Author Topic: <-- Archived --> *Image tagging concept  (Read 173387 times)

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Offline Xela

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Re: Image tagging concept
« Reply #60 on: October 07, 2013, 09:12:12 AM »
Beta-Tags-Roundup
(as we discussed here)

"Main Tags":

battle_sprite
battle

stripping
solo
anal
bestiality
blowjob
lesbian
sex
bdsm
group


profile
quest
entertainment
resting


"Sub tags":

sex:

- footjob
- handjob

blowjob:
- 69
- titsjob

solo:
- masturbation
- selfpleasure (other than masturbation)

lesbian:
- cunnilingus (we'll drive modders nuts with spelling errors, maybe "eat pussy" is a better tag) (KILL THIS IN FAVOR OF "lick pussy + lesbian""???)
- tribadism (another bs word they came up with to make it sound more than it is, "scissors" might be a better tag)
- strapon
- dildo joined (double ended dildo or similar device)
- mc cunnilingus


General sex (applicable to more than one main sex category, those categories MUST be specified when tagging):

- active
- passive


- deflowered
- covered in cum
- covered in come solo (like Dark said, loads of these pics out there and events are easy to write) <-- can be understood from solo general tag

New tags??? (implies that mc of a pic is doing it):
- mc fingers pussy
- mc fingers anus
- mc squeezes her tit(s)
- mc licks pussy
- mc licks anus
- mc caresses (or fondles)
- mc dildo pussy
- mc dildo anal
- mc dildo (just holding it)
- mc strapon
- mc pussy strapon
- mc anal strapon (still means MC is doing it)
- mc anal beads

- lick pussy
- lick anus
- finger pussy
- finger anus
- caress tits
- hug
- kissing
- kissed (forcefully?)
- strips <-- removed to avoid confusion.
- dildo
- anal beads
- device
- missionary
- doggy
- ontop
- onside (research required for a better name I guess)
- standing
- suspended (girl is clinging to the guy, can be a part of standing in sex, bdsm might have a different meaning :0 )
- sitting
- spooning
- caressed
- forced (sometimes apparent from the pic even if the girl is not restrained, we could use it in events)

submission:
(active here should mean that main character is punishing other participant(s), passive is assumed and should not be used otherwise.)
- amount of people in the picture available already as tags.
- restrained
- torture (when apparent?)
- lashed
- spanked
- mc spanking

bestiality:

- tentacles

group:
(need some input here as well) (but other than using amount(gender) of people and type(s) of intercourse, should we even add more tags?)
- bukkake

battle:

- classic weapons (generic)
- modern weapons (includes futuristic kind?)
- magic weapons

entertainment:

- cosplay
- musician (music)

rest:

- reading
- bath (CW, please clarify if we need this together with bathing attendant, bathrobe under clothing, bathroom under locations)
- nap (CW, please clarify if we need this together with sleeping?)

"Descriptor tags" (aka Sub/sub tags):

clothing:

- nude
- lingerie
- cat (neko)
- maid
- bunny
- nurce

actions:

- shopping
- healing
- tired
- gambling
- magic
- date
- sport
- cooking
- eating (sub tag for rest maybe, but it doesn't matter)

state:

- drunk
- pregnant
- transformed (as applicable to many girls...)

"Flag Tags":

- night
- winter
- autumn (usually apparent by looking at trees/grass)
- partner hidden
- partner visible should be implied.
- no bg
- simple bg


What else? Should I remove/adjust something?

Are there many feet fetish pics? I though that was getting big in Japan but haven't seen a lot of those before, on the other hand, it's been a while since I've made a pack...

Modders will understand some of this as well as makers of this video understood these lyrics: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIwrgAnx6Q8 :D
« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 12:30:22 PM by Xela »
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Offline rudistoned

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Re: Image tagging concept
« Reply #61 on: October 07, 2013, 10:11:32 AM »
Without any shadow of a doubt, it would be, but blowjob is kinda a "historic" category on these forums that should have been called oral from the beginning...
Historic reasons explain a lot of things. Thanks for the explanation.



"active" and "passive" as I proposed basically describe if the MC participating in ANY WAY in the act or just does nothing but getting fucked.

