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Author Topic: <-- Archived --> **Traits Concept  (Read 50552 times)

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Offline rudistoned

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Re: Traits Concept
« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2013, 10:45:43 AM »
Maybe we mean something different by "scar" or "temporary"? A scar, as I see it, is a patch of skin that grows back after an injury, is visually distinguishable from the skin around it and never disappears again. Scars may fade a little over time, but AFAIK, they do not disappear.


Maybe when you say small scar you mean exudate? [size=78%]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exudate[/size]


Offline DarkTl

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Re: Traits Concept
« Reply #31 on: June 28, 2013, 10:58:04 AM »
I mean something between a scar and a scratch. Actually, I guess we could use scars as permanent traits and scratches as effects.

Offline rudistoned

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Re: Traits Concept
« Reply #32 on: June 28, 2013, 11:14:02 AM »
Sounds good  :)

Offline DarkTl

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Re: Traits Concept
« Reply #33 on: July 27, 2013, 02:10:40 PM »
After I found some info about archetypes, I'm begin to question some aspects of current traits system. After all, the vast majority of characters are from anime of some kind.


We already have tsundere, yandere, loli, chikyugal (=alien), pasokon (=artificial body), neko (=cat girl).

Theoretically, kuudere=impersonal, dandere=shy, moe=kind, genki=optomist, bokukko=tomboy, dojikko=clumsy, meganekko=nerd, imouto=dependant, sensei=serious.

Traits in question for me are nadeshiko and ane, not necessarily under these names. Ie <polite and reserved> and <caring and parential>.

Anything else?

Offline Xela

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Re: Traits Concept
« Reply #34 on: July 27, 2013, 02:15:57 PM »
After I found some info about archetypes, I'm begin to question some aspects of current traits system. After all, the vast majority of characters are from anime of some kind.


We already have tsundere, yandere, loli, chikyugal (=alien), pasokon (=artificial body), neko (=cat girl).

Theoretically, kuudere=impersonal, dandere=shy, moe=kind, genki=optomist, bokukko=tomboy, dojikko=clumsy, meganekko=nerd, imouto=dependant, sensei=serious.

Traits in question for me are nadeshiko and ane, not necessarily under these names. Ie <polite and reserved> and <caring and parential>.

Anything else?

LoL I actually like the idea of adding archtypes to the game... tell me if you need me to program something extra to make this work...
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Offline CherryWood

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Re: Traits Concept
« Reply #35 on: July 28, 2013, 07:47:49 AM »
If you let me to use ripped line from Illusion games, they we will have some overly-polite lines that could fit for nadeshiko or ojou. (and maybe few other types if I put some more time in sorting them) 
But there is one important thing I'm not sure about:
We have stats like character and refinement. And if we use traits for ladylike demeanour and such, what these stats would mean then?
 

Offline Xela

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Re: Traits Concept
« Reply #36 on: July 28, 2013, 08:23:14 AM »
If you let me to use ripped line from Illusion games, they we will have some overly-polite lines that could fit for nadeshiko or ojou. (and maybe few other types if I put some more time in sorting them) 

You can use lines from whereever you feel like, but in my opinion is that texts system you guys are going for to create is to complex for the current state of the game. There will be more checks in the future (Like state of employment/income/living conditions of a girl, her social status and so on ). I keep suggesting to make texts the bare minimum of what they can be and work up from there but noone listens.

But there is one important thing I'm not sure about:
We have stats like character and refinement. And if we use traits for ladylike demeanour and such, what these stats would mean then?

It's an imperfect system, I doubt that it is possible to create a general rule unless we decide to build the entire default girl behavior around those arch-types. Just use your better-judgement on per case basis.
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: Traits Concept
« Reply #37 on: July 28, 2013, 08:38:24 AM »
Now then, Fleet of Foot is now called Hyperactive, Fighter is Combat Training, Assassin is Former Assassin, Maid is Professional Maid to avoid confusion with occupations.
I removed Caught a Cold and Depression traits, instead of s/m/h scars we have Old Scars only, and both they and Cool Scars will be irremovable.

We have stats like character and refinement. And if we use traits for ladylike demeanour and such, what these stats would mean then?
I'm not going to use all these archetypes, and traits will contain only some basic properties of archetypes.
For example, I'm adding now Kuudere ("A person who is cold, blunt and emotionless on the outside, but actually caring and nice on the inside") and Dandere ("A person who is normally quiet and silent, possibly to the point of coming across as emotionless at times, because of extreme social aloofness").
Such archetypes stand out against the ladylike demeanour, that's why they will have traits, probably with effects of some kind.

At the same time Impersonal will remain, since there are Kuudere and Dandere characters with and without emotionless part.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2013, 10:22:45 AM by DarkTl »

Offline DarkTl

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Re: Traits Concept
« Reply #38 on: July 28, 2013, 09:51:13 AM »
I leave out Moe, such characters could be described with Kind and Meek traits. Nadechiko is basically Japanese concept of ideal woman rather than archetype, the only thing we might need from it is <Polite and reserved> part, but it's almost the same as Collected trait.
Genki is otimist+hyperactive.

Ojou, Himedere and Kamidere are spoiled characters with a certain degree of arrogance. Not sure if we need any traits for them. I guess you could just make high enough character stat with low refinement, maybe with Noble trait as well. Maybe I have to change Noble trait a little though to use it for such characters as well, not just for actual nobles.
Bokukko is "female character who resembles an androgynous boy". It is manly+tomboy, I guess.

Dojikko is clumsy. Meganekko is Nerd. Imouto is dependant. Ane is what we need, not only as archetype, but as opposite to dependant. I have no idea how to call it, ideas are welcomed.

Sensei is too indistinct concept to me, it might as well be strict morals or something.
Miko... Do we need chaste characters in the brothel game aside from Kind trait? I guess no.
Aidoru is Famous+Singer/Dancer/whatever. When/if we'll have separate singing/dancing skills, I could create such traits.
Chibi are purely comic characters, and mahou don't have any unique features.

I doubt that it is possible to create a general rule unless we decide to build the entire default girl behavior around those arch-types.
I thought about it, but 1) existing archetypes do not cover the whole variety of characters, and even don't totally mutually exclusive; 2) only ~dere terminology is more or less known among non-Japanese; 3) many archetypes do not have "official", settled name.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2013, 10:31:33 AM by DarkTl »

Offline CherryWood

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Re: Traits Concept
« Reply #39 on: July 28, 2013, 12:11:06 PM »
Now then, Fleet of Foot is now called Hyperactive, Fighter is Combat Training, Assassin is Former Assassin, Maid is Professional Maid to avoid confusion with occupations.
I removed Caught a Cold and Depression traits, instead of s/m/h scars we have Old Scars only, and both they and Cool Scars will be irremovable.
(...)
Great, I like this changes and also most of the stuff mentioned after this

---
Ok, I was thinking about it all a bit, and my personal option about stats vs traits and nobility vs snobish is, to use primary traits to determine what girl will do or say and use stats just for calculation. Maybe not logical, but I would prefer it that way.


To say it simpler, I think it would be good to add these missing traits you mentioned, polite and something for these spoiled arrogant ones and Ane.

[size=78%]---[/size]


You can use lines from whereever you feel like, but in my opinion is that texts system you guys are going for to create is to complex for the current state of the game. There will be more checks in the future (Like state of employment/income/living conditions of a girl, her social status and so on ). I keep suggesting to make texts the bare minimum of what they can be and work up from there but noone listens.


Just as we finish this archetype discussion (already helped me a lot) I'll write my girlmeet concept idea (I expect in-brothel interactions to be more complex so I leave them second) with forks for all good lines I have, so you can better see if it's a good idea or not. I already spend about 60 hours on it so I just don't want to throw it away without a try.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2013, 12:22:03 PM by CherryWood »

Offline DarkTl

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Re: Traits Concept
« Reply #40 on: July 28, 2013, 12:54:04 PM »
To say it simpler, I think it would be good to add these missing traits you mentioned, polite and something for these spoiled arrogant ones and Ane.
Maybe self-centered will be a good name for arrogant ones. As for Ane, I'd like to use another name since this word is little-known, but "Parental" or "Independent" sound even more strange.

Offline Xela

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Re: Traits Concept
« Reply #41 on: July 28, 2013, 01:47:33 PM »
Just as we finish this archetype discussion (already helped me a lot) I'll write my girlmeet concept idea (I expect in-brothel interactions to be more complex so I leave them second) with forks for all good lines I have, so you can better see if it's a good idea or not. I already spend about 60 hours on it so I just don't want to throw it away without a try.

Lets try to waste as little as possible. Also 60 hours  ??? ,well done!
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: Traits Concept
« Reply #42 on: July 29, 2013, 08:23:17 AM »
I wonder if Athletic and Strong, or in case of androids Artificial Body and Strong are the same thing, since Fragile is almost synonym to weak. So maybe I should remove Strong.

On the other hand, theoretically I could imagine a character with very weak body in terms of endurance which possesses great physical strength. But if we are going to consider endurance and strength separately, we need Weak trait as well for the reverse situation.

Any suggestions?

Offline Xela

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Re: Traits Concept
« Reply #43 on: July 29, 2013, 08:46:24 AM »
Any suggestions?

Not really :(

To tell you the truth, I am starting to think that from game designer/programming point of view, traits in itself are not a very good concept. But since we're using them, leaving all of those is prolly a better bet.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 08:48:15 AM by Xela »
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: Traits Concept
« Reply #44 on: July 29, 2013, 09:32:15 AM »
I am starting to think that from game designer/programming point of view, traits in itself are not a very good concept.
The only alternative is increasing the number of primary stats, like adding strength stat instead of Strong/Weak, speed instead of Hyperactive/Dawdler, etc. Maybe adding such stats from SM3 as Sensibility, Ethics, Temperament and so on. This way traits only will be used as flags for properties that can not be passed through stats only, like Artificial Body or Virgin.

It will be somewhat harder to call events depending on stats range rather than traits, but we'll have much less traits, and they will be much better organized.