devolution

Author Topic: General Discussion  (Read 3821824 times)

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Offline MuteDay

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #4170 on: December 29, 2014, 02:42:39 AM »
I might also give ya some programs if you can get me a list of features you need
Please Enjoy all the hard work i Do to help make the game and forums a better place :)

Offline DarkTl

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #4171 on: December 29, 2014, 05:20:42 AM »
Nah, I can code it myself. I'm just not sure if I should.

If you want to help with coding, get yourself familiar with the game code. It's not easy, I keep asking Xela to write a complex quest with detailed comments so that anyone could understand how to make basics, but to no avail so far  :)

If you don't know where to start, try to understand how items system works. Then you will be able to help us to improve it.

Offline Xela

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #4172 on: December 29, 2014, 06:56:39 AM »
Nah, I can code it myself. I'm just not sure if I should.

Do you want me to finish the Ren'Py tagger? Please decide if you're going to finish the Delphi one...

Nah, I can code it myself. I'm just not sure if I should.


If you want to help with coding, get yourself familiar with the game code. It's not easy, I keep asking Xela to write a complex quest with detailed comments so that anyone could understand how to make basics, but to no avail so far  :)

I am going to start writing a special label today, showing off some of the options and leaving comments. I did tell you to take a look at the frog quest, didn't I? It has plenty of examples and is perfectly valid as a complex quest.

If you don't know where to start, try to understand how items system works. Then you will be able to help us to improve it.

Improve how... It's already very good, noone ever complained about items. We need to adapt items, traits and character to the skills system.
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #4173 on: December 29, 2014, 08:10:21 AM »
I don't know. Living promised us a tagger, remember? I just wrote a tool for sorting  ::)
Maybe he will apply algorithms that I developed too.

Anyway, you should take a look at tags for a start, maybe you disagree with something there.


We discussed flaws of the current items system like 3 times already, it becomes anecdotal. Let me know when you actually will be ready to change the code there, not just talk about it  :D

Offline Xela

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #4174 on: December 29, 2014, 08:51:07 AM »
Anyway, you should take a look at tags for a start, maybe you disagree with something there.

I have, it seems fine.

We could start all tagging with two tags:

nsfw
clean

and than work up unfolding relevant categories.

We discussed flaws of the current items system like 3 times already, it becomes anecdotal. Let me know when you actually will be ready to change the code there, not just talk about it  :D

I forgot all three times :(

Tell me what you believe that needs to be changed. Thewlis can do that as well, the thing is that I am happy with the system as it stands and never heard anything to the contrary during the Alpha release from players (not once). If you want something specific done, write what and how exactly and Thewlis or I will take care of it.

Otherwise I have no idea what to do there other than maybe make a better drag/drop interface.

*I am aware that out auto-buy and auto0equip systems no longer work properly with the new skills systems but it's not hard to adapt and it would really help if you/CW adjusted the files to skills so it could be tested while being developed.
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #4175 on: December 29, 2014, 01:00:54 PM »
We could start all tagging with two tags:

nsfw
clean
It's more complicated. There are cases when all or almost all pictures are nsfw because it's natural for the character according to the source. One of the best examples is my slime rmg pack, you can take a look.
Either we need a separate tag for it, or use both of them at the same time.

Offline Xela

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #4176 on: December 29, 2014, 01:06:42 PM »
It's more complicated. There are cases when all or almost all pictures are nsfw because it's natural for the character according to the source. One of the best examples is my slime rmg pack, you can take a look.
Either we need a separate tag for it, or use both of them at the same time.

nsfw I prolly should have explained. It should only contain pictures with explicit nudity and/or sexual/bondage content.

There shouldn't be any packs without normal pics... and even if they are, these two tags would still be a good way to start any tagging process.

*You asked what I thought was missing, imo it's this.

=================
I am trying to make a guide but it's going slowly, apparently I forgot how to manage some stuff in Ren'Py script myself :D Back on track now... for now there will be a guide on how to show imaged in VN and get character to speak...
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #4177 on: December 29, 2014, 01:39:43 PM »
Oh, by the way, if you'd like, I can supply some pictures and/or music for this project as well.
You know, we always could use more pictures for backgrounds, both indoors and outdoors.
They should have high enough resolution (at least 1024x768, but more is better).

