General Discussion

[lamoli]

- Definitely also selling for profit.
- Sure, we already have traits, stats, levels, experience and I've also suggested flags that will provide info about what job/task a girl would be willing to do without objections.
- Yeap, there is always a chance she's a very resistant level 300 buffed up character with maxed out battle stats that got captures just to have some fun and will beat you/security to escape. Girls can already be quite different from one another... we can also obfuscate stats/traits for captured girls until you/trainers spent some time training them, figuring them out. That wouldn't be very difficult.
- Sure, all slaves sold at the market should have full obedience training. Untrained slaves can be bought asking Stan to sell some to you.

Ok will you make a system of slave buyers that randomly or user defined ask a girl type with certain traits acquired using training could be more than 1 offer ( also offer validity could have a time limit ) this could improve gameplay trying to find that type of girl then acquiring her by capture/buy from marked/sold by stan then train her as offer requires then sell her for profit..

For resistance maybe you could make basic items sold at shops while if you need stronger items you could craft em from exploration loot, you could use different lvl range of items that restrains her the stronger the restrain the rarer the crafting components would be to find ( or would require you to somehow beat a monster/npc of really high lvl )
also items that would impair her battle skill to some extend could be useful ( again could use basic version from shop to start with then would need crafting )
might also think about security upgrades.. like special holding cell that can be upgraded with basic upgrades then with crafting and specialized guard jobs to watch out the captive

hidden trait would be awesome.. this is a great option for MC to train a skill to identify the type of girl and he would learn it as he trains those slaves but even without that skill MC could learn that girl stat/trait training her.. might use some verbal sentence to find out about it but would also contribute on breaking her
then the more physical approach like slapping/torture ( doenst have to be harcore .. could use a feather until she reveals some of her hidden stuff and get obedience trained at same time.
also slaves sold by stan could have hidden stats like captured girls unlike slave market full trained slaves and traits skill revealed

this would add the fun of finding out what you inherited lol and train her in a way she could make some profit for you or if her stats match your needs train her to make her work for you

I

am not quite sure that I follow. I think that all items/traits that reduce the maximums should be removed from the game or redesigned just like all items/traits that push minimum out of range were redesigned. Right now there is a good amount of items that when used, reduce the maximum below 0 completely f#cking up some part of the game. Code that would be required to mitigate that is very complicated and would be hard to work with just as it would have been for minimums. I've noticed that after the recent items review.
We could also use real stats instead of stats that have items applied to them for parts of the training (like really important parts, setting final flags and such).

Ok lets forget about - character items on either STATS or MAX real stats are fine

We can use flags and real stats instead of items once for when it really matters. Items could make training itself easier, getting a girl to get to submit could simply require a number of flags (based on traits) and checks vs her true stats instead of item once, once again mitigated by traits/flags. (by flags I mean counter of how many times she undergone specific training sessions successfully). I think that would be a decent approach.

Well would definitely need items to start training the lvl 300 boosted battle girl like proposed on first quote
as for submit lvl .. using obedience lvl could be a first check since every slave should be trained with it then job specific traits the reduce refusal chance even further
ex: slave whore maxed obedience ( first check ) may refuse job because joy too low.. vitality too low or customer class too low or she just doesn't like him..
then goes thr prof trait check like whoremaster ( j/k ) need to think of trait for each jobs those could have ranks to make em even more potent.. this trait lessen even further the chance for her to refuse that kind of job while a free girl not slave trained would refuse right away
mentioned ranks for prof specific traits would increase with successful training sessions

We could add more traits I guess, not sure if that's really required (my hidden flags idea would work better I think).

*Traits/Items are Dark's domain.

then will wait Dark comment..

[Xela]

Ok will you make a system of slave buyers that randomly or user defined ask a girl type with certain traits acquired using training could be more than 1 offer ( also offer validity could have a time limit ) this could improve gameplay trying to find that type of girl then acquiring her by capture/buy from marked/sold by stan then train her as offer requires then sell her for profit..

We should find some sprites for NPCs. System shouldn't be an issue, either random or user defined. I also wanted to start using dark.light alignment with slave training. But we should prolly create the training itself first. We could also have recurring event where NPCs come to the training guild, either asking to train a slave for them or buy some of the already trained once.

For resistance maybe you could make basic items sold at shops while if you need stronger items you could craft em from exploration loot, you could use different lvl range of items that restrains her the stronger the restrain the rarer the crafting components would be to find ( or would require you to somehow beat a monster/npc of really high lvl )
also items that would impair her battle skill to some extend could be useful ( again could use basic version from shop to start with then would need crafting )
might also think about security upgrades.. like special holding cell that can be upgraded with basic upgrades then with crafting and specialized guard jobs to watch out the captive

Irrelevant, we need ST system first, then we can start combining the systems and more importantly, integrate them with the gameflow. Right now even Arena that has been around forever isn't integrated into the gameplay properly and is an isolated system instead.

