General Discussion

[Xela]

I mean, if we'll have only have female characters in parties eventually, we might as well take another step and say that males actually cannot survive in SE areas due to genetic issues and close the issue once and for all with the help of the lore 

Nah, I want to add males to the game at some point, maybe only for some jobs but it wouldn't be too much effort, especially if someone came along willing to correct all texts. We may also allow female MCs at some stage.

Of course we also can introduce short (for 1 day) explorations not far from the city, where MC can be without any additional coding, for the price of all AP probably.

I just did a test, basically ND is running file over multiple days so we can allow MC raiding for loot. Maybe I can even allow showing all reports from several days in the future, it shouldn't be difficult... but if we decide to do this, we need to start coding the game with such possibility in mind cause it can interfere with some even conditions even if it is working perfectly, for once we can no longer count on any of the screen loading on a specific date, we prolly don't have anything like that atm thought.

Going to push testing case and put in half an hour into thinking through/coding SE.

[DarkTl]

Yeah, that's why I proposed to allow MC be a part of short explorations only, to make sure no events will be missed. When we take MC out of the city, we risk to break events tied to him without additional coding.

Although, we can do it in another way: for example a copy (like Naruto-like clone or simply remotely controlled body of some kind) of MC created by magic or something participates in SE while he stays at home with half of AP, HP, MP, etc.

[Xela]

Yeah, that's why I proposed to allow MC be a part of short explorations only, to make sure no events will be missed. When we take MC out of the city, we risk to break events tied to him without additional coding.

I don't like this one, seems very limiting. I'd go with nothing at all instead of this option.

Although, we can do it in another way: for example a copy (like Naruto-like clone or simply remotely controlled body of some kind) of MC created by magic or something participates in SE while he stays at home with half of AP, HP, MP, etc.

Messy... maybe just with the AP halved. I am also not entirely sure if that will work codewise, more likely yes than no but their could be some issues.

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I am going to code SE with a possibility of adding MC, so far I like the day-skipping idea the best. If we allow that or not can be decided later or even made optional...

[DarkTl]

Some events already tied to days in quests. Like, after N days after a scene something happens after the next turn screen. We need a more centralized system then for checking any time related events which can skip the days when MC is not in the city to guarantee the lack of errors.

[Xela]

Some events already tied to days in quests. Like, after N days after a scene something happens after the next turn screen. We need a more centralized system then for checking any time related events which can skip the days when MC is not in the city to guarantee the lack of errors.

That's doable, what event are those BTW? And how do they work exactly because I am not even sure that it is possible to set that up atm as you describe. I do not recall us running any events in the next day label and it is possible to just click nd without going to the main screen. Basically there is no difference that I recall between just clicking ND from the ND screen and what we were planning to do...

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LoL

I just noticed that my devlog file is 350MB after testing next day skips Going to remove writing BE reports to it...

Also my original assessment of FG code was off, nothing can be salvaged from the building code but the SE logic itself we can keep, adapt to SimPy and expand upon...

[DarkTl]

It's coded by Thewlis. To be honest, I understand less than half of his quests system because it works too differently from the languages I worked with, but some things are clear enough to me.
One of them is the ability to run an arbitrary label on ANY screen as long as you know screen name (sounds like a backdoor vulnerability  ).

[Xela]

It's coded by Thewlis. To be honest, I understand less than half of his quests system because it works too differently from the languages I worked with, but some things are clear enough to me.
One of them is the ability to run an arbitrary label on ANY screen as long as you know screen name (sounds like a backdoor vulnerability  ).

I don't recall him ever coding screen/interaction or label callbacks. If I recall correctly, his quests are run similarly to my events, they are executed only when their functions are called and that never happens during the next day unless I missed it. You could set something like that up if you know how but it'd be more like an add-on to those system, not their primary functions.

There should be no events in the game that execute when the day changes because auto-functions for events/quests system are not executed anywhere in ND and noone on dev team except Thewlis and I would know how to set up next day screen intersection and he only made the one test quest.

==>>
Some backbone code is setup-up for SE, more copy-pasta from old code and some thoughts/plans in form of comments and case classes.