To be used in texts together with "mood" tags to describe her skill/libido during the jobs events for example...
The tags in the mood category are exactly what I would use to convey the meaning you would convey with active/passive. None of the currently available tags really fit the mood of the images though IMHO.
I think our argument shows that it is quite hard to explain the meaning of active/passive as you understand it. Maybe other words would be easier to understand, for example "lewd", "lustful" or "sensual" for "active" and "indifferent", "shy" or "passionless" for "passive".
I'm not saying active/passive makes no sense the way you use it, it actually does. I am saying that it is very easy to confuse the meaning you want these tags to have with other meanings they could have in the context of sexual interaction.
I could paraphrase the first sentence of the above quote to highlight the confusion:
"active" and "passive" as I proposed basically describe if the MC participates actively or passively in the act, regardless of whether the MC actively or passively participates in the act.
(the first part uses your meaning, the second part my meaning of active/passive)



1)
You've said that you've already tagged the images, does it mean that you've used tags as those are in the software?
I want to know if it's to late to change tags like reading to read or resting to rest (we're used to that) but it would work either way.
I have used the tags as they are now in Image Tagger and I have used several other versions before that. Direct translations are easy to do via simple mass tagging scripts. Something like
Code: [Select]
for image in database:
  oldtags = tags.readxmp(image)
  newtags = set()
  for tag in oldtags:
    newtags.add(translationtable[tag])
  tags.writexmp(image, newtags)
As far as I recall, I used the -ing ending for consistency. If we can get rid of -ing for all tags, it's fine by me.

2)Please clarify on these tags:

exposed
-undressing
+undressing
pov (I think it's might be our profile tag)
generic (like a default?)
Exposed is used to say that you can see parts of the body that you usually can not see. For example, if a girl wears a bra, you can't see her breasts. However, she might have pulled the bra down, so her breasts are exposed. So, in addition to the "bra" tag for the bra, the image gets an "exposed" tag.
I also use the tag to indicate that a girl is putting her pussy on display by bending over, spreading her legs and so on.
One intended use for this tag is something like the "Expose Her" job of Slave Maker.

The undressing tags are a problem. Currently, following the logic of the sex tags, they mean:
-undressing --> main character is being undressed (does not say who is doing the undressing)
+undressing --> main character is undressing someone (does not say who is being undressed)
I used to have just "undressing", but than I could not say that the main character is actually undressing her partner, not herself; I'd also like to be able to say that the main character is being undressed by someone else.

"pov" means point of view and indicates that an image shows the main character from the point of view of the player character. The rationale is that those images are preferable for slave training tasks because they do not impose a specific look on the player character, so the player has more freedom in imagining his character.

"generic" is kind of a place holder tag and says that an image could be used for several different girls (for example a close up that does not show the head). It's a similar concept to generic images in Otherworld or Slave Maker, but I don't do anything with it currently (never got around to it).

Quote
ignore/delete/move (I can guess but I am confused why they are in the front raw, where the most used tags should be so maybe they have other meaning)
"ignore" means skip this image on database generation
"delete" means the image should be deleted at the next opportunity
"move" means the image was placed in the wrong folder, e.g. an image of Belldandy in the folder for Mio
They are where they are because thats were the general, catch-all tags category is. They could just as well be anywhere else.

Quote
Intended difference in:
singer from learn singing
musician from learn an instrument
dancer from learn dancing
Rarely used tags I'm not happy with. Those that start with learn should describe that the activities are currently trained, for example with a teacher, whereas the other tags are professions . I suppose a combination of location + activity tag could replace those.

Quote
is fondle better name for cuddle? (or at least acceptable name for cuddle?)
To fondle means to touch in intimate places and is in between caress and grope. Cuddling may involve fondling, but not necessarily. It's not really the same. I've used "fondle" for all kinds of foreplay that is not covered by other sex tags, so its kind of a catch-all tag. More detail might be useful there.

Quote
Difference between ffm sex to "partners": one guy, one girl
Difference between mmf sex to "partners": two guys
Partners are the people the main character interacts with directly. For example, in a girl-girl-boy (FFM) situation, the main character might kiss the other girl and do nothing else because the other two are currently fucking. This image would get "kiss", "one girl", "ffm sex" and maybe "one other guy". "ffm sex" is there to say that it's actually a threesome, even if the current actions do not clearly show that from the perspective of the main character.