I like the ideas of helper items, like really large boosts to chances of success in sex training if aphrodisiac is used especially paired with nymphomaniac trait.

hidden trait would be awesome.. this is a great option for MC to train a skill to identify the type of girl and he would learn it as he trains those slaves but even without that skill MC could learn that girl stat/trait training her.. might use some verbal sentence to find out about it but would also contribute on breaking her
then the more physical approach like slapping/torture ( doenst have to be harcore .. could use a feather until she reveals some of her hidden stuff and get obedience trained at same time.
also slaves sold by stan could have hidden stats like captured girls unlike slave market full trained slaves and traits skill revealed

Yeap. A concept for obscuring stats is needed, how and when there revealed and such. But it'll get easier once we have training flags (full access to info for trained slaves and limited access for untrained slaves depending on the amount of flags that they have).

this would add the fun of finding out what you inherited lol and train her in a way she could make some profit for you or if her stats match your needs train her to make her work for you

Yeap. With slavetraining, casanova class should also be more advantageous. Atm it's just a bit of a bonus during interactions + higher charisma/sex stat.

Well would definitely need items to start training the lvl 300 boosted battle girl like proposed on first quote
as for submit lvl .. using obedience lvl could be a first check since every slave should be trained with it then job specific traits the reduce refusal chance even further
ex: slave whore maxed obedience ( first check ) may refuse job because joy too low.. vitality too low or customer class too low or she just doesn't like him..
then goes thr prof trait check like whoremaster ( j/k ) need to think of trait for each jobs those could have ranks to make em even more potent.. this trait lessen even further the chance for her to refuse that kind of job while a free girl not slave trained would refuse right away
mentioned ranks for prof specific traits would increase with successful training sessions

That was an extreme example, I don't think we'll even have girls like that unless under unique events.

Slave stats should be checked vs trainers, like battleskills, charisma, character, intelligence to influence the training.

I'd prefer slaves to agree to do the job under the same premise as a free girl would as long as they have the corresponding flag (willing to do the task). I don't like checking half a dozen stats and traits to figure out if girl wants to do something or not.

No need to overcomplicate things with ranks + traits. Frags as counters will be more than sufficient to track training process and we don't have the resources (time/manpower) to code the jobs checking all of that cr@p. It is not very likely to make training more interesting/iterative either.

[lamoli]

No need to overcomplicate things with ranks + traits. Frags as counters will be more than sufficient to track training process and we don't have the resources (time/manpower) to code the jobs checking all of that cr@p. It is not very likely to make training more interesting/iterative either.

hmm other than breaking her character and training obedience thats all ST will be about then ??

well that and stats boosting by training .. no already in game trait gain doing some training ?
i mean we would need a way to gain traits that are in game to meet demand of potential npc buyers for the slave

[Xela]

hmm other than breaking her character and training obedience thats all ST will be about then ??

Character doesn't need to be broken.

What else do you suggest? A bunch of semi-useless numeric stats that are same/similar for every girls? Progressive traits (basically the same thing). It's been done before and it's always turned into a semi-useless, repetitive systems.

Training should be about figuring girls traits, knowing what item to use and when, knowing when to apply pressure and when to let her rest for a while with the final result as a flag/bunch of flags set to determine if girl refuses/agreed to do specific tasks, either for you or for someone else.

Also, just like with girlsmeets, there should be a way to completely/partially customize the training. I'll take care of that myself, from concept I need general rules for all girls, traits/stats based. Some traits should make training super simple, others very difficult, time consuming. Untrained slaves should be in a limited supply with even a less frequent rotation than the trained once.

System becomes interesting with content, events, interfering elven embassy, some religious crap and etc. There is already a very good game called Otherworld that focuses on numeric progression for 1001 different stats/skills, there is no need for another.

[DarkTl]

Flags... If those flags will be invisible, how can player track any progress here? If he can't, do they matter much? I don't think so. The game is about visible progress (and h-pics  ).

Besides, most of the things lamoli mentioned are not exclusive to slaves. Free girl can become a fake orgasm expert as well, there is no reason why she cannot after a certain experience obtained.
But I cannot call them traits at the same time. Trait is something major and permanent that has multiple checks all over the code.

I recall we discussed possible small skill tree for girls at some point. New suggestions just mean that some of skills at that tree will be available only for slaves.

