Author Topic: General Discussion  (Read 3821834 times)

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Offline Xela

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #4185 on: December 31, 2014, 03:47:15 AM »
I mean slaves only, of course.
So even if you have a 100% loyal slave that works for you for years, you still cannot allow her to manage her own inventory as she likes? Isn't it an overkill?

Perhaps it would be better to lock/unlock slots though. So that player decides which slots trained slave can manage by herself and which cannot.

I also remind you about our recent discussion that you can take untrained slaves to other places as long as they have a special collar equipped. Meaning that even

Well, I don't remember if it's possible but I may have left an option to enable slaves managing inventories...

Maybe... I'll think about locking/unlocking slots.

It was not decided (hopefully), I still hate the idea and believe that all untrained slaves should have limited movement... going to think about that a bit when my head is clearer :)

I also remind you about our recent discussion that you can take untrained slaves to other places as long as they have a special collar equipped. Meaning that even player cannot remove it anytime and anywhere.Yup, I'm not sure myself how to handle it.
At very least it should be possible to use on slaves (you cannot and shouldn't really know if free girls use toys or not, realistically). So perhaps it should be slaves-only items slots, or even flags of some kind.

I told you that I don't like ANY special equipment or clothing for slaves to be work in public. It should be forbidden by law in fear of them finding out how numerous they actually are.

Slaves shouldn't be completely under your control as well... it's not realistic either. No idea, we can add a slot for sex toys/lingerie (pointing out that those items are worn whenever appropriate) as you suggest but I (and hopefully we) don't really want a mess of slots either.

I dropped some ideas during initial development, but I didn't forgot about them. An example, lingerie. In wm both lingerie and armor/dress use the same slot (and this is ridiculous). I excluded lingerie because I wasn't sure how to implement it the best way.
I'll wait for BE items review, alright.

Yeah... try to double that to our items thread. It will at the very least be easier to find in the future!

======
We need to review training (Schools), Jobs, items, traits and other checks to work with new skills system... maybe Thewlis can take care of schools and ST, I'll do the jobs/any events and you/CW can take out items/traits?

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Offline DarkTl

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #4186 on: December 31, 2014, 04:36:22 AM »
I told you that I don't like ANY special equipment or clothing for slaves to be work in public. It should be forbidden by law in fear of them finding out how numerous they actually are.
Nah, I countered this argument before. Special equipment is for untrained slaves only, and it shouldn't be super visible either.

Slaves shouldn't be completely under your control as well... it's not realistic either
Yeah, that's a tough choice. Either to allow them to run away sometimes (checks everywhere), use special equipment with major penalties to prevent running away (not realistic, but simple), or exclude them from everything unless training is completed (boring).
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I have some ideas about centralized, less chaotic traits system, though I wonder how many players would oppose the idea of using japanese terms to describe characters. If we need to disassemble ~dere traits [irony]and use simple, short words only[/irony], then the whole current traits checks system is useless.

Offline Xela

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #4187 on: December 31, 2014, 08:23:55 AM »
Nah, I countered this argument before. Special equipment is for untrained slaves only, and it shouldn't be super visible either.

Right... it's still an ST issue more than items one.

I have some ideas about centralized, less chaotic traits system, though I wonder how many players would oppose the idea of using japanese terms to describe characters. If we need to disassemble ~dere traits [irony]and use simple, short words only[/irony], then the whole current traits checks system is useless.

For the last 5 month I've felt trapped by concepts we took from different games and overcomplicated logic in use right today as a result or simply a consequence of our own choices.

Trying really hard to avoid the trap, looks like we've, at least partly, failed to fall into the same trap as OW (and many other games). Which is improving stuff that already works well instead of making new and interesting content.

I don't think a system like WM traits should be used in PyTFall because (for example) a trait like MindBroken (Insane) and BigBoobs cannot stand side by side as one completely breaks and changes all jobs, events and interactions and then other is fairly mundane... MindBroken should by the way be removed from the game, it's too costly to work with in development terms. It's also VERY hard to keep track of during development, at least for me.

I've had a development epiphany when writing examples demo couple of days ago, that in two years we haven't created one events using quest sprites (old Tifa meeting script was removed), something that I've felt is going to be one of the best trump cards of PyTFall when compared to other (similar) games. Instead we're working on improving systems/logic that worked just fine for all our purposes... stats, items, traits, skills, tags... none of these has failed us during Alpha release.

