PyTFall > PyTFall: Game design
New items concept
DarkTl:
Let's sort out items.
What I think about current system:
1) Body+arms+feet are overkill. Every time I create a cool armor, I have to duplicate it twice without a good reason. So there should be 1 body slot that includes all parts when needed.
2) I want underwear slot, probably not for MC though. It should be unavailable even for view, unless the girl is a slave or a lover (in which case it's 100% available like any other slot). It still exists though, and AI can choose what to wear.
3) Two slots, for big and small weapon, are fine. Though we shouldn't call them weapon slots anymore (there are shields, infamous dildo sword and stuff like fans), more like right and left hand slots.
4) All less important items like rings, amulets, capes, some of existing boots and gloves too should be combined into one general class. There should be several general slots, I think about 3-4.
You can put into these slots any general items (like cape+ring+boots, or three amulets for example) as long as their id is not the same (for example, you cannot wear three rings of constitution, but ring of constitution + small ring of constitution + ring of power are ok).
5) Misc slot is a problem. The very idea of gradually working items is fun and useful, but often we need this functional on non misc items, or we need misc items that give normal bonuses. Perhaps it could be possible to extend the idea, so that any item could be gradually working, yet giving normal bonuses at the same time too if needed?
6) If we free misc slot by sharing its mechanics, I'd rather use the slot itself for something else. Maybe for things like furniture (like our stripping pole) that give small bonuses to all girls in the current building, or for pets (we already have a couple).
7) Perhaps we should abandon the idea of changing traits via items. We don't have many traits, and they are quite important. It's also too simple to equip an item and stop being clumsy instantly.
8) How about requirements for items? Not stats, but occupation and rank. For example, only warriors can wear heavy armors, and only best of them (4 rank and higher) can wear dragon skin armor.
I know it reduces player's freedom though, at least occupation part. But rank part seems reasonable anyway.
9) I wonder if we need two slots for body, one for work and one for free time. Someone had this idea at some point, but I'm not really sure if it will be useful.
You see, warriors don't wear armor all the time (usually), and strippers don't continue to wear nothing after work too.
The problem is that we don't see girls too much outside of work, and when we do, items don't matter much either.
But the very idea is reasonable.
Of course we don't have to use second slot for such cases. In fact, we could use instead one more algorithm for autoequipping system, that based solely on traits and charisma, and not on other stats or occupation.
10) I'm not really sure about universal disposition bonus when you give an arbitrary item to a girl. Plate armor seems a bit inappropriate for a stripper, even very good plate armor, like from mithril.
In fact, I think that a stripper should refuse to take such an item, unless you already fully control her inventory, and have a disposition penalty.
So items could use gifting limitations, like bad occupation and bad trait. Iirc, so far we have good trait and bad trait fields only for autobuying system.
11) Gifts... I'm not really sure here. I think they should have something special about them, not just be items that rise disposition.
At very least they could rise arbitrary stats. Like joy or some skill.
12) Sex toys. I think we should put them in underwear slot too, they suit perfectly. Though you can wear both underwear and toy at the same time, but this is a minor discrepancy.
13) Elements for weapons and body armor. Like fire, water, etc. With numbers too (fire 2).
I'm not sure yet how will we use them in BE, but we can do it for sure. I basically don't want to set all elemental fields in the future, when we'll begin to work with BE, if I can do it right now, and the game could just ignore them meanwhile.
14) Sets.
They are arbitrary sets of items that could be equipped at the same time, and give some arbitrary bonuses when all items in a set are equipped currently.
Many people already asked for sets, so I guess we should give them.
The problem is how to tell the player how many items a set includes, how to tell that this item is a part of a set, and where and how to display this bonus.
All this can be written in description, but that seems quite clumsy to me.
Also, I kinda dislike the idea that we have to check all slots to determine if a set is completed or not. I guess we could use flags instead, so when you equip an item, it gives some hidden flag, and when there are enough such flags with the same id, they give a bonus.
15) I remember one of problems in our current items system!
It's about termination of temporary effects. If you drink a potion that temporary gives you 1000000 hp for one day, you will be dead the next morning without additional scripting. It's a major issue, really.
DarkTl:
Forgot about this one.
16) Locked slots for slaves. I mentioned them, it's when you can enable autoequipping, but lock some slots for it.
Xela:
--- Quote from: DarkTl on January 06, 2015, 02:37:26 PM ---Let's sort out items.
What I think about current system:
1) Body+arms+feet are overkill. Every time I create a cool armor, I have to duplicate it twice without a good reason. So there should be 1 body slot that includes all parts when needed.
