Pink Petal Games

PyTFall => PyTFall: Game design => Topic started by: DarkTl on December 12, 2014, 09:15:24 AM

Title: New image tagging concept
Post by: DarkTl on December 12, 2014, 09:15:24 AM
Here is the list of existing tags and their description. Red are main tags, green are minor tags.

* SFW: pictures with a girl doing nothing, or something insignificant that doesn't matter much; also without any sexual or nude content, ie Safe For Work.
- girlmeets: this tag states that a picture is usable for girlsmeets, ie meeting with a girl somewhere. Not every picture could be tagged with it, for example things like sitting on invisible chairs or lying characters probably should not have this tag.
- battle: pictures that could be used at arena, after exploration, etc. Ie when a character is ready for combat or for example has a weapon, but not actually fighting with someone.
- rest: pictures that depict resting characters. They could sleep, lie somewhere, drink tea, play a game (not a sport game, more like video games or chess).
- beauty: tag for beauty school and similar activities, like applying makeup or combing hair.
- etiquette: same for etiquette school and similar activities, like showing skill in, knowledge of or otherwise displaying high society behavior or an action that can be associated with it.

* Nude: pictures with any explicit nudity. For example, bikini and lingerie don't fit here as long as they are not transparent, topless does.

* Natural nude: only for cases when nudity is absolutely normal and very common for the character (usually androids or monsters like slimes).

* Battle_sprite - specific pictures that are used in BE, with characters ready for combat. They should be backgroundless.

* Portrait - characters portraits without backgrounds, ie head only. Widely used, ideally there should be 1 portrait per emotion if possible. Also ideally either clothes should be the same, or they should not be seen.

* Sprite - full sized pictures without background that suit portraits. Meaning that ideally there shouldn't be much difference in clothes between sprite and portrait pictures if portraits display clothes.
We don't need many, but we need at least one, preferably with neutral expression.

These tags could be used regardless of other tags.
Emotion tags:
Angry, confident, defiant, ecstatic, happy, indifferent, in pain, insane, sad, scared, shy, suggestive, tired, uncertain.
Emotion tags are not not mutually exclusive, often expression of the character is a mix of several emotions.

Places tags:
No bg: pictures with transparent backgrounds. Unlike sprites, these pictures could be unsuitable for portraits.
Simple bg: pictures with monochromatic and/or indeterminate background, usually it's pure white color or some abstract pattern.
Usually in both cases it's impossible to describe location, though sometimes you can say if it's indoors or outdoors.

Specific places:
*These tags are mutually exclusive.
- beach;
- stage;
- onsen;
- pool;
The difference between common and specific places is that latter ones can and will be used for events easily, and they are common enough (for example, arena could be useful too in theory, but it's way too rare).

Common places:
*Note that following tags are not mutually exclusive, unlike specific places tags.
- outdoors and indoors; you can use one of them almost always, and when you can't, it's usually no bg or simple bg.
Here tags system becomes a bit hierarchical.
For outdoors:
- urban: represents places inside of a city. It could be a street, a park, a market.
- wildness: represents places without any traces of civilization. It could be a forest, a cave, a meadow, even some old ruins.
- suburb: none of the above. Meaning that there are traces of civilization, like a road, a tavern or a small village, but clearly not a big city.
- nature: general tag that represents stuff like a lot of trees and plants. Ie urban+nature = park or garden, wildness+narute = forest or meadow.

For indoors:
- living: all rooms that look suitable for normal living, from bedroom to dining hall; even though one can live in warehouse, it's hardly normal.
- dungeon: pictures with dungeons/prisons/torturing rooms, ie anything suitable for bdsm stuff and slave training.
- public: clearly public places, from library to bar.

- Time: autumn, evening, night, winter. These tags are used to exclude obviously inappropriate by time pictures.

- Clothes:
Specific ones:
- lingetie;
- maid;
- miko;
- nurse;
- yukata;
- schoolgirl;
- sportswear;
- dog, cat, cow, bunny;
- armor;
- swimsuit;
- no clothes.
They are very easy to identify, they are very common and they are fetishes (more or less). No pony, they are too rare.
General ones:
- everyday clothes: usual, standard clothes for the character. There are characters that stick to one certain type of clothes most of time, like armor or maid dress, this is especially useful for them.
- revealing clothes: more revealing clothes than usual, if possible. Like miniskirt or shorts for example.
- formal clothes: clothes that are suitable for high society actions. It's usually some rich-looking dress.
- indoor clothes: clothes that considered absolutely unsuitable for outdoors in any case, like pajamas.
You can use both specific and general clothes tags for the same picture to describe it better if you find it suitable. For example school uniform could be more or less revealing.
You can use only general tags if non of specific ones is suitable.

Additional tags that should be used together with other clothes tags:
- ripped: when clothes are clearly damaged a lot. Could be useful for events.
- cosplay: any type of cosplay.
- transformed: for characters that can transform to some another form.

Action tags:
bathing (all kinds from shower to pool), cleaning, cooking, dancing, eating, exercising, fighting, gambling, healing, magic, musician, reading, sleeping, shopping, singing, sport, studing/reading, waitress, striptease (not just nude, but actually show it on purpose).

BDSM: bondage actions without a sex as such.
- leashed, restrained, suspended, whipped, spanked: these actions are quite common and useful for ST.
- tortured: suffers pain except whips and spanking.
- dominatrix: the girl is the mistress there, anything else doesn't matter much since such pictures are quite rare already.
- guy/girl/partner hidden/alone: if the girl is not mistress, then who is mistress/master. Or if she's alone on the picture.
- cumcovered: for case when during bdsm action girl is covered by it, but still without sex as such.

Masturbation: self-pleasure. *It does not exclude bdsm, sex and group, since it's totally possible to do it anytime and anywhere.
- vibrator, dildo, anal plug, anal beads, other toy, random item, tits vibrator, etc.: how it's going on exactly. It case of hand (foot, tail) non of these additional tags are needed. Note that vibrators are commonly used on tits too, so there is a tag for it.
- forced: for using with bdsm when character is forced to use a toy. Because sometimes they are not even during bdsm.

Normal Sex: any type of sexual activity with one partner.
- girl, guy: a partner.
- partner hidden: when you cannot see who's the girl's partner, or when it could be almost anyone.
Depending on partner's gender there will be different options available.
Sex to girl is what partner does to her. Perfermed by girl is what she does to partner.
In case of girl partner fuck ass and fuck pussy options mean strapon using.
- rape, restrained: how forced is it.

Group: group sex.
- one/two/three/more girls, one/two/three/more guys: amount of partners that actually busy with the girl. Those who fuck/fucked by someone else are not included.
- guy hidden, girl hidden: related to those characters above who busy with the girl, if at least one guy/girl could be considered as unrecognizable.
- bukkake: if you don't know what is it, you could call it multimasturblowjob, I guess.
- not main participant: means that the girl is not the main participant. Without this tag all or almost all fuck her, with this tag she's just another regular part of a group action.
- others masturbate: means that there are characters who look at the group action and masturbate because of it. While not being a part of it, ie too far for bukkake for example.
- rape, restrained: how forced is it.
- ass, pussy, mouth, hands, tits, feet: currently active body parts of the girl.

A universal tag: cum covered. For pictures where nothing is really happened right now, yet girl is covered by it, no matter her pose and clothes.

New Ingame Tags:
    new_tags_dict = {
    # Main Tags:
    'nn': 'sfw',
    'nd': 'nude', # Nude Main Tag (Used to be subtag)
    'nn': 'naturalnude',
    'sx': 'sex',
    'bs': 'battle_sprite',
    'po': 'portrait',
    'qs': 'vnsprite', # Used to be quest
   
    # Nude/SFW Subtags:
    'pr': 'profile',
    'pa': 'girlmeets',
    'pb': 'battle',
    'pc': 'rest',
    'pd': 'beauty',   
    'pf': 'etiquette',
   
    # Locations:
    'l1': 'no bg',
    'l2': 'simple bg',
    'l3': 'outdoors',
    'l4': 'indoors',
    'l5': 'beach',
    'l6': 'onsen',
    'l7': 'pool',
    'l8': 'stage',
    'l9': 'urban',
    'la': 'wildness',
    'lb': 'suburb',
    'lc': 'nature',
    'ld': 'dungeon',
    'le': 'living',
    'lf': 'public',
   
    # Emotions:
    'e1': 'angry',
    'e2': 'confident',
    'e3': 'defiant',
    'e4': 'ecstatic',
    'e5': 'happy',
    'e7': 'in pain',
    'e6': 'indifferent',
    'e9': 'sad',
    'e8': 'insane',   
    'ea': 'scared',
    'ec': 'suggestive',
    'eb': 'shy',
    'ed': 'tired',
    'ee': 'uncertain',
   
    # Clothes:
    'c9': 'lingerie',
    'c8': 'no clothes',
    'c3': 'indoor',
    'c2': 'formal',
    'c1': 'everyday',
    'c7': 'transformed',
    'c6': 'cosplay',
    'c5': 'ripped',
    'c4': 'revealing',
    'ca': 'armor',
    'ck': 'cow',
    'cj': 'cat',
    'ci': 'bunny',
    'ch': 'yukata',
    'cm': 'ninja',
    'cl': 'dog',
    'cc': 'maid',
    'cb': 'swimsuit',
    'cg': 'sportswear',
    'cf': 'schoolgirl',
    'ce': 'nurse',
    'cd': 'miko',
   
    # Actions:
    'a1': 'stripping',
    'a3': 'cleaning',
    'a2': 'bathing',
    'a5': 'dancing',
    'a4': 'cooking',
    'a7': 'exercising',
    'a6': 'eating',
    'a9': 'gambling',
    'a8': 'fighting',
    'aa': 'healing',
    'ac': 'musician',
    'ab': 'magic',
    'ae': 'sleeping',
    'ad': 'reading',
    'ag': 'singing',
    'af': 'shopping',
    'ai': 'studying',
    'ah': 'sport',
    'aj': 'waitress',
   
    # Sex Actions:
    # Masturbation:
    'ma': 'masturbation',
    'm5': 'randomitem',
    'm4': 'othertoy',
    'm7': 'titsvibrator',
    'm2': 'analplug',
    'm1': 'analbeads',
    'm3': 'dildo',
    'm6': 'vibrator',
    'm8': 'forced',
   
    # Cumcovered:
    'cu': 'after sex',
   
    # Group:
    'gr': 'group',
    'gg': 'ass',
    'gf': 'group restrained',
    'ge': 'group rape',
    'gd': 'othersmast',
    'gc': 'notmain',
    'gb': 'bukkake',
    'ga': 'girlhidden',
    'gl': 'tits',
    'gk': 'feet',
    'gj': 'hands',
    'gi': 'mouth',
    'gh': 'pussy',
    'g7': 'threegirls',
    'g6': 'twogirls',
    'g5': 'onegirl',
    'g4': 'moreguys',
    'g3': 'threeguys',
    'g2': 'twoguys',
    'g1': 'oneguy',
    'g9': 'guyhidden',
    'g8': 'moregirls',
   