Quote
By "other people" do you mean people just stand there watching the act?
Anybody who can be seen in the image but who does not directly interact with the main character belongs to "other people" . If what a person is doing results in the image getting a sex tag (or activity tag, like dancing), that person belongs to "partners".

Offline Xela

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Re: Image tagging concept
« Reply #62 on: October 07, 2013, 10:42:04 AM »
Ok, I understand. Now software modification question:

- How do I adjust the names of "main" windows like "action".

I am sure there will be more... :)
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Offline rudistoned

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Re: Image tagging concept
« Reply #63 on: October 07, 2013, 10:44:50 AM »
You need to modify the xml file in the res folder (taggroups.xml or so).

Offline Xela

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Re: Image tagging concept
« Reply #64 on: October 07, 2013, 11:09:43 AM »
You need to modify the xml file in the res folder (taggroups.xml or so).

Working on it, I've tried it but failed for 4 times before I've figured what was up...
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Offline rudistoned

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Re: Image tagging concept
« Reply #65 on: October 07, 2013, 11:36:01 AM »
Just to make sure I understand correctly: "main tags" are the names of categories for tags with somewhat similar meaning. So "penetration" could be a main tag for "fuck", "anal" and maybe "blowjob". "fitness" could be a main tag for "jogging", "exercising" and "yoga".

Regarding main tags
blowjob
lesbian
sex
group
I dislike those because they do not carry enough meaning. A new project is a good place to get rid of old traditions and start new ones ;)
"blowjob" should IMHO be "oral" or "oralsex"
"lesbian" does not tell you how many girls there are. Using three tags from the partner category instead ("one girl", "two girls", "more girls") gives you more precision and allows you to use these tags also for non-sexual situations that require a partner (dancing, learning/teaching stuff, sports).
"sex" is very generic in its meaning and could encompass most tags. If you can't guess from the category name the approximate contents of the category, it's a bad name.
"group" also seems to be quite generic as it does not tell you how many people and which gender are involved in the action. Using the tags from the "partner" category gives the game more information to work with.

Quote
profile
Is IMHO unnecessary as a tag. Profile images can be found by excluding other tag groups, e.g. sex tags. In addition, profile images are often used as fallback anyway when no better image can be found. The fallback option should not be limited by the absence of the "profile" tag on an image.

Offline rudistoned

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Re: Image tagging concept
« Reply #66 on: October 07, 2013, 11:37:11 AM »
Working on it, I've tried it but failed for 4 times before I've figured what was up...
Sorry about that. If you have specific questions, I'll be happy to answer them.


UPDATE:

Regarding sub tags
- footjob
Seems to be quite specific. Do you have images to use that tag? Pack makers, what do you think?


Quote
- 69
Not necessary. For a heterosexual couple that can be described as ("one guy", "blowjob", "eat pussy")


Quote
- selfpleasure (other than masturbation)
Like, with toys?


Quote
- cunnilingus (we'll drive modders nuts with spelling errors, maybe "eat pussy" is a better tag)
Bad name, I agree. I vote for "eat pussy" instead as its even shorter than "lick pussy"


Quote
- tribadism (another bs word they came up with to make it sound more than it is, "scissors" might be a better tag)
+1 for scissors


Quote
- dildo joined (double ended dildo or similar device)
Very specific. Pack makers, are there enough images to have a tag like that?

Quote
- cunnilingus
- mc cunnilingus
Why is that better than "+cunnilingus" and "-cunnilingus"? "mc cunnilingus" does not tell you if the main character is doing the cunnilingus or if it is done to her. With + and - all you have to remember is that it's from the perspective of the main character and + is an active act while - is a passive act. In addition, brothelsim also uses the +- system (I copied it from there ;) )

UPDATE: How about "cunnilingus" and "do cunnilingus"?


Quote
- covered in cum
How about "cumcovered" for brevity? Both are fine though.