--- End quote ---
Lets :)
I vote against this! (Do I get two votes as the most active member of the dev team? ::) )
I think if this is put to the vote, you'll loose every time. The lure of having a matching set of armor is too appealing and familiar.
--- Quote from: DarkTl on January 06, 2015, 02:37:26 PM ---2) I want underwear slot, probably not for MC though. It should be unavailable even for view, unless the girl is a slave or a lover (in which case it's 100% available like any other slot). It still exists though, and AI can choose what to wear.
--- End quote ---
... Yeah, slot is not a problem, but we have content for underwear with current system? And i don't like all the extra logic, not at this development stage anyway. Basically I don't care, if noone object added complexity, this is on as a new slot.
--- Quote from: DarkTl on January 06, 2015, 02:37:26 PM ---3) Two slots, for big and small weapon, are fine. Though we shouldn't call them weapon slots anymore (there are shields, infamous dildo sword and stuff like fans), more like right and left hand slots.
--- End quote ---
As long as we don't allow dual weapon yielding with super bonuses. I have a bit of an issue with this because one would expect being able to equip two large weapons and also distinguish between large weapon that requires two hands. Our items system is already very advanced... stuff like this messes it up even further. I don't even know how to vote here becaues I don't know what "baggage" this "simple" request carries with it.
--- Quote from: DarkTl on January 06, 2015, 02:37:26 PM ---4) All less important items like rings, amulets, capes, some of existing boots and gloves too should be combined into one general class. There should be several general slots, I think about 3-4.
You can put into these slots any general items (like cape+ring+boots, or three amulets for example) as long as their id is not the same (for example, you cannot wear three rings of constitution, but ring of constitution + small ring of constitution + ring of power are ok).
--- End quote ---
I plainly vote against... why would we want unspecified accessory slots when we have good content for specific slots?
--- Quote from: DarkTl on January 06, 2015, 02:37:26 PM ---5) Misc slot is a problem. The very idea of gradually working items is fun and useful, but often we need this functional on non misc items, or we need misc items that give normal bonuses. Perhaps it could be possible to extend the idea, so that any item could be gradually working, yet giving normal bonuses at the same time too if needed?
--- End quote ---
I am not sure... misc items always have their own logic when applied all over the code. Maybe we can do something like allowing any item having misc/normal.consumable "Effects" (for internal use with the game). Maybe it can work, maybe there will be some deal breaker in the code, I can't tell atm.
--- Quote from: DarkTl on January 06, 2015, 02:37:26 PM ---6) If we free misc slot by sharing its mechanics, I'd rather use the slot itself for something else. Maybe for things like furniture (like our stripping pole) that give small bonuses to all girls in the current building, or for pets (we already have a couple).
--- End quote ---
Maybe...
--- Quote from: DarkTl on January 06, 2015, 02:37:26 PM ---7) Perhaps we should abandon the idea of changing traits via items. We don't have many traits, and they are quite important. It's also too simple to equip an item and stop being clumsy instantly.
--- End quote ---
Any idea simplifies the concept without compromising gameplay, I support. This is one of those ideas. We can come up with series of events to control some traits if we that is required. Or counters/large events during the gameplay.
--- Quote from: DarkTl on January 06, 2015, 02:37:26 PM ---8) How about requirements for items? Not stats, but occupation and rank. For example, only warriors can wear heavy armors, and only best of them (4 rank and higher) can wear dragon skin armor.
I know it reduces player's freedom though, at least occupation part. But rank part seems reasonable anyway.
--- End quote ---
We discussed this. There is already a powerful, complicated mechanic in place that negates effects of powerful items when equipped on weak characters... Adding more..., whenever we add more to something that (imo) we've already taken care of (to a good degree), we are f%cking up the game and ourselfs along with it. At least that's how I feel about it.
--- Quote from: DarkTl on January 06, 2015, 02:37:26 PM ---9) I wonder if we need two slots for body, one for work and one for free time. Someone had this idea at some point, but I'm not really sure if it will be useful.
You see, warriors don't wear armor all the time (usually), and strippers don't continue to wear nothing after work too.
The problem is that we don't see girls too much outside of work, and when we do, items don't matter much either.
But the very idea is reasonable.
Of course we don't have to use second slot for such cases. In fact, we could use instead one more algorithm for autoequipping system, that based solely on traits and charisma, and not on other stats or occupation.
--- End quote ---
Yeap, one line of code can do this for you without any additional code (autoequip method you've mentioned). We just need to add casual set to it but it's very easy to do. Basically I vote yes in favor of using auto-equip system.
--- Quote from: DarkTl on January 06, 2015, 02:37:26 PM ---10) I'm not really sure about universal disposition bonus when you give an arbitrary item to a girl. Plate armor seems a bit inappropriate for a stripper, even very good plate armor, like from mithril.
