Pink Petal Games
Game Discussion => General Discussion & Download => Topic started by: DocClox on October 09, 2010, 09:23:15 AM
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I've been playing with an idea for a week or so.
- It's a turn based, multiplayer arena game where each player trains slavegirls to fight against other players' monsters, and monsters to fight the other players' girls.
- If a girl loses a fight she can get raped. If she gets raped, she may get pregnant. If she gets pregnant, she becomes the other player's property.
- Each player is associated with a city ward, with traditional rivalries and alliances beteen the wards giving rise to duels and challenge matches
- As well as arena fights, there are orders to socialise, train, have sex ... that sort of thing
- Each turn represents a month of game time. The player can take one action each week, as can his slaves.
- The game client will use email to communicate with the server program
- Girls use a similar format to WM's girlpacks so that you get lots of pictures
- Players get return of orders by email, and a turn report will be published on the PPG forums.
That's the basic idea anyway. Currently I'm just noodling around with XML and SQL and GUI design. But I thought I'd post and gague people's interest
(Incidentally, I know a lot of you would prefer me to be working on WM, or failing that Clonemaster. I've tried, and I can't get my brain to co-operate at the moment. So if my mind insists on grasshoppering, I'm going to follow where it hops for a while. We apologise for any inconvenience this may cause
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Forgot to say: kudos to Odna on hongfire (http://www.hongfire.com/forum/showthread.php?t=227044&pagenumber=) for the initial idea
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Seems like it could be fun. Might lead to a bit of a more active forum too.
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A really good idea.
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A really good idea.
Which reminds me: kudos is due to Odna on Hongfire for the basic slavegirl/monster/pregnancy/arena idea. Credit where credit's due, and all that :)
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Sounds really cool. I don't really care for multiplayer games... but it sounds like a cool idea.
Besides whether you work on WM or not, it's fun knowing I have a chance to play with whatever it is interests you in the moment. :p
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Sounds fun!!
How does the player get the initial first girl/s?? Would the server randomly assign girls to players?? Would the server have an online 'slave market' and players would have to pick from what is available??
I'm curious how you could prevent players from cheating.
(seems like it would be simple for player's to edit their emails before sending them to the server?? Unless i'm missing something)
Would the Gladiatrix League be something like a simplified collectible card game, ala Magic: The Gathering??
Or would it be more like the current WM but with the focus on training girls instead of whoring??
Either way, Go for it!! Like Amoeba said, It would give the community something to talk about on the forums.
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Just some quick suggestions; writing a service that uses xml or json is just as easy as using email, but it's a more marketable skill these days (I don't remember if you had a real software job already or if this was just a hobby). Since you have a real front end, the users won't care either way.
Second, and this is less of a quick suggestion and more of a design suggestion, go real time. If it's a multiplayer game, one action per week is going to be kinda boring. Go real time and support scheduling of actions. Here's an example:
Player 1 has three or four slaves/monsters. He logs in on Sunday morning before church and sees that his npc's weekly action points have reset, so he decides that he'll put the girls in training for today (-x action points), have one fight tomorrow while the others watch (-y action points for the one, -z for the other two (with a tiny xp bonus for watching fights)), then he'll continue to schedule actions for as long as he feels like it (up to several months in advance if you want). If the game sees that his actions are possible, it accepts the schedules and will require no further input unless something happens to make the schedule invalid (a girl gets impregnated and trades ownership, a girl gets killed or seriously injured in a fight, loses the ability to fight via being crippled, etc). If a schedule is invalidated, an email can be generated to alert that player, or he can just find out the next time he fires up the client. Girls with invalid schedules can just default to something sensible if the player can't update them (rest to recover in cases of injury, in cases of pregnancy/change of ownership the player can't have any input for her anyway).
