devolution

Poll

What should I prioritize next? (a * after a choice means I am currently working on that)

Player Stuff
20 (8.5%)
Girl's interactions (with each other)
25 (10.7%)
Scripts (interactions with the player)
46 (19.7%)
New Stats, Skills and Traits
10 (4.3%)
Existing Stats
1 (0.4%)
Existing Skills
3 (1.3%)
Existing Traits
6 (2.6%)
Customers
5 (2.1%)
Gangs
12 (5.1%)
Rivals
8 (3.4%)
Buildings
7 (3%)
General Jobs
4 (1.7%)
Farm Jobs
9 (3.8%)
Matrons
9 (3.8%)
Items
2 (0.9%)
Remaking the interface
15 (6.4%)
New stuff
8 (3.4%)
Whore Master Editor
4 (1.7%)
No priority
3 (1.3%)
WM7
This poll will be reset when I start a new section or add more choices so check back often.
37 (15.8%)

Total Members Voted: 136

Author Topic: Updates and Notes for Crazy's Mod --- Current Version .06.04.01  (Read 937928 times)

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Offline jonwich

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Re: Updates and Notes for Crazy's Mod --- Current Version .06.02.28
« Reply #720 on: March 04, 2016, 06:17:42 PM »
Good luck with your move, mate!

Offline BlackWolf Inc.

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Re: Updates and Notes for Crazy's Mod --- Current Version .06.02.28
« Reply #721 on: March 05, 2016, 01:06:37 AM »
Hey no pressure man, hope it works out for you.
On a separate note, could you update the link for my topic on the first page
seeing as I changed username
cheers joey
Wolffy
Don't look at me like that! I found 'em that way....

Now no-one else has to die...
unless I think of another reason.

If found, please return to Miss Y. Rhul.

Offline aevojoey

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Re: Updates and Notes for Crazy's Mod --- Current Version .06.02.28
« Reply #722 on: March 05, 2016, 11:54:58 AM »
On a separate note, could you update the link for my topic on the first page seeing as I changed username
I have updated the "Girls Packs" section adding in more details about the links. They are arranged by how many girls the link has.
I also updated the Older Versions post getting rid of the dead links and making it only links to the forum posts that list the changes for those versions.
Fixing the game is a better game than actually playing it.
Get the Current Version <|> Discuss the Game <|> Report a bug

Offline BlackWolf Inc.

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Re: Updates and Notes for Crazy's Mod --- Current Version .06.02.28
« Reply #723 on: March 05, 2016, 11:41:15 PM »
Your a gentleman and a scholar sir, thank you ;)
Don't look at me like that! I found 'em that way....

Now no-one else has to die...
unless I think of another reason.

If found, please return to Miss Y. Rhul.

Offline Monty52

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Re: Image Names that the game will recognize
« Reply #724 on: March 10, 2016, 10:52:19 PM »
What exactly are Deepthroat, Eatout, Dildo, Strapon, Les69ing, Lick, Suckballs, Cowgirl, RevCowgirl, and SexDoggy used for?

I'm still confused about this...  I'm trying to find image types for these.  I could find no where in this forum where it is explained what these situations are going to be in the game.  For example, for Eatout, who is eating out who - player's girl eating another girl, a guy eating the player's girl?  or Dildo - player's girl dildoing herself, or dildoing another girl,  another girl dildoing the player's girl?  Or how about Lick - licking a vagina or licking a dick?

If there are definitions somewhere, please point me in the right direction.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2016, 10:53:57 PM by Monty52 »

Offline jonwich

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Re: Updates and Notes for Crazy's Mod --- Current Version .06.02.28
« Reply #725 on: March 11, 2016, 01:11:59 AM »
You're really thinking too hard on this, mate. I get what you're having a problem understanding, but the game doesn't have that kind of complex function built in. I'll try to explain it again.

First, a number of image types quite literally ~don't matter~ in that most of the newer image types, like Deepthroat and EatOut, are not scripted in the game. They ~can~ be used by someone programing or writing a job, or someone scripting a scene, but they currently are ~not~ used. At the moment, the most these image types do is show up in the girl's gallery. For actual gameplay, they're irrelevant, but they do give people programing or writing jobs the ability to use the image type if you want a specific scene. Scenes generally run off something much more broad, like instead of Deepthroat, they'll run Oral, or instead of Eatout, Les.

