Author Topic: General Discussion  (Read 3789040 times)

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Offline DarkTl

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #5565 on: August 23, 2015, 11:32:24 AM »
Weird. Notepad+ built-in dictionary claims that I need to write "know each other" like "know eachother". Is it English neologism or something?

Offline Pseudononymous

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #5566 on: August 23, 2015, 11:44:48 AM »
Weird. Notepad+ built-in dictionary claims that I need to write "know each other" like "know eachother". Is it English neologism or something?


It's definitely an english thing, but it isn't new. We have plenty of words like that. Some where and somewhere, some thing and something. The dictionary is overly astute when it comes to these things.

It thinks of "each other" as in "This apple is green, but each other apple is red." and "eachother" as in "The apples collided with eachother."

In the first it references each subject as it's own entity, in the second both apples (subjects) are treated as one object. It's really superfluous, so don't worry about it. Everyone who knows basic English will still know what you mean, only literature and english snobs will snuff you for it really.
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Offline Armegetton

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #5567 on: August 23, 2015, 11:49:50 AM »
Game is supposed to be an open world environment with many things to do/paths to take/stories to follow. That's a premise I am working off right now.

Thank you for the reply, it really helps.

At the moment, I am really interested in making sure the girls meets way of acquiring girls is doable.

If you recall SIBR1x, a player could get 1 girl in a week through conversation (1 week was the time she was in the same place before moving) or roughly 5 days, assuming the player picked all the correct options (i.e. best case senario). and later in the game could get a girl in 1 - 2 days with super effective items and/or money.

I'm not saying this game should be similar. But my question would be: How many days should it take before acquiring a girl, through only conversation?
or is this not supposed to be possible?
Because currently this game also doesn't give a freebie girl at the beginning either (or will it?)

how many days via proper items?
how many days via money?
and then later in the game with more charisma and item effects, what the best possible time would be to get a girl?

if you aren't sure, it's no worries. I was just wondering if you had a rough idea of how much time you wanted.

or is it no longer supposed to be that simple? should it be over the course of multiple months and multiple strategies?
like do you want players to have to befriend them, then date them, then lovers, etc and basically use all the options before using "proposition"?

and finally, I'm wondering more about the "proposition" option.
perhaps ... will players have a "slums" area where it'll be easier to hire cheap, easy, low maintenance girls?
if the girls are desperate, shouldn't they be easier to get?
or is the slave market going to be the only source like that?



Committed and pushed, but it isn't showing up on GitHub. It showed the changes, staged them, and pushed them, gave me the green check and "up to date" message, but I'm not seeing the update on the git repo.

Yeah, I'm not seeing it either. Maybe it only did it locally? Github is new to me, but at SF you needed a username /password and the ssh link to push properly. Not sure if this one needs it or not.
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Offline Pseudononymous

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #5568 on: August 23, 2015, 12:04:51 PM »

and finally, I'm wondering more about the "proposition" option.
perhaps ... will players have a "slums" area where it'll be easier to hire cheap, easy, low maintenance girls?
if the girls are desperate, shouldn't they be easier to get?
or is the slave market going to be the only source like that?


Yeah, I'm not seeing it either. Maybe it only did it locally? Github is new to me, but at SF you needed a username /password and the ssh link to push properly. Not sure if this one needs it or not.

I like that idea, makes logical sense. That's a back-end idea, near full release of a late version, but I agree with what your saying here, great idea.

Did the push again, went through. Everyone should be able to pull it now. Checked git and the update is posted. *thumbs up*
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #5569 on: August 23, 2015, 12:07:37 PM »
There will be slave training as soon as Xela will code a base for it, probably after the next release. Like in SM, it will be possible to train and sell slaves.

I don't mean to butt in, but I'm thinking that is exactly what he wants. not only same size and pixel resolution, but the same number of buffer alpha pixels so that when the pictures are cropped together, the total picture will still be a circle. like:
Yup. That's how the original artist made them, I just removed background. They are not perfect circles, and it brings problems for multielemental characters when we take fragments of elemental icons and show them together.

In the first it references each subject as it's own entity, in the second both apples (subjects) are treated as one object. It's really superfluous, so don't worry about it. Everyone who knows basic English will still know what you mean, only literature and english snobs will snuff you for it really.
I see, thanks for the clarification.

Offline Xela

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #5570 on: August 23, 2015, 12:16:47 PM »
or is it no longer supposed to be that simple?

This...

and finally, I'm wondering more about the "proposition" option.
perhaps ... will players have a "slums" area where it'll be easier to hire cheap, easy, low maintenance girls?
if the girls are desperate, shouldn't they be easier to get?
or is the slave market going to be the only source like that?