The point of this suggestion is that it allows players to be as lazy as they want, logging in very infrequently without punishing them, while allowing more active players to be as hands on as they want (scheduling per day, for example) without rewarding them with anything other than fun and slightly more optimal results (say they look at the arena schedule, see a girl they know they would like a shot at owning, so they pick one of their girls who can probably beat her and schedule a fight at the same time hoping they get paired up).
So, yeah, the scheduling thing and having the program do results once per day might be more annoying to write than once per week, but I think it's more rewarding for players to be able to pick how active they want to be. And as it's a suggestion, I won't be offended if you tell me to go fuck myself :)
Edit: Another benefit of allowing long schedules is that it will make it easier to seed the game with "NPC players" when starting out to make sure all players have enough opponents in gladiator matches, while letting it eventually become all real players once there are enough to keep it going.
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How does the player get the initial first girl/s?? Would the server randomly assign girls to players?? Would the server have an online 'slave market' and players would have to pick from what is available??
There's going to be an auction in week one of each month. The slaves (and monsters) on offer will be listed each turn, and players get to put in sealed bids. Players will get a "turn zero" where they have some gold and a list of slaves at the auction.
I'm curious how you could prevent players from cheating.
(seems like it would be simple for player's to edit their emails before sending them to the server?? Unless i'm missing something)
I'm going to keep a database of the player's position at this end. The payer can claim to have a million gold in his orders, but the server will use the value on the database. So players are free to edit the orders file. Or hand edit the XML, or even write their own client programs. It's all good :)
Would the Gladiatrix League be something like a simplified collectible card game, ala Magic: The Gathering??
Or would it be more like the current WM but with the focus on training girls instead of whoring??
mmm... probably more like the current WM. I'm loosely basing it on a game called En Garde! (http://www.engarde.co.uk/). Although thinking about it, there are probably some ideas I can lift from MtG.
Just some quick suggestions; writing a service that uses xml or json is just as easy as using email, but it's a more marketable skill these days (I don't remember if you had a real software job already or if this was just a hobby). Since you have a real front end, the users won't care either way.
Well, I'm using XML as the data format. I'm using email because I don't need a server that way. I might do a screenscaping interface for folks with gmail accounts so the client can auto-post the orders.
Second, and this is less of a quick suggestion and more of a design suggestion, go real time. If it's a multiplayer game, one action per week is going to be kinda boring. Go real time and support scheduling of actions.
Hmmm ... sounds good in a Zynga sort of way. It's an order of magnitude more complicated than I had in mind though, and I'm hoping to get back to WM/Clonemaster at some point.
So, yeah, the scheduling thing and having the program do results once per day might be more annoying to write than once per week, but I think it's more rewarding for players to be able to pick how active they want to be. And as it's a suggestion, I won't be offended if you tell me to go fuck myself :)
I wouldn't do that :) But I'm probably going to stick with the original plan for now. I can complicate matters later if a need presents itself.
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I like the idea, sounds pretty cool.
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I haven't played a PBM game for years but this sounds like fun way to bring them back to me.
To those who think the action will be a little slow, you will probably find yourself agonising for ages over which orders to issue. When you only have one turn a week and no save/reload option theres a great deal of satisfaction from receiving a nice set of results.
Unless the game has a limited time frame there might need to be some NPC's for players to attack or a way to buy yourself back in with some sort of starting bonus related to the number of game turns that have already passed, (not as good as having survived all the turns otherwise what's the point of winning the fights), otherwise you will start losing players pretty rapidly. Unless of course that's how you want to find a round winner :)
If it helps you get yourself back on track for WM and Clonemaster then thats even better.
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OK then :)
So: for the client app, I thought I'd use .NET. Should run on Linux under mono, for those interested in such details. (I'd sooner use GTK, but then I have to bundle the library with the program and all that). Anyway...
(http://content.imagesocket.com/images/screeny381.jpg)
That's just the interface for one tab. There's six more tabs need designing, and then the code to go with them :)
I'm not happy with that logo at all, but it'll do for now.
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Twenty minutes with Inkscape later...
