<-- Archived --> *Image tagging concept

[livingforever]

Thanks for the clarifications!

• So ent is a general freetime tag. I guess it should be renamed.
• quest and no bg could be combined as sprite
• I guess mood is difficult to handle - in some situations it might come in handy, but in most it doesn't. Maybe the category could be reduced a bit.
• I (now) understand what dildo is used for, not sure if that is necessary though. Does holding a sex toy make any difference in a sex scene? In any case the tag should be renamed so it doesn't get confused with the sexual activities.
• @DarkTI: That is somewhat strange. If do dildo is active and dildo anal/pussy is passive, then why is there do dildo anal/pussy as well? I think you got a little confused there yourself, a good reason to remove do dildo and do strapon and use the more precise tags instead.
• active is confusing the way it is now, I agree on that. However, I'm not sure how to replace it.
• Definition of cunnilingus: Oral stimulation of the clitoris or vulva. Sounds like licking to me.
• I agree with CherryWood on the autumn & winter tags.
• Also, yes, I guess partner hidden makes sense in that regard.
• I figured that beauty and etiquette are for the schools, but what classifies an image with that tag? Applying make-up, balancing books on her head? Or is there more to it?
• I don't know about undress, depending on how you put it it's either redundant with strip or with rest. Also, the strip tag doesn't specify wether it's her job or not.

Have fun!

[Xela]

Thanks for the clarifications!

• So ent is a general freetime tag. I guess it should be renamed.
• quest and no bg could be combined as sprite
• Definition of cunnilingus: Oral stimulation of the clitoris or vulva. Sounds like licking to me.

Ent is a legacy from WM, we don't actually use it in the game due to more precise tags being available so it doesn't matter much what happens to it.

sprite... I really like this one!

We're using lick all over the code. I think the other one was dropped from the concept but remained in XMP data, that's why new dict doesn't have it while some JSONs still do. Same thing counts for weapon I believe, there ware some ideas to pinpoint weapon being used as a sextoy and pointing out battle pics where the girl is clearly armed, but that was dropped too I believe as of not being very useful.

[CherryWood]

• So ent is a general freetime tag. I guess it should be renamed.

Ent is a legacy from WM, we don't actually use it in the game due to more precise tags being available so it doesn't matter much what happens to it.

"Rest" is a general freetime tag    I thought that ent could be for pictures when the girl is going to actively spend her free time in the city, vs the standard rest, when she is doing something at home (that doesn't have other tags, let's say painting). But I just checked all rest pictures in my packs and it's not needed at all, because all activities outside home will have location tags like "urban", "park" etc. and I could base relevant texts on that. So we could freely remove "ent".

But we surely need this "taking a nap" tag there for rest and I would support "having a bath" also.


@livingforever
"do" tags are primarily meaned for lesbian pics, to determine who is pleasing who. For whore job, is the girls is doing something to her female customer, we use "do tags" for such pics, and "without do" normal tags if it's the other way around. (so there will be both if they are doing something to each other).
"Dildo" and "do dildo" tags are not that needed as it could be up to the modder to decide on how that dildo will be used. But he can't use both "dildo pussy" and "dildo anal" tags at once, because that would mean there are two dildos used at the same time. (talk about complicated... maybe we should just have some "sex toys used" tag and screw everything    )

[livingforever]

"do" tags are primarily meaned for lesbian pics, to determine who is pleasing who. For whore job, is the girls is doing something to her female customer, we use "do tags" for such pics, and "without do" normal tags if it's the other way around. (so there will be both if they are doing something to each other).
"Dildo" and "do dildo" tags are not that needed as it could be up to the modder to decide on how that dildo will be used. But he can't use both "dildo pussy" and "dildo anal" tags at once, because that would mean there are two dildos used at the same time. (talk about complicated... maybe we should just have some "sex toys used" tag and screw everything    )

Wait a second. I am aware how those tags are used. I do not want to remove all of them. But what stops you from using both those tags? What's the point in having dildo, dildo pussy and dildo anal when you could either keep the more general tag or the more precise ones. Keeping all three just makes no sense.
Have fun!