Right now there is a good amount of items that when used, reduce the maximum below 0 completely f#cking up some part of the game. Code that would be required to mitigate that is very complicated and would be hard to work with just as it would have been for minimums.

Ah jeez, not again. You can't even make decent items without breaking something these days 
Traits can do it too btw. If I'll remove all these cases, it will damage the concept, badly.

[Xela]

well that and stats boosting by training .. no already in game trait gain doing some training ?
i mean we would need a way to gain traits that are in game to meet demand of potential npc buyers for the slave

**Stats, yes.

Traits no, it would mean that any girl could be trained to the satisfaction of any costumer. That's one of the crappiest, most useless (imo) concepts with games that focus on slavetraining... Girls are unique, customers are unique... at least that's my opinion.

*Some traits, yes. Especially since it's already doable with items.

[lamoli]

**Stats, yes.

Traits no, it would mean that any girl could be trained to the satisfaction of any costumer. That's one of the crappiest, most useless (imo) concepts with games that focus on slavetraining... Girls are unique, customers are unique... at least that's my opinion.

ok ic .. would make even more challenging if not impossible to find the girl who has both the the type and trait needed for slave order.. stats dont matter as you can train em
could result in a money sink rather than gain training those slaves for cash,, and with the hidden stats/traits you woulnd event know if you spend zillion of cash or hours training girl for something.. or not

about traits let us train some of em since lots are already locked by existing traits that counters them.. just make sure they unremovable and add a really low chance to gain trait after a training session

i guess you should lock traits from slave bought at market those with non hidden stats/traits.. but stan/captured girls ( if not unique ) should use a system that adds random traits and base stats then if you want to train a trait that isnt blocked by randomly generated trait why not.. you will be randomly limited on what you add but would be able to do some little customization

[lamoli]

hmm could be limited to able to do job better traits..

service...

barmaid ..  skilled to serving drinks
maid...       able to clean efficiently
waitress..  able to serve dinks without spilling it on ppl

unless you already have something that makes em do their job better other that basic service skill stat

[lamoli]

or last resort unique/generated character will have a random hidden trait/flag making em able to do 1 job better than others but with non too severe conflicting traits that would impair the job

[CherryWood]

pushed some pics and mobs that I want to use for fg testing.


now only thing stopping me is that unlock error for new locations


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Also:

"Name Of the MOB": ["Chance to encounter": ["Initial Multiplier", "Per extra day multiplier", "Maximum multiplier"], "Maximum size of a team if one of this mobs is present"]

¨multiplier of what? increasing that chance to encounter?


and also for the mobs stats - what is charisma used for? I have no idea what monster types should have some charisma stat and who don't (what for human? animal? golem?...)




EDIT:----------------------------------------

btw. if you want customer sprites, just tell me, shouldn't be hard for me to create some. (sounds like a fun thing to do)

[Xela]

Flags... If those flags will be invisible, how can player track any progress here? If he can't, do they matter much? I don't think so. The game is about visible progress (and h-pics  ).

Some flags could be revealed during conversation/just setting a girl to work, hence making it a "visible" progress.

Besides, most of the things lamoli mentioned are not exclusive to slaves. Free girl can become a fake orgasm expert as well, there is no reason why she cannot after a certain experience obtained.
But I cannot call them traits at the same time. Trait is something major and permanent that has multiple checks all over the code.

Some traits should be possible to gain during jobs/training. We need to add that btw.

I recall we discussed possible small skill tree for girls at some point. New suggestions just mean that some of skills at that tree will be available only for slaves.

We decided to drop that in favor of traits.

Ah jeez, not again. You can't even make decent items without breaking something these days 
Traits can do it too btw. If I'll remove all these cases, it will damage the concept, badly.

Than we need to expand the concept...

Items have gotten too complicated, they can:

Add a trait permanently
Add a trait temporarily
Track if a trait that was added temporarily doesn't remove a trait that was there permanently when reversed
Add a permanent trait when their is a temporary trait in place
Remove a permanent trait when there is a temporary trait in place
Add stats after being work for x number of turns
Mod stat temporarily
Mod stat permanently
Mod max stat temporarily
Mod max stat permanently
Make sure items do not take stats with them when they are removed if those stats were maxed out already
Make sure that items do not prevent the ability to gain stats while those items are worn

I prolly forgot a bunch of stuff + I doubt all of this is actually used or been properly tested. Traits themselves complicate it all even further...

Basically, the main problem right now are items like Ultimate potions that just send max to a complete sh!thole. Maybe with that removed, nothing else needs to be done... extensive testing required (as in a release, even Jaeke wouldn't be able to test every combination).