=================
I'll fully support you if you decide to kill traits system and come up with a more manageable variant of it, as long as it's the last time we do this... I cannot believe that a lot of players would oppose Japanese names as long as it's well documented. Also we should move body-traits off main traits system, personality should not be considered a perfect fit either (it cannot be done in game of our size and for the amount of characters we have. Also many thing can be straightened out with unique content). Also an option exists to borrow simpler personality types from AA for example.

Other stuff, like Kleptomaniac that doesn't really define the character should be moved to simpler flags system and used accordingly.

*Other option is to leave the system as it is and work with what we have but remove game-breaking traits like MindBroken. It more or less works and will work in the future. There is already plenty of content written for them as well that would not have to be changed. We can also logically split trait groups in code. This is something you must decide because like it or not, you'll have to do most of the work adapting the content. If this was up to me atm, I would have left everything as it is and started to work on more important stuff because I cannot take stalling development for "better" logic any longer :(
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Offline Xela

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #4188 on: December 31, 2014, 09:37:24 AM »
I've updated examples file a bit, fixing some mistakes and adding a couple more explanations. Doesn't look that I can get anything else done tonight :)

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Offline DarkTl

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #4189 on: December 31, 2014, 10:27:16 AM »
MindBroken should by the way be removed from the game, it's too costly to work with in development terms. It's also VERY hard to keep track of during development, at least for me.
Here we go, cutting good content from the game  ::)
That's not how you do it. Let's be realistic, you would never allow an insane girl to work with customers or fight at arena alone, unless you are insane as well. At least yandere could be controlled to some point, unlike insane ones without a mind as such. Remember JoNT, when you break girls completely, they become almost worthless.

I believe they can follow only the simplest orders, they cannot even be decent cleaners because they could break stuff for example. They should not have high ranks available, and skills/stats should grow very slowly. I guess you don't even have to pay them much, though they should be unable to feed themselves if you don't pay them, so they will die quickly.

Basically, we don't need to track them too much or write many events for them, because they are not persons. Many things should be simply unavailable to them, including normal conversations. In fact, they should be ignored by almost all systems, unless said otherwise.

Now, why we cannot just remove all this and forget about it forver?
- There are a lot of insane characters. Destroying this option will leave them out of the game forever.
- We cannot really use major physical deformities for many reasons. But at least we can use madness to make characters useless when needed.
- This is one of consequences of too excessive slave training in WM and JoNT, and in our case probably too. No madness means permissiveness.
- I expect mind controlling system at some point. WM developers originally wanted to add it, and it's an interesting idea. So behavior of controlled characters is very similiar to insane ones.
* Note that by insane I mean mindless and indifferent, not dangerously unpredictable.

*Other option is to leave the system as it is and work with what we have but remove game-breaking traits like MindBroken. It more or less works and will work in the future.
Like you said, traits are alien concept for our game. I agree completely, we just didn't have a choice when we began development. Creating detailed concepts for months before even starting to code is a bad idea for pure indie projects, like I've seen many times before.

Moreover, I feel like using separate body slots (ie gloves+armor/dress+boots) is a bad idea. How ofter people wear running shoes with evening dress? Probably never.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2014, 10:44:26 AM by DarkTl »

Offline Xela

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #4190 on: December 31, 2014, 12:29:18 PM »
Here we go, cutting good content from the game  ::)
That's not how you do it. Let's be realistic, you would never allow an insane girl to work with customers or fight at arena alone, unless you are insane as well. At least yandere could be controlled to some point, unlike insane ones without a mind as such. Remember JoNT, when you break girls completely, they become almost worthless.

I believe they can follow only the simplest orders, they cannot even be decent cleaners because they could break stuff for example. They should not have high ranks available, and skills/stats should grow very slowly. I guess you don't even have to pay them much, though they should be unable to feed themselves if you don't pay them, so they will die quickly.

Basically, we don't need to track them too much or write many events for them, because they are not persons. Many things should be simply unavailable to them, including normal conversations. In fact, they should be ignored by almost all systems, unless said otherwise.