    # BDSM:
    'bc': 'cumcovered',
    'bd': 'bdsm',
    'b4': 'suspended',
    'b5': 'whipped',
    'b6': 'tortured',
    'b7': 'alone',
    'b1': 'leashed',
    'b2': 'bdsm restrained',
    'b3': 'spanked',
    'b8': 'girl',
    'b9': 'hiddengirl',
    'be': 'dominatrix',
    'ba': 'guy',
    'bb': 'hiddenguy',
   
    # "Normal" Sex:
    'ns': 'normalsex',
    'p2': 'straight',
    'p3': 'partnerhidden',
    'p1': 'gay', # Former "les"
   
    # poses:
    's9': 'standing',
    's8': 'spooning',
    's3': 'missionary',
    's2': 'doggy',
    's1': '69',
    's6': 'scissors',
    's5': 'ontop',
    's4': 'onside',
    's7': 'sitting',
    'sb': 'restrained',
    'sa': 'rape',
   
    # Sex to character: (startswith 2c *To Character of the image)
    'sl': '2c hug',
    'sc': '2c analfingering',
    'se': '2c lickanus',
    'sg': '2c analtoy',
    'sf': '2c lickpussy',
    'sh': '2c vaginaltoy',
    'si': '2c anal',
    'sj': '2c vaginal',
    'sk': '2c kiss',
    'sm': '2c caresstits',
    'sd': '2c vaginalfingering',
   
    # Sex done by character: (startswith bc *To Character of the image)
    'sz': 'bc vaginalfootjob',
    'sy': 'bc analfootjob',
    'ss': 'bc hug',
    'sr': 'bc handjob',
    'sp': 'bc footjob',
    'sw': 'bc vaginalhandjob',
    'sv': 'bc analhandjob',
    'su': 'bc titsjob',
    'st': 'bc kiss',
    'so': 'bc deepthroat',
    'sn': 'bc blowjob',
    't6': 'bc toypussy',
    't7': 'bc caresstits',
    't4': 'bc vaginal',
    't5': 'bc toyanal',
    't2': 'bc lickpussy',
    't3': 'bc anal',
    't1': 'bc lickanus',

    # Time/Season:
    'z1': 'evening',
    'z4': 'winter',
    'z2': 'night',
    'z3': 'autumn'
    }
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: livingforever on December 12, 2014, 02:48:23 PM
Hi!
Alright, let's see.
First thing I noticed (something that I propably mentioned already): You're not introducing a new concept, you just made some changes to the tags. It doesn't make a difference for the topic, but misleading titles are never a good thing.

Anyway, since you did some cleaning up, here are a few problems that I still see:
Possible solutions:Have fun!
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: Xela on December 12, 2014, 03:31:21 PM
I'd like to keep deepthroat.

Quest is meant to represent a normal vn type of sprite. There are no tricks to it really... it means full height, normal look as in clothing player can associate the character with.

This is not a new concept as living pointed out. We are looking to add bondage, group and slavetraining pics and emotions. We are also looking to add tags to make lookup process simpler and more convinient to coders and content creators by adding tags such as clean, nude, sexual, girlsmeets and etc.

There is sadly no example that we can follow as ours is the most comlicated tagging system I've seen or am aware of.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: livingforever on December 12, 2014, 03:34:11 PM
Quest is meant to represent a normal vn type of sprite.
Right, I remember you mentioned that before.
In that case it should just be called sprite. The battle sprite tag could be removed (just use sprite and battle instead).

We are also looking to add tags to make lookup process simpler and more convinient to coders and content creators by adding tags such as clean, nude, sexual, girlsmeets and etc.
While I do agree that those tags are useful, I think it would be best to ignore them until all other tags are done. Adding convenience tags later internally is very simple and not important before the rest isn't finished.
Have fun!
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: Xela on December 12, 2014, 03:54:40 PM
*We could rename nobg tag to sprite, it may even be sensible. The trouble is that our tags lookups work like a database.  Sprite by itself will return any picture that is tagged with sprite, so no distinction will be made between battlesprites and sprites. I can look into improving lookup process...

**Edit: Decided to let it be until this is actually required...
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: DarkTl on December 13, 2014, 07:45:23 AM
You're not introducing a new concept, you just made some changes to the tags. It doesn't make a difference for the topic, but misleading titles are never a good thing.
It is a new thread about image tagging concept. I can't believe you actually want to discuss something as minor as another temporary thread's name.

   
  • Whenever this phrase applies it is generally a bad thing because it means that the tag is not distinct enough (e.g. beauty, etiquette, girlmeets, fashionable).
  • Quest - Your description says that there shouldn't be much difference to a portrait... so why is it there in the first place?
  • Emotions - I can't really see an obvious difference between confident and happy and between shy and uncertain.
  • Bunny, cat, cow, dog - All unified as cosplay, is it necessary to be more detailed?
  • Pyjamas, nurse, maid, sportswear, ... - Those essentially describe actions, not clothing, therefore the action tag should be enough (how a character dresses for the particular action isn't relevant, is it).
  • Actions - Redundancy with clothing, see above.
  • Sex equipment - Dildos and strapons are sex toys, sex toys are devices, devices are items. I don't think that a generalization hierarchy is how these tags should be handled.
  • Deepthroat - Very detailed and somewhat hard to determine for most pictures.
  • Group - Still has the problem that active and passive are being mixed together. Wether that is acceptable or not depends on how detailed you want to descripe the pictures on the front end.[/l][/l][/l][/l][/l][/l][/l][/l][/l][/l][/l][/l]
1. We cannot adapt pictures, so we should adapt tags somehow instead.
I'm not sure about casual/fashionable/formal tags too, at very least we need better rules here. But I simply cannot describe etiquette and girlmeet tags better. If you can write better descriptions, feel free to do so.
3. I can, they are used in my packs, you can look at them. Emotion tags are not mutually exclusive btw. In fact, they still don't cover everything (like madness, very common for yandere).
4. I guess. They are pretty rare anyway.
5. Not always. There are plenty of actions you can do in pyjamas or nurse outfit, not just sleep or heal. Usually sexual actions, but not always.
7. Device means something other than didlos and strapons, random item means things that are not designed for sex at all. If you have better names, I'll change it.
9. I know. But I have no idea how to handle it better than just ignore some details. It's not like I don't want to desribe them.

Sprites, battle sprites and no bg tags:
- I changed quest to sprite. Sprites should be visually compatible with portraits.
- Battle sprites are used in BE, and only there. Might as well use a special tag for them.
- No_bg pictures are not equal to sprites. There are even nude/striptease pictures without bg, you simply cannot use them everywhere, especially with portraits.




@Xela, you can close the old thread, just don't delete it. And stick this one instead.[/list]
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: Xela on December 13, 2014, 08:09:50 AM
@Xela, you can close the old thread, just don't delete it. And stick this one instead.

Done.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: livingforever on December 13, 2014, 03:01:34 PM
Hi!
It is a new thread about image tagging concept. I can't believe you actually want to discuss something as minor as another temporary thread's name.
1. We cannot adapt pictures, so we should adapt tags somehow instead.
I'm not sure about casual/fashionable/formal tags too, at very least we need better rules here. But I simply cannot describe etiquette and girlmeet tags better. If you can write better descriptions, feel free to do so.
No idea about etiquette because I still don't know what it's supposed to express.
Girlmeet is actually just a profile picture with attention focus on the player, so attentive or something similar would fit.

Emotion tags are not mutually exclusive btw.
That is a problem. Tags describing the same part of the picture with the same level of detail should always be mutually exclusive. That is not something that I just came up with, it's a psychological issue. If there's more than one choice you will almost never get usable results.
And yes, I did confirm that with your packs.

5. Not always. There are plenty of actions you can do in pyjamas or nurse outfit, not just sleep or heal. Usually sexual actions, but not always.
And in those cases it really matters what clothes the character is wearing?

7. Device means something other than didlos and strapons, random item means things that are not designed for sex at all. If you have better names, I'll change it.
It's not about the names, it's about the strange generalization.
The best thing would propably be to have a sex toy tag and an other item tag and remove all others.
Have fun!
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: Xela on December 14, 2014, 07:58:09 AM
!No idea about etiquette because I still don't know what it's supposed to express.
Girlmeet is actually just a profile picture with attention focus on the player, so attentive or something similar would fit.

These two are a bit offbase...

There are three approaches to tagging in games similar to ours:

*1 "Profile" pic and x amount of sex pics without tags (SimBro 1x, MisBro)
*Specific tags for each character (SM series, partly OW)
*Tags for each picture (WM, most SimBro games)

And than there is our system designed by Rudi that very thoroughly tags the pictures in attempt to pick the best possible option for each event... originally the lookup process was supposed to give a "weight" for every tag (default 100, no limits). I decided not to do that because that seemed difficult to code (at my skilllevel 2 years ago) and hard to debug so we went with simpler approach (I think I've described it already).

etiquette for example is a picture of characters showing skill in, knowledge of or otherwise displaying high society behavior or an action that can be associated with it.

It can be a very well (expensive) dressed character in a beautiful room, or character that shows courtesy, or a well dressed character having a tea from a nice cup and etc. These are used during etiquette training (skills in refinement) or during jobs that we do not yet have. This is a "base" tag that is enriched by other tags like mood, dancing, service and etc...

Girlsmeets we can prolly do without especially if we go with the "sex", "clean", "nude" prime tags. *Note here that we should prolly have no_cloth tag if we don't already have one.

That is a problem. Tags describing the same part of the picture with the same level of detail should always be mutually exclusive. That is not something that I just came up with, it's a psychological issue. If there's more than one choice you will almost never get usable results.

I am not sure that is true:

confident, defiant

angry, defiant

sad, scared

tired, uncertain

are in no way mutually exclusive. In fact, a very common picture is that of a tired and confident character after a battle has been won... We are not using this a lot atm so I am not sure how it will play out in practice. One thing I can tell that even a simple "sad", "happy", "indifferent" auto lookup I've added is working out really well. One can see girls mood just by looking at picture, it's a huge improvement already.

And in those cases it really matters what clothes the character is wearing?

ATM: No, writing events like that is something we cannot afford with dev team of our size. It's impossible to say what will happen in few years from now.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: Xela on December 14, 2014, 09:29:21 AM
Profile - when a girl does nothing, or something insignificant that doesn't matter much. Pictures that you usually can see in girl's profile every turn.
- beauty: tag for beauty school and similar activities, like applying makeup before a mirror; sometimes it can be used with profile tag, sometimes not, it's up to pack maker.
- etiquette: same for etiquette school and similar activities.
- girlmeets: this tag states that a picture is usable for girlsmeets. Not every picture could be tagged with it, things like sitting on invisible chairs or lying characters probably should not have this tag.
- battle - for pictures that could be used at arena, after exploration ,etc. Ie when a character is ready for combat or for example has a weapon, but not actually fighting.

