Author Topic: Slave Training (ST) concept  (Read 51342 times)

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Offline Xela

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Re: Slave Training (ST) concept
« Reply #60 on: October 17, 2014, 05:02:09 PM »

I'll just assume it's an awesome job on updating the games code. If you have time to wrap it up by tomorrow evening, I'll try to take a look at it.

Currently while the RunawayManager can handle escape attempts from other locations, none of the checks are added in. What Jobs do we want these checks in, and what state do we want the girls in before they try and escape?

Currently girls who are searching don't count as guards in escape attempts. Do we want them included?

I'll probably have more notes/questions as I remember them.

PS: I despise this damn post editor.

Well, as I've said, it's prolly a good idea to prevent putting untrained slaves to do actual jobs (especially if we go with simplified "breaking" routines, like having a conversation). If we take that path, they should only try to escape before they're broken or if they are being deceitful (pretending to be willing to serve while plotting an escape). The latter is prolly better left until better times due to complexity.

We'd prolly want guard included as (especially with more than one guard), we'd expect them not to run off and leave slaves unguarded... It may depend on the interface, if you're clearly sending a girl off to hunt for an escaped slave, we can leave her out of guarding. If we just ask her to try and find the escaped slave, we should subtract an AP or 2 and let her use the rest during the guard shift. (assuming guards spend AP during the guard shift).

PS: I despise this damn post editor.


There is a huge difference in the interface options between "edit" and "modify" post. One would expect them to be the same, but they're not...
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: Slave Training (ST) concept
« Reply #61 on: May 05, 2015, 06:57:58 AM »
Ok, I only care about fanservice part of ST and lamoli disappeared, so we gonna use parts of Xela's concept for ST. My propositions:

- New screen, like in wm, for ST. Where you can see all slaves that you have in the dungeon at once, and interact with them.

- No reward/punishment system. We don't punish for disobedience and reward for obedience. Like in wm, we apply various bdsm actions to characters until they either agree to be 100% slaves or die/gone mad/run away. Of course you can also let them free, so they will join other city girls.

It's not like I dislike that system in JoNT, but I feel like we gonna steal something instead of making our own original concept if we'll use it  :)

- The core of the system are special traits and flags for them. Flags are invisible, some of those special traits too. That's how ST currently works more or less, but we require a more general approach.

Various types of training actions can not just change skills or stats, but also add and remove
arbitrary flags. Like, rape action could give raped flag.
Special traits that we gonna use should have flags
requirements that you can freely set in traits json. For example, trait "Raped lvl1" requires 1 raped flag, while trait "Raped lvl 5" requires 10 rape flags and 5 gang rape flags. It's just a quick example though, I'm not gonna use such traits  :)
Now if you somehow remove flags (raping is a bad example for it, really), these traits should disappear too until character will have enough flags again.

It also means double conditions in some cases. For example, I have raped lvl1 and raped lvl2 traits, first one requires 5 rape flags, second one 10. It means that rape lvl1 actually will be there from 5 to 9 flags, but at 10 flags it should disappear and be replaced by rape lvl2.

Also there should be a bit of randomness in training. I mean cases when some training could reduce health from 3 to 8 per day.

- These special traits should have some new fields:
 -- hidden or not. Some traits are so obvious or important that we might as well show them during ST process. Others will only serve for logic part, and we should hide them forever and use only in the training logic.
 -- inheritable or not. After ST ends, most of special traits will disappear since they no longer matter. But some of them will remain forever, or at least until you find a way to remove them somehow. Only visible traits could remain outside of ST.
-- required flags. You should actually be able to set needed flags right inside traits json. Maybe something like
"minflags": {"raped": 5},
"maxflags": {"raped": 9},
for cases when trait should disappear with too many flags. And just minflags:5 when the trait should remain until you decrease amount of flags.

Traits that remain after ST are consequences of too long and brutal ST due to low skill or unwillingness to finish it when you should do it already. Usually (but not always) you want to avoid them, since they are mostly negative.

- Difficulty of training. We don't have slave training skill yet, but it's a matter of one minute to add it.
-- Every trait in the game should add or remove difficulty of ST, depending on some new field that we don't have there yet.
Initial difficulty that we set according to girls jsons goes from 0 to 100. It should be normalized if needed.