(http://content.imagesocket.com/images/logo3829.png)
Still not perfect, but much closer to what I wanted to achieve
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It works better still when the drop shadow isn't completely obscured by the text .... :o
(http://content.imagesocket.com/images/logo4204.png)
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For those of you who speak XML, this is a first cut a the format for orders. I'm going to document this, so that people can write their own clients if they wish.
<orders player_id="1" pc_name="alf">
<!--
! Auction orders. Bidding on slaves uses a "sealed bid" system.
! The available slaves and monsters are listed at the end of one turn,
! And players put in their bid in the next turn.
!
! Auctions are always in week one. Players don't need to attend to bid,
! but if the do, they get an extra 10% added to their bids for purposes
! of determining the winner.
!
! I might also give a chance of improving one of their slaver skills
! as well
!
! Hmm... at some point I'm going to want players to be able to trade
! girls directly among themselves. This would seem to be place to do
! it, although "auction" then becomes a little misleading...
!
! "livestock?" Of course, most players are never going to look at the
! files, but that's no reason not to select fitting tag names.
!-->
<auction>
<bid amount = "200"
target = "fanny mae"
combatant_id = "123"
/>
<!--
! same syntax for girls and monsters
! only going to be a problem if we have a girl
! and a monster with the same name
!
! ....
!
! maybe I better add in the combatant_ids
! (in which case I don't need the name, of course...
! but better to leave it in for debug purposes).
!-->
<bid amount = "100"
target = "freddy mac"
combatant_id = "456"
/>
<!--
! Sell works slightly differently. It takes effect from the
! end of the turn when the combatant is sold. So you can
! still put Gobbo the Goblin in the arena the same turn you
! write a sell order for him. He only vanishes from your
! employment if he is sold at the start of the next turn
!-->
<sell target = "loser mczero"
reserve = "20"
combatant_id = "789"
/>
</auction>
<!--
! Normally financial adjustments happen automatically.
! Funds from fights, upkeep for slaves ... all gets deducted by the
! server
!
! This is here mainly so players can give one another gifts/loans/bribes
! or whatever
!-->
<finances>
<give target = "joe otherplayer"
combatant_id = "001"
amount = "100"
/>
</finances>
<period week="1">
<actor name = "owner"
action = "teaching"
partner = "girl1"
target = "magic"
/>
<actor name = "girl1"
action = "student"
partner = "owner"
target = "magic"
/>
<actor name = "monster2"
action = "rest"
/>
</period>
<!--
!--more of the same here
<period week="2"></period>
<period week="3"></period>
<period week="4"></period>
<!--
! Pregnant girls have separate orders
!-->
<mares>
</mares>
</orders>
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It would be great if there were a single player option as well but so far this looks awesome.
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Hmmm... I suppose the only difficulty with a single player version would be the AI for the opponent bots. Doable, but not a priority for now :)
Meanwhile, here's another screen. The panel should/will scroll if there are more girls than will fit. I'll probably put the player character in there too, rather than create a "trainer" tab. (Yes, player characters can fight in the arena, but you could lose your character if things go badly wrong...)
(http://content.imagesocket.com/images/screeny205c.jpg)
I'm well on the way to being able to parse that XML as well. It's good to be doing something again :)
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Here's a question. or suggestion. Whatever. Do you think the different wards would have different flavors of mons? Say for the weaker ones Spark End having a small robot/rape machine, Sleazes with ratmen, Pentangle Square with Goblins, ect ect. Not sure how much work that'd be even if the stats don't differ, but I think it'd make the rivalry a bit more fun. But then this uses an auction sort of thing. So for something like this to work, I'd guess the auctions would be for a rank of creature and trades to actually trade the creature itself.
Yeah, seems like it might be a pain in the ass for you. Still, throwing it out there.
*edit* Also, what are Broodmares supposed to be?