Second, it's a good rule of thumb that the actor being referred to is the girl. And the fact is, it's just broad. We have a LOT of image types already, including some that are not in use. We don't need to make more to delineate exactly and specifically the actors/actresses in a scene. That means that sometimes, you might get an Oral scene with two girls or a Lesbian scene where they use a dildo. It's not a big issue. Beyond the girl being in the scene, and the scene being roughly involved with the tag, it's pretty much open to the content creator's interpretation.

But really, all that is moot, because image packs are fan created Monty, and each creator has their own standard as to what goes where. One creator might put a double blowjob in oral, another in group, and still another might toss it in Orgy. And that's okay, it's their packs.

Now what you might consider doing is coming up with a common sense standard on how to sort pics for girlpacks, and then see if content creators will use that standard on an optional basis, but there are hundreds of girlpacks up, not all of them maintained. And of those that are maintained, it's more likely that people will want to have more content rather than go back through thousands of images and relabel them by a strict standard that will completely, always match up with the text. It's porn, it doesn't have to make complete sense. Sometimes you just get a cable man drilling a coed. I mean, I've got a WM folder that's over 90 gigs right now. That's a lot of images to mess with. The picture isn't going to completely match up with the text every single time for every single girl, and honestly, I think that's okay.

So basically, the definitions are very simple- the image is remotely tied to the tag. Nothing more, nothing less.Try not to overthink it mate.

Offline Monty52

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Re: Updates and Notes for Crazy's Mod --- Current Version .06.02.28
« Reply #726 on: March 11, 2016, 09:08:35 AM »
It's in my nature to get things done right.

I'm spending a lot of time trying to get my defaultimages set up well so that I can cover all situations appropriately.  After that, when I start getting girl packs, I will be customizing them severely.  It's hard to have to go into the game to try to find all the text that describe the situations where different images are used.  When there's no detailed reference information, it just makes it more aggravating to try to accomplish this task.

Please don't tell me I'm overthinking things.

EDIT:  In fact, when I am all done, I will make my finely tuned defaultimages pack available to everyone here at some kind of sharing site (someone will have to tell me what to use at that time, maybe mega?).  So you can either help me (and everyone else) better by giving more details about image designations, or if not can someone else respond who knows?

In the case of Deepthroat and the like (Suckballs, etc), it sounds like I'll just be having copies of the same images under Oral as well, unless the game automatically takes images from Deepthroat (for instance) and shows them in the same scenes that Oral does... but it sounds like it doesn't do that currently.  That's unfortunate, because it's wasteful to have to duplicate image files when certain actions are by nature inclusive under other actions, but not recognized by the game to be.

I still don't know what Lick is for... licking what?
« Last Edit: March 11, 2016, 09:33:13 AM by Monty52 »

Offline jonwich

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Re: Updates and Notes for Crazy's Mod --- Current Version .06.02.28
« Reply #727 on: March 11, 2016, 10:10:18 AM »
Well alright then. Good luck to you.

Offline CaptC

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Re: Updates and Notes for Crazy's Mod --- Current Version .06.02.28
« Reply #728 on: March 22, 2016, 08:34:04 PM »
It's in my nature to get things done right.

There is a well understood axiom within project management circles. "You get less control when you over-control."

How much control is appropriate differs from one project to another. Although computers are involved, pack creation is not a programming task that requires exacting design. Pack creation is appropriately named: It is a creative act. And when dealing with creative people, having a rigid standard is rarely the right way.

  • Example 1: I'm a programmer. If you want me to implement a database algorithm without determining the actual data structures, and how the results should be derived and displayed, I will not take that contract. The project is under-defined. Feature creep, miscommunication, and schedule delays are simply going to be unavoidable, and I don't need that kind of trouble in my life.
  • Example 2: I also play miniatures games. I occasionally paint miniatures for commission. If I am asked to paint a Warhammer army in Khorne colors, I will happily take that commission. I'll use red and gold as the main colors (Khorne colors, as requested), and I will use my own artistic judgment as to the colors of swords, leather belts, boots, hair and skin tones, etc. But if someone gives me three single-spaced, double-sided pages detailing every color for every part of every model, I decline the commission. The first commission is going to be happy with good artistic work. The second asshole wants to hire a perfect craftsman to implement an impossible ideal, and will be super picky about details that matter to no one but him. I don't need that kind of trouble in my life.

I suggest that pack creation is much more like example 2, and that a strict naming guide for pictures is like giving pack creators three single-spaced double-sided pages of instruction.