The problem is that you cannot use google pictures, deviantart and g.e-hentai, because we already have all that they can give.

nsfw I prolly should have explained. It should only contain pictures with explicit nudity and/or sexual/bondage content.

There shouldn't be any packs without normal pics... and even if they are, these two tags would still be a good way to start any tagging process.
That bothers me for some time. All my packs have at least some safe pictures. But if we tag all nude ones as nsfw ones because they are from our point of view, there will be only a few safe pictures, ie little diversity. And we can't really tag them as safe too.

There are special cases (monsters or androids) when nude body is natural and common because they cannot wear clothers, or on the contrary when a nude body is safe for work from our point of view.

The latter case is safe+without clothes tags. But I'm not sure what to do with the first one. Should we agree with little diversity or use a special tag for them? I don't know.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2014, 02:04:35 PM by DarkTl »

Offline Xela

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #4178 on: December 29, 2014, 02:17:57 PM »
We must approach the problems from common perspective. Without a denominator, we can't work a game like this.

Special cases are just that, special. There is always a few clean pics out there. Even if there isn't, we can leave some characters out of the game.
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Offline livingforever

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #4179 on: December 29, 2014, 03:31:16 PM »
Yo!
Just checking in to confirm that I'm still alive, although I got nearly nothing done for this project in the past month (sorry for that, I know everyone has other priorities but I really didn't do much recently).
As for the near future, I have two important projects open, but they should both be concluded by mid january.

And @DarkTI:
Effort is almost never a bad thing, so yeah, good job for doing something (unlike me), but I have everything you listed so far already implemented (platform independant) - except for a simple purge procedure, which should be a matter of minutes.

Merry Christmas and a happy New Year!
« Last Edit: December 29, 2014, 03:35:11 PM by livingforever »

Offline Xela

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #4180 on: December 29, 2014, 05:53:47 PM »
Happy NewYears :)

I made a simple and very well commented tutorial on how to add content to PyTFall. For now it's just the basics like getting to VN sprites, writing texts, moving sprites around, handling menus, setting up flags, storing variables, showing backgrounds and clearing screens. Some other stuff like difference between call/jump and different scripts used in the game is also very, very well explained. Feel free to fix grammar/spelling/code errors and/or add stuff to it, anything that anyone can contribute like new events, quests, well commented examples on handing items/skills/stats/traits, adding NPCs, battle scenarios and etc are more than welcome :)

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Offline DarkTl

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #4181 on: December 30, 2014, 10:39:33 AM »
Happy New Year!

I made a simple and very well commented tutorial on how to add content to PyTFall.
I'll check it, thanks.

Effort is almost never a bad thing, so yeah, good job for doing something (unlike me), but I have everything you listed so far already implemented (platform independant) - except for a simple purge procedure, which should be a matter of minutes.
Cool! I was kinda bored, and coding for yourself is fun, so I spent a couple of evenings on it, meanwhile I found out how case sensitive the game is during reading tags from filenames (not a good thing, really).
« Last Edit: December 30, 2014, 11:01:25 AM by DarkTl »

Offline DarkTl

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #4182 on: December 30, 2014, 11:20:24 AM »
Alright, items.
1) I'll need to adapt them to new skills system, I know. But before that...
2) Non-weapon types of weapons, like the famous dildo sword. And various limitations, like no big weapons for peacful occupations, except Non-weapon ones. I recall you wanted to implement it, but I don't remember if you did.
3) Loot items. Same here, I recall you wanted to implement them, but you never mentioned here that you did.
4) Items that cannot be unequipped by girls once you managed to equip them. Like shackles and stuff. Very useful for ST.
5) Sex toys. Like, you know, plugs and vibrators. SM3 uses them a lot. The problem is, you can wear them no matter what, so we probably need new slots for them.

I think you (or admins?) deleted old threads where we discussed problems with items tracking. Nevermind, I'll try to formulate a better concept for items.

