Poll

What should I prioritize next? (a * after a choice means I am currently working on that)

Player Stuff
20 (8.5%)
Girl's interactions (with each other)
25 (10.7%)
Scripts (interactions with the player)
46 (19.7%)
New Stats, Skills and Traits
10 (4.3%)
Existing Stats
1 (0.4%)
Existing Skills
3 (1.3%)
Existing Traits
6 (2.6%)
Customers
5 (2.1%)
Gangs
12 (5.1%)
Rivals
8 (3.4%)
Buildings
7 (3%)
General Jobs
4 (1.7%)
Farm Jobs
9 (3.8%)
Matrons
9 (3.8%)
Items
2 (0.9%)
Remaking the interface
15 (6.4%)
New stuff
8 (3.4%)
Whore Master Editor
4 (1.7%)
No priority
3 (1.3%)
WM7
This poll will be reset when I start a new section or add more choices so check back often.
37 (15.8%)

Total Members Voted: 136

Author Topic: Updates and Notes for Crazy's Mod --- Current Version .06.04.01  (Read 937907 times)

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Offline Hanzo

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Re: Updates and Notes for Crazy's Mod --- Current Version .06.02.06
« Reply #510 on: June 28, 2015, 11:04:40 AM »
How about being able to add tiredness in variable amounts? That way it'd be possible to make some jobs, actions or other things more tiring than others. If I'm reading it right now everything is +10 - Constitution/10 , plus some modifiers. It seems easy to implement?

Does the gambling hall, strip club, etc share customers or each one have their own? I´d like to know if having whores at the same place or at different ones matters.

Offline mika

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Re: Updates and Notes for Crazy's Mod --- Current Version .06.02.06
« Reply #511 on: June 28, 2015, 03:19:03 PM »
Quote
Does the gambling hall, strip club, etc share customers or each one have their own? I´d like to know if having whores at the same place or at different ones matters.
This.

Once the configvars work properly, the above will become the main concern. It's not just payoff per customer that matters, but also availability of customers.

Currently, the alternative jobs tend to pay about 1/8 of what whore jobs pay. For the casino, its easy to justify making it more lucrative than whoredom, but also more variable and more demanding in terms of required skills. The same however is hard to justify, i.e. for stripping or a waitress. UNLESS some customers would visit ONLY for having a drink or watching a show, so not assigning people to it is a lost profit opportunity.

On the other hand, especially early in the game it would also be frustrating, if every customer came only for a specific purpose. How about something like this:
- raise visiting customers by 25%
- 50% of customers will take up a random offer (this emulates multiple aspects, including the customerbase adapting to what kind of business you run)
- 50% come only for a certain service - if you don't offer it, they'll just go (so, same as with sex restrictions)

Offline dmotrl

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Re: Updates and Notes for Crazy's Mod --- Current Version .06.02.06
« Reply #512 on: June 28, 2015, 04:04:50 PM »
Currently, the alternative jobs tend to pay about 1/8 of what whore jobs pay. For the casino, its easy to justify making it more lucrative than whoredom, but also more variable and more demanding in terms of required skills. The same however is hard to justify, i.e. for stripping or a waitress. UNLESS some customers would visit ONLY for having a drink or watching a show, so not assigning people to it is a lost profit opportunity.
Though, at least if the events are any indication, the 'Bar' isn't just a place for drinks, it seems to be pretty close to a restaurant in terms of food, and you'd be getting a lot more customers (especially with skilled Waitresses and with the Singer/Piano jobs operating), so even with lower income per customer, you'd still be making decent money.  Combined with the lack of risk of Rape/Disease/Pregnancy, and it'd probably be a bit lower but much more stable.

The Club, though, does seem like it'd have more of an income issue; maybe move the Escort job there?

Offline mika

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Re: Updates and Notes for Crazy's Mod --- Current Version .06.02.06
« Reply #513 on: June 28, 2015, 04:43:06 PM »
The Club, though, does seem like it'd have more of an income issue; maybe move the Escort job there?
I think, it's also a matter of balance... and also just what effect the "support" jobs exactly have.