(A similar dichotomy exists when you are dealing with a volunteer workforce vs a paid workforce. Micromanage volunteers, and soon you won't have any workforce at all. Last I looked, I'm not getting paid to make packs.)



There is another well understood axiom in project management that may also apply: "If you can't define the problem, stop designing the solution."

I am not sure what problem you are trying to solve.
  • Perhaps you actually think there is (or should be) an objective standard for picture labels. I respectfully disagree. You are trying to over-control and micro-manage, and attempting to impose a standard on the volunteers who make packs is doomed to failure. Especially if that standard is retroactive to old packs.
  • Perhaps you just want to help pack creators determine which label to use for any specific picture. I'm all for this, but I respectfully submit that you are going about it incorrectly. As a pack creator, I am creating that pack for me. I don't really give much of a fig about what someone else thinks a particular picture should be called. I do care that I want to see that picture in a particular context within the game - and knowing which label will get it into that context is all the information I require. So if this is the case, stop trying to write a standard for the pictures, and give me a dictionary of the labels. All I really want to know is where a label makes a picture pop up. And if a label is unused, I want to know that, too.
  • Perhaps you want to create some packs, and are trying to come up with a style. Great! Welcome to the club. But do not, under any circumstances, even start to believe that your style is The Only Right Way.
  • Perhaps you are just cheesed out because some picture popped up "in the wrong place". Just change the names of the offending pictures in your local copy of the game, and call it a day. You may or may not feel it is necessary to tell the pack creator what you did. (Note: Suggesting that I should rename any picture in any of my packs will be categorically and immediately rejected, due to the obvious fact that you are simply wrong.) (Yes, that is sarcasm.)

Offline zippy57

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Re: Updates and Notes for Crazy's Mod --- Current Version .06.02.28
« Reply #729 on: March 22, 2016, 09:42:10 PM »
All I really want to know is where a label makes a picture pop up. And if a label is unused, I want to know that, too.
Considering the original question was asking for that information:
What exactly are Deepthroat, Eatout, Dildo, Strapon, Les69ing, Lick, Suckballs, Cowgirl, RevCowgirl, and SexDoggy used for?
I don't understand the issue. It's already been revealed that Deepthroat and Eatout aren't actually used in the game. That leaves Dildo, Strapon, Les69ing, Lick, Suckballs, Cowgirl, RevCowgirl, and SexDoggy. Are those used in the game? If they are, what makes them pop up?

Offline Monty52

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Re: Updates and Notes for Crazy's Mod --- Current Version .06.02.28
« Reply #730 on: March 23, 2016, 07:29:05 PM »
CapC - "Perhaps you just want to help pack creators determine which label to use for any specific picture".  I thought that was the obvious intent...

Relax.  I'm not imposing anything on "pack creators".  For one, I was trying to offer advice and show the core game designers (not the image pack creators) the benefit of using a wiki for project organization versus using just a forum for not just discussion, but also for management and general game design information.  If that was in a wiki it would help pack creators to figure out how they want to create their own packs.  You're taking offense to something I am asking for that is only a benefit to you, being a girl pack creator.  I find it bizarre that you actually took my efforts to get things clarified for us as some kind of attack on you.  And beyond that, for the game designers, it would benefit them to have a better medium for organizing their work.  Not only for their own usage, but also for others who join in to help them with the project, like you or me.

For another, I'm asking for better information about which labels to use for pictures based off of what situations the core game designers intended them to be used for... which basically involves describing the situations the different pictures would be used for in more detail than what is available in the forum currently.  This only benefits girl pack creators, because in the future if you decide to update packs or create new ones you have better reference material to base your decisions on.  If you want to do a high quality job finding appropriate pictures then you can.  If not, then don't.  I don't understand what your problem is with that.  If you have a problem with that then it is only your own opinion of your work - not mine.  I didn't say anything about your girl packs.