[DarkTl]

• I figured that beauty and etiquette are for the schools, but what classifies an image with that tag? Applying make-up, balancing books on her head? Or is there more to it?

More or less, it's at the discretion of the pack maker. You could try to find pics with these tags in our packs.

• I don't know about undress, depending on how you put it it's either redundant with strip or with rest. Also, the strip tag doesn't specify wether it's her job or not.

But we don't try to push pictures into categories at all cost. If picture is not suited for strip, but too indecent for a usual profile/rest because of undressing, it's profile+undress or rest+undress. Unless you can come up with a better tag.

@DarkTI: That is somewhat strange. If do dildo is active and dildo anal/pussy is passive, then why is there do dildo anal/pussy as well? I think you got a little confused there yourself, a good reason to remove do dildo and do strapon and use the more precise tags instead.

Because these tags were added by Xela, just like active. Nuff said 
I agree that we should try to handle it a bit differently.

[Pinkutako]

Wait a second. I am aware how those tags are used. I do not want to remove all of them. But what stops you from using both those tags? What's the point in having dildo, dildo pussy and dildo anal when you could either keep the more general tag or the more precise ones. Keeping all three just makes no sense.

Optimization is all well and good, but anything that removes text to image accuracy is a bad idea.  You could use a "sextoy used" tag for something like "Orihime used a sex toy on her client." or "the client used a sex toy on Orihime."  Sure, It's easier, but boring.  with that logic you could just use "Orihime had sex." for all sex interactions.  It's just dull.
  Now, speaking as a whiny, demanding end user.   It absolutely matters who is using the dildo, where they are sticking it, and how many dildos are being used.  I can appreciate the desire for clean smooth running code, but the players don't see code.  we want accurate text for the image shown.  Probably more than game speed.  It doesn't matter to me if a tag library takes 0.003 seconds to load or 40 seconds. Granted I wouldn't want it to take a 15 minutes to start the game every time, but less than a minute is fine. 

Whiny End User complete. 

[CherryWood]

Whiny End User complete. 

If it only was this easy.
One of the things to consider is, that the more detail we go into with tags, the more the changes are that many girls will don't have a picture like that. Just let's say, if of 10 prostitutes, only 1 of them have a titsjob pics, then she'll be the only one ever doing that? It works like this now, but its a bit weird thing on its own. And I'm not really fond of the idea of filling the game with default pics...

[livingforever]

Guys, again: I do not want to remove details. I want to remove absolutely redundant tags.

• do strapon
• do strapon pussy
• do strapon anal

You see the problem here? It's redundant. Why does the do strapon tag exist if there are more precise ones? The same goes for do dildo.


I don't want to remove the more precise tags. I want to remove the more general one because it's unnecessary.

By the way, why is it pussy and anal and not vaginal and anal or pussy and ass (pointless nitpicking ftw)?

Also, on the note of tag occurence: Why don't you just use a statistical approach, especially for general things like the customer gender. There are 10 male customer images for 1 female customer image, so why not have 10 times more male customers to balance it out? This could even be calculated when the tags are loaded.
Have fun!

[DarkTl]

Maybe we could use structures like "dildo" + "anally" + "by girl" or "strapon" + "vaginally" + "to girl" instead. In case if dildo is not used, it's just dildo.

[Pinkutako]

If it only was this easy.One of the things to consider is, that the more detail we go into with tags, the more the changes are that many girls will don't have a picture like that. Just let's say, if of 10 prostitutes, only 1 of them have a titsjob pics, then she'll be the only one ever doing that? It works like this now, but its a bit weird thing on its own. And I'm not really fond of the idea of filling the game with default pics...

I can understand that.  I suppose I don't see the girl lacking the images as much of an issue.  Default text is something that is already in the game.  The crazy packs that exist now default to general text because they aren't tagged the same.  I like the way the game handles that now; where  if the girl doesn't have an image with the tags it defaults to a general sex image and general text.  The ones that do have a specific image like a titsjob are a bonus when the text can describe it.    If the girl doesn't have the image variety then that only makes that one girl boring compared to the rest.  I agree that default titsjob images should be avoided, or similar situations.  You don't want a dark skinned girl defaulting to a light skinned titsjob image.  Better that the game just defaults to a sex, oral, or whatever image in the girls folder; as it does now.

