Pie, Pi, and Carl Sagan

[TF]

I think having both is certainly optimal, but I'd much rather have a good story than no story if I have to choose. I also think I have a bit in common with ShiningRadiance in that asserting dominance is a major turn on. I've got a bit of experience writing and wouldn't mind contributing at all. Previously, I had some aspirations towards writing some events out, but was convinced it would be better to wait until the event system actually worked.

Anyway, I'm not really a programmer at all, and even the old event system was a more than a little confusing to me, but if you'd like someone to simply write up some story elements, I'd be glad to contribute. I'd like to end up writing some events as well, especially if someone could actually work with me to get the coding side committed properly. If someone wants to point me in the direction of something that needs to be written, I'd be happy to knock out something to show what I can do. (Looks at DocClox as the person who would know best.) <_<

[DocClox]

More than happy to have your input - just  give me a week or so and let me get the event system a bit more stable, and then we'll see what we need done and who wants to tackle what

[necno]

With the new game I'm making I'm aiming for both. Think of morrowind, oblivion and fallout 3, they aim for both focus less on the sandbox aspect. What I'm aiming to do is create scripted quests and generated quests. If you think of the left 4 dead games I'm using a similar system although not as advanced (doesn't need to be with the style of game I'm making).

[TF]

I can't say I'm intimately familiar with the Left 4 Dead games, but I played a few times, and the only "quest" I can remember is the "Be Alive at the End of the Level" quest.

[laverinthe]

There were the "don't set off car alarms" quest, but that was more of a secondary objective.  Maybe more like Riot Response for the PS2.

[necno]

With left 4 dead I'm referring to the AI director. It monitors the situation in the game and creates game events to spice things up depending on how well (or bad) the characters are doing. What I'm going to do is something similar, except instead of just spawning enemies and 'treasure' it will also spawn quests that it will build from event templates and mix and match parts of templates to create longer quests.

The initial release of the game will probably only have a basic version of this method so don't expect anything fancy but I plan to build on it as I will want to use the technology in some future games as well.

A good example of how this might work in the game is say your making a sizeable living through farming and your family is doing really well. Then the game might create a drought causing you some hardship, or it might spawn some fairy creatures that will reek havoc in your crops. While if you are doing really poorly you might be given the chance to aid a fey creature which will reward you handsomely. Now its hard to say how detailed I will be able to get this AI director in this game but I will be aiming for this level.

[TF]

That actually sounds pretty cool (and I never even knew that was in the Left 4 Dead games,) except that what you're saying just sounds like punishment for players who are doing well and rewards for those who do poorly. Communism!

But seriously... I think I'd find it easier to get behind if (and this is assuming the game *can* be set up this way) a person who's performing exceedingly well will find that achieving the next milestone (say they need to gather wood and supplies to build a larger farm) much more difficult to achieve (many more monsters in the woods the trees come from, or additional quests need to be performed to get... planning approval or whatever.)

It'd also be nice if players who beat the higher odds get something to show for it... not necessarily something that aids in the game, but possibly something like a trophy. Better furniture for the harder won improved house, maybe.

Anyway, seems to me like hitting people with bad events for doing things right is just mean.

[necno]

heh, yeah it sounds a little mean but as it is going on behind the scenes and should be subtle then the player will hopefully never notice what is going on. It is basically a way to increase the difficultly while the player is playing. It will take into account also how new the player is, for example if the character is just starting a new game it will certainly not spawn a dragon in the woods.


In addition the AI will follow the very important game design rule of just rewards. That is if you overcome something difficult you will get a reward equal to that difficultly.

[ShiningRadiance]

...Do all topics end up off-topic like this?

Oh well.

[Lorde]

I just have one, very important question to ask. Is Left 4 Dead playable single player or is it multiplayer only? I always assumed the latter. If it's the former then I'm gonna feel stupid and probably pic up one of the 2 games next week.

[megamanx]

It has single player but the others are CPU who won't be much if any help, kinda like slimes of dragon quest series.

[Lorde]

That explains This then. 

[Mehzerz]

...Do all topics end up off-topic like this?

Oh well.

lol I have yet to see one that hasn't. In all fairness, I think both parties will be happy (enough) with what seems to be decided on. Which is to go with the story route, keep things with some sort of progression, but offer the sandbox mode as an option for anyone who isn't interested in that sort of thing. Leaving the game open to them to explore as they please.


As for the MC being silent or not, well that seems to be undecided still. I'm actually rather interested in everyones opinion on that. All I've heard so far are explanations as to scenarios where it works and doesn't. As well as neutral stances on both. I've yet to see any of the Devs make a decision as well. It's their game after all. Other than Doc who seems to be going for the personal MC, I've yet to see any opinions on the matter.
So to keep it simple, who prefers what and why?


I'll start,
Preference is Silent.
Why: Despite the suggestion on creating a sort of "guide" as to how the MC should be personalized I still highly doubt he'll be as defined as the original writer had set him. Now after reading how writing for a personal MC could be easier, I can't disagree on that at all. The problem there is continuity and i'm still not convinced he'll be consistently defined with several different modders out there writing their own scripts.

[Lorde]

 
 
  I'll start,
  Preference is Silent.
  Why: Despite the suggestion on creating a sort of "guide" as to how the   MC should be personalized I still highly doubt he'll be as defined as   the original writer had set him. Now after reading how writing for a   personal MC could be easier, I can't disagree on that at all. The   problem there is continuity and i'm still not convinced he'll be   consistently defined with several different modders out there writing   their own scripts.
 

Well We could just give the MC Schizophrenia as a unremovable trait to explain why his personality jumps around so much. 

Another less lulzy solution would be to set up a frame work for the MC. This way, script writers will have a list of major events to write for. This won't stop all people from writing piecemeal scripts for the MC. But we should get a few coherent  MC's out of the deal. 
 

[Mehzerz]

Well We could just give the MC Schizophrenia as a unremovable trait to explain why his personality jumps around so much. 

Another less lulzy solution would be to set up a frame work for the MC. This way, script writers will have a list of major events to write for. This won't stop all people from writing piecemeal scripts for the MC. But we should get a few coherent  MC's out of the deal.

Well you're right. We have to be honest here, anyone can write the MC however they want. Even if WM goes in the route of a talking MC then someone can just later go through the entire game and adjust it so that the MC is silent. Or if someone doesn't like how the MC is written they could just simply re-write the entire script changing the personality completely. My choice for the silence isn't due to a gameplay preference but more so a modding one. I'd be much more comfortable writing scripts and events for a silent MC than a voiced one.
"I" want to know what everyone else thinks on this... and I don't think I've seen yours or much of anyones opinion on the matter. Do you plan on writing your own scripts? Choosing the direction for this will change WM quite considerably.