Imagine the following (haven't thought this through much - just brainstorming):
- Income of strippers does quadruple, but this still keeps them a low-paying job, since that still would merely be half of whoredom
- Strip and massage in addition to income, raises customer satisfaction and supports the "quality" of the other jobs (i.e., a mediocre brothel whore job, might still result in an "above average" satisfied customer, if the massage staff is super).
- Strip is removed from the brothel, and becomes exclusive to the strip club - hence, the brothel is left with only one support job (massage)
- Escort jobs become available in the strip club
- New role of escort jobs: They pay even better than brothel whoring, BUT they rely stronger on support jobs than brothel whores, and the required skills for escorts are quantitatively (but not qualitatively) larger than brothel whores. That is: one or two more stats/skills are relevant, compared to a brothel whore.

This in terms of whoredom would basically create a two-class system.... the less talented and mediocre ones can start in the brothel, where demands are less numerous, and less investment into support is needed.... the payoff however is different to how it is now: At the bottom pricerange nothing changes, but the maximum ask price is lowered compared to how it is now. The club meanwhile is harder to satisfy, but if one can get the needed staff and skills, the pay per worker on average is a bit higher brothel jobs are now.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2015, 05:17:58 PM by mika »

Offline stevethemime

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Re: Updates and Notes for Crazy's Mod --- Current Version .06.02.06
« Reply #514 on: June 29, 2015, 05:50:41 AM »
Hello, 5 year off-and-on lurker here. I've recently gotten into this mod, and after seeing Mika share some of my thoughts on the balance, I figured that I might as well throw out my own design brainstorm proposal thing. It's going to be long and detailed and specific because that's how I brainstorm, but I'm obviously not expecting it to be implemented as is or anything.

The main idea behind this proposal is to turn the 'brothels' from one building into several buildings spread across 3 tiers: Low Quality Requirement, Low Max Income; Medium Quality Requirement, Medium Max Income and High Quality Requirement, High Max Income. Furthermore, the amount of money made by each establishment would be shifted over to the fame/quality of the building rather than the individual jobs. This is to encourage both more thinking about where to put someone- A low quality girl will decrease the income for everyone- as well as investing in a building long-term.

Disclaimer: I don't know if this is how some of these already work, but I'm going to list them here anyway just in case.

