<-- Archived --> *Image tagging concept

[Xela]

300 files left to download to DB out of 16k... Ren'Py better run on this laptop

Rudi's approach for example is to launch the event regardless if there is a pic for it available, than assign "weight" to every tag on scale from 0 to 100 and than a pic with the highest weight is shown. Game tracks pics that were displayed recently so one pic is not shown over and over again. This seems like VERY complicated and dangerous approach to me...

What I do right now in next day job events in PyTFall is to get a list of all events that have texts coded into the game and randomly choose one. This might have limitations as well. Also we need to decide if we want to use some generic pics as a fallback OR create a different fallback system (right now if non of the tags is found, profile is used).

I DO NOT ADVICE TO REDO ANY OF THE PACKS AT THE MOMENT. Lets add some more code and see what's what. I usually get things right by trial and error...

[Xela]

Something different:
Don't you guys think it would be better to use portraits or specially tagged images in select girl menu instead of common profile pics?

Profile pics are interesting, but they are changing a lot so it's a little confusing to look for a girl based on her looks and they're too small to actually see something.
Portraits should be much easier to navigate, but also a little boring...
...but if we tag a selection of pics, one for each of happy/sad/indifferent moods and change those accordingly, the screen could look much more interesting.
And even more if we could manage to add small icons representing important statuses next to the texts, that would increase it's usefulness a lot.

Per game element tagging might also work, but would require a lot of effort. Might be simpler to use "profile" + "mood". Portraits will be weird because most girls have only one or two of those and you'll get a lot of same random girl portrait pics as in arena.

BTW: Do we have Hinata, Sakura and TenTen tagged somewhere? I still only have the old filename based version? 220 files left...

[CherryWood]

Per game element tagging might also work, but would require a lot of effort. Might be simpler to use "profile" + "mood". Portraits will be weird because most girls have only one or two of those and you'll get a lot of same random girl portrait pics as in arena.

I was thinking about creating a new tag (like "selection") and add it to some profile pics that displays girls from waits up (these looks best here in my option), one for each important mood.
But I completely forget about the Rgirls...


I like how it was done for the Rgirl in one WM versions - where the game selected one profile pics for the Rgirl on her creation and that one stayed with her forever without changing. Maybe that could work here too?

BTW: Do we have Hinata, Sakura and TenTen tagged somewhere? I still only have the old filename based version? 220 files left...

No, I don't have them updated yet. I'm tagging Haruhi now, but I can switch to these three. But I'm in the middle of school exams now, so I can't tell when it will be done...

[Xela]

There is no hurry. We'll see, maybe per game element tags will be the way to go and we'll add tags like "selection". 3 files left... I almost have access to the code again

[DarkTl]

Because if a girl have 10 maid pics, but only one is cleaning one, you'll never see the other nine.

That's because we most likely don't have any events that require pure maid pics yet. We just need to add such events in the future.
Maid pics also could be used for waitress job, btw.

I DO NOT ADVICE TO REDO ANY OF THE PACKS AT THE MOMENT. Lets add some more code and see what's what. I usually get things right by trial and error...

Yup, retagging will be post alpha. And I don't tag packs I'm currently working on.
Not to mention that we need an option to quickly delete unused tags for a start.

[Xela]

I've had a sleep on it... so some thoughts on the tagging system:

Explanation first, so we're all on the same page:

Rudi's database works like this: Tag: ["pic1", "pic2, ..."]. It has a bunch of methods to access the data. Tags and pics are loaded in the game once on start.

Right now during jobs we do this:

When a job runs:
1) Check if girl has an image: "sex", "missionary" available. Is yes, "sex_missionary" event is added to a list.

2) After all events had been added, game randomly chooses one.

3) Corresponding text and pic are loaded into the NextDayList with all other info. When pic is loaded, data base is accessed twice. First to get all the images with "sex", "missionary" tags, than to get all tags with "excluded" tags (like "bdsm" and "group"). Then all pics in the first batch are being removed if they are also in the second.

This will not work (perfectly) either. Even if we exclude "bdsm" and "group" tags during 1) as well, it might still be flawed. Also database would have to be accessed four times to get one single event...

For now it seems to be working fast enough but I have not testing this with a lot of girls yet. One way to improve this approach is to do 1) once on the startup, but it's a code thing, I doubt we'll run into a speed problem even with how things are now. In order to improve current approach, we would have to exclude a whole bunch of tags, and even THEN it might not work

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Basically, I currently see two options here:

1) Rudi's approach of running the event anyway, assign "weight" to tags and have the game pic the best matched pic.

2) Approach that I've originally intended. All "Main" categories, actually, become "Main" and cannot be used as sub descriptors. If you need sex as a sub tag, lets call WM sex category "normalsex" or "whorejob_sex". Basically, just like in WM, you would only tag an image you would conceder as acceptable for appearing during sex act of the whore job. Descriptors like "location", "mood", "outfit", "position" would all be secondary. I think this will work really well and that is actually how I assumed you were tagging.

What do you think?

[DarkTl]

Basically, our "main" catagories are just usual categories from wm. But since we already have much more tags than wm had, we have outgrown it.

While the second approach may be easier for coding, it requires a great deal of knowledge about the game from a pack maker. Even now many tags don't have a main category.
We also might need new tags for new jobs/events in the future that may or may not have a main category as well.

On the other hand, as Cherry mentioned in his example with Asuka and Sakuya, pack makers will have more control over packs with the first approach, with sorting pictures rather than describing them.