If tweaking the ultimate potions isn't enough, we could add level requirement to use an item, making sure higher levels with much higher max will prevent it going below 0. Otherwise I'll have to revisit the the system again, I was a lot less versed in python when it was written than now so there may be something that can be done without too much fuss. But in that case, we should expand the system while I'm at it, I recall you had some ideas for an expansion as well.

[Xela]

ok ic .. would make even more challenging if not impossible to find the girl who has both the the type and trait needed for slave order.. stats dont matter as you can train em
could result in a money sink rather than gain training those slaves for cash,, and with the hidden stats/traits you woulnd event know if you spend zillion of cash or hours training girl for something.. or not

about traits let us train some of em since lots are already locked by existing traits that counters them.. just make sure they unremovable and add a really low chance to gain trait after a training session

i guess you should lock traits from slave bought at market those with non hidden stats/traits.. but stan/captured girls ( if not unique ) should use a system that adds random traits and base stats then if you want to train a trait that isnt blocked by randomly generated trait why not.. you will be randomly limited on what you add but would be able to do some little customization

Why do you assume very limited or fixed demand? We could have a general request agency that is tracking hundreds of clients requests for all types of girls... access to their list = small subscription fee or % of the sale.

We can make a json file with demands for stats, items, traits and traits versus a multiplier for the girls generic market price. Each would have a short description and never be exactly the same as the last one (randomly chosen from a range as I've said). We could also have unique clients and events or even run a shop in the guild offering trained girls at specific prices (generic price + x%) and advertising for a better chance of finding a client. That's interesting and requires very little coding + A LOT OF WORK can be done in just preparing data like we do for items/traits/area/exploration and etc and can be done by someone who can give it enough thought and knows the concept.

Another thing, slaves should also be race related, I'd love it if elven slaves were rare and very hard to come buy due to elven embassy that makes lives of slave trainers/owners of elves really difficult somehow. Somehow is the problem, most ideas I have on that front require a lot of writing/conditioning

Anyway, we can always add something like that later.

[Xela]

hmm could be limited to able to do job better traits..

service...

barmaid ..  skilled to serving drinks
maid...       able to clean efficiently
waitress..  able to serve dinks without spilling it on ppl

unless you already have something that makes em do their job better other that basic service skill stat

or last resort unique/generated character will have a random hidden trait/flag making em able to do 1 job better than others but with non too severe conflicting traits that would impair the job

We already have occupation attribute... barmaid, maid, waitress are all ServiceGirls. We could have different training that just add to service stat I guess. Creating separate stats may be an overkill. Maybe your suggestion with having that as traits would make sense. We had a maid trait once, I am not sure if it's still there.

The second post is very important, I wanted to propose this for a while now, but keep forgetting it. When level is gained, girls advance in their max stats, I think it would make a lot of sense to have the stats relevant to their occupation at time of a level-up advance quicker than the rest. It would make girls more unique!

pushed some pics and mobs that I want to use for fg testing.


now only thing stopping me is that unlock error for new locations


---------
Also:

¨multiplier of what? increasing that chance to encounter?


and also for the mobs stats - what is charisma used for? I have no idea what monster types should have some charisma stat and who don't (what for human? animal? golem?...)




EDIT:----------------------------------------

btw. if you want customer sprites, just tell me, shouldn't be hard for me to create some. (sounds like a fun thing to do)

Kewl, I'll take a look, been typing responses all night instead of writing code

I'll take out the error very soon and push right afterward.

Mobs get more dangerous each day girls spend in exploration. That's what the multipliers are for. Charisma is used for Charm in the battle engine, I've tested the skill some time ago but never added it to the game.

If you have time, sure, some generic NPC sprites would be welcome. Maybe we can start using them even before slave training (selling captured girls).

[Xela]

LoL

"unlocks": {},

This should be an empty container is area doesn't unlock anything

I tried to find something in my code that would override dict to list but couldn't find a thing, problem was with JSON file itself.

I am going to get your changes and push a bit of my own.

[CherryWood]

If you have time, sure, some generic NPC sprites would be welcome. Maybe we can start using them even before slave training (selling captured girls).

lol "generic NPC sprites"
please don't use such vague descriptions. Are we still talking about sm customers right? I'm imagining primary some businessmen and those ugly fatty traders and alike...  or not that?


But the most important questions is about the size - how much of the body needs to be visible. Because the less, the more easier it is to get some (portraits = super easy, full body= almost impossible to find)


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for fg
Thanks for figuring it out


I try to make my location work and send the json in few days.