Offline Xela

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #4183 on: December 30, 2014, 03:46:52 PM »
2) Non-weapon types of weapons, like the famous dildo sword. And various limitations, like no big weapons for peacful occupations, except Non-weapon ones. I recall you wanted to implement it, but I don't remember if you did.

I did, there should be a guide (simple rule) on how to implement that somewhere. If we can't find it, I'll write a new one, it should be really simple.

3) Loot items. Same here, I recall you wanted to implement them, but you never mentioned here that you did.

I didn't (or at least not properly), I did post that I'll do this after next release. Gold drops will do for now.

*It should be noted that they don't really require extra items code, just content and logic (like a place to see them, making sure that they are filtered, cannot be equipped and etc.).

4) Items that cannot be unequipped by girls once you managed to equip them. Like shackles and stuff. Very useful for ST.

You know as well as I that PyTFall is not SM or Valet. You can't expect to be able to equip any character with an item like that because many characters are free. Forcing a free girl to be equipped with such item in the middle of Fighters Guild or even brothel with other characters present must carry consequences that depend on characters, location, strength, traits and other sh!t like that. It's too messy and too much.

Otherwise, I believe that Thewlis already made some items like that for ST. They add new traits that modify behavior and runaway chances during training. Slaves cannot manage their inventories anyway so they cannot unequip anything...

In any case, this sounds like ST thing. It's a whole different discussion and not relevant to items code.

5) Sex toys. Like, you know, plugs and vibrators. SM3 uses them a lot. The problem is, you can wear them no matter what, so we probably need new slots for them.

At least partly, this is also about behavior and influence in the world. I doubt that warriors should be able to fight at 100% with a large dildo up their butts. I have these concerns about some items already, so I really don't feel like adding more to that list.

*Once again: "SM uses them a lot" == SM is a game with a more limited concept/environment. I am slightly intoxicated atm but this seems like something we need to consider before implementing... it may require too many flags and if/elif forks for this to make sense in the game as a whole.

I think you (or admins?) deleted old threads where we discussed problems with items tracking. Nevermind, I'll try to formulate a better concept for items.

Nothing has been deleted. It's either archived or still there as the original thread.
================================================================================================

Out items concept is better than decent, it's good... We have so much on the plate and so much planned already and you want to advance it now??? I can't understand why :(

We'll have to review it after we're done with ST and SE, in my mind, at least twice:

1) When we have agreed on final format of battles so we can integrate weapons + items usable during battles.
2) When/If we include crafting into the game.

3+) If after 1.0 release, we decide not to drop this and work on a new design, we may decide to simple make items system more interesting/interactive/DragDrop and etc.

* My two points are:

- Items system that we have now is very good for it's purpose.
- We'll have to review it in not so distant future.
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #4184 on: December 31, 2014, 02:01:43 AM »
You can't expect to be able to equip any character with an item like that because many characters are free.

Slaves cannot manage their inventories anyway so they cannot unequip anything...
I mean slaves only, of course.
So even if you have a 100% loyal slave that works for you for years, you still cannot allow her to manage her own inventory as she likes? Isn't it an overkill?

Perhaps it would be better to lock/unlock slots though. So that player decides which slots trained slave can manage by herself and which cannot.

I also remind you about our recent discussion that you can take untrained slaves to other places as long as they have a special collar equipped. Meaning that even player cannot remove it anytime and anywhere.
this seems like something we need to consider before implementing... it may require too many flags and if/elif forks for this to make sense in the game as a whole.
Yup, I'm not sure myself how to handle it.
At very least it should be possible to use on slaves (you cannot and shouldn't really know if free girls use toys or not, realistically). So perhaps it should be slaves-only items slots, or even flags of some kind.

Nothing has been deleted. It's either archived or still there as the original thread.
Search cannot find my own posts that I clearly remember. Perhaps something is wrong with it then.

We have so much on the plate and so much planned already and you want to advance it now??? I can't understand why
I dropped some ideas during initial development, but I didn't forgot about them. An example, lingerie. In wm both lingerie and armor/dress use the same slot (and this is ridiculous). I excluded lingerie because I wasn't sure how to implement it the best way.
I'll wait for BE items review, alright.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2014, 02:26:04 AM by DarkTl »