And this.

>>>
Hiring process will depend a lot on the mcs level, stats and what kind of businesses he already owns + financial situation. Maybe on reputation/fame as well but we are not yet sure how to utilize those in the game properly.
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Offline Armegetton

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #5571 on: August 23, 2015, 12:26:48 PM »
This...

And this.

>>>
Hiring process will depend a lot on the mcs level, stats and what kind of businesses he already owns + financial situation. Maybe on reputation/fame as well but we are not yet sure how to utilize those in the game properly.

hmm, so this will all work late-game. But early game; isn't the player screwed unless they use the slave market?

also, I just went in there and saw that level 1 girls (beggars) are going for ~3k gold. holy expensive!
I thought a meal is ~10 gold.

edit: hmm, are slaves supposed to be getting paid? why would I pay my slave a wage?
edit2: it seems that when I switch a girls location, the action doesn't get reset, so I can have a girl "at home" but still "training" from another building's option
« Last Edit: August 23, 2015, 12:35:29 PM by Armegetton »
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #5572 on: August 23, 2015, 12:32:32 PM »
At the moment, I am really interested in making sure the girls meets way of acquiring girls is doable.

If you recall SIBR1x, a player could get 1 girl in a week through conversation (1 week was the time she was in the same place before moving) or roughly 5 days, assuming the player picked all the correct options (i.e. best case senario). and later in the game could get a girl in 1 - 2 days with super effective items and/or money.

I'm not saying this game should be similar. But my question would be: How many days should it take before acquiring a girl, through only conversation?
or is this not supposed to be possible?
Because currently this game also doesn't give a freebie girl at the beginning either (or will it?)

how many days via proper items?
how many days via money?
and then later in the game with more charisma and item effects, what the best possible time would be to get a girl?
It's more complicated than it might seem.
- You need to use simple options at first, like chat. You cannot use complex, advanced options from the beginning because characters simply refuse without some base disposition.
With some basic disposition you can try more advanced stuff like eat together or give a gift, and they will give more disposition than simple ones.

- Disposition =/= hiring for work. I don't know if we will add social levels, but we can just check level and gold. Poor characters will be available with disposition close to 0.
Ideally, we could use social levels here, but they require a clear concept which we lack.

- It's very costly to quickly rise disposition via money. Every time the game checks how much money the girl already has. And if you propose not enough compared to her amount of cash, it won't work. They spend money little by little though, but basically it's just another option and not an independent way.
 
- We don't have enough gifts yet to make them important. We decided to use special items  that cannot be used or equipped as gifts, but we really could use at least 50 while currently we have 22.

Now, if by acquiring a girl you mean hiring, it should be based on many things and in the case of weak, low level characters rather simple.
And if you mean drag them to bed, that's a matter of 600-800 disposition depending on traits, or simply money if the character is working in sex industry.


Committed and pushed, but it isn't showing up on GitHub. It showed the changes, staged them, and pushed them, gave me the green check and "up to date" message, but I'm not seeing the update on the git repo.
I can see it on Github and my pc.

Offline Pseudononymous

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #5573 on: August 23, 2015, 12:43:12 PM »
Yep, push went through. Let me know if it works for you. It "should" but if not I don't know what more I could do in this case. It sounds as though you're simply merging spheres to make the mult-elem displays, which should all line up fine.

If that was handled properly, I'm ready for my next assignment.

Git:1
Pseudo:1

Time for a tie breaker. 
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Offline Armegetton

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #5574 on: August 23, 2015, 12:51:31 PM »
It's more complicated than it might seem.
- You need to use simple options at first, like chat. You cannot use complex, advanced options from the beginning because characters simply refuse without some base disposition.
With some basic disposition you can try more advanced stuff like eat together or give a gift, and they will give more disposition than simple ones.

- Disposition =/= hiring for work. I don't know if we will add social levels, but we can just check level and gold. Poor characters will be available with disposition close to 0.
Ideally, we could use social levels here, but they require a clear concept which we lack.

- It's very costly to quickly rise disposition via money. Every time the game checks how much money the girl already has. And if you propose not enough compared to her amount of cash, it won't work. They spend money little by little though, but basically it's just another option and not an independent way.
 
- We don't have enough gifts yet to make them important. We decided to use special items  that cannot be used or equipped as gifts, but we really could use at least 50 while currently we have 22.

