<-- Archived --> *Image tagging concept

[DarkTl]

We need them anyway. You need hentai tags when you tag hentai pics only.

[livingforever]

Hey everyone!
I don't know if I should laugh or cry about the fact that I am being called huffy and upset, but you are the ones that immediately plan to exclude me without even bothering to read my post.

As for me, I see it as a challenge. You guys made cleaning up the current concept a lot more difficult.

Sounds quite clear to me. Maybe I phrased it wrong?

So... does having a different opinion than you make me a bad person? Do you want me to send you a CV to prove that my opinion is based on experience? Or do you just want to pretend that I was never here...
I don't blame your for clinging to a concept that you've been working for and with for a long time. But I think that you shouldn't blame me for sharing my unbiased, honest opinion.

In any case, all of that doesn't mean that I'm just disappearing.
Have fun!

[Xela]

I don't know if I should laugh or cry about the fact that I am being called huffy and upset, but you are the ones that immediately plan to exclude me without even bothering to read my post.Sounds quite clear to me. Maybe I phrased it wrong?

? I am not sure I got that from his post...

Don't generalize

We always need more people on the project. And having 4 taggers is better than 3 + One in Ren'Py will never work as well as one in Java, framework was never designed with that purpose in mind.

[livingforever]

Don't generalize

You're right. Sorry.

[DarkTl]

I have absolutely no interest in designing a system that carries an insane amount of unused information.

I believe it's impossible to do well something that doesn't interest you at all if you do not get paid for it.
If you are not interested in our tags system and want to help, there are dozens of other ways to help the project.

[livingforever]

I believe it's impossible to do well something that doesn't interest you at all if you do not get paid for it.
If you are not interested in our tags system and want to help, there are dozens of other ways to help the project.

Please read the things that you are quoting. I said that I am not interested in designing a system like that. Since you are not interested in fundamental changes, the next step is to improve the system that is already in place - and I never excluded that option.

[Xela]

Please read the things that you are quoting. I said that I am not interested in designing a system like that. Since you are not interested in fundamental changes, the next step is to improve the system that is already in place - and I never excluded that option.

**We need to adds tags facilitating slave training.
**Remove all tags we may no longer require
**Add tags that significantly improve access to db like "clean" (not sex) There are two or three more of these.

Are we ready to kill off using JSON for ingame tags today? Or would it be wiser to wait until tomorrow with a bit fresher heads?

[DarkTl]

I said that I am not interested in designing a system like that. Since you are not interested in fundamental changes, the next step is to improve the system that is already in place - and I never excluded that option.

Ok, I guess I misunderstood your intentions. We cannot make a final version without ST system anyway though, it probably should include more accurate tags for bdsm pics.

Are we ready to kill off using JSON for ingame tags today? Or would it be wiser to wait until tomorrow with a bit fresher heads?

I have two backups for all jsons and packs, there is nothing you can do to hurt me 

[livingforever]

**We need to adds tags facilitating slave training.
**Remove all tags we may no longer require
**Add tags that significantly improve access to db like "clean" (not sex) There are two or three more of these.

I'll leave those changes up to you guys for now. I want to get a good overview over the current tags first (since I now understand your system behind them).

Are we ready to kill off using JSON for ingame tags today? Or would it be wiser to wait until tomorrow with a bit fresher heads?

Propably not today. Maybe I'll get some code written later - a conversion method (from JSON to filenames) is the first priority.
Have fun!

[Xela]

Propably not today. Maybe I'll get some code written later - a conversion method (from JSON to filenames) is the first priority.

That's done already.

I have two backups for all jsons and packs, there is nothing you can do to hurt me 

Good to know.

I ran into some minor issues so we'll convert tomorrow.

[livingforever]

That's done already.

And I even commented on the screenshot...

Well, in that case let's discuss the format real quick (because I love optimizations). Using two chars with a '-' as delimiter is fine, but the random identifiers should be put at the end of the string (because the last 4 characters [.jpg/.png] can be ignored anyway, so why not ignore the last 8 instead) and I think that two lowercase characters are easier to read (compared to one char and one digit).
Have fun!

[Xela]

And I even commented on the screenshot...

Well, in that case let's discuss the format real quick (because I love optimizations). Using two chars with a '-' as delimiter is fine, but the random identifiers should be put at the end of the string (because the last 4 characters [.jpg/.png] can be ignored anyway, so why not ignore the last 8 instead) and I think that two lowercase characters are easier to read (compared to one char and one digit).
Have fun!

The randomizer at the end is one less list slice indeed. We can rule out ".jpeg" extensions I guess. (This is now implemented)

We should prolly keep the numerals. They are very likely to help special tags standout a bit (pr, bj, le and etc.).

Edit:
**It's not yet possible to tag new images, only retag those that are already in the game. I'll add tagging new once tonight.
**It should be noted that with this tagger girls data file and folder with images would have to be created first (I don't want to invent an explorer in Ren'Py)
**Once it's in a better shape, it'll prolly make sense to to start the tagger separately from the main menu instead of main screen.

- We need some kind of a system for tabs/isolation of tags displayed on the screen. Ren'Py plainly cannot handle so many buttons at the same time.

[livingforever]

Hi everyone!
While sorting all the tags so the access with the editor is faster and somewhat more intuitive, I came across a couple of tags that don't make much sense to me.