Oh, and yes, there are image types that are supposedly not planned on being incorporated into the core game but available for game modders who make extra scripted game content (or something like that, from my understanding).  Even still, there must have been some kind of idea what situations the image types are supposed to represent (same as the image types already included in the game, without extra scripted mods) - more than just "it's a scene involving a dildo"... more like "the actor is using a dildo on herself", or "the actor is being dildoed by a man", or "the actor is being dildoed by a girl", or even "the actor is being dildoed by either a man or a girl or possibly a whole gang of monsters".  The way the info is now - who really knows what the intent is/was...  I am working on creating an improved DefaultImages pack that is extremely thorough.  I want to get it right, so that when your girl image packs fail to include all the potential content (and that is not meant to be an attack... ok?  because there are surely many situations where you just will not be able to find a specific girl image that shows that girl doing anything resembling the intended action) mine will fill in the blanks with an appropriate alternative generalized image for the action/situation (as long as the player configures defaultimages to be the primary backup - it's up to them if they prefer that method or not).
« Last Edit: March 23, 2016, 08:16:18 PM by Monty52 »

Offline Monty52

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Re: Updates and Notes for Crazy's Mod --- Current Version .06.02.28
« Reply #731 on: March 23, 2016, 07:49:36 PM »
Even as is, I cannot find the best photos for all potential image types.  I did a pretty damned good job with non-pregnant image types... but I am having trouble with many of my pregnant variations of images.

I do have some options of how I want to deal with this.  I'll give two possibilities:

The easier way is for me is that when I cannot find at least one image for a type that displays a characteristically pregnant-theme, I can just grab images from my non-pregnant collection of that type to use for the pregnant variation of that type.  What restricts this is the fact that some of those images show the belly, which doesn't appear pregnant.  So I just don't use those particular images for the pregnant variations.

The more work-intensive way is for me to take images showing the belly of the girl who can represent the actor, and then do some image-editing of my own to expand the belly out to look pregnant.  This may actually not be too difficult for me to do, as I have already been editing a TON of the images that I will be including in my DefaultImages package.  Either to crop (most common action), remove hair showing, remove text sometimes, and other modifications.  Gaussian blur is an excellent feature, as well as the ability to temporarily create layers, etc...  Paint.net kicks ass, btw.

Offline Monty52

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Re: Updates and Notes for Crazy's Mod --- Current Version .06.02.28
« Reply #732 on: March 23, 2016, 08:24:03 PM »
I noticed that there typically isn't a lot of activity on here in the forums.  I don't have time to be tactful and slow down and try to be overly nice and persuasive.  I'm trying to get a image pack created and the lack of information available is just holding me back and making it difficult for me - something I'm going to share.  I'm sure I'm not the only one either, I'm just more vocal and more direct than most about issues.

Offline jonwich

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Re: Updates and Notes for Crazy's Mod --- Current Version .06.02.28
« Reply #733 on: March 24, 2016, 03:32:00 AM »
Considering the original question was asking for that information:I don't understand the issue. It's already been revealed that Deepthroat and Eatout aren't actually used in the game. That leaves Dildo, Strapon, Les69ing, Lick, Suckballs, Cowgirl, RevCowgirl, and SexDoggy. Are those used in the game? If they are, what makes them pop up?

If I recall, none of those are used as specific, hard-coded labels zippy. (Other than maaaaaybe Dildo) Joey may correct me on that. I tried to explain this to Monty before, maybe I'll have more luck now. (Though note, I'm in a bit of a rush, so if I don't answer it fully, please tell me)

The way the game processes images is roughly thus:

Each image tag is technically eligible to be coded/scripted into the game. When used in the code or script, the game will pull specifically from that tag, provided there is an image labeled for that tag. So, for example:

Game has a coded bit about an Oral action. Game pulls up Oral images for that girl.

But what happens if that girl has no Oral images? Not to fear, each image type that is coded into the game has backup pulls. So when the game tries to pull an Oral image, and there is no image labeled for Oral, it will then go through a list of other image types to make certain there is at least SOME type of image there. So the example then might go Oral>Deepthroat>SuckBalls>Titty>Group>Sex>Nude>Strip (Or something like that, it's just an example). So in theory, you could possibly have an image pop up from Deepthroat as a category assuming you have no Oral images, but they will only pop up assuming the game searched for an Oral tag and came up with nothing.

Then, of course, you have the DefaultImages folder, which if you've enabled properly, the game will pull from there before it even attempts to pull from secondary images. So in that case, it would be Oral>DefaultImagesOral, ignoring the other possibilities.