We could review profile and girlsmeets tags...

Battle_sprite - specific pictures that are used in BE. They should be backgroundless.

Sprite - characters portraits without backgrounds. Widely used, ideally there should be 1 portrait per emotion. Also ideally either clothes should be the same, or they should not be seen.

battle_sprite is solid.

Sprite is a bit odd. It means the same thing as "portrait".

Quest - full sized pictures without background that suit portraits. Meaning that ideally there shouldn't be much difference in clothes between quest and portrait pictures if portraits display clothes.
We don't need many, but we need at least one.

Tags that could exist regardless of other tags.
- Emotions: angry, confident, defiant, ecstatic, happy, indifferent, sad, scared, shy, tired, uncertain.

- Places:
- beach;
- nature (meaning forest/meadow/anything else with plants and stuff, things park go here, since even when you can the difference, it's not very important in the game);
- wildness (caves, rocks, etc. ie anything outside of city that cannot use nature tag);
- living room (for all rooms that look suitable for living, and generic indoor for others);
- city (for urban outdoor pics);
- stage; this tag is pretty rare, but it will help to exclude generally unsuitable pictures that still could be used for jobs and events;
- generic indoor and generic outdoor for all others that are not suitable for above-mentioned tags.

Quest: (We wanted to rename this to Sprite?) Same clothes, preferably a normal haircut (most characters have one). Different basic moods are an options here but at least one with indifferent (no particular mood) tag should be there.

I should prolly auto-exclude everything except summer unless specified... Will try to look into it if this bugs us (hasn't so far).

Nature is a bit of an issue here... it doesn't seem to be useful at all as getting a picture of deep woods in the park is just as absurd as getting a picture of park in deep woods. Might be best to simply remove this and use backgrounds and quest-like tags instead.

*In fact... As I've recently displayed in SE, it's quite easy to create pictures from backgrounds + Quest-type pics for jobs as well. Getting a correct picture from tags is very, very difficult due to there being so few and them being very hard to describe properly (or rather requiring dozens of tags to describe locations properly). We need beach... we need indoor and outdoor and living room, city and stage I can understand even though I've in practice. The thing here is that I am not entirely sure that we'll have an instance when we will be able to use nature or wilderness instead of general outdoors. They are not specific enough...

- Clothes:
- armor, bikini, dominatrix, lingetie, maid, miko, nurse, pajamas, plugsuit, schoolgirl, sportswear, swimsuit are self-explanatory.
- exposed (not actually nude or topless, but not "safe for work" either),  ripped (when clothes are clearly damaged a lot), topless, nude (no or almost no clothes at all).
- cosplay: any type of cosplay, including animals.
- transformed: for characters that can transform to some another form with different clothes.
- casual, formal, fashionable: now these could be a bit tricky. It often depends on character and pack maker. For example, if some character has 95% images with maid clothes tag, then normal clothes that would be casual for other characters will be fashionable, and all those maid pictures will be casual+maid.

-Background:
- no bg: pictures with transparent backgrounds. Not all formats support it, currently we mostly use png.
- simple bg: pictures with monochromatic and/or indeterminate background, usually it's pure white color or some abstract pattern.

Action tags: bathing (all kinds from shower to pool), cleaning, cooking, dancer, eating, exercising, fighting, gambling, healing, wounded, magic, musician, reading, rest, shopping, singer, sport, studing, undress, waitress, striptease.

Clothes... I've suggested to create "primetags":

sex: Explicit Sexual Content
nude: Any explicit nudity (even a nipple showing), bikini does NOT fit here, topless does.
clean: Pic without any sexual or nude content.

If we do this, clothing "nude" tag will have to be renamed or primetag will have to be given a different name.

We're not doing cow, neko, pony and etc. here?

No "onsen" specific tag in actions or locations? Bathing seems to general... it's a popular option (working, resting in onsen).

Sex - any type of sexual activity.
- equipment: anal toy, dildo, device, random item, strapon.
- partner: one/two/three/more girls/guys, partner hidden.
- sex poses: 69, doggy, missionary, onside, ontop, scissors, sitting, spooning, standing.
- additional tag: deepthroat (only for blowjob actions).
- active/passive, fuck or be fucked.
- action type: anal/oral/vaginal/hand/foot/masturbation.
So if we have two phrases: 1)passive+female+vaginal+strapon 2)active+female+oral+vaginal, it means les action where the character is fucked by strapon while licking (somehow) her partner's vagina.

Group is basically any sex tag + more than 1 partner. Often it's difficult to describe resulting pose, so we avoid it.  We still could use sex action and zones tags to describe in general what's going on with the girl. Ie in case of double penetration we take vaginal+anal. If she also uses her hands, we throw handjob too.
In case of group actions it's enough to specify partners and used character's body parts. For example, three guys+vaginal+anal+oral.
Group pictures have one subtag: bukkake.
There is one general sex tag: cum covered. It requires no partner, and it's a universal tag, since almost anything could happen with the girl before she became like this. So it could be used in many cases if there is no a better picture.

For bdsm:
- restrained, suspended, whipped, spanked, they are quite common and useful for ST.
- leashed, quite common too.
- torturing, suffers pain except whips and spanking.
- forced orgasm, even though we could use restrained+ecstatic or something, it's not exactly the same, since it can be done without partners or even without restraining.

Your new sex approach seems absurd... I can't even begin to translate this into code:

Quote
So if we have two phrases: 1)passive+female+vaginal+strapon 2)active+female+oral+vaginal, it means les action where the character is fucked by strapon while licking (somehow) her partner's vagina.

"passive, active, female, vaginal, strapon, oral" so how in the world can you tell if passive should be applied to strapon, vaginal or oral? Same goes for active and same goes for strapon, who is being fucked with a strapon and how is impossible to tell.

Our sex tagging is very good... if you want, just improve on the system, don't try to replace it.

Group:
We need three distinctions here that are critical:
- Is character being taken by a group or is a part of a group taking someone else.
- Is it voluntary or not (when possible to tell).
- is it BDSM pic as well (just one tag, no extra description, cannot be BDSM tags in itself or subtags will come into conflict)
*I believe that we do no need to specify what a character is doing when being a part of a group at all. When being taken, only these are important: taken in ass, pussy, mouth, actively masturbating and if any of the member of a group are masturbating in the vicinity. The subtags you suggested will also be useful and can be used with other sex pics.


BDSM:
- torturing should be tortured.
Not sure we that we need forced orgasm.

Things to specify:
Is the character on receiving or dominating end.
Partner types (same system can be used as for sex)
I'd prefer a special tag if there is just the character present on the picture (because otherwise it would once again be required to exclude a lot of tags). *This can be automated through tagging software or through tags loading process (latter will prolly (very) slightly delay the game loading process).
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: CherryWood on December 14, 2014, 04:46:28 PM
Well, I can agree with this tag set, it's very similar to the old one so that's easy for me (and I also don't think that we need to describe group pics in much detail)


I'd like to keep girlsmeet tag or something like that to allow select images more suited for girl in the city.

Maybe some sort of "taking a nap" tag may be worth it for more rest description, those pictures are quite common. On the other hand, "studying" could pass as "reading" on most pics (I have only one obviously study picture so far and its full of modern math books that doesn't really fit into the game anyway.)
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: DarkTl on December 15, 2014, 03:38:07 AM
Girlsmeets we can prolly do without especially if we go with the "sex", "clean", "nude" prime tags. *Note here that we should prolly have no_cloth tag if we don't already have one.
I'll take a look at my packs tonight to show you some profile pictures that are not entirely suitable for girlmeets.
We have nude tag for that.

Sprite is a bit odd. It means the same thing as "portrait".

Quest: (We wanted to rename this to Sprite?)
My bad, these are consequences of a typo  :)

Nature is a bit of an issue here... it doesn't seem to be useful at all as getting a picture of deep woods in the park is just as absurd as getting a picture of park in deep woods. Might be best to simply remove this and use backgrounds and quest-like tags instead.
That's the problem. Very often you cannot even say if it's a forest or a park. It's just some grass or trees. In fact, there should be a huge background if you clearly can tell what is it, and in this case it's better to cut it.
So we might as well use nature.

We're not doing cow, neko, pony and etc. here?
I don't know. Should we? I don't care about such things, and living suggested to use cosplay for all of them, so I did.

Besides, if we do animals fetishes, there are other fetishes as well, like miko or schoolgirl. And you just suggested to get rid of them and use sex/nude/safe tags. I believe we should adhere to a common policy here.

onsen
I guess it's common and specific enough, yeah.

"passive, active, female, vaginal, strapon, oral" so how in the world can you tell if passive should be applied to strapon, vaginal or oral? Same goes for active and same goes for strapon, who is being fucked with a strapon and how is impossible to tell.
You misunderstood the concept. I proposed to form independent combinations of traits that the game reads as a single whole rather than several separated tags. Even though our sex tagging system is good, it uses a huge amount of traits.
It will be harder to code though.

Is the character on receiving or dominating end.
I thought about it. You see, even though it's simple to imagine such pictures, in reality they are extremely rare. Same goes for dominatrix clothes tag, though they are a bit less rare than "dominating end" pictures.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: Xela on December 15, 2014, 06:25:04 AM
I'll take a look at my packs tonight to show you some profile pictures that are not entirely suitable for girlmeets.
We have nude tag for that.

I know that there are plenty of those and if you want to add girlsmeets tag, I am all for it :) The reason I said that we prolly don't need one is that girlsmeets seem to be working fairly well atm.

We have nude tag that is related to clothing. nude prime that I proposed means not a sex or a clean picture. It is possible to get to with code (in most cases, not all, or at least not all cases without expanding and over-complicating lookup system) but it still will require an insane amount of database access and long and confusing code.

+ We can base tagging software off this and exclude tags or entire tag categories... so every pic would start with just three choices and unfold.

I think those three prime tags are worth the effort!

That's the problem. Very often you cannot even say if it's a forest or a park. It's just some grass or trees. In fact, there should be a huge background if you clearly can tell what is it, and in this case it's better to cut it.
So we might as well use nature.

Ok, but I still don't see how it's useful. If you don't know what to expect from a pic (farm, field, huge distant forest in the background, cleaned up part, messed up woods, deepwood and etc.) we cannot really use it in the game any better then generic outside... I don't mind if you want to tag it, just saying that I can't think of how we're going to use it.

.
I don't know. Should we? I don't care about such things, and living suggested to use cosplay for all of them, so I did.

Besides, if we do animals fetishes, there are other fetishes as well, like miko or schoolgirl. And you just suggested to get rid of them and use sex/nude/safe tags. I believe we should adhere to a common policy here.