[DarkTl]

I never said during the next day screen, I said after. You just put in his system the name of screen, and once the player moves to that screen, a label will be called. City map, brothel screen, MC screen, any location, anything. Meaning his system watches where the player jumps, I suppose.
It might work during the next day screen, but I never tried something like that.

[Xela]

I never said during the next day screen, I said after. You just put in his system the name of screen, and once the player moves to that screen, a label will be called. City map, brothel screen, MC screen, any location, anything. Meaning his system watches where the player jumps, I suppose.
It might work during the next day screen, but I never tried something like that.

My point was that it is already possible to click ND from the ND screen and it's been possible even in Alpha. Since no events or quests are ran anytime during ND, as it stands now, it is already unreliable to create event that are conditioned to run at a certain day only (==) and not from the day on (>=) day.

Basically, it's like a punishment system, you don't explore enough or don't remember your agreements, you fail the event.

[DarkTl]

Ok, let's say we have an event called after ND at day >=3. Then we run a second event at day >= 6, and it is a continuation of the first event.

Now, if player was inside SE for a week and returned at the 7th day, the events still will work, but one right after another, without a pause which is supposed to be there according to the concept.

[Xela]

Ok, let's say we have an event called after ND at day >=3. Then we run a second event at day >= 6, and it is a continuation of the first event.

Now, if player was inside SE for a week and returned at the 7th day, the events still will work, but one right after another, without a pause which is supposed to be there according to the concept.

You're supposed to use quests system for that... series of events make a quests and even lets say that you don't, you never setup events like that when you need second event to happen 3 or more days after the first one, you create first event to happen at >=3 and at the end of that event register a new event (second one) with the game to run on: >= day + 3.

I also don't get wtf day >= 3 and day >= 6 are supposed to mean in the first place if they don't literally mean: day >= 3 and day >= 6 conditions are acceptable to you, basically you're saying that any day higher than 2 is right for the first event and any day higher than day 5 is right for the second event so yeah, if they happen one after the other on day 7, it's exactly what you told the game to do... if it was:

1) day == 3
2) 1 has happened flag + day >= 6

I'd understand... you miss the event on day 3 and you're done with this chain. I also recall quests system having a progression where event 2 will not happen before you complete event 1 but I am not sure if I ever actually used that option.

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It's not possible to write "perfect" events/quests system where we assume that events can do anything, even if you returned from ND to main screen on day 3, it is not guaranteed that your event will be executed if some event with higher priority is scheduled and that even may ruin it for you as well (by for example forcing next day to occur).

I guess it's about coding/debugging your code and let people test, trying to understand what issues there are and adjusting for them, like with any other code.

[Xela]

Another example is your Naruto Quest, if you're planning to use SE for that no matter what, it'll be impossible to complete for anyone who just wants to do the brothel sim thing (unless you add other options).

So even that is already about compromises.

[DarkTl]

even if you returned from ND to main screen on day 3, it is not guaranteed that your event will be executed if some event with higher priority is scheduled and that even may ruin it for you as well (by for example forcing next day to occur).

Indeed. Thus I have no idea how to guarantee independent advancement of quests when you need, let's say, update the quests log or show a scene three days after some scene. I use main screen because the game doesn't provide any alternatives.

[DarkTl]

Another example is your Naruto Quest, if you're planning to use SE for that no matter what, it'll be impossible to complete for anyone who just wants to do the brothel sim thing (unless you add other options).

So even that is already about compromises.

Yeah, and in Skyrim you can't complete the Crown of Barenziah, which is related to thieves quest lines, without joining the mages guild 

[Xela]

Yeah, and in Skyrim you can't complete the Crown of Barenziah, which is related to thieves quest lines, without joining the mages guild 

Yeap, some quests are just hanging there if you're not willing to turn vamp/warewolf/join some guild and etc. I am just pointing out that first major quest in a game that started off as a borthel sim can't be complete playing the brothel simmer

Although I don't really mind, we'll have other quests and I should prolly code some quest manager system in the future to turn major sh!t on and off (so anyone would get all chars if they don't want to do large quests or even allow multiple quests series for the same chars that exclude one another during the same play-through).