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i think the brood mares are the ones you have captured and impregnated
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Here's a question. or suggestion. Whatever. Do you think the different wards would have different flavors of mons? Say for the weaker ones Spark End having a small robot/rape machine, Sleazes with ratmen, Pentangle Square with Goblins, ect ect.
I was thinking of having monsters sold by auction like the girls. If nothing else, it has the advantage of being simple. I do definitely want the wards to have an effect on the game, beyond generating rivalries between players.
I can definitely find a role for that Spark End Rape Machine though :)
Not sure how much work that'd be even if the stats don't differ, but I think it'd make the rivalry a bit more fun. But then this uses an auction sort of thing. So for something like this to work, I'd guess the auctions would be for a rank of creature and trades to actually trade the creature itself.
I'll think about it. Nothing is set in stone just yet :)
i think the brood mares are the ones you have captured and impregnated
Spot on. They get separate actions, and only do one thing a month. Probably. I'm wary of giving the players too many people to micromanage.
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Looks great, can't wait to play. :)
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Another screeny. Nothing much different here. In fact, there's probably no real reason we need humans and monsters on separate tabs.
Anyway, FWIW
(http://content.imagesocket.com/images/screeny2ff8.jpg)
Next trick, now that I know what I want, is figuring out how to generate it all programatically...
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Poor Gobbo going against Jill Valentine. You can do it little Gobbo!
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Hi Doc, just a quick sidenote
I might suggest speedier gameplay, since once a week could be too slow for some, and not enough time for others. I dont know if you ever tried playing Laser Squad Nemesis, but Id recommend taking a look at their setup (its a free game to test). You can find it here:
http://www.lasersquadnemesis.com/
Dont get too sucked in, Im warning you right now - its a brilliant game.
Anyways - you sign up for a random match, and then you hand in your turn when an opponent have been found. As soon as he hands in his turn, you both get another go. And so on, and so on. So you could potentially get a move every 10-20 minutes (if your fast), or once every 30 days - but you could start a good number of games.
Becomes more cumbersome, and slow, with more than 1 opponent - but maybe a global ranking system could give you some "perk points" or something even though you are replaying the same game. Something to consider.
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I might suggest speedier gameplay, since once a week could be too slow for some, and not enough time for others. I dont know if you ever tried playing Laser Squad Nemesis, but Id recommend taking a look at their setup (its a free game to test). You can find it here:
It's a possibility. I'm hoping for 10 to 20 players, though, so 15 minute turnarounds probably aren't going to happen. Still, like I said earlier, nothing's set in stone just yet.
Dont get too sucked in, Im warning you right now - its a brilliant game.
I'm not very good at not getting sucked in to these things.
/me clicks link with trepidation...
On a different subject, I've been fiddling with the XML formats. From a coding perspective, it's simpler if I organise the data by actor first, and then by week. It's not quite so intuitive, but that's why there's an editor app.
For anyone interested, here's a sample. (Still working on generatign those panels in the interface code).
<combatant name = "zadoc"
combatant_id = "2"
>
<teach week = "1"
partner = "gobbo"
partner_id = "3"
subject = "light"
/>
<teach week = "2"
partner = "cammy"
partner_id = "2"
subject = "magic"
/>
<spectate
week = "3"
partner = "cammy"
/>
<carouse
week = "4"
where = "sleaze street east"
/>
</combatant>
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It's looking really great. Gabbo has 100 in looks? That's what a sexy goblin looks like? No wonder they have to rape our women. I shudder to think what their women look like.
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It's looking really great. Gabbo has 100 in looks? That's what a sexy goblin looks like? No wonder they have to rape our women. I shudder to think what their women look like.
There are female goblins??? ???
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I'd assume there'd have to be, unless there's some kind of horribly ugly goblin-stork. (Vulture, maybe?)
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Stats in the screenies are at 100 so I can see that I've left enough space :)
I'm busy re-writing the client code to run from data structures, rather than the hard-codes I used to get the screenies up. After a shaky start, it's coming on quite well. I've also started a wave to track the technical details. So odd musings on coding algorithms, XML sippets and lumps of source code will be posted there. Screenshots and gamplay musings will appear in this thread.