Now then, what makes all this moot ~for the moment~ is that the image types mentioned there, past the very basic ones (meaning those that are more descriptive, including all those mentioned there), are not hard-coded into any specific events. Which really makes sense. I don't know that it was ever said in patch notes anywhere, but adding these tags merely gave the game the ability to read images with that label, but it didn't necessarily place any instances in the game where that label is to be read. You have to understand, there are thousands of lines of code here, including a lot of scenes/dialogue that really need to be expounded on or rewritten, and new content coming as well. You're more likely to see it in new content if I can get paired up with someone that wants to splice in new dialogue. (Hint: This might be something to be brought up with the overhaul on the studio coming, it might be a good place to start adding in some of these new tags and testing how creative we can get with them.) Even scenes we currently have written would have to be gone over both by someone writing and coding, because of how it's set up. Let's take whoring for example. There are what, 5 or 6 levels of skill involved for every possible scene, and each of those scenes have multiple possible lines based on skills, traits, and general lines. All of that is then controlled by a single image tag. You'd have to go through and add (keeping with the Deepthroat idea) several lines for each difficulty, including areas with traits and no traits, and then shuffle the tags around to all of it. How that would be done, I've got no clue, though I'd assume it would involve either an individual tag system, separating it all out into some sort of else if branch, or something like that. I'd have to ask Joey or Crazy or Bsin how that might be done.

Bottom line, those images will show up in the gallery, but don't expect them to currently show up in the game. But perhaps expect them to show up in the game as we go along. When that might be, I don't yet know.

Offline Monty52

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Re: Updates and Notes for Crazy's Mod --- Current Version .06.02.28
« Reply #734 on: March 24, 2016, 07:13:26 PM »
OK, thanks for the explanation on that.

Is there someone in the core game programming group who can give image pack creators better information about what is written in the game for the different image tags?  Basically, update the image type information to give more details about what is currently written for scenes involving the image types currently included in the game, as well as more details about the plans for scenes involving the image types not currently included?  It's difficult to sift through many messages to find bits and pieces of information about it here and there that are often more along the lines of "it seems like it might be like this", rather than "this is what does happen in the game (or what will happen)".  It's hard to plan image packs out when the game design plans aren't easy to locate or descriptive enough.  I'm sure there is someone out there who can easily remember this or have notes somewhere and be like "The game scenes are currently written to describe this scene: 'Anal - male client penis in female actor asshole', 'Bath - female actor bathing herself' (is it written for showers, tubs, or spas or maybe any of the above?), 'BDSM - male/female (or maybe just male - it depends what is written in the scene texts) client dominantly deflowers submissive female actor in BDSM-style' (at least, from what I remember playing the game a year ago is that BDSM causes a loss of virginity), etc and so on..."  It would just be very helpful to have this information somewhere for anyone creating an image pack for the game and really would not take that much time for someone to do to help out in this way.  Apparently there are 50-51 image types and then Preg variations of all of them.  The descriptions would only have to really be given for the non pregnant variations because the only difference with the pregnant variations is that the actor is pregnant in the scene.  It might take an hour for someone who knows this information well.  But that effort will help tremendously, not just for me to improve my image pack before releasing it but for others in the future who create new image packs.  As CapC kind of put it (but oddly against me?), we're not getting paid to help out with the game.  Can someone make it easier for us volunteers to help?

Here's another idea: For specific sex actions that fall within the broader categories (an example would be Deepthroat, Suckballs, and Lick all being specific Oral actions), are there plans to have the game randomly choose from any of those categories in the future (if it is a male client), instead of only referring to those categories if no Oral images are available?  Maybe a female client would choose from Eatout... and maybe Lick if that was meant to be done on a pussy versus penis (but I'm still not really sure even though I spent a couple hours already trying to find pictures of women licking cocks - it would suck to find out eventually that I should have looked instead for pictures of women licking pussy, or maybe men doing it, or maybe both doing it).  Anyway, if there are plans to have the game randomly choose images of specific categories to be used alongside general ones, then those images don't have to be duplicated in image packs.  If there are no plans to do this, then the general categories, such as Oral, could benefit from also containing most (if not all) of the same duplicate images from other specific action categories - but that would be wasteful file space-wise to have to do it that way.

I'm going to follow up by saying that the information would not be forcing girl pack creators to change their image packs, but simply letting them know some important details about the types of scenes the game actually uses the images for, so they don't have to guess or spend a lot of time going into the game to try to find and trigger all the scenes to see what is written for scenes in the game (of course, for the images types not currently implemented, they wouldn't even be able to do that).  I don't want to have to go back later and fix my image pack if I find out that I used the wrong images.  It's a waste of time, and then I'd have to re-upload my files and so forth so that people can get the updates.  It's much better if it's done right the first time.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2016, 07:32:28 PM by Monty52 »