In fact, I think that a stripper should refuse to take such an item, unless you already fully control her inventory, and have a disposition penalty.
So items could use gifting limitations, like bad occupation and bad trait. Iirc, so far we have good trait and bad trait fields only for autobuying system.
--- End quote ---
You don't get any bonus when giving items to characters atm unless it's through gift system. I acutally have no idea what happens if you give them items that raise disposition, I prolly just coded that like you've asked me to when the system was initially designed. I can take a look at the code and find out, logically, I would think that only consumable items could have such effect when being equipped (consumed).
--- Quote from: DarkTl on January 06, 2015, 02:37:26 PM ---11) Gifts... I'm not really sure here. I think they should have something special about them, not just be items that rise disposition.
At very least they could rise arbitrary stats. Like joy or some skill.
--- End quote ---
Joy is a good bet, maybe they already do. Skill, we have plenty of other items for that, it's not the purpose of gifts to do so.
--- Quote from: DarkTl on January 06, 2015, 02:37:26 PM ---12) Sex toys. I think we should put them in underwear slot too, they suit perfectly. Though you can wear both underwear and toy at the same time, but this is a minor discrepancy.
--- End quote ---
I think they should be misc... seems like a bloody good fit. Also it prevents overpowering through items that generate stuff while being worn (sex toys tend to have this effect in many games).
--- Quote from: DarkTl on January 06, 2015, 02:37:26 PM ---13) Elements for weapons and body armor. Like fire, water, etc. With numbers too (fire 2).
I'm not sure yet how will we use them in BE, but we can do it for sure. I basically don't want to set all elemental fields in the future, when we'll begin to work with BE, if I can do it right now, and the game could just ignore them meanwhile.
--- End quote ---
You can put anything you like in items fields and game will ignore it all for as long as it doesn't anticipate it. This is more or less a safe bet so it's reasonable.
--- Quote from: DarkTl on January 06, 2015, 02:37:26 PM ---14) Sets.
They are arbitrary sets of items that could be equipped at the same time, and give some arbitrary bonuses when all items in a set are equipped currently.
Many people already asked for sets, so I guess we should give them.
The problem is how to tell the player how many items a set includes, how to tell that this item is a part of a set, and where and how to display this bonus.
All this can be written in description, but that seems quite clumsy to me.
Also, I kinda dislike the idea that we have to check all slots to determine if a set is completed or not. I guess we could use flags instead, so when you equip an item, it gives some hidden flag, and when there are enough such flags with the same id, they give a bonus.
--- End quote ---
Sets are easier to add than you think.
From you I'll need:
"set": {name: "DragonBone Armor", effects: {"mod": {"magic": 100, "defence": 100, "attack": 100}, "max": {"attack": 100, "defence": 100}}, desc="Kickass armor set!"}
My approach would be to:
Add "name" to Effects and Description to tooltip when hovered (same as for traits).
If just one item of a set is equipped, there is a small red ball in the top left corner of the slot. If two or more, they turn yellow. If all (even if all is just two), they all turn green. Player can just click on the slot to take a look at the items name, it should be apparent when the entire set is called. In an odd case where it's not apparent, hint should be added to items description.
*I went with effects in my proposal because there is a system in place in the code where Effects can literally do whatever the f#ck. We can have item sets from developers and good modders that do truly unique things.
--- Quote from: DarkTl on January 06, 2015, 02:37:26 PM ---15) I remember one of problems in our current items system!
It's about termination of temporary effects. If you drink a potion that temporary gives you 1000000 hp for one day, you will be dead the next morning without additional scripting. It's a major issue, really.
--- End quote ---
I've fixed this very long time ago.
--- Quote from: DarkTl on January 06, 2015, 02:37:26 PM ---16) Locked slots for slaves. I mentioned them, it's when you can enable autoequipping, but lock some slots for it.
--- End quote ---
More else/elif forks...
DarkTl:
--- Quote from: Xela on January 06, 2015, 03:42:31 PM ---As long as we don't allow dual weapon yielding with super bonuses. I have a bit of an issue with this because one would expect being able to equip two large weapons and also distinguish between large weapon that requires two hands. Our items system is already very advanced... stuff like this messes it up even further. I don't even know how to vote here becaues I don't know what "baggage" this "simple" request carries with it.
--- End quote ---
Well, you could try to come up when better names. The fact remains that they are not longer just weapons.
There is no new logic involved, except "non-weapon" weapon type that I mentioned already. Shields just give you defence instead of attack.