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Subject of which, this is the rewrite of the summary screen. Nothing much has changed (which is good) except that there are more girls.
(http://content.imagesocket.com/images/screeny645.jpg)
That's running on Linux, although it looks just the same on windows. Same exe file runs on both. Will probably run on OS/X too, if anyone's interested. Mono has its moments.
The reason I added the extra girls was to test and see if the girls tab scrolled correctly.
(http://content.imagesocket.com/images/screeny2721.jpg)
As you can see, it does. Still need to add in some labels on this one. Still, things are moving forwards.
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I've never seen such a sad power girl before... I can't imagine what they did to her to get her as a slave... must of been some crazy shit to make a woman that powerful so sad. :(
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I've never seen such a sad power girl before... I can't imagine what they did to her to get her as a slave... must of been some crazy shit to make a woman that powerful so sad. :(
:D I took the thumbnail from the "too big" picture in FStop's girlpack. It was the only image that seemed to give a decent view of her face. Although, given the heroine in question, I could have probably just thumbnailed her cleavage and no one would have complained :)
Still working on that girl tab. I think I'm about ready to do the XML now...
(http://content.imagesocket.com/images/screeny432.jpg)
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Time to have a bit of a chunter about some game mechanics, I think. In no particular order:
First of all, Prestige is one of the key stats in the game. The higher pretige you have, the more slaves the arena will let you house and train. High prestige means you can let one slave recover, while fielding another, for instance. On the other hand, too low a prestige means that you may have to fight personally to satisfy your obligations to the league- which could mean death or slavery for your character, and you starting over with a new character sheet. There are also some opportunities that only occur above certain levles of prestige.
You get prestige by winning fights, through social activities, and by owning prestigious fighters. You don't gain any prestige from broodmares, but since they are still technically the property of the trainer from whom you won them, you can reduce their prestige through public humiliation, which in turn lowers the prestige of their owner.
There are three catagories of combat: Heavy, Light and Magic. Heavy means heavy armour: slow but well defended. Light is little or no armor - quick and agile. Magic is unarmored and relying on magic. I'm going to say that these run on a scissors-paper-stone basis, so heavy gets bonuses against light (because there's only so much you can do to plate armour with your bare hands), light gets bonuses against magic (because they're fast enough to dodge spells and disrupt casting) and magic has bonuses against heavy (wearing metal armour can be a positive liability when your opponent can turn it red hot).
Combatants will have a skill level in each of these, and the player can choose which style to employ for any given match. Fight schedules are posted ahead of time, so if you can guess which slave your opponent will field, and using which style, then you can gain an advantage.
Other stats: Flair is a measure of a combatat's showmanship. A slave with high flair is more likely to please the crowd, which can result in them being given a "thumbs up" by the crowd after losing a bout. It also improves the chance that a slave will gain prestige from a match.
Sexual is a measure of the slaves skill at sex, and is useful both to avoid pregnancy in the arena, and outside of it, to please others in bed.
Looks are about the same as in WM. Have an effect on prestige. I'm considering stipulating that all girls in the league are automatically considered knockouts, and using the space for something else. Like motivation, maybe...
OK. That'll do for now. More on the subject later.
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Loks awesome going to be really fun to try it out keep up the good work.
PS when u think u have a beta realse?
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Wow this is moving along pretty quickly. Keep up the good work! It's looking great.
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Wow this is moving along pretty quickly. Keep up the good work! It's looking great.
Well, it's keeping a steady pace, anyway. I've got screens for broodmares and a personal data screem which still needs a bit of work. And I'm also just chasing the last bugs out of the XML import code. Which means that the client app is close to being able to submit a set of orders, albeit without the set of commands.
That said, there's not a lot of point without the server to process the data, so we're not there yet.