Adhering to policies in game of this size is weird. We are very specific about sex pics and very vague (in comparison) about everything else. It's a positive thing when we can but there is no point in being religious about it.

Most games do the animal fetishes thing and miko/schoolgirl are different. It depends... if we're not planning to do this any time soon, we can drop it for now.

You misunderstood the concept. I proposed to form independent combinations of traits that the game reads as a single whole rather than several separated tags. Even though our sex tagging system is good, it uses a huge amount of traits.
It will be harder to code though.

How do you tag them? Same issue as I've described will arise during the tagging process. You'd have to store one set of sex tags for the pic, then another and maybe yet another afterwards... Living can translate them into tags we use now (and I would not have to change a thing) but interface for that might be confusing... you will also have trouble seeing how the image is tagged (you'd have to call some pop up window and view the combinations in use).

It's up to you... I don't believe this to be a good idea, in fact this seems a lot more confusing to me that what we have today. Also while I don't mind, any modder will have more issues with it due to being required calling one tag in the game while tagging with different tags in the software. *I have no desire to transform 4 tags back into one during the lookup process because that is absolutely crazy and useless btw.

I thought about it. You see, even though it's simple to imagine such pictures, in reality they are extremely rare. Same goes for dominatrix clothes tag, though they are a bit less rare than "dominating end" pictures.

Rare or not, they exist and may find their way into the game so we need a failproof process to sort them out so we don't get BS writing vs pictures scenarios.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: DarkTl on December 15, 2014, 07:10:12 AM
If you don't know what to expect from a pic (farm, field, huge distant forest in the background, cleaned up part, messed up woods, deepwood and etc.) we cannot really use it in the game any better then generic outside...
Not really, there are urban outside and wild outside at very least. So the picture can be used either  inside or outside of the city (or both, in case of nature).

Most games do the animal fetishes thing and miko/schoolgirl are different. It depends... if we're not planning to do this any time soon, we can drop it for now.
Most games that have well coded animal fetishes use only those characters that have these fetishes.

Btw miko outfit could be used as a part of some religious act, and schoolgirl uniform can be used in actual schools. I'd say it's worth to keep clothes along with main clothes tags that you proposed.

Rare or not, they exist and may find their way into the game so we need a failproof process to sort them out so we don't get BS writing vs pictures scenarios.
I don't use them, personally. I had like 3 in all my packs for all this time, so I decided to not include them at all. We can add such a tag as a failproof, of course.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: livingforever on December 15, 2014, 12:21:44 PM
+ We can base tagging software off this and exclude tags or entire tag categories... so every pic would start with just three choices and unfold.
Done. Not exclusive though (meaning that you can still tag a picture as profile after you tagged it as sex)... should they be?

I think those three prime tags are worth the effort!
Don't worry about it. I can handle it. Focus on the tags that aren't used just for sorting.

How do you tag them? Same issue as I've described will arise during the tagging process. You'd have to store one set of sex tags for the pic, then another and maybe yet another afterwards... Living can translate them into tags we use now (and I would not have to change a thing) but interface for that might be confusing... you will also have trouble seeing how the image is tagged (you'd have to call some pop up window and view the combinations in use).
Not really a problem. Actually, the system to tag images based on an approach very similar to DarkTI's method and then translate it back into the old tags is already implemented. Changing it to use that method for tags doesn't even require new code, just a slightly different configuration.
Have fun!
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: DarkTl on December 16, 2014, 06:40:57 AM
Great, now I'm uncertain how to handle sex tags.
I'll try to explain it better, so that you could tell what do you think.

Instead of using dozens of tags that would require a lot of space in gui btw, thus you could forget something during tagging, I propose to make a bit more complex structure.
Let's say we have a picture where the girl is fucked by another girl with dildo, meanwhile licking her somewhere.

In this case we form tags structures:
1) passive+dildo+vaginal
2) active+licking+vaginal
3) active+licking+anal
In these example we are not sure what's she licking, so we form two structures for active, and both of them are true. The game reads them not as separate 9 tags, but as 3 tags structures.

I'm not sure how difficult it could be to implement in both tagger and the game.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: Xela on December 16, 2014, 06:57:22 AM
Great, now I'm uncertain how to handle sex tags.
I'll try to explain it better, so that you could tell what do you think.

Instead of using dozens of tags that would require a lot of space in gui btw, thus you could forget something during tagging, I propose to make a bit more complex structure.
Let's say we have a picture where the girl is fucked by another girl with dildo, meanwhile licking her somewhere.

In this case we form tags structures:
1) passive+dildo+vaginal
2) active+licking+vaginal
3) active+licking+anal
In these example we are not sure what's she licking, so we form two structures for active, and both of them are true. The game reads them not as separate 9 tags, but as 3 tags structures.

I'm not sure how difficult it could be to implement in both tagger and the game.

I understood what you've meant after you've clarified the first post. Living said that it's not an issue, we presently have single tags for these combinations, that is what I'll expect tagging software to provide to the game. There is no point in unpacking those single tags into combinations again because it's just a lot of empty, useless code.

What I tried yo point out is that it will not be immediately apparent how the image is tagged because your setup means that one tag can be used twice or more for one picture. That in turn, needs a special set of instructions for sex tags... if you asked me to code this into a pseudo tagging concept I coded within the game itself, I would have said No :(

Basically, when I thought about how I'd go about the tagger myself, I came up with:
JSON:
Code: [Select]
tag: {shows_tags: [list to exclude from all groups], hides_tags: [list to include in all groups] shows_groups: [], hides_groups: []}
tag_group_1: [tags]
tag_group_2: [tags]
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: livingforever on December 16, 2014, 03:28:06 PM
Hi!
Guys really, stop worrying about the tagging, worry about the tags.

I don't have time to explain the way it is currently implemented right now, but if it turns out to be inconvenient for whatever you might come up with, I'll change it, no big deal.
Have fun!
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: Xela on December 17, 2014, 02:37:29 AM
We are talking tags mostly... those are bound to overlap at times.

I think we're getting close, just need to come up with (new) specific tags instead of general concept.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: DarkTl on December 22, 2014, 07:10:09 AM
Updated tags that go before double line. I need to think about others.

I already can tell that we should avoid too subjective terms for clothes like casual/fashionable.
- It's super subjective, up to the point that I'm myself not sure how to tag some clothes.
- It's useless for characters that usually wear a certain unusual type of clothes, like maid gown or armor. Armor or gown are casual for them, but not for others.
- This system does not include all types of clothes anyway. We have to use more specific tags to describe clothes better, so it doesn't help us much.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: DarkTl on December 28, 2014, 02:48:33 PM
Updated tags once more. I separated bdsm, sex and group categories completely and handled all cases I can think of.
Let me know if you believe that something should be changed.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: CherryWood on December 30, 2014, 03:45:39 AM
I like it so far, especially the locations.
Only those light/closed clothes are a bit confusing to me, what are those supposed to be used for?
I was thinking that we may maybe use a "everyday clothes" tag to know what are the standard clothes for the character. Sound less restrictive then old casual tag in case that the character wears something ridiculous all the time...
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: Xela on December 30, 2014, 04:50:31 AM
That's true... some of these tags may not be immediately or perhaps ever useful but we can't know that right now. This should be the last large review but we'll prolly have to do another one if we keep on developing this at some point.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: DarkTl on December 30, 2014, 09:57:29 AM
Remember how we disscussed once that depending on disposition level profile pictures could become more revealing (but still not nude) if possible? Here we are. Light is more revealing, closed is less. Perhaps we should just call them revealing though.
I agree with everyday tag, it will help a lot with many characters.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: DarkTl on January 08, 2015, 01:48:03 PM
Main tags:
sfw - fw
nude - nd
natural nude - nn
sex - sx
battle sprite - bs
portrait - po
sprite - qs
============================
profile: pr
girlmeets - pa
battle - pb
rest - pc
beauty - pd
etiquette - pf
============================
Location:
no bg - l1
simple bg - l2
outdoors - l3
indoors - l4
beach - l5
onsen - l6
pool - l7
stage - l8
urban - l9
wildness - la
suburb - lb
nature - lc
dungeon - ld
living - le
public - lf
============================
Emotions:
angry - e1
confident - e2
defiant - e3
esctatic - e4
happy - e5
indifferent - e6
in pain - e7
insane - e8
sad - e9
sacred - ea
shy - eb
suggestive - ec
tired - ed
uncertain - ee
=============================
clothes:
everyday - c1
formal - c2
indoor - c3
revealing - c4
ripped - c5
cosplay - c6
transformed - c7
no clothes - c8
lingerie - c9
armor - ca
swimsuit - cb
maid - cc
miko - cd
nurse - ce
schoolgirl - cf
sportswear - cg
yukata - ch
bunny - ci
cat - cj
cow - ck
dog - cl
ninja - cm
===========================
actions:
Striptease - a1
Bathing - a2
Cleaning - a3
Cooking - a4
Dancing - a5
Eating - a6
Exercising - a7
Fighting - a8
Gambling - a9
Healing - aa
Magic - ab
Musician - ac
Reading -ad
Sleeping -ae
Shopping - af
Singing - ag
Sport - ah
Studing - ai
Waitress - aj
==========================
masturbation: ma
Anal beads - m1
Anal plug - m2
Dildo - m3
Other toy - m4
Random item - m5
Vibrato - m6
Tits vibrator - m7
Forced - m8
==========================
cumcovered: cu
==========================
group: gr
one guy - g1
two guys - g2
three guys - g3
more guys - g4
one girl - g5
two girls - g6
three girls - g7
more girls - g8
guy hidden - g9
girl hidden - ga
bukkake - gb
not main - gc
others mast - gd
rape - ge
restrained - gf
ass - gg
pussy - gh
mouth - gi
hands - gj
feet - gk
tits - gl
==========================
bdsm: bd
Leashed - b1
Restrained - b2
Spanked - b3
Suspended - b4
Whipped - b5
Tortured - b6
alone - b7
girl - b8
hidden girl - b9
guy - ba
hidden guy - bb
cumcovered - bc
dominatrix - be
==========================
normal sex: ns
partner girl - p1
partner guy - p2
partner hidden - p3
poses:
69 - s1
Doggy - s2
Missionary - s3
Onside - s4
Ontop - s5
Scissors - s6
Sitting - s7
Spooning - s8
Standing - s9
rape - sa
restrained - sb

Sex to girl:
Anal fingering - sc
Vaginal fingering - sd
Lick anus - se
Lick pussy -sf
Anal Toy - sg
Vaginal Toy - sh
Anus fucked - si
Pussy fucked - sj
Kissed - sk
Hugged - sl
Caress tits - sm

Sex done by girl:
Blowjob - sn
Deepthroat - so
Footjob - sp
Handjob - sr
Hug - ss
Kiss - st
Titsjob - su
Anal handjob - sv
Vaginal handjob - sw
Anal footjob -sy
Vaginal footjob - sz
Lick anus t1
Lick pussy - t2
Fuck anal - t3
Fuck pussy - t4
Toy anal - t5
Toy pussy - t6
Caress tits - t7
========================
Time
evening - z1
night - z2
autumn - z3
winter - z4
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: MuteDay on January 08, 2015, 02:25:22 PM
lol whats with the list of tags?

Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: DarkTl on January 08, 2015, 02:27:25 PM
I'm preparing Xela to upload all this into the game  ;D
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: MuteDay on January 08, 2015, 02:28:08 PM
oh lol

Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: Xela on January 08, 2015, 02:56:38 PM
LoL

Just update the dict :)
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: Xela on January 08, 2015, 03:47:22 PM
LoL

Just update the dict :)

And add new sh!t there as well :D

*Begs a question... do we change the tagnames in use today or just leave them and tag them anew...?

Current list in use by the game:

    "go": "generic outdoor",
    "cl": "cleaning",
    "a1": "cooking",
    "a2": "dancer",
    "ex": "exercising",
    "mu": "musician",
    "si": "singer",
    "a3": "sport",
    "a4": "studying",
    "wa": "waitress",
    "sb": "simple bg",
    "gi": "generic indoor",
    "b0": "meadow",
    "b1": "arena",
    "b2": "bar",
    "b3": "bathroom",
    "b4": "bedroom",
    "b5": "classroom",
    "b6": "dungeon",
    "b7": "kitchen",
    "b8": "living room",
    "b9": "library",
    "c0": "shop",
    "c1": "stage", 
    "c2": "beach",
    "c3": "forest",
    "c4": "onsen",
    "c5": "park",
    "c6": "pool",
    "c7": "road",
    "c8": "ruin",
    "c9": "urban",
    "d0": "wilderness",
    "d1": "yard",
    "pr": "profile",
    "an": "anal",
    "ba": "battle",
    "bs": "battle_sprite",
    "bd": "bdsm",
    "en": "ent",
    "gr": "group",
    "le": "les",
    "ma": "mast",
    "po": "portrait",
    "qu": "quest",
    "re": "rest",
    "se": "sex",
    "st": "strip",
    "gm": "girl_meets",
    "d1": "do anal beads",
    "d2": "do dildo",
    "d3": "do dildo anal",
    "d4": "do dildo pussy",
    "d5": "do finger anus",
    "d6": "do finger pussy",
    "d7": "do lick anus",
    "d8": "do lick pussy",
    "d9": "do strapon",
    "d0": "do anal strapon",
    "e1": "do pussy strapon",
    "e2": "do squeezes tits",
    "e3": "anal beads",
    "e4": "caress tits",
    "e5": "cumcovered",
    "e6": "dildo",
    "e7": "dildo anal",
    "e8": "dildo pussy",
    "e9": "finger anus",
    "e0": "finger pussy",
    "f1": "hug",
    "f2": "kissed",
    "f3": "kissing",
    "f4": "lick anus",
    "f5": "lick pussy",
    "f6": "device",
    "f7": "random item",
    "f8": "doggy",
    "f9": "missionary",
    "h1": "onside",
    "h2": "ontop",
    "h3": "sitting",
    "f4": "spooning",
    "h5": "standing",
    "h6": "suspended",
    "h8": "active",
    "h9": "69",
    "h0": "deepthroat",
    "i1": "dildo joined",
    "hj": "handjob",
    "bj": "blowjob",
    "fj": "footjob",
    "i2": "scissors",
    "i3": "strapon",
    "tj": "titsjob",
    "bu": "bukkake",
    "i4": "lashed",
    "i5": "restrained",
    "i6": "spanking",
    "i7": "torture",
    "1g": "one guy",
    "2g": "two guys",
    "3g": "more guys",
    "1f": "one girl",
    "2f": "two girls",
    "3f": "more girls",
    "i8": "cosplay",
    "da": "date",
    "l9": "eating",
    "l0": "fighting",
    "l1": "gambling",
    "l2": "healing",
    "l3": "hurt",
    "l4": "magic",
    "l5": "meditating",
    "l6": "reading",
    "l7": "shopping",
    "nb": "no bg",
    "m0": "autumn",
    "m1": "winter",
    "m2": "night",
    "m3": "beauty",
    "m4": "etiquette",
    "m5": "undress",
    "m6": "drunk",
    "m7": "transformed",
    "ph": "partner hidden",
    "m9": "exposed",
    "n0": "topless",
    "n1": "ripped",
    "n2": "bunny",
    "n3": "cat",
    "n4": "dog",
    "n5": "cow",
    "n6": "casual",
    "n7": "nude",
    "n8": "armor",
    "n9": "bikini",
    "o0": "dominatrix",
    "o1": "fashionable",
    "o2": "formal",
    "o3": "lingerie",
    "o4": "lolita",
    "o5": "magician",
    "o6": "maid",
    "o7": "miko",
    "o8": "nurse",
    "o9": "pajamas",
    "p0": "plugsuit",
    "p1": "schoolgirl",
    "p2": "sportswear",
    "p3": "summer",
    "p4": "swimsuit",
    "p5": "angry",
    "p6": "confident",
    "p7": "defiant",
    "p8": "ecstatic",
    "p9": "happy",
    "q0": "indifferent",
    "q1": "provocative",
    "q2": "sad",
    "q3": "scared",
    "q4": "shy",
    "q5": "tired",
    "q6": "uncertain"
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: CherryWood on January 08, 2015, 04:17:13 PM
And that not even all of them  :D (I mean in the tagger, it's missing some tags from first post like rest and such)


------------some late questions---
What was the reason for dropping provocative/suggestive expression? What to do with those pics now?
"in pain" is good, but I'm not sure about that "insane" one. If adding something new, I thing "surprised" could be useful for portraits for conversation. 


Also something about the clothes:
lolita is out? So what we considered it now, a formal clothes?
and summer clothes? (usually one piece dress+sandals+straw hat) - we could add summer back at least as time tag, we have autumn and winter, so if we add summer we could differentiate those clothes by tagging them as everyday+summer/winter.
And I think "yukata" would be better clothes tag then "kimono". Yukatas are quite common thanks to that summer festival event while a true kimonos could fall under "Formal" category.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: DarkTl on January 08, 2015, 04:32:32 PM
We change the whole tagging concept a bit, there is no such a group of tags that has remained the same.
I'll write a guide and throw it into the tagger itself.

And that not even all of them  :D (I mean in the tagger, it's missing some tags from first post like rest and such)
Yup, also some typos here and there.

What was the reason for dropping provocative/suggestive expression? What to do with those pics now?
"in pain" is good, but I'm not sure about that "insane" one. If adding something new, I thing "surprised" could be useful for portraits for conversation. 
You right, I forgot suggestive.
To understand insane one, I propose you to google "yandere trance" pictures for some notable examples. I'm not sure if we need the tag, but I'm sure there are such pictures.
Surprised = scared or uncertain?

Also something about the clothes:
lolita is out? So what we considered it now, a formal clothes?
and summer clothes? (usually one piece dress+sandals+straw hat) - we could add summer back at least as time tag, we have autumn and winter, so if we add summer we could differentiate those clothes by tagging them as everyday+summer/winter.
And I think "yukata" would be better clothes tag then "kimono". Yukatas are quite common thanks to that summer festival event while a true kimonos could fall under "Formal" category.
Lolita is formal indeed. It's so vague and yet rare unless the charater is loli, I don't think it will be useful as a special tag.
Isn't summer = revealing? By revealing I mean exactly clothes that open a lot of skin, no matter the details. We cannot have true seasons anyway.
Ok, let it be yukata.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: CherryWood on January 08, 2015, 04:39:10 PM
Ok, just wanted to know the difference between the old tags and this, I don't really disagree. Revealing is ok if you mean it like that, I imagined something more serious at first.


btw. do we actually need bikini tag? Woudn't just swimsuit be enough? I mean, the difference is obvious and both are common, but I'm not sure if we really can use that distinction in game.

Also having "plugsuit" sound kinda odd, I guess it could pass as "armor" (removed "mage" clothes are armor now too? and military uniforms?) or it could use at least changing to something more generic name, like "tightsuit" or something.  Still hard for me to imagine using this for something.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: DarkTl on January 08, 2015, 04:54:32 PM
Yup, we probably don't need both bikini and swimsuit.

Mage and military are both very rare, unless the character is specific. Mage is armor, military is either armor or formal, depending on actual looks. And we always have everyday tag if they are common for someone.
I think I have only a couple of mage pics, and 0 military.

When someones says "plugsuit", I always imagine those battle suits from evangelion and nothing else  :D
But you right, we could replace it with something more common.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: DarkTl on January 08, 2015, 05:04:26 PM
Maybe gothic? Lolita will go there as well.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: CherryWood on January 08, 2015, 05:21:39 PM
Don't think so... there are very few other clothes for that besides gothic lolita dresses (I think I looked once into that before) and lolita itself is sometimes sweet and pink.


"Formal" is ok, we can always say that the dress code in PytFall is a little different  :D     Who can know it's not? I'm almost sure that In the name of our religion Xelasism, The prophet Dark Cherry said it is and that's like city's law then  8)
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: DarkTl on January 09, 2015, 04:29:06 AM
We have enough space in gui for more specific clothes tags. I just don't know which ones. They should be common enough to be useful, and they should not be vague.
I always had doubts about lolita, there is a thin line between lolita and just a fancy long dress.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: DarkTl on January 09, 2015, 02:39:41 PM
I updated the first post, it now contains general principles of tagging. I'm not really sure how deep should I go, everything else should be obvious once you begin to work with the tagger.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: Xela on January 09, 2015, 05:10:14 PM
Ok... so I didn't get anything done with the skills other than adding a simpler method of getting the true skill value... but I did take a look at the tagger and tried to anticipate some of the issues new system might bring:

- Profile tag (main) is a pain in the butt because it MUST be paired with actions. That means that every time I need to get to normal profile tag in the game, I'll have to exclude all actions and that is a longer auto-exclude list than any of the once that we have in the game right now and trying to fix (because every tag to exclude means more database requests, logic and code).
*Suggestion to fix: Add profile to the window with girlsmeets + substitute it in main tags with something else that just opens the actions menu and not a tag in itself OR we could use "clean or safe" tag that I mentioned in earlier posts. I think the latter is a much better option.

- Natural Nude is a bit of an issue as well because I have no clue on what to do with that in the game (logic/code). It would have to be checked everywhere through tagging system (database access + extra logic). We've also agreed not to handle special cases until a much later development stage. No matter how I look at it, it will require a lot of messy code excluding tags where she may be closed and spacial handling cases where she is closed.
*Suggestion to fix: Remove completely, tag a few obvious images and put only nude pics to the profile category because it's her normal state and "nude"/no cloth tags will lead there (because it's better not to tag these girls in that way).