Quote
submission:
I found the following useful:
"bondage" --> restrained with ropes
"shackled" --> restrained, but not with ropes
"secured" or "lockdown" -->  can't leave where she currently is
« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 12:03:38 PM by rudistoned »

Offline Xela

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Re: Image tagging concept
« Reply #67 on: October 07, 2013, 12:06:11 PM »
Regarding main tagsI dislike those because they do not carry enough meaning. A new project is a good place to get rid of old traditions and start new ones ;)
"blowjob" should IMHO be "oral" or "oralsex"
"lesbian" does not tell you how many girls there are. Using three tags from the partner category instead ("one girl", "two girls", "more girls") gives you more precision and allows you to use these tags also for non-sexual situations that require a partner (dancing, learning/teaching stuff, sports).
"sex" is very generic in its meaning and could encompass most tags. If you can't guess from the category name the approximate contents of the category, it's a bad name.
"group" also seems to be quite generic as it does not tell you how many people and which gender are involved in the action. Using the tags from the "partner" category gives the game more information to work with.

Old habbits and thinking patterns are very hard to break, especially if those had been established for a reason. I don't think anyone on the team would agree to break the usual "WM" pattern. (you guys can correct me if I am mistaken).
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Offline Xela

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Re: Image tagging concept
« Reply #68 on: October 07, 2013, 12:29:18 PM »
Seems to be quite specific. Do you have images to use that tag? Pack makers, what do you think?

http://gelbooru.com/index.php?page=post&s=list&tags=footjob

Makinami and Erza right on the front page... 8k+ total hits...

Not necessary. For a heterosexual couple that can be described as ("one guy", "blowjob", "eat pussy")

I'd prefer not to confuse the hell out of myself when I am writing job events. Also, as I've said, I am planning to check for tags before running the events and 69 will not throw me a bs pic (that combo of 3 can). (69 can also means fingering pussy or handjob, am I supposed to check for all of those as well???)

Like, with toys?

Yeap, or massaging own tits.

Bad name, I agree. I vote for "eat pussy" instead as its even shorter than "lick pussy"

+1 for scissors

scissors and eat pussy than?

Very specific. Pack makers, are there enough images to have a tag like that?

I've seen quite a few with double ended dildos.

Why is that better than "+cunnilingus" and "-cunnilingus"? "mc cunnilingus" does not tell you if the main character is doing the cunnilingus or if it is done to her. With + and - all you have to remember is that it's from the perspective of the main character and + is an active act while - is a passive act. In addition, brothelsim also uses the +- system (I copied it from there ;) )

It might not be, but I've explained it in the main window better than you did with "active sex" and "passive sex" that plainly mean different things from what you intended. Maybe that's where the confusion came from.

UPDATE: How about "cunnilingus" and "do cunnilingus"?

eat pussy/get pussy eaten? :D

How about "cumcovered" for brevity? Both are fine though.

Sounds fine.

I found the following useful:
"bondage" --> restrained with ropes
"shackled" --> restrained, but not with ropes
"secured" or "lockdown" -->  can't leave where she currently is

Bondage is to general to mean restrained with ropes. I've renamed category to bdsm by the way...

lockdown is to uncommon with restrained and maybe shackled...
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Offline CherryWood

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Re: Image tagging concept
« Reply #69 on: October 07, 2013, 12:42:22 PM »
Rest
- reading
- bath (CW, please clarify if we need this together with bathing attendant, bathrobe under clothing, bathroom under locations)
- nap (CW, please clarify if we need this together with sleeping?)
Is this roundup supposed to be used with of without tags from tagger software? I'm kinda confused...

 for bath: I think nude+bathroom will be ok so theres no need for new tag (btw: I don't think I ever seen a bath attendant picture)
 for nap: we don't need this one, sleeping is fine.  There is a lot of pics with girl laying in bed or on the floor, but that's probably the very basic thing people imagine under "rest" so no secondary tag is needed.
------------
outfits are missing any type of medieval armors (for modern uniform and plugsuit from software are enought I think)
also dominatrix outfit could be good
and when we are at it, lolita fashion please!