In other news, I just got my hands on a shiny new Android mobile phone. I wonder how hard it would be to make a mobile version. With a bit of luck I can use Boojay to compile the code directly into java bytecode. Could be fun :)
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Just to let people know that I'm still working away on this, promises to devote some time to WM notwithstanding. Not that there's been a lot to see, since most of the work has gone into the server end.
Anyway, I've been thinking about city wards, and also about character creation.
City Wards:
I want each ward to have two friendly wards and two rivals. This is one possibility; red lines are rivalries and green likes are alliances.
(http://content.imagesocket.com/images/wards15e0.png)
That's got Nobb Hill condescenting to talk to the wizards and the money men, which seems fair enough. Spark end and Pentangle Square are at odds, which is good. The only reservation I have is that the Sleaze Street districts are friends, and I rather imagined that as a particularly bitter rivalry
The other option I considered was this:
(http://content.imagesocket.com/thumbs/wards25a5.png)
Which has Spark End picking a fight with the Quality for some reason. Pentangle Sq. and Pinchpenny Lane are each keeping links with the more violent elements in town, which also seems fair enough. I'd have expected closer ties between the docks and Pinchpenny Lane, and I have no idea what Spark End did to upsed Nobb Hill, but overall I like this one better.
mmm... more later, I think
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Hey Doc,
What about swithching the following in V2:
Sleaze West <==> Pentangle Square
Nobb Hill <==> Quays
Could be odd that you don't have the Magic vs Tech rivalry. I could see the nobles taking a liking to both philosophies.
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Hey Doc,
What about swithching the following in V2:
Sleaze West <==> Pentangle Square
Nobb Hill <==> Quays
Could be odd that you don't have the Magic vs Tech rivalry. I could see the nobles taking a liking to both philosophies.
So that would look (after rotating Nobb Hill back to the top once again) like this
(http://content.imagesocket.com/images/wards3854.png)
So the nobles are at odds with the trade sectors. Old money vs new, I can cope with that. Pentangle Square has a rivalry with Sleaze East; Brains vs Brawn, so that's OK. Also with Pinchpenny Lane... I suppose they're two of the most influential power blocks in the city, so a bit of sporting rivalry is to be expected.
Spark End has a similar disagreement with the other Sleaze Street ward on the same basis, and also with the pirates independant sea captains of Crosskeys. Not sure where that last one came from, but I can't see any reason why not.
The Sleaze Street gangs hate one another as usual, so that's good. It's just a pity about the magic vs science rivalry. Still, I like this a lot.
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True, it is a pity there is no outright rivalry between Magic/Tech. But how about looking at it from this angle. Both the Wizards and the Inventors are trying to curry favor with the Nobles, selling their wares. Sure they dislike each other, but they are not about to risk their standing with the Nobles over All-Out war. So they do the next best thing. They arm the Sleaze Wards. They fight through the East vs West Rivalry. The Nobles can't be bothered by what the riff-raff do. This allows the Wizards/Inventors to settle their score in a more subtle way without exposing themselves directly.
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True, it is a pity there is no outright rivalry between Magic/Tech. But how about looking at it from this angle. Both the Wizards and the Inventors are trying to curry favor with the Nobles, selling their wares. Sure they dislike each other, but they are not about to risk their standing with the Nobles over All-Out war. So they do the next best thing. They arm the Sleaze Wards. They fight through the East vs West Rivalry. The Nobles can't be bothered by what the riff-raff do. This allows the Wizards/Inventors to settle their score in a more subtle way without exposing themselves directly.
Workable. I think I'll probably go with this, unless anyone has any better suggestions :)
I was talking about character design: here's a rough screen.
(http://content.imagesocket.com/images/screenybfb.png)
The plan is to give every player a number of points to spend customising his character, with cost-per-point going up as values rise. About the only thing I'm not going to let players choose is their ward, and that only so I can keep the wards roughly balanced.
The email password field is going to be optional. The idea is that if you use a gmail address, the software can auto-mail your orders for you.
All of those fields are going to have tool-tip help attached to them.
(That's all a bit random, but I want to get some of this written down).
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No choosing our Ward huh? That makes me sad. I was looking forward to proving the dominance of Spark's End. Understand the design decision though.
As for the Wards rivalries, to me this (http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/6372/wardsmeh.png) (http://img809.imageshack.us/i/wardsmeh.png/)
makes more sense. But then, that's just my feelings on the matter.
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No choosing our Ward huh? That makes me sad. I was looking forward to proving the dominance of Spark's End. Understand the design decision though.
Indeed. What we don't want is everyone piling up in Spark End and Pentangle Square and no-one representing the docklands.
What might work would be to let players choose a preference from the available wards, and then choose randomly among the candidates. It wouldn't garuantee your choice of ward, but it would give you some control over the outcome. If you didn't get it, you'd get a random allocation from what was left at the end
Another possibility woud be to let players bid with build points. So if you were prepared to spend a point or two less on starting stats and the like, then you'd automatically get your choice of ward. Assuming no one outbid you, of course.
I'd also quite like to allow players to change wards in-game when opportunity arises. But not easily, and not for some time
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Alternately, you could just make certain wards unavailable when they reach a certain unbalanced threshold, still allowing the player to choose from other wards which have fewer players in them.
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That too. But there's still a problem if we have three new players/characters and three available wards, for instance. If they all pick Pinchpenny Lane (for instance) then things still end up out of balance.
I suppose I could award them on a first-come-first-served basis
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Well is there any difference between picking the wards? Because if not, I'd just do them how you originally planned. If being able to choose can hinder gameplay then forced wards is probably the way to go.
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Well is there any difference between picking the wards? Because if not, I'd just do them how you originally planned. If being able to choose can hinder gameplay then forced wards is probably the way to go.
Good point. I was thinking "differences". I haven't got them all worked out yet, but roughly speaking:
Nobb Hill has snob value, so if you work for them you get a bonus to prestige. Pinchpenny Lane gets you some nice discounts on equipment. Surprisingly it's not the one that pays best - that distinction goes to the Sleaze Street wards, whose teams are by far the best supported in the city. Pentagle Square will give its trainers first refusal when selling demon girls; spark end gets some rare items and unusual combatant from time to time. Crosskeys offers some discounts, and also has the occasional beautify light combat specialist to sell...
I'm not sure how balanced these are going to be - this is going to need a shakedown run to get some of these details sorted out.
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Something else to consider if you were to go with choice of ward based on the number of players in that ward is player activity, a player who hasn't played in about a few months should probably not be counted.
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Yeah. I was thinking of some sort of progressive penalty for missing turns. Something like:
- first turn - loss of prestige
- second consecutive turn - prestige loss and fined by the arena
- third turn - trainer is suspended until he settles his fine.
Suspended trainers may be allocated a new ward when they return to the game.
I should also add that ths would be for unplanned absences. If you're not going to be able to play for a few turns, it should be possible to arrange for a leave of absence without penalty
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With a bit of luck, I may shortly have a character creation screen for people to play with. The game still isn't ready, but I'd like some feedback on the design process.
While I'm on, let's talk about the format for the image sets that I'm going to use. Rather than the WM approach of having one set of images per girl, I thought we'd decouple image sets from the characters. So you design your character and pick an imageset for him/her/whatever. I'm probably going to need some help with these, so best get the format established now.