--- Quote from: Xela on January 06, 2015, 03:42:31 PM ---... Yeah, slot is not a problem, but we have content for underwear with current system? And i don't like all the extra logic, not at this development stage anyway. Basically I don't care, if noone object added complexity, this is on as a new slot.
--- End quote ---
Content here is not a problem either. Logic makes perfect sense, the slot will be irrational without it. So if you don't want to code hidden stuff, the slot is useless. If you want to code it, I'll make it.
--- Quote from: Xela on January 06, 2015, 03:42:31 PM ---I plainly vote against... why would we want unspecified accessory slots when we have good content for specific slots?
--- End quote ---
...good content?
The very fact that we have a separate slot (even two in this case) for rings forces me to make multiple various rings. Same with amulets, same with capes.
Meanwhile most of them don't have a real meaning because I created them only to have them, not because I found a cool icon or had a decent idea. Using them as general items will provide freedom for creativity, and it also will allow us to freely use unusial items like earrings for example, as a part of those general items.
Basically, creating an armor or a weapon or even an underwear is much more simple and interesting process then creating those damn rings (let them burn in hell).
--- Quote from: Xela on January 06, 2015, 03:42:31 PM ---You don't get any bonus when giving items to characters atm unless it's through gift system. I acutally have no idea what happens if you give them items that raise disposition, I prolly just coded that like you've asked me to when the system was initially designed. I can take a look at the code and find out, logically, I would think that only consumable items could have such effect when being equipped (consumed).
--- End quote ---
Ok, now that's some news to me.
What does dismod field do then? :D
--- Quote from: Xela on January 06, 2015, 03:42:31 PM ---Joy is a good bet, maybe they already do.
--- End quote ---
Not in the json anyway. Maybe in the code, but I doubt it.
--- Quote from: Xela on January 06, 2015, 03:42:31 PM ---More else/elif forks...
--- End quote ---
That's more important (in terms of fetishes ::) ) than you probably think.
For example, you want slaves in collars, or, I don't know, maid slaves. Collar/maid gown equipped and locked, no more wasting time on it ever.
Xela:
--- Quote from: DarkTl on January 06, 2015, 04:17:54 PM ---Well, you could try to come up when better names. The fact remains that they are not longer just weapons.
--- End quote ---
We'll think on it...
--- Quote from: DarkTl on January 06, 2015, 04:17:54 PM ---There is no new logic involved, except "non-weapon" weapon type that I mentioned already. Shields just give you defence instead of attack.
--- End quote ---
I know... but it feels like new logic is required or at least expected :(
--- Quote from: DarkTl on January 06, 2015, 04:17:54 PM ---Content here is not a problem either. Logic makes perfect sense, the slot will be irrational without it. So if you don't want to code hidden stuff, the slot is useless. If you want to code it, I'll make it.
--- End quote ---
There is no difference between hidden and displayed slot other than a few lines of code in screens. I'll take a look at it... slots are easy, I just don't want a mess with too many slots and hidden slot is not a good idea because you don't even know if characters has anything equipped.
--- Quote from: DarkTl on January 06, 2015, 04:17:54 PM ---...good content?
The very fact that we have a separate slot (even two in this case) for rings forces me to make multiple various rings. Same with amulets, same with capes.
Meanwhile most of them don't have a real meaning because I created them only to have them, not because I found a cool icon or had a decent idea. Using them as general items will provide freedom for creativity, and it also will allow us to freely use unusial items like earrings for example, as a part of those general items.
--- End quote ---
I don't like characters being able to equip multiple boots and capes. Even amulets seems odd. I can add this on the review but I believe it's a loss to the game.
--- Quote from: DarkTl on January 06, 2015, 04:17:54 PM ---Ok, now that's some news to me.
What does dismod field do then? :D
--- End quote ---
It does nothing. We (or I) never figured how to use it property because items can be taken from characters, unequipped, bought by them in shops while being impossible to tag individually (I recall that I've already explained why). So in order not to create a really, really freaky mess, it was never coded in.
--- Quote from: DarkTl on January 06, 2015, 04:17:54 PM ---Not in the json anyway. Maybe in the code, but I doubt it.
--- End quote ---
I'll take a look, it can be done based on disposition bonus they provide. I think just giving them gifts should simply give joy in the label (being the only play where a gift can be given).
--- Quote from: DarkTl on January 06, 2015, 04:17:54 PM ---That's more important (in terms of fetishes ::) ) than you probably think.
For example, you want slaves in collars, or, I don't know, maid slaves. Collar/maid gown equipped and locked, no more wasting time on it ever.
--- End quote ---
Right... I'll lock some items on a review. We can add a field ("locked": true) for example.
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