- Normal Sex (ns) + Girl and Normal Sex (ns) + Guy create separate tags that I cannot find use for and that would require special lookup routine coded just for them (we'll prolly have to code something like that at some point anyway but that not the point). It also means more lookups and more code.
*Suggestion to fix: It's be awesome if we could make two single tags out of those on tagging level.

- It would be nice to have (unique) cumcovered tags for Normal and Group categories (I know there is bukkake but that usually involves the act).
*Suggestion to fix: Add the tags.

- Masturbation is difficult to use for a number of reasons.
1) I suppose that to get to masturbation images where the girls is along, we'd have to exclude other sex categories, there is no better way around it in this case as the only other option will require boatloads of new tags that are of very limited use. Unless, someone can offer something that I haven't considered yet.
*Suggestion to fix: Other than what's mentioned above (do nothing, add 40 extra tags), I strongly doubt that well ever get to the point where we check for it paired with other acts. It may be a solution to move it to it's own category...

2) There is no finger/hand option. We can assume that it's just the tag but it, once again will mean that we'll have to exclude all the other tags to get there which is the main thing we're trying to avoid with this retagging effort.
*Suggestion to fix: Add finger/hand tag.

=====================================================================
Other than that, we can add a new dict with your tagnames vs those in the game and after a updating the code a bit , rename images from old JSON and my filenames to your format (Unless you're planning to do so yourself or done so already).

Images will not loose most of the work you guy already done. (this can be done only after we finalized the code).
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: CherryWood on January 09, 2015, 06:11:02 PM

@Xela
I agree the the profile tag behavior is not good like this, but I still don't get that clean tag you promote so much. We have obviously unsafe tags (sex, strip, nude...) but why should we need to care if other normal activities (rest, shopping...) are SFW or not on pictures in game? It sound like something for a packmaker to decide what is appropriate for the character and if you need to show a more sexy picture, there is a suggestive expressions for that. Or did I misunderstood it completely?


And I find that cumcovered for group tag idea odd, should we measure the amount or what?  :D  Ok, seriously now, do we really have plans for using this "cumcovered" tag in game? I never considered those pictures useful for a packs before so I would need to look for them anew for existing girls if we do.

-----------
I still wound like to keep a "profile" tag = profile screen synergy somehow is possible
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: DarkTl on January 10, 2015, 02:00:23 AM
- Profile tag (main) is a pain in the butt because it MUST be paired with actions. That means that every time I need to get to normal profile tag in the game, I'll have to exclude all actions and that is a longer auto-exclude list than any of the once that we have in the game right now and trying to fix (because every tag to exclude means more database requests, logic and code).
*Suggestion to fix: Add profile to the window with girlsmeets + substitute it in main tags with something else that just opens the actions menu and not a tag in itself OR we could use "clean or safe" tag that I mentioned in earlier posts. I think the latter is a much better option.
I don't know why do you see any difference between profile and sfw. I can change its name in gui, but it won't change anything.

The only way to avoid any additional checks is to not use any main tags at all together with action tags. But in this case we will never know if they are sfw or not.

*Suggestion to fix: Remove completely, tag a few obvious images and put only nude pics to the profile category because it's her normal state and "nude"/no cloth tags will lead there (because it's better not to tag these girls in that way).
Say goodbye to slimes random pack in this case. Ie the only actual monster girl pack.

- Normal Sex (ns) + Girl and Normal Sex (ns) + Guy create separate tags that I cannot find use for and that would require special lookup routine coded just for them (we'll prolly have to code something like that at some point anyway but that not the point). It also means more lookups and more code.
*Suggestion to fix: It's be awesome if we could make two single tags out of those on tagging level.
NS is sex with one parnter, ie not group or bdsm. P1 means sex with girl, p2 means sex with guy.
So you want instead of ns+p1 and ns+p2, let's say, just p1 and p2? Why?
You could just ignore ns completely if you don't need it, p1 already = ns+p1 in terms of logic, it's just more confident for me.
Don't tell me it's too difficult to do nothing with some tag in renpy  ::)

- It would be nice to have (unique) cumcovered tags for Normal and Group categories (I know there is bukkake but that usually involves the act).
*Suggestion to fix: Add the tags.
You still don't understand what do I mean by cumcovered, it seems. Cumcovered means that there are no signs of any actions, except covered state itself. If you can say that this is a normal sex or group sex, then it is normal or group, not cumcovered.
And if you want to tag the very fact that the girl is covered no matter what, I don't see how can we use it either. It's quite subjective description. There is always cum, so pack makers have to judge if it's enough to cover or not.

- Masturbation is difficult to use for a number of reasons.
1) I suppose that to get to masturbation images where the girls is along, we'd have to exclude other sex categories, there is no better way around it in this case as the only other option will require boatloads of new tags that are of very limited use. Unless, someone can offer something that I haven't considered yet.
*Suggestion to fix: Other than what's mentioned above (do nothing, add 40 extra tags), I strongly doubt that well ever get to the point where we check for it paired with other acts. It may be a solution to move it to it's own category...
Characters can masturbate during any other sex action, such pictures are not rare. It's almost like your old active tag. Use it in the same way.

2) There is no finger/hand option. We can assume that it's just the tag but it, once again will mean that we'll have to exclude all the other tags to get there which is the main thing we're trying to avoid with this retagging effort.
*Suggestion to fix: Add finger/hand tag.
I can add hand tag automatically if none of other tags are selected.

Other than that, we can add a new dict with your tagnames vs those in the game and after a updating the code a bit , rename images from old JSON and my filenames to your format (Unless you're planning to do so yourself or done so already).

Images will not loose most of the work you guy already done. (this can be done only after we finalized the code).
We changed clothes and places tags completely, and have more accurate sex tags. It's impossible to automatically convert pictures to new system.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: DarkTl on January 10, 2015, 02:19:33 AM
Ok, seriously now, do we really have plans for using this "cumcovered" tag in game? I never considered those pictures useful for a packs before so I would need to look for them anew for existing girls if we do.
I explained it so many times...
It's a universal sex tag, anything except pure lesbian action could happen to the character before she became like this. So if we don't have some specific picture in a pack, we can use cumcovered instead.

You don't have to look for them if you don't care about it. I do care.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: Xela on January 10, 2015, 05:36:10 AM
I don't know why do you see any difference between profile and sfw. I can change its name in gui, but it won't change anything.

The only way to avoid any additional checks is to not use any main tags at all together with action tags. But in this case we will never know if they are sfw or not.

@Xela
I agree the the profile tag behavior is not good like this, but I still don't get that clean tag you promote so much. We have obviously unsafe tags (sex, strip, nude...) but why should we need to care if other normal activities (rest, shopping...) are SFW or not on pictures in game?

The reason CW understood me and you didn't is because you've never applied tags in the game/tested how they behave :)

"Main Category", regardless if it's masturbation or profile or something else can only have meaning by itself if you are willing to exclude all of tags the tags that it "opens *shows in the tagger". "profile" atm is our most widely used tags and we'll f*ck it up completely either by a lot of database lookups to exclude "Action" group or by having "Action" group randomly appear when we want to show profile pictures.

This needs to be done, you have to add something that opens the action category but doesn't have a tag of it own OR add a new tag, I don't care if you call it Non-Nude or Clothed or SFW as long as we explain what it does properly AND add profile as we understand it to the window with girlsmeets tag.

Say goodbye to slimes random pack in this case. Ie the only actual monster girl pack.

** Do note that we are currently using Slimegirls (one random and one from QB). They do work well enough so I see no reason to drop them. I can retag those two myself if you don't want to do it to try and find the best way for them to work without handling them as special case.

NS is sex with one parnter, ie not group or bdsm. P1 means sex with girl, p2 means sex with guy.
So you want instead of ns+p1 and ns+p2, let's say, just p1 and p2? Why?
You could just ignore ns completely if you don't need it, p1 already = ns+p1 in terms of logic, it's just more confident for me.
Don't tell me it's too difficult to do nothing with some tag in renpy  ::)

For some reason I concluded that to be impossible yesterday... but it was very late.

So it comes down to this:

Cons:
- Extra click when tagging
- Rather large extra entry to the database (it's a popular image category).

Pros:
- We can exclude both gay/straight sex from lookup with one tag instead of two if required (I think it only needs to be done when working with masturbation taggroup).
- Less work for Dark ;)

You still don't understand what do I mean by cumcovered, it seems. Cumcovered means that there are no signs of any actions, except covered state itself. If you can say that this is a normal sex or group sex, then it is normal or group, not cumcovered.

Ok, this has potential for job events, doesn't matter what the action was, as long as there was at least one male, we can show the pic with a corresponding text.

I can add hand tag automatically if none of other tags are selected.

I would be impossible to tag an image where a girl is masturbating with a hand and a dildo or to add forced tag for example, it'll also be a bit odd because this would be the only tag that is added silently when opening a group.

We changed clothes and places tags completely, and have more accurate sex tags. It's impossible to automatically convert pictures to new system.

Ok
=========================================================

One more thing:
- Beast category... we decided not to use it in the past but we might want to reconsider with this review.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: Xela on January 10, 2015, 05:49:44 AM
We have obviously unsafe tags (sex, strip, nude...) but why should we need to care if other normal activities (rest, shopping...) are SFW or not on pictures in game?

We can work with just adding/excluding Nude main tag. That's why I keep suggesting "either" - "or" solutions to fix it. We can have something that opens the Action menu and menu with "girlsmeets" tag where the profile should be but does not add any tags and work with that.

Lets say that you want to find an image based on clothing or location (or both). It may not be tagged with girlsmeets and profile, those are specific tags with meaning and their own place in the game.

So you call:

self.show("stage", "sfw") if we have the tag OR
self.show("stage", exclude=("Nude", "Sex")) If we don't.

It's once again a question of having more entries in DB vs convenience in coding and reducing amount of lookups in database. Same as I described in my post to Dark.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: Xela on January 10, 2015, 06:02:30 AM
Another note: When retagging, please add all emotions to profile category so girls don't look happy all the time. System to add indifferent/sad based on joy stat is already working.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: DarkTl on January 10, 2015, 06:18:39 AM
"Main Category", regardless if it's masturbation or profile or something else can only have meaning by itself if you are willing to exclude all of tags the tags that it "opens *shows in the tagger". "profile" atm is our most widely used tags and we'll f*ck it up completely either by a lot of database lookups to exclude "Action" group or by having "Action" group randomly appear when we want to show profile pictures.

This needs to be done, you have to add something that opens the action category but doesn't have a tag of it own OR add a new tag, I don't care if you call it Non-Nude or Clothed or SFW as long as we explain what it does properly AND add profile as we understand it to the window with girlsmeets tag.
I still don't understand the difference between sfw and profile in terms of pure logic. Profile pics are safe for work, that's why we show them all the time. Profile=SFW.
I can replace natural nude with action main tag, and all actions will be there.