Now, if by acquiring a girl you mean hiring, it should be based on many things and in the case of weak, low level characters rather simple.
And if you mean drag them to bed, that's a matter of 600-800 disposition depending on traits, or simply money if the character is working in sex industry.

I'm re-posting the comment I made from https://github.com/XelaPy/PyTFall/issues/72

Quote
I personally would like having a "social level". But for the main character instead of gold/level check, wouldn't it be better if it were affected by what items you are wearing, and maybe thresholds for intelligence and charisma? (or maybe just the items) that way, you could have events or checks for high "social level" as well as low "social level", to wear cheap clothes to maybe get into a shady area. just my thoughts.
and for the slaves it could be based on education levels (from taking classes or training) with bonuses from items.

basically, instead of every girl starting at social level 0, higher level girls can be found and perhaps they would come with higher training levels or even already equipped items. But they would be virtually impossible to hire/court unless the mc had similar or higher social level. (or could be lower with some event)

So, if hiring a low level girl doesn't need much disposition, maybe we could show her social level on the girls meets screen.
and if the mc is lacking social level at the time of hiring, the mc can use additional gold to offset the missing social level as a 'down payment' of sorts. (to a limit, of course)


the levels could be from 0 - 10 where 0 is beggar and 10 is the equivalent of royalty. players would start at 0 (or 1 maybe with certain pre-game choices?)
too simple? too complicated?



Yep, push went through. Let me know if it works for you. It "should" but if not I don't know what more I could do in this case. It sounds as though you're simply merging spheres to make the mult-elem displays, which should all line up fine.

If that was handled properly, I'm ready for my next assignment.

Git:1
Pseudo:1

Time for a tie breaker. 
Pull and update worked on this side.

Grats.


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Offline Xela

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #5575 on: August 23, 2015, 01:07:32 PM »
Did the push again, went through. Everyone should be able to pull it now. Checked git and the update is posted. *thumbs up*

Yey! (take a look at before after images)

hmm, so this will all work late-game. But early game; isn't the player screwed unless they use the slave market?

 ??? What? Why? Where? When? How?  ???

Interactions are means to establish a relationship and trust between characters, figuring out what a character is like, her (maybe his as well in the future) goals in life as well as running H scenes and etc. If a character is ok with working at one of your businesses, there will be no issues. They are free people, they work, get payed and live their lives otherwise. If a character actually wants to work for you will depend on a number of things (wage, buildings, neighborhoods, disposition, flags, charisma and etc.). So if you are known to be running a brothel for a couple of month/years or have some flag from a start of the game (like a son of brothel owner), they may be interested even if you just met them even if you still have limited resources. If they are not interested in working in a brothel at all (not just as prostitutes but not even as guards) it may not even be possible to recruit them at all. If your backstory is of a warrior origin it may be a whole different scenario.

===
Try think about the game in terms of a logical simulation of a city, with people (who have goals), businesses (maybe even AI ran businesses to compete with you), neighborhoods with different rules (crime infested Flee Bottom, decent Midtown, Corrupted/Rich/Kinky RichFord). There may be other cities in the future, politics module to change laws and etc. But that is what I would like to have in a couple of years. Also some form of exploration...

I have no idea how far we will get with this...

For now we are trying to set limited, manageable goals for the next release, most of them you can review as issues at GitHub. Mainly we're working on differentiating personality types with conversations/behavior, coming up with interface design, adding content and write code that can support the future plans without large modification (code that was written for Alpha could not). Also adding written content VN like special effects because even with a very decent simulation, game will be boring without it AND we promised some after previous release.

also, I just went in there and saw that level 1 girls (beggars) are going for ~3k gold. holy expensive!
I thought a meal is ~10 gold.

We'll review that as well, eventually I want a price of slaves to be determined by Economy Module, maybe I'll even code something simple in that department before the next release.
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #5576 on: August 23, 2015, 01:20:23 PM »
the levels could be from 0 - 10 where 0 is beggar and 10 is the equivalent of royalty. players would start at 0 (or 1 maybe with certain pre-game choices?)
too simple? too complicated?
If you want to build a concept, you will have to think through all details.

- Not just names for 0 and 10 levels, but names for all levels.
- Rough conditions for social levels. Level? Money? Something else?
- Ingame differences between the levels besides hiring process. Better rooms? Better food? Their effects? Income per day?