- footjob
Seems to be quite specific. Do you have images to use that tag? Pack makers, what do you think?
- dildo joined (double ended dildo or similar device)
Very specific. Pack makers, are there enough images to have a tag like that?
footjob - I have 5 of them out of 190 oral pics. Not much, but I would still like to have it. Dominant characters tend to have these.
double dildo - this one is kind of strange, I have 25 of them out of 72 les pics on my 3 Naruto girls, but only 1 in my whole NGE pack (87 les pics).  :)   


----------------
what to do with pics from old Date / Beauty / Ent categories? I was sorting pics here mostly just by the feeling I get from that pic and not by something specific on them. What tags we would call for date / having fun / beauty class now?
*edit* sorry, I overlooked the "entertainment" and "date" on the list.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 01:02:54 PM by CherryWood »

Offline rudistoned

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Re: Image tagging concept
« Reply #70 on: October 07, 2013, 12:52:38 PM »
eat pussy/get pussy eaten? :D
No, I'm actually serious. Use the same approach you did, but replace mc with do for the active act. That's clearer then the +- signs and just a little bit longer. I like it.

Offline Xela

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Re: Image tagging concept
« Reply #71 on: October 07, 2013, 01:02:34 PM »
Is this roundup supposed to be used with of without tags from tagger software? I'm kinda confused...

With, it is supposed to be added to the software if missing. This is what it currently looks now (Main tags and sex categories added):


     

Our current objectives:

- Determine what our tags are and add them to the software if missing.
- Try to preserve as many tags in the software as possible so it would be easier to use with other games.
- Try to figure out what kind of graphical layout (of the software) will work best with tagging for PyTFall.

(On GUI Layout) For example, we now have lists of tags that cover a lot of area, we could put them in scrolldown lists and have 5 or 6 of those per category for example... or we could rearrange the columns or change the contents of the columns and so on. I've made plenty of packs before so I am trying to make what I think would be most convenient for myself, but we'll discuss and adapt.

for bath: I think nude+bathroom will be ok so theres no need for new tag (btw: I don't think I ever seen a bath attendant picture)
 for nap: we don't need this one, sleeping is fine.  There is a lot of pics with girl laying in bed or on the floor, but that's probably the very basic thing people imagine under "rest" so no secondary tag is needed.
------------

Oki

outfits are missing any type of medieval armors (for modern uniform and plugsuit from software are enought I think)
also dominatrix outfit could be good
and when we are at it, lolita fashion please!

- medieval armor
- modern armor (futuristic as well)
- magical armor

- dominatrix
- lolita (I am not sure what lolita fashion is so tell me if one tag is not enough)
- goth ???(I've seen a couple but not many, anyone thinks we need it???)

footjob - I have 5 of them out of 190 oral pics. Not much, but I would still like to have it. Dominant characters tend to have these.
double dildo - this one is kind of strange, I have 25 of them out of 72 les pics on my 3 Naruto girls, but only 1 in my whole NGE pack (87 les pics).  :)

Pixxx guys love double ended dildos... they have plenty of those for all shows that they cover although only their naruto is of good quality...

I would like to keep both categories as well.
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Offline Xela

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Re: Image tagging concept
« Reply #72 on: October 07, 2013, 01:06:50 PM »
No, I'm actually serious. Use the same approach you did, but replace mc with do for the active act. That's clearer then the +- signs and just a little bit longer. I like it.

do it is.


-----------------------
Edit:
First time it actually makes some sense:

Code: [Select]
    "performed by mc":[
"do finger pussy",
"do finger anus",
"do squeezes own tits",
"do lick pussy",
"do lick anus",
"do caress",
"do dildo pussy",
"do dildo anal",
"do dildo",
"do strapon",
"do pussy strapon",
"do anal strapon",
"do anal beads"
    ],
« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 01:12:51 PM by Xela »
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: Image tagging concept
« Reply #73 on: October 07, 2013, 01:14:52 PM »
Old habbits and thinking patterns are very hard to break, especially if those had been established for a reason. I don't think anyone on the team would agree to break the usual "WM" pattern. (you guys can correct me if I am mistaken).
I don't care. I guess you could call it an easter egg for wm though, like average boobs for wm ex  :)

Offline Xela

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Re: Image tagging concept
« Reply #74 on: October 07, 2013, 01:24:07 PM »
I don't care. I guess you could call it an easter egg for wm though, like average boobs for wm ex  :)

Yeap, but I am also not entirely sure how to program fallbacks without those categories, whole brothel part of the game seems to revolve around them...
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