Guys, again: I do not want to remove details. I want to remove absolutely redundant tags.

• do strapon
• do strapon pussy
• do strapon anal

You see the problem here? It's redundant. Why does the do strapon tag exist if there are more precise ones? The same goes for do dildo.

Ahh, now I see what your saying.  if you have do dildo pussy and  do dildo anal, then do dildo is meaningless. 'Cuz that dildo is damn well going somewhere. 


Like I have said; I'm an end user.  I don't have to the knowledge or interest in hard coding.  The structure is up to you guys.  I'm just concerned with the end result.     

[Xela]

Maybe we could use structures like "dildo" + "anally" + "by girl" or "strapon" + "vaginally" + "to girl" instead. In case if dildo is not used, it's just dildo.

We thought about something along these lines before... I think it was rejected because it was before I've added the exclude to the image lookup process. Sounds like a decent idea that would eliminate a lot tags.

Unless someone can come up with a reason not to do it this way, it is definitely worth consideration.

***

Also, on the note of tag occurence: Why don't you just use a statistical approach, especially for general things like the customer gender. There are 10 male customer images for 1 female customer image, so why not have 10 times more male customers to balance it out? This could even be calculated when the tags are loaded.
Have fun!

Maybe one day... atm there are 10 000 things I'd consider more important that need to be done.

[DarkTl]

I wonder if we still need general tags for better sorting.

[Xela]

Ahh, now I see what your saying.  if you have do dildo pussy and  do dildo anal, then do dildo is meaningless. 'Cuz that dildo is damn well going somewhere. 

Well... matter of debate really.

do dildo pussy = Obvious text + Virginity check.
do dildo anal = Obvious Text
do dildo = All other pics where a girl is just holding a dildo with an evil look in her eyes or shoving it in clients mouse/between tits. It would allow to write better, more precise texts. It's a matter of debate if we require that but it's far from meaningless.

**This is being handled poorly in the game atm. We need to take a look at the jobs/events after new tagging system is ready.

[Xela]

I wonder if we still need general tags for better sorting.

Depends, we need some, something like:

"clean":  (no implicit sexual content tag)
"gm": (usable for girlsmeets)
"water_selection": (water activities related)
"indoor": (Automatically added if ANY indoor tag is picked, we could use general indoor this way I think)
"outdoor": (same)
are required.

CW is prolly more versed in both tagging and tags application than I am. Maybe he has more...

+ I don't know if we should anticipate male/futa characters as well... this is hard to say atm.

[Pinkutako]

Well... matter of debate really.

do dildo pussy = Obvious text + Virginity check.
do dildo anal = Obvious Text
do dildo = All other pics where a girl is just holding a dildo with an evil look in her eyes or shoving it in clients mouse/between tits. It would allow to write better, more precise texts. It's a matter of debate if we require that but it's far from meaningless.

Perhaps meaningless was a poor choice.  At some point in the job text that dildo is going somewhere.  I don't think you really want the job text to read something like "The girl stood over her client holding a dildo with an evil look in her eye." and then just stop there.  the image may only display that but the game text should followup on the action in those cases.  In cases where the dildo is being held like that the game can decide where it goes from there.  If anything, the old system needs more tags like do dildo tits or do dildo mouth.

DarkTi is on the right track.  a "action" + "body location" + "by/to who"  system is probably the best solution.  It also leaves room to add on conditions like "mood". 


For Example: an image of a girl holding a dildo with a neutral expression (because mood is not what we are talking about). would have the action tag "dildo" but nothing else.  This would leave it up to the game text to randomly decide where it's going and who is using it.  Or if the image shows the holding a dildo standing over a client it would have both action tag "dildo" + "by girl" and the "body location" on the client is left up to the game to decide.