General Discussion

[DarkTl]

I've seen turn-based BEs with a little bit of real time control, for example evasion helps to evade, but only as long as player has good enough reaction to press evade button in time.

[Xela]

I've seen turn-based BEs with a little bit of real time control, for example evasion helps to evade, but only as long as player has good enough reaction to press evade button in time.

That is easier to do with UDD controller than with our setup. + it's prolly not a very popular option.

[DarkTl]

Maybe it's a coincidence, but I also updated renpy to 6.99.12.2.2029 the day before yesterday. Changelog suggests namespaces were updated, so they might be updated with errors.

Turns out even 6.99 has this issue. Weird.

[Xela]

Prolly not. I still expect it to just be a false error report.

[DarkTl]

I updated recently this issue, it's quite close to be closed.
I don't see auto equip (successfully updated by pycobyte) working for free chars by default, it should work all the time unless for example manually disabled for lovers. Atm it doesn't work like that, but it does work correctly if you force the character to use it.

I just finished combat-orientated MC setups (14 in total plus 3 secondary traits for each one). Others, like manager or cazanova types, require actual mechanics allowing them to work on all characters before I can make them, my imagination is just not good enough to make setups based on nothing but vague ideas.

That leaves

So is SE, BE, Wage/Status Tiers, Building/Businesses/rChars Generation, Taxes and SimPy stuff. I do have almost unreasonable expectations towards myself when working uninterrupted so the plan is to take out all of that in a week or two in January, even while working on other project(s) + as codebase grows, you can add events, texts and image calls + balance stuff out.

and some events I'll need to finish, with many of them being based on SE.

I restored from the repo depths my old matrix based dungeon which I'll finish before the beta, making it not based on specific packs to ensure 99% compatibility with any set of packs. But in general there is nothing for me to do if the main code will not advance any further.

[Xela]

We're rushing some stuff in BR a bit... we lost our writer as well

I'll put in 10 - 15 hours into PyTFall this week, it should be enough to wrap up core code for businesses, including SE. We'll have to use local char or Discord (if you have it) to discuss what to do about content for them.

[DarkTl]

I'm not rushing you, I'm not a project manager 
You can focus only on BR until it will be finished, I'll find stuff to do meanwhile. Like you said many times in the past, we all work at our own pace.

But I'll tell it straight: when I see no activity other than my own for weeks, I lose motivation to do stuff too. Not because I cannot work alone, but because the project has zero chances to be finished (in every sense of the word "finished") without the person who started it in the first place aka its main coder.

[Xela]

Noted!

I'll focus on PyTFall tomorrow. We've decided to rush demo version of BR and switch to something else. Full version we'll try to queue up with the movie.

[Xela]

use local char or Discord (if you have it) to discuss what to do about content for them.

Do you have discord btw? Everyone seem to moving to it nowadays...

[DarkTl]

I do believe in advertising via making posts which are visible to everyone all the time. It's not unusual to see 5-20 guests reading this thread almost around the clock.

We can discuss stuff via chats of course, in which case the local chat is the easiest solution, since I don't have discord or skype. But if you think discord is somehow better for our needs, I can create an account there.

[Xela]

I do believe in advertising via making posts which are visible to everyone all the time. It's not unusual to see 5-20 guests reading this thread almost around the clock.

Me too, problem is that we need to make a large number of important decisions and I got to walk you through SimPy code which is immensely complex.

Basically, SimPy code skeleton is ready. There will be code clean-ups before beta but we're good to go for adding content and adjusting interface to match. Decisions need to be made:

- Do we get rid of Jobs now or after beta?
- What do we do with Managers?
- What do we need from SE in terms of special mechanics (both for interface and logic) that will deal with quests/events?
- How do we balance the whole thing? SimPy allows for some really cool stuff but it also make balancing stuff more complicated and debugging SimPy code is time consuming due to very little info about errors.
- What Updates do we want and how should they effects the balance?

Since you're the one in charge of content and balancing stuff out, you need to know what's happening in SimPy, the only idea I have is to write a new Tiers class that will deal with setting up some constants and boundaries when dealing with balancing stuff. That may help in terms of having a lot of code that deals with balance in one place.