Now, why we cannot just remove all this and forget about it forver?
- There are a lot of insane characters. Destroying this option will leave them out of the game forever.
- We cannot really use major physical deformities for many reasons. But at least we can use madness to make characters useless when needed.
- This is one of consequences of too excessive slave training in WM and JoNT, and in our case probably too. No madness means permissiveness.
- I expect mind controlling system at some point. WM developers originally wanted to add it, and it's an interesting idea. So behavior of controlled characters is very similiar to insane ones.
* Note that by insane I mean mindless and indifferent, not dangerously unpredictable.

JoNT is also a very limited concept... I wonder what happens when you put a broken girl as an assistant there, will she do the job (special assistant texts/events)? Did Huntsman include an if fork at least for that?

We can also remove it and forget about it forever and still have a great game. I don't believe that I can recall a single insane character I would miss. Indifferent is not what I meant with Insane/MindBroken.

*********
Read through your post carefully, in order to keep them in the game we have to:
- Adjust jobs to them (per job! and often per job event!) or prevent them from being assigned
- Same thing for the Arena
- Track their worth based on it
- Modify stats/skills development and have special limits for them
- Come up with a routine that must happen if a high ranked girl becomes insane (I am not sure how to handle that within all the rest of relevant logic)
- Have special reactions of clients where appropriate
- Have special upkeep routines (not able to feed themselves), possibly leading to death
- Have special cases for girlsmeets (we already have a few)

= What do you mean by "ignore them" more specifically? Because I have no clue what you mean here. Not show them in girlslists? That is the same as not having them in the game. Not allow to assign jobs so they are resting all the time? Not allowing to send them to schools? Not to take them to the city in players team? That all requires checks and a lot of checks. All over the (tens) thousands of lines of code that we have in the game. Also during the content... I want to write an event that takes place with the girls that are available in an area (for girlsmeets), that's why I mentioned it actually... I also wanted to write an event for the team members that are on players team near the beach (go swimming for random events and constitution bonuses). There are no traits that f*ck those up nearly as much as "insane" traits :(

It's almost impossible to write random content for the game if you need to think about stuff like that all the time. Same with slaves that can runaway and you could potentially place on your team... functions with checks would be requires, if/else forms with special cases texts even for simple events.

In my mind having it in the game such as ours is absurd... and I think that my arguments are perfectly logical and valid because I cannot see what we're getting out of messing with all of that extra, messy and intrusive code? A couple of insane characters inside of a game world that should be "ignored"???

Is it not better to create them as full characters and put them in as NPCs with special events in some asylum or something like that? I just can't figure out why a reasonable person argues in favor of putting so much work and messy code for the sake of something that I cannot even find a use for in the game :(

Like you said, traits are alien concept for our game. I agree completely, we just didn't have a choice when we began development. Creating detailed concepts for months before even starting to code is a bad idea for pure indie projects, like I've seen many times before.

Agreed... how do you want to handle it and when? I'd once again suggest that we release next version with current traits system since it's well integrated into the game and recoding the whole thing will take a long time.

We can open a new thread and come up with a concept for whatever we replace traits with there and code it in after the next release.

Moreover, I feel like using separate body slots (ie gloves+armor/dress+boots) is a bad idea. How ofter people wear running shoes with evening dress? Probably never.

Yeah, but it's not really new in PyTFall. Many games allow that and are great in every aspect.
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Offline livingforever

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #4191 on: December 31, 2014, 06:33:10 PM »
I feel like this is a very important quote:
* Note that by insane I mean mindless and indifferent, not dangerously unpredictable.
You're talking about two different kinds of insane. I tend to agree with Xela's definition, mindless isn't insane, it's mindless.
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Offline Xela

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #4192 on: December 31, 2014, 07:37:29 PM »
Shift+O for console.

Code: [Select]
for i in traits:
    devlog.info("%s: %s" % (i, traits[i].desc))

INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Collected: This girl is able to stay calm and composed under most circumstances.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Merciless: Once she starts, she doesn't stop. No matter what.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Not Human: This girl is not human.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Lucky: Sometimes the Universe just seems to be on her side.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Broken: Her spirit was broken during obedience training.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Disobedient: She has been very disobedient during her training lately.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Professional Maid: Dirt and disorder don't stand a chance against her skills!
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Restrained: She has been restrained to prevent her from running away.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Former Assassin: This girl has had training to kill - just name a price.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Shy: She is nervous and afraid to speak her mind sometimes.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Fragile: This girl is fragile and gets hurt or tired easily.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Adventurer: This girl loves adventures.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Magic Gift: There is a little spark of magic within her soul.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Sadistic: She enjoys inflicting pain, or watching it inflicted.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Tomboy: She is boisterous and wild, but sometimes she is charming in her own way.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Long Legs: The legs on this girl go all the way to heaven.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Mind Fucked: This girl is gone in the head. She will be compliant with anything.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Clumsy: This girl often makes mistakes. Maybe she will learn in time.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Curious: This girl is very inquisitive.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Easy to Reward: She is carrying equipment that makes it easier to reward her.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Half-Sister: This girl has one parent in common with you
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Combat Training: This girl has been trained to fight with a weapon of some sort.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Malicious: If there is a way to do harm to someone, she will find it.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Ill-mannered: This girl is rude, arrogant and bossy under most circumstances.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Unlucky: Anything that can go wrong will go wrong.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Obedient: She has been very obedient during her training lately.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Strict Morals: She upholds and lives by high moral standarts.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Protective: This girl is quite caring, parential and emotionally mature.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Energetic: This girl is very active and vigorous.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Extremely Jealous: She is very possessive and can't stand the thought of any competition.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Lesbian: This girl prefers women to men.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Easy to Punish: She is carrying equipment that makes it easier to punish her.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Kind: She is happy as long as she is able to help to anyone.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Meek: She is really soft and meek.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Impersonal: Almost completely devoid of emotion, mainly relying on logic.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Average Boobs: Her boobs are somewhere in the B-C cup range. Any classy guy will say that this is the ideal size.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Old Scars: This poor girl has some scars.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Exhibitionnist: She doesn't hide anything. At least physically.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Serious: This girl doesn't joke around.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Pervert: This girl is seriously nasty.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Magic Talent: This girl has very strong powers within her body. Be careful you don't give her too much trouble.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Bisexual: This girl considers herself a bisexual.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Abnormally Large Boobs: One wonders how she keeps her balance. Those things are like miniature moons...
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Alien: This girl has come from a distant dimension with absolutely other laws of physics, magic and society.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Tsundere: A person with a conceited, irritable, and, or violent personality who suddenly becomes modest and loving when triggered by some sort of cause.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Small Boobs: Her boobs may be small, but some people like that.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Big Boobs: This girl really has knockers.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Genius: Her mind is her strongest and ultimate weapon.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Sexy Air: Something about this girl is just so sexy. Everything she does is hot.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Smart: This girl has more brains than an average citizen for sure.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Outgoing: She is a natural born leader, negotiator, diplomat, and fast talker.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Fearless: She doesn't fear anything. Usually.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Iron Will: She is incredibly headstrong and stubborn.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Broken Will: This girl's will is broken and she is completely obedient.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Strange Eyes: Her eyes are unusual in some way.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Edgy: This girl is very cowardly and jumpy.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Silly: When it comes to brain work, she usually takes her time.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Retarded: This girl is mentally retarded.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Great Figure: This girl has a really good figure.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Athletic: This girl is tough and has trained a lot. Her body is in great shape.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Dandere: A person who is normally quiet and silent, to the point of coming across as emotionless at times, because of extreme social aloofness.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Elegant: She's got style and flair, every single movement of her perfectly gracious.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Pessimist: All it takes is one thing to send her mood down into the pits of the abyss.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Manly: This girl is very muscular. Perhaps even too muscular.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Aggressive: You'd better don't mess with her, or else...
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Kleptomaniac: She cannot resist taking a souvenir from every new place she visits.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Lolita: This girl looks very young for her age.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Psychic: This girl always seems to know what people want.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Great Arse: She has a really nice arse.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Artificial Body: This girl's body is not alive or real, it is a machine or has been created with magic.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Virgin: This girl has never had sex before.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Nymphomaniac: This girl loves the sex, but will have to learn to let the guy have his moment.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Noble: This girl comes from a notable family.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Famous: She is well known around.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Always Hungry: There is never enough for this girl's appetite.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Frigid: She mostly doesn't care about sex. It is waste of time, isn't it?
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Well-mannered: This girl is polite, courteous and respectful to others under most circumstances.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Masochist: She gets sexual gratification from pain, deprivation, degradation, etc.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Yandere: A person who is initially very caring and gentle to someone they really like and care for a lot before their romantic devotion becomes mentally destructive in nature through violence or brutality.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Kuudere: A person who is cold, blunt and emotionless on the outside, but actually caring and nice on the inside.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay MILF: This woman has had children before.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Sensitive: This girl's body is very delicate and responsive to stimulation.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Optimist: She is very cheerful and is rarely in a bad mood. She enjoys what she does, a lot.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Tough: This girl is tough. She can withstand many attacks.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Dawdler: This girl is certainly takes her time.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Dependant: This girl is rather dependant on other people for survival.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Loner: She likes being alone, and doesn't need other people around her to validate her own existence.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Heavy Drinker: She just can't hold her liquor.
INFO     PyTFall 0.51 Slaver's Bay Nerd: Bookish and unsocial, but overly intellectual.