If that was handled properly, I'm ready for my next assignment.
If you want to work with graphics, I can link you our db folders and you can make some gifts items.
If you prefer to create new graphics, you could try to make unique icons for traits. But it won't be easy.
If you want to work with lines or interactions coding, I can tell how interactions and lines can be improved.
If you want to make packs, by all means go ahead and do any packs you want. You will need my tagger and some h-pictures sources, I can give links that I personally use for pack making.
If you want to do something related to pure coding, ask Xela  :)
« Last Edit: August 23, 2015, 01:26:25 PM by DarkTl »

Offline Pseudononymous

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #5577 on: August 23, 2015, 01:33:31 PM »
Yey! (take a look at before after images)


Critique: If the elements are not required to be parsed in any particular order for the multi-elem sphere I might suggest a new order because:

1.) It looks like the ice orb (second from the right) has a small bit jutting out, but that is just the graphic I assure you it is an identical size.

2.) The earth element at the end of the line, seems to be slightly cropped. I can lower the res to make it smaller if it has to fit within a certain window, but the neutral element was 416x416 or something like that and it fit fine before I lowered the res.

The rest of it looks fine. So I'd suggest swapping the ice and earth elements with some other two.
 
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Offline Xela

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #5578 on: August 23, 2015, 01:47:31 PM »
If that was handled properly, I'm ready for my next assignment.

Gismo has put a lot of good time into design lately so in many areas we actually have more graphics than code (:D :D :D Damn that j*rk!  :D  :D  :D ).

I think Bestiary is a good bet. Broken after mobs rewrite, it needs design (did have one either, I just used colored frames and simple text). Mobs in PyTFall have the following attributes:

Code: [Select]
     {
        "name": "King Slime",
        "desc": "This slime became big enough to have rudiments of intelligence.",
        "front_row": 0,
        "battle_sprite": "content/npc/mobs/a.png",
        "portrait": "content/npc/mobs/a1.png",
        "race": "Slime",
        "locations": [],
        "min_lvl": 35,
        "basetraits": [
            "Juggernaut", "Mage"
        ],
        "stats": {
            "attack": 20,
            "defence": 50,
            "magic": 30,
            "agility": 40,
            "luck": 10,
            "charisma": 40
        },
        "skills": {},
        "traits": ["Water", "Slime"],
        "attack_skills": [
            "FistAttack"
        ],
        "magic_skills": [
            "Watera",
            "Waterga"
        ]
    },


Code: [Select]
    {
        "name": "Samurai",
        "desc": "A fast and agile swordsman.",
        "front_row": 1,
        "battle_sprite": "content/npc/mobs/g.png",
        "portrait": "content/npc/mobs/g1.png",
        "race": "Human",
        "locations": [],
        "min_lvl": 10,
        "basetraits": [
            "Assassin", "Warrior"
        ],
        "stats": {
            "attack": 30,
            "defence": 15,
            "magic": 15,
            "agility": 25,
            "luck": 15,
            "charisma": 15
        },
        "skills": {},
        "traits": ["Human", "Neutral"],
        "attack_skills": [
            "SwordAttack"
        ],
        "magic_skills": [
        ]
    },

Information on the screen should include:

- name
- description
- basetraits: Very important part. These determine what kind of an enemy this is and how it is leveled so this should have special place in the design. There can not be more than two!
- elements: These are part of traits but should be singled out!.
- race
- attack_skills
- magic_skills (could be absent)
- portrait (if sensible)
- sprite (maybe portrait)


We have loads of mobs, they can be put into a viewport, paging will be required otherwise. Design is up to you, it's prolly sensible to keep to the general themed Wood but if you have other ideas, go ahead with that.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2015, 02:28:35 PM by Xela »
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Offline Xela

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #5579 on: August 23, 2015, 02:00:06 PM »

Critique: If the elements are not required to be parsed in any particular order for the multi-elem sphere I might suggest a new order because:

1.) It looks like the ice orb (second from the right) has a small bit jutting out, but that is just the graphic I assure you it is an identical size.

2.) The earth element at the end of the line, seems to be slightly cropped. I can lower the res to make it smaller if it has to fit within a certain window, but the neutral element was 416x416 or something like that and it fit fine before I lowered the res.

The rest of it looks fine. So I'd suggest swapping the ice and earth elements with some other two.

I'm perfectly happy with the result :)

I'll play with it tonight to see what's what but I what you're asking may not be easy to do, there can be many different combinations of these elements so unless we can come up with a simple way of sorting them as you prefer, it is simply not reasonable to spend time trying to make it perfect.

Edit:

1) Neutral element is always shown on it's own. It's sort of a lack of all other elements.
2) Earth element may be cropped by the way that frame is designed in Ren'Py, I just hacked my way through, it wasn't easy to work with differently sized pictures.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2015, 02:04:49 PM by Xela »
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