strongest political party in Russia, he has control of the Judiciary branch and Executive branch of the government. As far as I am concerned he is not a figurehead but an actual leader and with his power pretty much undisputed, he is a dictator!

 "If Kaddafi is a dictator then why that rebels still fight with him? Why he isn't put an end to this rebellion in a few days? And why the most of population of his country supports not the rebels but Kaddafi?" Again... these are not arguments... Stalin was supported by most of his countrymen even though he slaughtered 20 000 000 of his own people in Gulags. Hitler was wildly supported by his countyfolk during the time of his reign... and who the hell told you that most of the population supports Gaddafi? And how much of that population support him because he is willing to run them over with tanks and shell them with heavy artillery/cluster bombs? He has been in power for almost 42 years. He has control of the Mass Media, Judiciary system in Syria simply doesn't exist, at least not by the modern standards, what they call courts are not simply corrupt, they do not even pretend to function as courts at all... They do not even have a constitution. Gaddafi is a modern posterboy for Dictators. In the free world, all media is calling him a dictator, be that liberal, conservative or unbiased media... I have no idea why you think that it extends just to Obama, Berlusconi and some other persons. And why did he not simply put an end to that rebellion in a few days? Because killing people in masses is pretty hard, especially if they are willing to fight back with their lives. Not to mention that Libya is divided in Tribes and not all tribes are friendly with Gaddafi. All and all he did try to end it and he is trying to end it... with a great hunger for blood non the less...

 

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Offline Xela

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Re: Bin Laden's Dead
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2011, 05:51:28 AM »
You seem to be quoting me and then going "Off Base"  ::)

Sorry Xela, you were making sense before, but now you're spouting propaganda and an obvious political stance....which shoots any objective reasoning, "out the window."
 
I don't want to make this tl;dr, so I'll just remind you that most media sources have a political backing/view.
 
The same thing is done in the U.S.A. There have been thousands of unfounded attacks on muslims and places of worship despite the fact that the extremists are only a small portion of the people considering the number of worshippers vs. extremists. The ratio is comparable to most groups/religions. Don't get me wrong, if I was an extremist, Islam would be one of my top enemies, but I'm not going to explain my religious or political views. IMHO it's unfortunate he was killed, I think life in a gen. pop. jail would have been more interesting.
 
Upon his death being released, more than 80% of the comments made by non-big-media and personal comments were racist and/or prejudice; when that's the circumstance under which people are celebrating rather than the capture of a mass murderer, how can you even feel pride. The people have merely become what he accused them of publicly and loudly. I'm willing to bet they've already used that to make him a martyr and acts of terrorism will only get more frequent.
 
Sorry for the huge post, but I have Muslim friends, and when they finally get the courage to say they're Muslim, they feel the need to instantly defend or explain themselves, which you don't see in any other religion including Satanism. Do you feel the need to explain your beliefs upon admission of them? They are mostly afraid and ashamed to be associated with the extremists, and comparing them to nazis:

 I agree with you on the fact that Islamofobia totally sux and is a huge problem and long posts are fine. But why do you follow up with this post after quoting me on the government controlled mass media outlets in Russia, Iran and Syria?

 In all fairness you cannot even begin to compare so called "attacks" on Islam in western world to prosecution of minorities by Muslim states. Women are stoned to death, gays killed and beaten, Christians are forced into living in separate towns and even then being beaten and killed... Some of these things are done by communities and not by extremists. Not mentioning a very questionable record on women rights across all of the Muslim states that have little to do with extremism. The thing is that there is religion and there is how people interpret it. At the dawn of Christianity churches would shut their doors in protest every time their King/Lord would go to war. After some time rulers had enough of that so they invented a concept of "righteous war" since then so many people had been killed in the name of Christianity that Islam Fundamentalists are not even in the same league...

 The trouble is that most westerners are not sure where to place a modern day Muslim, I know some Muslim people as well. Was it ok for him to make his wife to give up a dog she loved because he believed that the beast "befouled" the house. Is it ok that Women rights in Islam are still such an issue and the rights of certain minorities are practically nonexistent...  Islamofobia should have no place in modern society but one can easily see where it comes from other then the actual extremism.

  is ridiculous because the Nazis believed themselves to be doing the work of christians.

 I was making a point that Joseph Goebbels who was the Nazi Propaganda minister was arguably the second/third most important man in the Third Reich pointing while that position does not usually warrant such a high esteem. I was making a point of how important control of mass information is to the regimes... how did you make that about religion is beyond me...

 Nazis believed in what Hitler told them to believe in. And Hitler in my opinion was clinically insane. Nazis also believed in mysticism, supernatural, superiority of "Aryan" race over all others, worldwide Jewish conspiracy and etc... It is interesting how they managed to kill waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more Christians while believing that they were "doing the work of Christians" then the followers of any other religion :(

Study your facts before spouting things, beginning with 9/11 only what they want you to hear has been released. Look it up, at least 3 of the black boxes were recovered from 9/11, but the contents weren't released, and the official reports said none were found; all of the witnesses of this fact that were on the scene are omitted from the report. Firefighters, rescue workers etc. This fact was confirmed by the FBI if you dig deep enough instead of going by heresay.

 I am not a fan of conspiracy theories as you might gather from the previous post.  9/11 report stated that black boxes from flights 77 and 93 were officially recovered, those from 77 were damaged beyond repair and voice data from 93 were released to the families of the victims. If you are going to try and convince me that 9/11 was staged by Jews or US Government, don't waste your time, I'll never buy into that, if you were not planning to then posting a word "fact" before you spouted the bit about 9/11 was pretty low.
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Offline Xela

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Re: Bin Laden's Dead
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2011, 11:05:39 AM »
Guys, please watch the first six/seven minutes of this show... This is priceless  :D

http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episodes/tue-may-3-2011-rachel-maddow
« Last Edit: May 06, 2011, 11:35:48 AM by Xela »
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Offline Ringring

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Re: Bin Laden's Dead
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2011, 12:35:02 PM »
It seems that keeping presidency is hard :)

I found a pic, not sure should I post it here or the facebook thread, maybe this thread is better: