Alpha: Discussion thread ==>

[lamoli]

Well im way past this point mate.
I did similar and went straight for the 25k House and once you have it with 4 or 5 Girls then is it almost imposible to keep going as you will make more then 5k a week then cleaning costs skyrocket as well!!!
Using a slave wont help either because their Upkeep raises with stats as well which makes no sense to me but well.


The line is 4 girls once you cross it then you are in for some major trouble pushing stats down is somewhat silly i did not even send them to school to max their XXX stats because i noticed how the wage climbed every day.


I guess if you max your girls XXX stats to their max 135/135 then i assume i would even go past the 5k with 2 girls because it seems XXX stats are weighted more heavily on the Income/wage formular

well at turn 922 i got 4 girls working and all of em got 4ap i use auto clean and i guard keeping 1 ap before end turn

i earn 11941 so im taxed 1194 + 1000 for house + 754 for girls... so i have no problem with income.... i could switch a whore to service and another to guard with no problem
if your experiencing problem its because you should keep your girls refinement in check till they earn enough.. use items that lower refinement to max and boost charisma to max ( or use bimbo ring )... you will see that you will earn more a sex round than the upkeep.. and there is 2-3 round in early games..

[RitschRatsch]

well at turn 922 i got 4 girls working and all of em got 4ap i use auto clean and i guard keeping 1 ap before end turn

i earn 11941 so im taxed 1194 + 1000 for house + 754 for girls... so i have no problem with income.... i could switch a whore to service and another to guard with no problem
if your experiencing problem its because you should keep your girls refinement in check till they earn enough.. use items that lower refinement to max and boost charisma to max ( or use bimbo ring )... you will see that you will earn more a sex round than the upkeep.. and there is 2-3 round in early games..

As i said earlier its stupid to lower stats on purpose (on my oppinion) especially because you need them to advance the girls prostitute lvl. Besides refinement should impact customer happiness at least if they like classy girls. And lets be honest EVERYONE likes classy girls


Playing to the system is always easy but that wont fix any of the Problems the current system has...

[lamoli]

As i said earlier its stupid to lower stats on purpose (on my oppinion) especially because you need them to advance the girls prostitute lvl. Besides refinement should impact customer happiness at least if they like classy girls. And lets be honest EVERYONE likes classy girls


Playing to the system is always easy but that wont fix any of the Problems the current system has...

i agree btw i only lower refinement at the start since you start with low class ppl no need of high refinement ( so somehow its ok ) and of course when the whore is trained and ranked like 30 sex acts rank 3 i usualy remove the refinement downgrade items since higher sex ranks compensate the loss in profit .. on my previous post its the girls with 0 items on them all basic stats near maxed only sex acts arent...

doesnt look like a bug to me its only management like ( if your girl got high refinement so of course she could dislike doing it with low class ppl.. and there is also the malus on rank like if its +2 )

but what about character.... is it used in any way ( i tryed to increase it or lower it and saw no difference )...

at the moment im lvling a free girl to see the difference so far its the same... ( maybe harder to start with )

the big help would be to get traits that reduce upkeep.. they exist but no way to get em... ( not implemented yet i guess )

[RitschRatsch]

and there is the main difference as i only use free girls and not slaves
I guess its easier with free girls but their wage + upkeep should be actually lower then Slaves but they dont cost taxes like slaves.


What i really dont get is why the upkeep of slaves goes up with stats its not like they need more money or they suddenly eat 5x more.
250G Upkeep for a Servicegirl is madness sometimes she makes more then she costs but thats just random. If i would use 4 prostitutes and 1 Guard then i wouldnt have any problems i guess..
But if you get to the Big Brothels then add Strippers several Service girls and stuff. I dont see how this works out with the current wage system.

[lamoli]

and there is the main difference as i only use free girls and not slaves
I guess its easier with free girls but their wage + upkeep should be actually lower then Slaves but they dont cost taxes like slaves.


What i really dont get is why the upkeep of slaves goes up with stats its not like they need more money or they suddenly eat 5x more.
250G Upkeep for a Servicegirl is madness sometimes she makes more then she costs but thats just random. If i would use 4 prostitutes and 1 Guard then i wouldnt have any problems i guess..
But if you get to the Big Brothels then add Strippers several Service girls and stuff. I dont see how this works out with the current wage system.

Im going to find out about that.. so far 2 whore 1 service 1 guard gives me no problem 1 whore gives me round 1500-2000 net gain per turn so i might be able to do it.. will have to check how much the strippers will cost me at high rank...

also it would be nice if the disposition impact how much less or more you pay the free girls like at 1000 you can reduce how much you pay by 50-75% since they like you very much ... lol
also we need the option to get/steal the free girl gold with big inpact on disposition.. i got a free girl lvl 29 with 104681 gold on her ....

as for the slave upkeep... maybe create a mc trait or use mc charisma to reduce the slaves upkeep...

as for character.. if possible it would be great if its a refusal factor on some interaction or even jobs.. its nice to break their will to make them do what you want lol..
and i hope new jobs will pop up like matron advertiser torturer ... and so on with their specific trait gain/loss

[BlackWolf Inc.]

I can see what both of you mean, refinement mechanics definatley need some work to make the system work regardless of how you play, it seems that the player is rather restricted in how they can play atm

[Jaeke]

Just played for like half the day, SVN version.
Games kinda hard, which is good. But no rewards for overcoming difficulties, which is bad.

Hero AP only at 4 with 115 constitution at level 47?

Cash stuff

Taxes are super harsh if you rely purely on girls to make you cash. Should halve girl upkeep or taxes, or let them get 4-5 AP easier.
I have to fight in Arena every day just to make some profit, although I have 15 girls and 2 buildings.
Shops start to run out of money really fast if you rely on selling them arena item rewards.

Arena stuff

Dogfights do not scale experience gain with your level. Basically they are only worth doing at low levels, when you will most likely not win.
 I am not sure about matches.

Took me 31 attacks to kill the water creature survival boss thing. 62 clicks for one fight.. kind of not fun.
27 for the earth elemental boss.
All the slimes are almost like this.

Can we get like an auto-repeat-attack-until-they-die button?

Arena Method
OK, so you have to grind goblins until about level 25, then you can use an ultimate healing potion and time your level up to the last few enemies in a survival match to take out the amazons.
At lvl 40 you can beat air raid using same method, at lvl 45, water spirits and earth elemental are doable with same method. Should be able to do amazons just with full hp(~200).
I suspect rogue shinobi, abominations and slimes would be doable around now too.
Elf eaters, envoys of lust will probably take a bit more grinding to be doable.
I don't think you can win against the Divine survival...

Here have some finance report progression pics. And stuff.

I Arena'd everyday, except when buying things. Trained girls till day 100, but then there were no courses under 300 per day...
Bought some buildings, popped em in, prostitute it up. Arena all day. No looking about, no magic buying, no alignment change. Little bit of arena work.

http://oi59.tinypic.com/fup36d.jpg (blegh, it got resized so is almost unreadable)
http://oi60.tinypic.com/1z3qira.jpg (girl since day 1 money report, ~100 days of training. ~60 of work)
http://oi60.tinypic.com/donepj.jpg (hero stats)
http://oi60.tinypic.com/2rm62x1.jpg (day 136 money report embiggened)
http://oi61.tinypic.com/2m6964g.jpg (day 169)
http://oi58.tinypic.com/2mc9f6c.jpg (day 219, no arena since day 169)

Those taxes man.

While I'm here...
Error on fighting glowey blue cat thing in elf eater fight.
I'm sorry, but an uncaught exception occurred.

While running game code:
  File "game/library/screens/pyt - screens - arena_inside.rpy", line 14, in script
  File "game/library/screens/pyt - screens - arena_inside.rpy", line 14, in python
  File "game/library/classes - arena and exploration.rpy", line 997, in python
  File "game/library/classes - arena and exploration.rpy", line 1737, in python
  File "game/library/functions.rpy", line 539, in python
KeyError: u'Claw'

[Xela]

Damn that claw thing... It's Dark's fault! 

Hero AP low:

We lowered that...

Cash:

Right, I need to do something about that, not entirely sure what yet...
Shops thing is fixed already

Arena:

Dogfights exp = bug?
Noted the too many attacks to kill high level creatures thing. Not sure what to do about that yet... Button as you request is likely to take time to implement.

Fin Reports:

Bug in taxes reporting (same as with taxes in the past)

==================
Overall I am getting the main issues but not yet sure about the best way to fix them without significantly expanding the scope of the game! It will take a while, I'll clear as many bugs as possible today and tomorrow, if time permits, will start with code review and coming up with ways to improve the situation in the process.





===========
@ lamoli/RR

There is no way to solve these issues before we expand the scope of the game. I'll try to come up with some intermediate solutions next week maybe.

[BlackWolf Inc.]

Can we get like an auto-repeat-attack-until-they-die button?

Well I know that in FF XIII if you don't select anything it puts default attack in the queue, perhaps something like that?

[DarkTl]

Hero AP only at 4 with 115 constitution at level 47?

That's the measures against too many AP (=too many gold/actions per day). You still could have even more AP, but you need higher level.
Actually, that seems effective enough to lower all taxes a bit.

Shops start to run out of money really fast if you rely on selling them arena item rewards.

You are right, we overlooked it. I believe shops should replenish gold randomly every day (only a bit), and have a major increase every 7-10 days.

Dogfights do not scale experience gain with your level. Basically they are only worth doing at low levels, when you will most likely not win.
 I am not sure about matches.

Took me 31 attacks to kill the water creature survival boss thing. 62 clicks for one fight.. kind of not fun.
27 for the earth elemental boss.
All the slimes are almost like this.

Can we get like an auto-repeat-attack-until-they-die button?

While the battle system is absolutly not ready for anything (that's why it is so boring and simple), I believe we have to change the current mobs strength system. It is too difficult to balance out properly right now. Perhaps we should use levels and stat caps for mobs too.

  File "game/library/classes - arena and exploration.rpy", line 1737, in python
  File "game/library/functions.rpy", line 539, in python
KeyError: u'Claw'

Ah, another couple of typos, thanks.
Fixed and pushed.

[lamoli]

Tested building 75k 2 whore lvl 100+ rank 3 around ( 2k income 7xx upkeep ) for slave and ( 2k income 7xx in wages -5 upkeep ) for a free girl.. so almost the same
1 lvl 29 max in  service free girl ( 17xx-18xx income 7xx wages 15 upkeep ) 1 lvl 41 max in  strip free girl ( 3k income 15xx wages 25 upkeep ) so all in all its doable if they are well trained...
With the - 330 in auto cleaning i get 55xx gold in profit

[lamoli]

Hero AP only at 4 with 115 constitution at level 47?

If its like for girls your only 20 constitution too short :p

( the code was made so you get +1 at 35 then 135 ) so its max +2 ap )

[Marquis]

The tax rates are exorbitant currently: the income tax is based on gross income instead of net income after expenses; the property tax of .04/week means you pay the full value of your brothels/upgrades every 25 weeks; the slave property tax of .05 means you pay full value of your slaves every 20 weeks. It does raise a question "why have taxes at all?" Are you planning on having ways of affecting the rates by bribing officials? If the player can't affect the rates, it's only there for putting a brake on income. You could just as easily say income already has taxes taken out and the price of buildings/upgrades/slaves includes tax and just lower income and raise expenses and skip taxes altogether.


The big thing is to adjust net income for balance. Think of what you'd like a reasonable goal for the first year at moderate difficulty. If the goal is to have an average player at medium difficulty afford a "House in the City" after 365 days, the income without excessive grinding or luck should allow them to purchase the brothel with slaves and some upgrades by year's end. This means *net* income after expenses and taxes should be well over 100k for the year to allow buying (and selling) the lesser properties on the way to the 75k house. If you think the average player should have the Mansion after a year at medium difficulty, then income should be much higher. At higher difficulties, maybe gaining a "House on the outskirts" would be the first year's goal, so income should be lower.
Also, if getting to "House in the City" is a year's goal, then the Stripper job doesn't come into play until year's end, and bartender only at "House on the Outskirts".


My preference is to play at a speed where having a few brothels with the full range of basic jobs is achievable after 365 days. Others may want a faster or slower speed, so having the income be adjustable (either through a config file or difficulty setting) would be cool.
On a side note, it would be good to be able to buy two or more of the lower quality buildings. Only getting one Old Shack or one Small House on the Outskirts seems too limiting. After you fill the two rooms in your one Shack, you have to wait a long time before being able to afford a Small House on the Outskirts to be able to get your third girl. This seems very slow to me. Changing this would allow different play styles. You can more quickly be a Slum lord with lots of low rank shacks versus working towards a higher class building.

[lamoli]

Up to turn 985 i compared free girl vs slave and found out slave are too expensive with their ( self.refinement*1.5 on all jobs in upkeep formula ) when they have the same stats as free girl.. so untill a  ( building upgrade - mc skill/trait can be learned - mc stat ) i will have to keep my slaves refinement gain in check an use all the -refinement items on them..... it also means its harder to train her charisma with trainers since it adds cha or ref if not both...

but i do have a slave girl lvl 108 nearly maxed all base stats ( mutch harder to find trainers when near 300 in skill but that normal by me ) her refinement is maxed and no problem with any job since her sex acts / service / strip are near maxed and she always earn more than her upkeep.. ( with no -refinement items ) if i want to gain more ill just add -refinement items to boost her income but it takes realy long to make a slave untill a -upkeep shows up

repeating myself but if you missed previous posts.. could possibly be fixed with traits gain that lowers upkeep ( no way to gain them atm but glad they exist already ) but will only lowers by around - 80 max if the girl has no unremovabletraits like some unique girls have + what i was proposing on the first line of this post unless you already had something else in mind

[Xela]

On the topic of slaves being to expensive/costing too much, that will change when more logic is available in the game to differentiate between slaves/free girls. Basically, I expect that it will get much better after slavetraning.

Taxes system needs to be improved quite a bit to make more sense...

There should be difficulty levels.

====
Most of this will be a lot easier to get done after slavetraining and exploration have taken form. For now, I think difficulty settings and some changes to the logic are perfectly possible, just not sure what that should be like. I'll take a look into in after bugs are squashed.


I remember the traits request but once again, not sure what to do with it. It's better to come up with a new trait or effect that effects upkeep because if I put too many crutches in the game, there will be no end to them creating bugs and inconsistencies when logic is more advanced in the future.