Prerequisites/general changes:
  • Separate buildings for each type of building, preferably a free toggle in the Buildings screen. IE. Brothel is separate from Gambling Hall, but you can change any brothel into a Gambling hall via the Buildings screen. This is to encourage buying new buildings, instead of just increasing room size, as well as allowing more interaction between jobs.
  • A Fame stat, separate from advertising, that represents the perceived quality of the building by customers. Ranges from 0 to 100. Possibly just using Customer Happiness.
  • A customer system where a customer enters the building expecting quality <Fame/Happiness>, uses all or some of the services, returns with a new quality value, and changes the Building's Fame/Happiness by a percentage of the difference between expected quality and quality.
Now for the changes of specific buildings-
Brothel:
  • The tier 1 building, has a relatively high base income that increases only slightly with quality and happiness.
  • Removal of Stripper job. Possibly Peep Show as well.
  • Income earned only on Whore Jobs.
  • Income for whoring resembling something along the lines of: Base Building Income * (100 + Looks + Purchased Sex Skill)/100
  • Effectively, a max rank girl would earn 300% of the Base Building Income.
  • The Base Building Income would be determined by Fame/Happiness, as well as a relatively large Base Brothel Cost. Something like BaseBrothelCost + (MaxFameIncome*Fame/Happiness).
  • The purpose of the Masseuse would be to increase customer satisfaction by a small amount, while being able to see 4-5 times the customers the average whore can. Thus, she wouldn't give direct profits, but rather increase the overall profits of the brothel. They can still earn tips, however.
  • The customer satisfaction formula might resemble something like this: WhoreSatisfaction*0.8 + MasseuseSatisfaction*0.3 + other(security etc.), dropping to 100 if over 100. Effectively, a max Masseuse would increase customer satisfaction by 30% for 4-5 whores, while Whoring alone couldn't net more than 80%.
  • Street Whoring would be here as well, despite not really being part of the building. Street whoring would effectively have happiness locked at 50% and have no Customer Satisfaction value. Thus, you risk hurting your girl, but get max customers and relatively large base price by default. Also a potentially good way to train a girl without hurting your profits.
Bar:
  • The low-risk tier 2 building, the bar relies on serving a lot of customers meals and drinks at a moderate price. It also has the side-income of escorts, who use the quality of the bar to earn large amounts of money from a single customer.
  • New job: Cook.
  • The primary income would be determined by simply the quality of the food and drink, multiplied by the fame/happiness of the bar. Something like: (BartenderSkill*0.5 + CookSkill*0.5)/100 * Fame. Times the base price, of course. This number would be small, but would be served to a large number of customers.
  • The primary income factor here is the number of customers that can be served. The Bartender and Cook can both serve a certain number of people depending on their constitution and such. Assume all customers want both food AND drink, so it would always be the lower number.
  • The primary purpose of Waitresses would be to increase the number of customers that can be served. Say, up to 50% more, with each waitress giving 25% at max skill. More waitresses could reduce the load and thus tiredness of the others, but the customer cap can only be increased by that much. They would still earn tips based on various stats.
  • The Escorts, on the other hand, are separate from the Fame of the building. Their job is to date a single customer, and earn money based on the experience.
  • Escorts would have two parts: The dating part, and the sex part. The dating part would be based half on the skills of the girl, and half on the atmosphere of the bar. The sex part would be based entirely on 2 or 3 of the girl's sex skills. IE: (GirlStatCalculation*0.5 + Atmosphere*0.5)/2 + (SexQuality)/2. The income would either be determined depending on a base price, or depending on the customer's traits, if that's a thing.
  • The job of the singer and pianist would then be to increase the atmosphere, thus increasing the income of escorts, while also increasing the satisfaction of all customers.
  • The customer satisfaction would be based on the food, drink and atmosphere. Say Food*0.4 + Drink*0.4 + Atmosphere * 0.3, maxing out at 100.
Strip Club:
  • The higher risk Tier 2 building, the strip club would act as a sort of Brothel+. However, each whore job would be able to charge more per customer due to them being horny from the stripper. The Stripper would also earn a large number of tips, and may be able to sell herself at a much higher price as well.
  • The Barmaid would earn a small amount of money per customer. However, due to the lowered demands relative to the Bar, the Barmaid would be able to service ALL customers at a much lower price.
  • Waitresses, then, would serve a different purpose. A small satisfaction increase for a certain number of customers based on skill would do. Also, tips.
  • The Stripper would earn a random tip from each customer, being weighted higher the higher her stip skill is. If she was good, she also has a chance of whoring for a customer at a greatly increased price.
  • The club whores would then take in customers from the strip show, and provide them a similar service to the brothel based on the quality of the strip show. Perhaps up to 500% more, while also decreasing (or even just having the customer leave) if the show was poor.
  • The Stripper can only strip for so many people at once, meaning that you need more strippers to have more whores. A good number seems like 3 max-constitution whores per stripper.
  • Customer satisfaction would return mostly based on the quality of the strip show, somewhat on the quality of whores and only slightly based on Barmaid and Waitresses. Perhaps: Strip Quality*0.6 + Whore Quality*0.4 + Bar Quality * 0.1 + Was Serviced (true/false) * 10, maxing out at 100.
Gambling Hall:
  • The highest risk, highest reward tier 3 building, the Gambling Hall is all about influencing your customers to make bad choices without hurting their satisfaction. It is somewhat of an improved Bar, having it's own bar component.
  • The Game Dealer would be able to gamble with moderate amount of customers per shift. The winnings of the house would depend partially on the skill of the dealer, partially on the rest of the building, and partially on luck. The Luck factor can be negative, and should often be, but the odds of this happening should also depend on the skill of the dealer and the rest of the building.
  • The entertainers and XXX Entertainers would serve the same purpose, with different skills. They simply increase the satisfaction of the establishment while earning tips. They would also distract the customers, increasing the earnings of the game dealers.
  • Hall Whores act as a brothel whore, except earning more from fame/happiness, and affecting the building quality far less. However, a low quality whore will negatively affect the game dealer's ability to rope the customers into gambling.
  • The Bar Component would be very similar to the independent bar, except that you get a fraction of the customers. Instead, each customer serviced by the bar would spend much more money gambling, and be less likely to make good hands. Escorts may or may not be included.
  • The Customer Satisfaction would be affected by The Game Dealers and Bar's Atmosphere mostly, but the Entertainers and Whores would increase it as well. Say: 40, 40, 20, 20 Max 100.
I would also consider adding a sort of Deluxe Brothel for Tier 3, but this took me way longer than I expected to write out. I tried to be as detailed as possible in order to encourage discussion, although I think my tiredness started to show near the end.
Any thoughts?
                              