-- Next step of difficulty is character level. Resulting training difficulty = base difficulty from jsons x level x 10. We might improve this formula somehow, I'm open to suggestions.

-- Your goal for succesful ST is to reduce resulting difficulty to 0. Every training action somehow changes it (not necessarily reduces). The problem is to do it before you kill or in some other way damage the slave. The more trainer's ST skill, the more training difficulty changes after training actions.

After difficulty becomes 0, you have a new option available, to
put a (magic) stigma. Unlike wm, you cannot try it anytime in hope to get lucky with rng.
That concludes ST, and the slave joins other girls outside of the dungeon.

- Training itself should work pretty much like it already does. The difference is that you can apply ANY type of training anytime. Outcome depends on stuff like stats and traits, but nothing prevents you from doing anything you want if you don't care about it. There could be more than two outcomes (not just success and failure, like before). In fact, there is no failure, any training will work somehow. The question is, how.

- Running away.
We already have escape during training. However, the chance of success should depend on the difference between slave's and guard's battle skills (attack, defence, magic). This way items that reduce battle skills will be very useful for training ex-warriors.
We have a simple algorithm for brawling inside brothels, maybe we should use something like it.

Death and madness.
- Any training that decreases hp has the potential to kill, like in wm.
- The chance of suicide calculated every next turn depending on joy, traits and security rating.
- Same goes for training that decreases constitution. However, it's not that simple to restore it, so it's a more important problem. Constitution 0 means death after any type of training, not at the spot like with health 0.
- intelligence 0 means madness in terms of wm. Unlike wm, however, such girls cannot do anything, you cannot communicate with them except usual sex actions, all their skills become 0, traits that are not 100% permanent like body or main class traits disappear too. Even main personality trait disappears.
They are considered as fully trained slaves (since they are obedient now), but they worth close to nothing.
There should be means to slowly restore them (and give new, random main personality trait as a result, but anything else is lost forever).
- character 0 means broken status, it probably should be a trait with effect. It means that all remaining training will go much easier, that character will forever have 0 character stat until you remove this trait (will be bad for many jobs), and the value of broken slaves is somewhat lower too.

Offline DarkTl

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Re: Slave Training (ST) concept
« Reply #62 on: May 05, 2015, 11:55:01 AM »
Simply add a label to the training and it appears under the interactions screen/menu instead of the training one. Can move them to the new screen as well/exclusively once its made. Works on AP for girl and MC, so its still limited unless we add custom "x amount of girls = 1 AP logic".
Yup, there should be a separate screen. It's very inconvenient to do ST without it, especially because we have so many characters.
While MC should only spend AP on training, trainers aka other characters should continue to do it via next day buffer.

Currently the trait is added at 1+ and removed at 0, and only works with 1 trait. I can add better support for multiple traits and different levels to trigger at easily enough.
Yeah, that's what I was talking about. I like your idea of flags+traits, but it should be more flexible, like I described above.

    Then the function either starts the BE (will probably need updating as the BE has changed since I wrote the function), or uses s_conflict_resolver (the function for deciding brawls/attacks during serving and whoring jobs).
BE is for especial cases, we should avoid to run it too often. You could take a look at brothels, there somewhere should be a simple function coded by Xela that decides who wins in brothel fight depending on battle stats without BE. Or you could just code your own, a better one.

Currently no good place to put this, though the new training screen would probably be a good place for it.
We assume that even imprisonment, especially in poor conditions, can eventually break weak characters, thought it will take a lot of time. All conditions should work in the same way: they apply every turn without a need to do something in terms of training. And they can change somehow stats and skills every day.
It's almost how free girls can rest, restoring hp and vitality, but for slaves you should be able to control how they live, thus how they change every day.

Of course life conditions should have the same logic as normal training, ie different outcomes per day for different cases depending on character's traits and stats.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2015, 11:57:27 AM by DarkTl »

Offline Xela

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Re: Slave Training (ST) concept
« Reply #63 on: April 24, 2016, 07:51:34 AM »
I am not going to archive the discussion but we are not likely to add ST to the beta.
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