We can discuss stuff via chats of course, in which case the local chat is the easiest solution, since I don't have discord or skype. But if you think discord is somehow better for our needs, I can create an account there.

Doesn't matter much, Discord is simpler in a sense that I am online whenever I am coding. We need to coordinate when we meet in local chat somehow + you prolly will have a lot of questions when we start dealing with all of the stuff above.

Took me 3 hours to recall how businesses were setup. I finished setting up basecamp and char capture code (just don't know yet what to do with captured chars). Gonna take a walk to get rid of headache, bb in an hour. I'll work on PyTFall 2 or 3 hours every day from now on and 5 or 6 on BR, taking long breaks from PyTFall code is a really bad idea cause getting back after the break is too taxing.

[DarkTl]

I would prefer to use chats during daytime or at Friday's and Saturday's eventide. Because every time we discussed something at eventide via chat in the past it led to 4-5 hours of sleep before work instead of my usual 7, and that sucks big time in the morning 

- Do we get rid of Jobs now or after beta?
- What do we do with Managers?

The last time I checked jobs code in classes-jobs.rpy I couldn't find any traces of simpy there. As if jobs have nothing to do with it.
Since managers are supposed to affect simpy algorithm, I have a hard time imagining how it will be possible with jobs not controlled properly by simpy.

What do we need from SE in terms of special mechanics (both for interface and logic) that will deal with quests/events?

Outputting arbitrary string, ie "team found X" in the SE log, maybe using unusual font color. And the ability to advance quests and set/delete flags after that to make it meaningful.

As for SE events conditions, they are the same as for quests, except instead of city areas where quest event may trigger they deal with SE areas.

A separate topic is team checks. Ideally, we could use a system which treats exploration team as a single complex unit. So there won't be need to check every single character in the team every time, you can just write for example "if current_team.agility > 10 and current_team.level <= 10" and it checks if at least one of the characters suits it.

[Xela]

I would prefer to use chats during daytime or at Friday's and Saturday's eventide. Because every time we discussed something at eventide via chat in the past it led to 4-5 hours of sleep before work instead of my usual 7, and that sucks big time in the morning 

Friday/Saturday evening it is then.

The last time I checked jobs code in classes-jobs.rpy I couldn't find any traces of simpy there. As if jobs have nothing to do with it.
Since managers are supposed to affect simpy algorithm, I have a hard time imagining how it will be possible with jobs not controlled properly by simpy.

#My point exactly!

We pass data to jobs cause all the previous work is in there but it is a complication that will only get worse as we add new stuff to businesses.

Outputting arbitrary string, ie "team found X" in the SE log, maybe using unusual font color. And the ability to advance quests and set/delete flags after that to make it meaningful.

As for SE events conditions, they are the same as for quests, except instead of city areas where quest event may trigger they deal with SE areas.

Ok, we should prolly work with some made up example for testing. There prolly should also be some marker in GUI...

It may be too complicated and unnecessary to do SE events the same way as world events. SE is it's own "world", we need to work within it's structure somehow.

A separate topic is team checks. Ideally, we could use a system which treats exploration team as a single complex unit. So there won't be need to check every single character in the team every time, you can just write for example "if current_team.agility > 10 and current_team.level <= 10" and it checks if at least one of the characters suits it.

We already have that, it's called Tracker, I'll explain how that works in chat. We'll decide what else is needed from it there.

[DarkTl]

We pass data to jobs cause all the previous work is in there but it is a complication that will only get worse as we add new stuff to businesses.

Jobs are kinda the core of gameplay. Even SE is a job too, to make combat characters more useful than just being guards.
I think it's not wise to ignore this problem for beta. Even if we postpone managers.

It may be too complicated and unnecessary to do SE events the same way as world events. SE is it's own "world", we need to work within it's structure somehow.

No, I mean only the structure of conditions.
Priority, max_runs, dice, simple_conditions, locations (= SE areas where it can happen). They are very useful for any SE events, especially non-quest ones when generic events happen.

[Xela]

I've been going over buildings code, it may be a good idea to clean that up as well before the beta. Gonna try to untangle inheritance chain and see whats what...