In red is what I meant. MindFucked has a weird description, practically the same as for the green trait, I thought we had a completely different meaning for it.

In short, I dislike all traits that do not leave a chance of normal behavior during events/jobs and severely mess with code/game! We've already discussed traits that basically mean a certain stats value (high/low) as compared to other characters in the game (like genius).
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #4193 on: January 01, 2015, 05:17:58 AM »
Well, we cannot really use truly insane characters apart from yandere, because they should be unpredictable, ie have multiple unusual reactions for any possibe check. Now this is something we cannot afford indeed.

If we take a look at WM (where we took most of our traits from), girls could be broken after long enough training in the dungeon. But in order to lost mind they should be trained in the dungeon with low health (I don't remember, less than 20 I think) for some time. Basically be under torture near death.
As result, they don't just become insane or broken, more like they lose personality completely. I'd say they become living dolls, even more than actual dolls/androids, because Impersonal characters have logic at least.
Its description doesn't reflect its meaning properly, I agree.

JoNT is also a very limited concept... I wonder what happens when you put a broken girl as an assistant there, will she do the job (special assistant texts/events)? Did Huntsman include an if fork at least for that?
You can't do it of course. They don't have a mind, this would be ridiculous.

= What do you mean by "ignore them" more specifically? Because I have no clue what you mean here.
Ok, I can explain why do I think that mindless state is useful.

- There are truly insane characters, not even yandere. We cannot use them such as they are (too much work), but we can tell that their mind finally collapsed, and they became like this. In fact, I already did it in some packs.

- There should be one main trait that describes character personality and excludes all other main traits. It's quite simple really, characters are not that complex anyway. It could be tsundere or indifferent. Or it could be mindless.
Mindless is something like neutral elemental in our magic system.

- Mindless is not an absolutely permanent state. Via quests or items, or after some time girl's personality may return. Note that her old personality (if existed) is lost forever, so the new personality will be random. That's how I want it, at least.

- If you overdo with slave training, what should happen if you don't have a mindless trait? Death every time? Because there is no an alternative, really.

- Characters cannot lose a limb or get a huge scar, images don't support it. So far they can only die, no middle ground. Mindless is the middle ground.

Even if you don't want a mindless trait, we need a mindless state of some kind anyway for some of the cases above.

Now to reduce the number of checks, I propose:
- perhaps create another class for them? And move characters between classes when needed? I don't know if renpy supports it.
- no jobs for them. Only MC (and other girls in the future) can interact with them. Ie try to talk, have sex, go on a date (it's not really a date without a mind, more like walking).
- no leveling or increasing stats without a mind. Worth = charisma, like in JoNT. In theory, you could buy a mindless slave, heal her and sell for more even without training.

Btw it's a great way to influence MC's alignment. If you pick up mindless characters, feed them and help them to heal, you are a good guy. If you rape them like there is no tomorrow, enslave and sell them, you are a bad guy.
And of course there should be events when characters lose ranks. This is just another one of them.

Yeah, but it's not really new in PyTFall. Many games allow that and are great in every aspect.
I feel like it would be better to have more armors/dresses than have three parts of every armor/dress. And use other slots for lingerie and toys instead of boots and gloves.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2015, 05:19:59 AM by DarkTl »

Offline Xela

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #4194 on: January 01, 2015, 06:59:08 AM »
...

I kinda understand what you're saying but still can't see added gameplay value vs effort benefit.

Even if we do this, it's too early, we do not have "personality types" atm. Quest, timers, conditions and etc. to return and get a new personality requires better personality handling than we have now.