Offline aevojoey

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Re: Updates and Notes for Crazy's Mod --- Current Version .06.02.06
« Reply #515 on: June 29, 2015, 08:32:22 AM »
The main idea behind this proposal is to turn the 'brothels' from one building into several buildings spread across 3 tiers: Low Quality Requirement, Low Max Income; Medium Quality Requirement, Medium Max Income and High Quality Requirement, High Max Income. Furthermore, the amount of money made by each establishment would be shifted over to the fame/quality of the building rather than the individual jobs. This is to encourage both more thinking about where to put someone- A low quality girl will decrease the income for everyone- as well as investing in a building long-term.
This is basically how I was thinking of doing it but I was just going to leave it as one building.
I will see how it goes when I start rewriting the Brothel.
If I had more time I would go over it in more detail but for now, continue the discussion.
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Offline Hanzo

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Re: Updates and Notes for Crazy's Mod --- Current Version .06.02.06
« Reply #516 on: June 29, 2015, 11:39:27 AM »
Reaching the max payment in non-whoring jobs is a bit... ugh. Jobperformance > 245 is required, and that means over 45 points from traits as the max you can get from stats is 200. The difference between jobperformance tiers is usually 30-40 points, but for the last one is 60.

Offline sacredferro

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Re: Updates and Notes for Crazy's Mod --- Current Version .06.02.06
« Reply #517 on: June 29, 2015, 04:26:02 PM »
Anyone else having a problem with mega.co.nz not loading anything? The site either refuses to load fully or very slowly for me.

Edit: Nvm. Seems what ever issues I was experiencing has corrected itself. Mega site is working fine now. Moving on...
« Last Edit: June 30, 2015, 02:14:08 AM by sacredferro »

Offline mika

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Re: Updates and Notes for Crazy's Mod --- Current Version .06.02.06
« Reply #518 on: June 29, 2015, 04:43:53 PM »
Quote
This is basically how I was thinking of doing it but I was just going to leave it as one building.
3 or 4 buildings might be too much tiering, but what about two buildings: 1) Brothel and stripclub, 2] Bar and casino ?

That in terms of theme would also seem to make more sense?

EDIT: Same issues with mega here.

Quote
Reaching the max payment in non-whoring jobs is a bit... ugh. Jobperformance > 245 is required, and that means over 45 points from traits as the max you can get from stats is 200. The difference between jobperformance tiers is usually 30-40 points, but for the last one is 60.
The progress in quite a few jobs... or rather, the balance between job progress in general... i think needs to redone at some point, and it would help a lot, if the player someway could get info on just what a job depends on. There also is the issue of how to train girls... save for the stuff done via training mission (i.e., combat, magic).... i find it much more effective to just let girls do whoring jobs as much as possible - faster and more lucrative than practice - also regarding experience. Really, whore jobs right now do everything.... they give the most coins, they give the most skillgains and they give the most experience. Nothing else save for constitution, combat and magic training has much of a point.

In case of whoring jobs - i'm not sure what you mean with the highest job performance - I, S or A? In any case, i can get girls surprisingly fast from E to B, but getting it from B to A takes multiple times longer, than getting it from E to B.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2015, 05:06:06 PM by mika »

Offline Jacko

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Re: Updates and Notes for Crazy's Mod --- Current Version .06.02.06
« Reply #519 on: July 01, 2015, 08:42:08 AM »
I'd prefer to not have tiered buildings. Some games I never use the brothel, and just keep my girls as strippers.

Offline CaptC

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Re: Updates and Notes for Crazy's Mod --- Current Version .06.02.06
« Reply #520 on: July 01, 2015, 03:04:30 PM »
Then just use strip clubs?