• ent - What is this used for? The name is very unclear.
• quest - What kinds of images have this tag? It sounds extremely general.
• All tags in the mood category - Are these used? Are they needed? I'd like to remove the whole category because I think it's not relevant enough - if some moods are relevant, I'd like to know when they are used.
• anal beads - Isn't that just a speciallly shaped dildo? Is it relevant to distinguish between those two?
• do anal beads - Same.
• dildo - Why is there a dildo, dildo anal and dildo pussy tag? Wouldn't the last two suffice?
• do dildo - Same.
• do strapon - Same.
• active - Unclear name. What is this used for? If it's what I think it is (differentiation between active and passive character/customer) then why are there redundant tags for exactely that situation (like dildo pussy and do dildo pussy)?
• eat pussy - Isn't that just a kind of licking? Already removed (source)
• do eat pussy - Same. Already removed (source)
• weapon - What is it used for? Isn't that the same as battle? Already removed (source)
• simple bg - Does it make sense to distinguish between this and no bg?
• autumn - Is that relevant?
• winter - Same. Why only these two seasons? Are seasons a mechanic in the game? Can't you make up an excuse for ignoring seasons completely? It's a fantasy world after all.
• partner hidden - Is that tag relevant? Is it used anywhere? Does anyone care wether the partner is hidden or not? Does hidden mean invisible or just outside of the picture?
• beauty - Isn't that the same as fashionable?
• etiquette - Same as formal?
• undress - Same as strip?

Have fun!

[DarkTl]

- ent is an old terminology for pictures where girls just have fun, like playing some games or dancing. We don't really use it anymore, since there are much more accurate tags.
- quest means backgroundless pictures that used during events and dialogues, like characters sprites in VN games.
- we have joy, libido and various events. Thus, girls can have a certain mood.
- anal beads are, um, used a bit differently than dildo, if you know what I mean. You can't really equip them for example 
- dildo: dildo equipped but not used; do dildo: the character uses dildo on someone; dildo anal/dildo pussy: someone is using dildo on the character. This way texts match pictures.
- active is Xela's vague idea about activity during sex, either the character just lying around or shows signs of participation, like touches herself in ecstasy or something.
- Eat pussy should be replaced with cunnigulus. Xela thought that this term could be unknown to some people. But this is an adult game, people who don't know what is it should wait a bit before playing it.
- partner hidden: if you cannot say who is s/he, the picture can be used everywhere, including sex with MC, because partner is unidentifiable. Otherwise it can be used only during events like sex with a customer or something, ie when partner doesn't really matter.
- weapon means that the girl has a weapon on the picture, but she is not fighting. I'm not really sure if we need it though.
- autumn/winter can be easily identified by red leaves or snow, unlike other seasons. In some cases this may be important, at least Xela thinks so.
- beauty means that the girls tries/learns to make herself prettier. Used for charisma schools mostly.
- etiquette is the same for refinement.
- undress: not exactly. Striptease job implies certain conditions. If a girl removes some clothes at night in the bedroom alone, or at the beach near ocean for example, you can't pretend that this is a striptease job in your brothel.

[CherryWood]

Hi! 


•ent = it's not used as it was intended to. I suggest it will be replaced by "active rest" tag for rest job texts. Or stay and be used as that. It's for all those activities girls do that are not common enough to justify its own tag (like "reading" is).
•quest = these are for backgroundless sprite images. I'm specially using it for VisualNovel-like images in my pack. But only place where those are appearing atm is slave market.
•mood = mood is currently used is interactions and some job events - like, if the girl is beaten, and there is no "hurt" tag image, "profile"+"sad" is used. It's also needed for those "quest" VN pics to distinguish them. In combination with "sex" and "active" it can be used to look for rapeish like pics and so on. But mood is definitely not needed for most of the secondary categories, because there is usually not enough pics for that anyway. We need to talk about that in review.
•dildo = there are pics when the girl or a partner is holding a dildo in hand and it's unsure where it will be used    but it really may be unnecessary detail not worth having a tag
•active = it is a confusing tag. We were totally confused by that one too    It was supposed to be for pics where the girl is actively cooperating with the act.
•eat pussy = I say it is the same. I'm for removing it.
•weapon = we decided not to use this one
•simple bg = this one is for images that can be use anywhere (=simple colored or graphic background). No bg tag existed for backgroundless pics that were no VN sprites ("quest" tag) but that is not really needed so we can get rid of one of those ("quest or "no bg").  This simple bg tag need reconsideration too, because it's the most common case among pictures so it may be worth it for to be considered as default one with no tag. But there do exist pictures with backgrounds no suitable for pytfall world (too modern, alien, mecha...) so this needs to be considered too. But this primarily depends on discussion about another tag, "girlmeets" (=tag for girl wandering around the game world). And there's that system problem with using main tags only...
•autumn/winter - I suppose autumn is excessive detail, but winter is distinctive enough so it may stay.
•partner hidden - now this tag as one I consider important. It's for intimate interaction where MC is taking part in. We don't want to show Naruto having sex when MC is the one supposed to be there, and most importantly, there are usually plenty of pics with headless males or point of view pics for the packs for this tag. But maybe the name is confusing a bit, as the partner is clearly there and not hidden,
•beauty = beauty tag is for beauty school course right now. It doesn't mean a type of clothes like "fashionable". If we really need a outfits tags is another question... I tend to have a lot of pics under this tag, as I'm putting most of the clothes unusual for the character in question there.
•etiquette = same, etiquette is for school course, formal is a clothes tag.
•undress = is for girl dressing, undressing, but not putting on a strip show. So it's used with "profile" tag or "rest" tag usually. I've had some pictures like that in my packs, but it's hard to imagine any use for them in the game. So this one tag could go I suppose.




I think it may be good to talk (after we get to trait review) about every not totally obvious tag like this, and also talk about the all major game screen on how pictures should be called there, because only then it will be truly clear for everyone. And make a guide of what we agree upon.