** Do note that we are currently using Slimegirls (one random and one from QB). They do work well enough so I see no reason to drop them. I can retag those two myself if you don't want to do it to try and find the best way for them to work without handling them as special case.
Yup, we do. I took a look at random one yesterday, it has like 1 profile picture with clothes (at all) and 3-4 that could be considered sfw only because of the pose (still without clothes at all).
Slimegirl from QB is more modest.

So say gb to slime random pack unless you willing to tag nude pics as sfw.

Cons:
- Extra click when tagging
- Rather large extra entry to the database (it's a popular image category).

Pros:
- We can exclude both gay/straight sex from lookup with one tag instead of two if required (I think it only needs to be done when working with masturbation taggroup).
- Less work for Dark ;)
There always will be that extra click. Because you have to select normal sex for a start, and not group or bdsm.
And yes, because I store that click, I don't need extra checks and the whole gui logic is perfectly clear  ;D

One more thing:
- Beast category... we decided not to use it in the past but we might want to reconsider with this review.
Sometimes, when character has something to do with monsters or animals, they are common, but in other cases they are rare as hell.
I mean, you always can find something for profile and something for sex, even when character has 10-20 pics in total.
But not for beast.

Another note: When retagging, please add all emotions to profile category so girls don't look happy all the time. System to add indifferent/sad based on joy stat is already working.
I always do so. It's not my fault that lazy artists don't draw all pics that we need :)
Try to display at least neutral ones if there are no sad ones.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: CherryWood on January 10, 2015, 06:25:18 AM
Lets say that you want to find an image based on clothing or location (or both). It may not be tagged with girlsmeets and profile, those are specific tags with meaning and their own place in the game.

Well, if it's for pictures that doesn't show some action but also don't fit to the profile (let's say miko outfit for non-miko girl (http://img24.cz/images/58931908511656911736_thumb.jpg) (http://img24.cz/viewer.php?file=58931908511656911736.jpg)) then I can understand that, I had some of those before in my packs

But precision search like that woud not find anything for majority of the girls, so it would have to be done under /if girl has pics/ command or you just get random profile pics most of the time... I can't really see it so common that some extra excluding would be a big bother (compared to tagging every second pics with some additional SFW tag)

but yes, at least "profile" tag selectable independently or other tags please, that would help

-------
please no beast, it's like Dark said, I usually have enought trouble to find something for categories like anal sex as it is (I hate that one already).
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: DarkTl on January 10, 2015, 06:26:00 AM
Ok, this has potential for job events, doesn't matter what the action was, as long as there was at least one male, we can show the pic with a corresponding text.
One more thing.
Cumcovered girl + 1 guy = normal sex + one guy + no more tags. Ie when they do nothing at all.
Cumcovered girl = cumcovered.
Though I could rename cumcovered to aftersex or something, to be more clear.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: DarkTl on January 10, 2015, 06:30:21 AM
Basically, cumcovered is a lack of partners in the presence of traces of sex. That's why you cannot actually tag them as sex or group, because the girl is alone there. Not matter how covered she is.

Note that there is a separate cumcovered tag in bdsm. I think it will be useful for events.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: Xela on January 10, 2015, 07:04:43 AM
I still don't understand the difference between sfw and profile in terms of pure logic. Profile pics are safe for work, that's why we show them all the time. Profile=SFW.
I can replace natural nude with action main tag, and all actions will be there.

You could replace it but it would simply further complicate the issue... I am not getting through to you so it's time for a show and tell presentations with examples from one of your packs:

First I would like to point out something that I have not said in previous posts because I believed it to be apparent:

Profile can be SFW!

SFW INCLUDES but IS NOT LIMITED to PROFILE pictures! That is the single thought that I cannot get across!

Example:

This image you've tagged with beach, profile and support tags. It's more or less ok if you as a pack maker wish to see beach images in profile. This is is BOTH SFW AND PROFILE.
(http://s11.postimg.org/rmv3018jz/c2_da_p9_pr_p3_d33j.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/rmv3018jz/)

This images you've tagged with Battle, Armor, Fighting and support tags. This image is SFW but it is NOT a profile image, at least you did not want it to be.
The problem IS THAT IT CANNOT BE TAGGED with your tagger in the same way. To GET to BATTLE or FIGHTING, you MUST tag it for PROFILE, NUDE or NATURAL NUDE. The image IS SFW but IT IS NOT!!!! PROFILE.
(http://s11.postimg.org/7uxiehmdr/n8_ba_p6_l0_c3_olt2.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/7uxiehmdr/)

Better example:
You've tagged this with rest and support tags (I mean location/emotion and etc). This is a SFW pick BUT IMO SHOULD NEVER be considered a PROFILE picture. The thing is that SOME REST pics, can make decent profile pictures as well!
Once again, you CANNOT get to REST for this image BECAUSE IT's NOT NUDE, NOT NATURAL NUDE AND NOT A PROFILE!
(http://s11.postimg.org/o77k480pb/m6_o2_gi_q0_re_veds.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/o77k480pb/)

To make matters worse, I (and apparently you) both consider this to be a good profile picture BUT THIS ONE IS NOT EVEN SFW!!!:
(http://s3.postimg.org/5q5e1mwgf/m9_pr_q2_sb_p3_q6_mgrp.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/5q5e1mwgf/)

So what I've been trying to explain and CW understood from the first post is that to KNOW that a picture is JUST profile and tagged with your tagger, we need to exclude almost 20 tags AND WE'LL STILL LOOSE SOME PICS THAT COULD HAVE BEEN MEANT AS PROFILE PICTURES BUT CANNOT BE SORTED OUT AT ALL. It is a VERY bad design.

And (hopefully for the last time) I am asking you to:

- Rename Profile to SFW as it exists in the tagger today!
- Add profile to window with Girlsmeets, Rest, Battle, Beauty and Etiquette as a different tag!

Yup, we do. I took a look at random one yesterday, it has like 1 profile picture with clothes (at all) and 3-4 that could be considered sfw only because of the pose (still without clothes at all).
Slimegirl from QB is more modest.

I think we can make it work and it will never be sfw.

But not for beast.

Insane amount of WM packs have these...

Try to display at least neutral ones if there are no sad ones.

I'll take a look when system is reviewed for improvement.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: DarkTl on January 10, 2015, 07:42:34 AM
Ok, I see what do you mean.

It's not like I cannot add profile checkbox, but things already becoming complicated. I'm not even sure how to write a guide for tagging anymore.

Insane amount of WM packs have these...
Because wm has insane amount of packs.

They are also even more random than group+bdsm together. So I'm not sure which subtags we can use at all.
I could just add another option to sex panel where you select sex/bdsm/group. As for subtags, I can only see rape and restrained. If you have any ideas, let's hear them.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: DarkTl on January 10, 2015, 07:48:19 AM
To make matters worse, I (and apparently you) both consider this to be a good profile picture BUT THIS ONE IS NOT EVEN SFW!!!:
(http://s3.postimg.org/5q5e1mwgf/m9_pr_q2_sb_p3_q6_mgrp.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/5q5e1mwgf/)

It's a well known fact cliche that ninjas wear these reticulated things under clothes all the time  :D
It is a nsfw, but we can see only top part, so I thought, why not?  ::)

You know, I think we could use ninja as another special clothes tag! It's not vague and it's very common.
 
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: DarkTl on January 10, 2015, 08:08:31 AM
Wait, how can we use not safe for work pictures if you don't want them in profile? In this case they only can have striptease action tag.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: Xela on January 10, 2015, 09:41:51 AM
Wait, how can we use not safe for work pictures if you don't want them in profile? In this case they only can have striptease action tag.

I do want them in profile (Anko's image!).

It's not like I cannot add profile checkbox, but things already becoming complicated. I'm not even sure how to write a guide for tagging anymore.

But NOTHING changes. You leave SWF description as it was before (for profile).

You just add new field:

"profile": A good representation of character to be displayed in the profile/girlslists screens and to default to in case no images can be found. Any pack should have at least one such image

This is it... everything else remains the same.

Because wm has insane amount of packs.

They are also even more random than group+bdsm together. So I'm not sure which subtags we can use at all.
I could just add another option to sex panel where you select sex/bdsm/group. As for subtags, I can only see rape and restrained. If you have any ideas, let's hear them.

Add it as category, it'll be up to the modder to use them or not. I doubt that we'll have events for this any time soon.

If you want to add it:

Beast:
    - peaceful (many pics of girls just being in embrace for example)
    - forced
    - rape
    - tentacles
    - gore # we might need this to filter out on preference in some point in distant future. Might be a good idea to add this to some other groups as well. This can be one tag for all groups.
   
Otherwise it doesn't really matter all that much... we can live without it for a long time if not at all.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: DarkTl on January 10, 2015, 10:06:12 AM
Sleep tag is in actions. Rest tag is in subtags for sfw, where girlmeets are, and where profile will be.
You want actions tags separated from profile completely.

Thus, it will be impossible to select both sleep and rest at the same time.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: Xela on January 10, 2015, 10:47:04 AM
Sleep tag is in actions. Rest tag is in subtags for sfw, where girlmeets are, and where profile will be.
You want actions tags separated from profile completely.

Thus, it will be impossible to select both sleep and rest at the same time.

I think you forgot how your tagger is working, you seem to think that only Profile and Natural Nude open the window with Girlsmeets and Rest tags :(

If you click Profile, Nude or Natural Nude in the tagger, both window appear:
(http://s14.postimg.org/micdzo5zh/2015_01_10_17_47_32.jpg) (http://postimage.org/) (http://s17.postimg.org/yufp8vnzf/2015_01_10_17_09_41.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/yufp8vnzf/)

This is how it should be. Rest, Girlsmeets, Beauty and even Battle and Etiquette (although admittedly, images for the last two are prolly rare) can be both NUDE and SFW! So can profile category!

There can be an image that is tagged with NUDE, PROFILE AND GIRLSMEETS at the same time! Exhibitionist can display such image in the beach for example.

I am asking you to leave that logic as it is, substitute Profile as you see in Main tags with SFW so it looks like:

Main tags:
sfw- qq
nude - nd
natural nude - nn
sex - sx
battle sprite - bs
portrait - po
sprite - qs
============================
sfw/nude subtags:
profile - pr
girlmeets - pa
battle - pb
rest - pc
beauty - pd
etiquette - pf

****
And it'll be perfect! Your tagger already works like this, to be honest I didn't realize that you wanted not to include those tags to nude...

Descriptions:

* SFW: Any image without explicit nudity (not even a naked nipple) and obviously any sexual acts. Bikini would belong here (such nudity should not be considered explicit)...
* Nude: Any image with any explicit nudity but NO sexual acts of any kind. Bikini and lingerie do not fit here as long as they are not transparent (no see-through), topless does.