To answer your question on ST, I explained about mind/mood states and how I wanted to handle it with flags in general and auto-transfer to picking mood tags for images (right now that only happens based on joy stat). If you overdo it with training, girl should get an indifferent picture until counter resets itself if she's left along (maybe 20 - 40 days at random). She would respond to any interaction with "..." and since that can only happen in ST module, she cannot be put on the team/be released from it in that state. It would not require any interference code. This would be my plan after code base would be ready for it.

Characters can loose a lot of health, they can max out fatigue and it would be easy to remove them from a game to a hospital for x amount of days in case of serious injuries. That is once again, far less intrusive that a characters with "special needs" that is completely exposed to the gameworld. So there are alternatives and middle ground. Also, at some point, I want characters to take personal time off, they can't work at just getting short weekend holidays to restore fatigue for years and years without decent vacation/personal time off every now and then. Especially the free girls.

I agree with alignment but even though we have the stat, we do not track it yet.

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Just so we're clear, because this has happened before. Often you argue for stuff like this to be introduced at some point in the future but never put that in your posts. I don't mind getting complex, unique cases into the game once it's core takes shape and we have base modules, stats/skills/personality/relationship/alignment/world logic setup with in some (more or less) finalized version.

Trouble is that these special cases can mess with potential future development like nothing else can if introduced today :( We need simpler, pure gameflow while we're building up logic and content... I have many of these ideas, but most of them will just mess up the code, hinder (or slow down) future development and will return very little gameplay value as opposed to stuff we should be working on right now (SE, ST, Interactions, Quests/Events).

I feel like it would be better to have more armors/dresses than have three parts of every armor/dress. And use other slots for lingerie and toys instead of boots and gloves.

It's kinda awesome looking for matching sets! Would make cool events too :)
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #4195 on: January 01, 2015, 11:28:21 AM »
we do not have "personality types" atm.
Yet. That's what the new traits system about.

Offline Xela

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #4196 on: January 01, 2015, 12:03:06 PM »
Yet. That's what the new traits system about.

Yeah! I think we'll have main personalities + a list of traits that we have now (without comparative stuff like Genius) + get rid of stuff like BigBoobs (move it to hidden properties checked by the game internally).

Maybe it can even be done without butchering current traits logic, just adding single personality per girl/kill some traits. "Body" traits we can hide through an extra field from being displayed. This would prolly be perfect.

AA is built in a similar way and that seems like a decent design. Also it's something you can wrap your head around, I am having some serious trouble keeping all of the current traits in mind.
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Offline Xela

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #4197 on: January 01, 2015, 02:53:24 PM »
I've created ordered dicts for ranks and started filling them in but ran into an issue. We can't do that for jobs like Stripper... it will be too time-consuming.

I think we can go with something like:

"Sex Industry Workers"
"Service Industry Workers"
"Warriors"
"Entertainment Industry Workers"

We'll need short names for these to fit into NextDayScreen summary.

Sadly best I can come up with atm is:

Sex Ind.
Serv. Ind.
Warriors
Ent. Ind.
==========

We could also add more specific professions to use within the classes. All will prolly be strings, we can't add any more logic, there'll never be time to work on anything else if we do.

I am trying to figure out if this should be done now or can wait until we release post-alpha version.
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #4198 on: January 01, 2015, 03:07:46 PM »
Well, invisible traits is something I didn't considered yet, though we discussed hidden traits for "fresh" slaves.

You have to explain me why do you want obvious stuff hidden. I understand when we hide traits of personality because it's something you can't know from the start unless you are a psychic, but what's the point of hiding size of boobs?

In AA there is a certain number in characters editor, boobs size, and depending on it the game gives characters hidden traits, like our small, normal and big boobs. In some games, like SM3, they have boobs size in centimeters displayed, but this is something I don't want to bother with, even though it's possible to find it for most of characters, because of random characters if nothing else.

Comparative traits like Genius are a problem, yeah. But fast learner and slow learner effects, which are parts of genius and retarded traits, are much more useful. Either we need new traits for them, or we need an option to assign permanent effects without traits.

Offline DarkTl

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #4199 on: January 01, 2015, 03:50:17 PM »
"Sex Industry Workers"
"Service Industry Workers"
"Warriors"
"Entertainment Industry Workers"
courtesans/hookers
attendants/servants
mercenaries/enforcers
artists/entertainers