[CherryWood]

The advantage in main tags is, that if we make something like "service_job" tag, then, even if a girl doesn't have any obvious waitress or maid/bunny pics, a pack maker can select at least a few pictures that will not hurt the eyes as much as a fall to normal profile pic could (not a pic with character clad in armor and weapons...).
Or sort out outfits that we couldn't predict when making the events (let's say, let the girl doing service in china clothes, because it's still better then schoolgirl)


But that may be a lot of tags...
And there could be a problem if we decide to expand the game in the future with new stuff to do (for example a girl posing for a photo)


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Jobs are kind of understandable in terms of main tags, but what about other things:


We once talked about that it will be nice if we could add a beach location in the city, place a standard girlmeets here but let all the girl there appear only in her bikini, swimsuit or summer clothes.


I expect a lot of locations, dates or events could want to use tags like this and we surely can't have main tag for everything in game, like "beach date main tag".

[Xela]

Basically, our "main" catagories are just usual categories from wm. But since we already have much more tags than wm had, we have outgrown it.

While the second approach may be easier for coding, it requires a great deal of knowledge about the game from a pack maker. Even now many tags don't have a main category.
We also might need new tags for new jobs/events in the future that may or may not have a main category as well.

On the other hand, as Cherry mentioned in his example with Asuka and Sakuya, pack makers will have more control over packs with the first approach, with sorting pictures rather than describing them.

Well, I am HEAVILY in favor of "main" pinpoint tags. To call any image without whose seems to me like a coding nightmare that I couldn't enjoy (and I usually enjoy coding for PyTFall, except for when I get stuck on the one design for weeks/month).

Try calling a profile pic without main categories. You'll basically have to exclude all sex tags (without main categories, there are couple of dozen of those), all professional tags, couple of locations probably as well. Same for sex pics, the amount of tags you'd have to exclude every time would be REALLY annoying.

At the same time with main categories, you just specify a category, that's it. Next you can check for additional parameters but you automatically know that you're on the right track...

It would prolly be a good idea to add a number of main categories we require in PyTFall and also some logical once (like inside/outside (in general) for example).

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Jobs are kind of understandable in terms of main tags, but what about other things:


We once talked about that it will be nice if we could add a beach location in the city, place a standard girlmeets here but let all the girl there appear only in her bikini, swimsuit or summer clothes.


I expect a lot of locations, dates or events could want to use tags like this.

Well, with main tags, such a pic would be tagged as: "profile", "bikini". Maybe beach as a location as well. Without main tags, you'd have to exclude sh!tloads of tags as you do not have a profile main category (or similar if you want to use profile exclusively for profile screen).

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Small fix to SF was pushed...

[CherryWood]

Ok. I agree that we should keep using main tags. So within the concept we already have, my suggestion is:


1) Adding a profile_screen (and maybe girl_list_screen) tag and let the game look for this tag in screens first and use profile tag if it didn't find one. (so it's not required)
Otherwise using Profile main tag in a way you and DarkTl used it until now (=I add it to all pics where I didn't have it, like nude pics)

=I'm hoping for something that will keep the Profile main tag usefulness for making events while giving an option to remove all those not-normal appearances from girl's profile. (and it will give an option to create a pic that will show in profile screen but not anywhere else)


2) Add these three blowjob, anal and vaginal sub tags for group and bdsm pics. Also number of participants ("one guy" tag) make sense for these two only. (maybe also for a dance pics)


And anything else we find out

[Xela]

Ok. I agree that we should keep using main tags. So within the concept we already have, my suggestion is:


1) Adding a profile_screen (and maybe girl_list_screen) tag and let the game look for this tag in screens first and use profile tag if it didn't find one. (so it's not required)
Otherwise using Profile main tag in a way you and DarkTl used it until now (=I add it to all pics where I didn't have it, like nude pics)

=I'm hoping for something that will keep the Profile main tag usefulness for making events while giving an option to remove all those not-normal appearances from girl's profile. (and it will give an option to create a pic that will show in profile screen but not anywhere else)


2) Add these three blowjob, anal and vaginal sub tags for group and bdsm pics. Also number of participants ("one guy" tag) make sense for these two only. (maybe also for a dance pics)


And anything else we find out

Yeap, I am in favor of this. Actually this does not really cancel the "weight" approach either, I am thinking about coding that in as well at some point.

Also I don't think profile should include Nude pics. I never built packs like that for WM, still, some people did and it wasn't to weird.

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Right now I am still messing with our usual show method, I've added first tag as a main tag, if an image with all tags is not found, game will try to find: first + second tags, than first + third and so on. Only than fall back to the profile.

Otherwise... some thoughts on tagging system, using approach with main tags:

We can use profile for profile screen IF (and this will be VERY useful for coding and simple to tag):

We add highest level of tags:
sex pic (should include bdsm/restrained tags as well)
clean pic

For locations (also high level):
inside
outside
simple bg (could be used for both)

Rest, current tags are fine, we just need separate tags for sex/anal/bj on bdsm/group and those as an act during job.

[DarkTl]

Yeah, more main tags (or rather at least one main tag for any type of picture) will help.

Also, even with separate tags for sex/anal/bj on bdsm/group there are pictures that may be used for different main categories. For example, strip and mast for something like that (not the best example, but a quick one). Or rest and strip for a lying, half-naked girl, etc.

[Xela]

Well, since blowjob main cat would likely include handjob, footjob and etc. it can also be tagged with blowjob subtag for example.

I believe this will work and will not be to hard to explain.

[DarkTl]

Also, if we'll use that approach when you tag everyone except the MC, we might not need group main tag at all. Just sex with "two guys" or "more guys" instead.

[Xela]

Also, if we'll use that approach when you tag everyone except the MC, we might not need group main tag at all. Just sex with "two guys" or "more guys" instead.

Yes we will... it's a coding thing, I'd have to write another type otherwise and it's easier to work with.