Subcategories (This is not implicit, if image does not fit in any of these categories, skip this window):
*Do note that these categories permit Nudity where sensible.
"profile": A good representation of character to be displayed in the profile/girlslists screens and to default to in case no images can be found. Any pack should have at least one such image
- girlmeets: Any image that will fit to meet (and interact (talk) with) the girl. A sleeping/sitting girl would be a really bad fit here. So would a girl displayed in an odd position. Nudity is allowed (imagine exhibitionist at the beach location).
- battle: Images that could be used at arena, after exploration, etc. Ie when a character is ready for combat or for example has a weapon, but not actually fighting with someone.
- rest: Images that depict resting characters. They could sleep, lie somewhere, drink tea, play a game (not a sport game, more like video games or chess).
- beauty: Tag for beauty school and similar activities, like applying makeup, combing hair, looking pretty in front of the mirror and .tc.
- etiquette: Tag for etiquette school and similar activities, like showing skill in, knowledge of or otherwise displaying high society behavior or an action that can be associated with it. Usually a classy dress or sitting in front of a lot of forks :) . Dancing in a classy dress might be a fit here as well.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: Xela on January 10, 2015, 10:52:20 AM
I still think we should get rid of natural nude, maybe even name sfw tag nn (none-nude) so it's easy to remember. We'll just tag them as they were before but make them "Slime" instead of "Unknown" in race. I can prolly cook something up with the code at some point in the future (like auto-add/remove tags).
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: DarkTl on January 10, 2015, 11:00:33 AM
Are you sure about Beast category? I'm ok with tentacles, but some pictures can be... unpleasant.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: Xela on January 10, 2015, 11:10:29 AM
Are you sure about Beast category? I'm ok with tentacles, but some pictures can be... unpleasant.

I don't care, you can always add it later. There will be demand for it and value of packs without the category will diminish but I don't expect that we'll add this any time soon, definitely not before content filters.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: DarkTl on January 10, 2015, 12:37:43 PM
Alright, I've done it. No beast though, don't want to attract attention of those who like such things, maybe then demand won't be so high either  :)

Since delphi does it best to use common system resourses and support as many platforms as possible (including android and mac os), it's limited in terms of colors that can be used in application without adding a folder with images for buttons and backgrounds. And I don't really want to add optional files to release if it can be one single exe.

It is possible to compile the tagger for mac, but I don't have the compiler installed currently, and I cannot even test it properly anyway. If there will be high demand, I'll try it.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: Xela on January 10, 2015, 02:36:41 PM
Since delphi does it best to use common system resourses and support as many platforms as possible (including android and mac os), it's limited in terms of colors that can be used in application without adding a folder with images for buttons and backgrounds. And I don't really want to add optional files to release if it can be one single exe.

It is possible to compile the tagger for mac, but I don't have the compiler installed currently, and I cannot even test it properly anyway. If there will be high demand, I'll try it.

This kinda blew my mind :D

Last time I've heard the word Delphi, it was from my (now deceased) Grandfather talking about moving his super complex Mathematical/Physics/Chemistry program that calculates properties of alloy compositions coming out of blast furnaces from FORTRAN to Delphi...

That it can actually work on Mac/Android is kinda scary! We'll need a version that can run on Win/Linux or at least Linux with Wine. Mac is a special case (because I am very far away from being an apple fun (that was kindly put in order not to start a flamewar)) and Android is out of question, I mean we even don't release PyTFall for Android or SmartTVs even though Ren'Py supports that.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: Xela on January 11, 2015, 02:22:49 PM
I've updated the front post with ingame tag dict.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: DarkTl on January 11, 2015, 03:16:48 PM
SFW actually has 'nn' tag. As you suggested, I removed natural nude, so it means "not nude"  :)
I also changed pure cumcovered (in gui only) to "after sex", hopefully it will be more clear for pack makers.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: Xela on January 11, 2015, 03:22:56 PM
SFW actually has 'nn' tag. As you suggested, I removed natural nude, so it means "not nude"  :)
I also changed pure cumcovered (in gui only) to "after sex", hopefully it will be more clear for pack makers.

Updated, I am still working on this. Your tags should already load in my version.

Final thing to do is to try is to check if there are any doubles from either sides. Like cumcovered was a double in values, I'll try that in console right now.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: Xela on January 11, 2015, 03:42:24 PM
Ok, there were 2 of the same tags in values and some spelling mistakes. I think it should all be fixed.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: DarkTl on January 11, 2015, 03:56:55 PM
Another one,  'm5' is not 'randomitem'. Random items will be in other toy. Instead "m5" is hand (foot, tail, etc).

I think this is it. I checked everything again in the tagger's code.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: Xela on January 11, 2015, 04:04:21 PM
Another one,  'm5' is not 'randomitem'. Random items will be in other toy. Instead "m5" is hand (foot, tail, etc).

I think this is it. I checked everything again in the tagger's code.

    'm5': 'hand',

Updated in the game.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: CherryWood on January 18, 2015, 10:26:39 AM
I've come across something I need to ask about>
a) pictures with restrained girl (she is just captured and left alone) vs b) pictures when the girl is tied up to some sex toys or devices
Looking at the tagger, is seems that tags could be
a) BDSM+Restrained+Alone
b) BDSM+Restrained+Alone+Masturbation+Vibrator+Forced ?
is that ok or I'm wrong here?
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: DarkTl on January 18, 2015, 10:35:49 AM
Yup, I'm tagging them exactly like that.

Don't forget to use everyday tag. Many characters tend to use one specific set of clothes in most cases (like 80-90% of pictures), so any clothes that are not everyday are important for events.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: Xela on January 18, 2015, 10:42:23 AM
One thing, do we have a standard for quest pics (sprites). I noticed that some are knee high, some are full height and other are thigh high making it difficult to work with.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: DarkTl on January 18, 2015, 11:45:37 AM
For standarts you should look at newly tagged packs, old ones are pretty random. I cut them somewhere between knee and thigh, pretty much like Hinata in CW pack.

Btw no matter what we do with sprites, different characters still have different heights. We have to solve it somehow via jsons, or just use traits, like loli should always be smaller.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: Xela on January 18, 2015, 01:39:04 PM
For standarts you should look at newly tagged packs, old ones are pretty random. I cut them somewhere between knee and thigh, pretty much like Hinata in CW pack.

Btw no matter what we do with sprites, different characters still have different heights. We have to solve it somehow via jsons, or just use traits, like loli should always be smaller.

Knee high or slightly is the standard then.

Btw no matter what we do with sprites, different characters still have different heights. We have to solve it somehow via jsons, or just use traits, like loli should always be smaller.

Good call, I considered this very long time ago but forgot about it :(

So... do we create three options (tall, average, short)? I would favor that to setting up height in cm and then calculate the size of the sprite...
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: DarkTl on January 18, 2015, 02:11:29 PM
It's impossible to set value in cm for everyone. It's not just underdeveloped characters, but random ones too.

Though I'm not against cm field. However, there should be something for cases above anyway. For example, use traits to determine height when needed, or for random ones another random filed in cm.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: Xela on January 18, 2015, 03:45:14 PM
It's impossible to set value in cm for everyone. It's not just underdeveloped characters, but random ones too.

Though I'm not against cm field. However, there should be something for cases above anyway. For example, use traits to determine height when needed, or for random ones another random filed in cm.

Right, than the new field would be:

"height": "average",

I'll cook up a method to automatically get correct sprites. We could do this for the BE sprites as well.

What do you think a good height in pixels might be?
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: CherryWood on January 18, 2015, 03:58:06 PM
I'll cook up a method to automatically get correct sprites. We could do this for the BE sprites as well.
Yup, I also mentioned about this before. I see the problem mostly in ridiculous hats and spears and such...
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: Xela on January 18, 2015, 04:13:59 PM
Yup, I also mentioned about this before. I see the problem mostly in ridiculous hats and spears and such...

If we do that, we'll need to establish guidelines for battle sprites as well... it might work then.

There are other options too, such as asking to pick a "proper" size for the sprite and load it into BE as it is for example.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: DarkTl on January 19, 2015, 09:26:37 AM
I'm not sure what kind of BE we'll have eventually, I guess it's too early to do something there.

As for quest sprites, characters that you used in your example seem fine for an average type of height. Let's make a cut above for tall characters and vice versa for short ones.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: Xela on January 25, 2015, 07:37:25 AM
Guys, when you're picking/cutting battle_sprites, make sure there is no transparent space on any of the sides and that fit the general pattern.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: DarkTl on January 25, 2015, 07:46:40 AM
You could be more specific. Name the character with bad battle sprite.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: Xela on January 25, 2015, 07:56:46 AM
You could be more specific. Name the character with bad battle sprite.

There was a girl from Naruto who was in a sitting position, looked ridiculous. But I've mentioned it because of Squall MC type, there was empty space left on the left side of his battle sprite and I could not tell which row he is in half the time. Also Nami who stood next to him looked like she was in a row 1.5 :D

I've fixed his sprite, just wanted to point this out because you guys are working with sprites right now.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: CherryWood on January 25, 2015, 08:13:47 AM
There was a girl from Naruto who was in a sitting position, looked ridiculous. But I've mentioned it because of Squall MC type, there was empty space left on the left side of his battle sprite and I could not tell which row he is in half the time. Also Nami who stood next to him looked like she was in a row 1.5 :D

I've fixed his sprite, just wanted to point this out because you guys are working with sprites right now.
I made that one and it was 100% intended so his body will be at the center of the image, because otherwise arrows and spells was hitting empty space next to him (it was looking ridiculous). I've created all sprites to be like that, with empty space on sides and above if needed.
Are you really sure about this?
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: Xela on January 25, 2015, 08:44:48 AM
I made that one and it was 100% intended so his body will be at the center of the image, because otherwise arrows and spells was hitting empty space next to him (it was looking ridiculous). I've created all sprites to be like that, with empty space on sides and above if needed.
Are you really sure about this?

Lets wait until I reconstruct the arrow spell for the new BE then. But we should more intuitive targeting now. I need to check this for myself.

EDIT: But just for the record, I do not believe that it's ever a good design to create offsets with images instead of code...
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: DarkTl on January 25, 2015, 08:50:02 AM
Well, it's not a problem to fix something in sprites, would take 5-10 mins, unlike our current retagging.

Naruto was one of the first packs, so it's been like two years ago  :)
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: MuteDay on February 03, 2015, 10:06:09 AM
1) 'ss': 'bs hug', should be 'bc hug'
2) do you mind explaining the group tags because i dont quite understand them
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: DarkTl on February 03, 2015, 10:33:48 AM
I have a guide here (http://www.pinkpetal.org/index.php?topic=3533.msg32068#msg32068), I think it covers all questions, at least theoretical ones.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: MuteDay on February 03, 2015, 10:41:47 AM
so basicly if you tag it with "ass" it means that durring group sex her ass is visible or her ass is being used?

Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: DarkTl on February 03, 2015, 10:47:37 AM
Used.
Title: Re: New image tagging concept
Post by: MuteDay on February 03, 2015, 10:55:30 AM
kool thank you