If you are going to have a distinction between job categories, it just seems reasonable to me to have buildings that reflect those distinctions.  But I don't think it necessarily has to be hard-coded, just let the person buying the faciility select which sets of jobs will be allowed in that building.  If you want everything, click all the job types.

Offline aevojoey

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Re: Updates and Notes for Crazy's Mod --- Current Version .06.02.06
« Reply #521 on: July 02, 2015, 07:36:50 AM »
I will have most of the rest of the week off so I hope to be able to rewrite the brothel by Sunday.
I have pushed what I had to github before I start the rewrite.

Update:
I have to go out now so I am pushing to github again.
I have done a few updates that don't involve the Total Brothel Rewrite, they work just fine using the old brothel code.


I will be in the chat room whenever I am working on the game if anyone wants to talk.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 11:38:24 AM by aevojoey »
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Offline Hanzo

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Re: Updates and Notes for Crazy's Mod --- Current Version .06.02.06
« Reply #522 on: July 02, 2015, 11:37:00 AM »
In case of whoring jobs - i'm not sure what you mean with the highest job performance - I, S or A? In any case, i can get girls surprisingly fast from E to B, but getting it from B to A takes multiple times longer, than getting it from E to B.

I haven't seen in the code how are the letters assigned, but I guess either S or I are 245+. If I (the rating, not me) means even higher than S and S is 245+ it doesn't matter because it isn't coded in the jobs.

There's a function for every job (jobperformance) which determines how good they are at it. It depends on stats, skills and traits. For example for stripppers it depends on Beauty, Strip, Performance and Charisma. The maximum jobperformance can reach by having all relevant skills and stats maxed (without traits) is 200, so reaching 246 or higher means traits. Going from B to A takes a lot longer because stats and skills begin to hit their cap (100) so progression gets slower.


If the payment system gets changed I can help with it.
I like something along the lines of  wages += (a * numberofcustomers) * (b * jobperformance)

It makes the number of customers matter. But whores are the best at attracting customers for now.

Offline aevojoey

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Re: Updates and Notes for Crazy's Mod --- Current Version .06.02.06
« Reply #523 on: July 02, 2015, 11:40:53 AM »
I haven't seen in the code how are the letters assigned, but I guess either S or I are 245+. If I (the rating, not me) means even higher than S and S is 245+ it doesn't matter because it isn't coded in the jobs.
Code: [Select]
string sGirl::JobRatingLetter(double value)
{
    /* */if (value < -500)        return "X    ";    // Can not do this job
    else if (value == 0)        return "0    ";    // Bad input
    else if (value >= 350)        return "   I  ";    // Incomparable
    else if (value >= 245)        return "  S  ";    // Superior
    else if (value >= 185)        return " A   ";    // Amazing
    else if (value >= 145)        return "B    "; // Better
    else if (value >= 100)        return "C    ";    // Can do it
    else if (value >= 70)        return "D    ";    // Don't bother
    else                        return "E    "; // Expect Failure
}
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Offline Hanzo

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Re: Updates and Notes for Crazy's Mod --- Current Version .06.02.06
« Reply #524 on: July 03, 2015, 06:00:04 AM »
    else if (value >= 350)        return "   I  ";    // Incomparable
I thought "I" was for impossible :D


I have an idea that can get rid of multiple copies of non-infinite items, allow the shop to carry more items and have any number of items in one slot (not only 1 or infinite). The bad is that item files will need to be updated.

This is more or less how it should work:

Use a variable like price, badness, etc (let's call it Amount) in the item file. It'll replace Infinite="true"/"false".
If Amount = 0 then it's the same as Infinite = "true".
If Amount = x , (x >= 1)  roll an x sided dice. The result of the roll will be the amount of copies of said item in that item slot.


For example, let's suppose C.G. Burger has Amount = 6.
The first time it's added to the shop a 6-sided dice is rolled. Let's suppose the result is a 4.
Then C.G. Burger x 4 is added in one slot and the game moves on the next item.

In the shop screen there's a number next to the girls' names stating the number of items they're carrying, so I guess it's doable?
« Last Edit: July 03, 2015, 06:03:38 AM by Hanzo »