The directory structure for imagesets is a bit deep:
(http://content.imagesocket.com/images/imageset_format009.png)
I've only show the structure along the top branch, else the pic would be huge, but each branch has the same structure. So "others" and "slaves" can have male/female/futa/monster folders underneath them
I'm allowing futa as a gender. It's not a kink that does anything for me, but I know a lot of people like them. I've also included "monster" as a gender (which it strictly isn't) to cover shapeshifters and tentacle beasts. Players are goign to be able to choose these as geners for their character, but there's going to be a points cost. Not because there's any advantage choosing them, but just to discourage people from takign the option. I don't want everyone in the league to be a futinari or an intelligent tentacle beast
What else? Male slaves are allowed, although the league considers them to be monsters for all practical purposes. I'm not sure what to do about the "rape" category for males though. Male rape is a major turn-off for me, so that's not going to be part of the game. We could use it for when the gladiator in question gets the better of his female opponent, but in that case, I'm sure most people would sooner see the female pic. The easiest thing is to say that male rape pics will be ignored. Much the same goes for monster gender
The only other thing about imagesets is this: please keep them small. If an imageset gets used in the game, it's going to end up being replicated to the HD of everyone in the game, and some players may not have 10GB to spare to hold all those pixels. So one or two pics per category if we can. Preferably scaled to size, but I'll have to get back to you on what the size is...
Anyway, that's enough for now
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OK folks, have a play with this:
http://www.mediafire.com/?z793e2anb5gx21p (http://www.mediafire.com/?z793e2anb5gx21p)
You need to click the "add trainer" button to get to the design screen. It's still a bit rough, and undoubtedly buggy, but I'd appreciate some feedback.
I should also add that this is not the game - just a demo of the character creation screen.
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If nothing else, I'm interested to see that all the needed DLLs are included. Which reminds me: .NET 2.0 or later needed.
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There is some strange errors about database but i took screen shots and saved the cgl log they are in the zips attached to the post. i can run the game and countinue after closing the error windows. so i think you got all the .dll files. im running windows 7 64x if it makes any difference.
hade to make two zips 256KB limit.
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OK, thanks for that. the database ought to auto-create itself if missing. So unless it can't create the file...
Just out of curiosity, what version of windows are you running?
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Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit.
The error are comming everytime i start it. Even tried running the cgl.exe with admin mode and UAC off.
Even tried the db.exe for fun but got the same errors and than nothing started.
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Yeah, db.exe was a test program from early on.
So it's not likely to be because you don't have rights to write to the file... how about if you delete gcl.db and start it up again? That should create a new database instance.
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There is no file with that name.
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You're right. And the program should create that file if it doesn't exist.
try adding this into the game folder, and see what happens
http://www.mediafire.com/?l8p8133ltt8cpzy
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Didn't work still getting the errors.
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Just tried it on my brothers computer with windows XP and it's working and not getting the errors.
So i tried running it with Compatibility mode(XP) on my own again and its not working.
I turned off my antivirus programs and still not working.
Even tried installing the .net 2 for fun but the setup told me that it was already included in my windows.
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Hum... No idea what's happening there.
That said, the plan is to keep the client side data in XML files rather than using sqlite. so maybe that's the thing to do next. I'll take a shot at that tomorrow.
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I tried running it in XP and had no problems at all with it. Everything seems to work as far as I can tell. I am not sure what the problem is in win 7 but you should just do what I do. Blame it on Microsoft. :D All kidding aside all I know is that it works fine in win XP.
The Windsong Bard
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It must be an incompatibility with the 64bit versions. It runs fine in my Windows Vista Home Basic 32 bit.
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Good point - I think there are different dlls for sqlite3 for 32 and 64 bit versions.
In any case, the simplest fix will be to get the client code working properly and saving to XML, which should side step the problem for now.
If anyone subsequently wants to use the server code to run their own slave arena game, well, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it :)
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I am running win xp 32 bit and it runs just fine so it sounds like you are on to something about 64 bit windows being a problem.
The Windsong Bard
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I can confirm the same issues with my 64bit Windows 7.
It runs but all kinds of SQL.Lite errors show up, and I don't know if it's related or not but the time part of the screen is all out of whack.
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For some reason character creation screens always makes me puzzle over mechanics more than normal. So now I have questions based on mechanics. I'll go ahead and do the whole number each one thing since I typing these up as they come to mind, and I'd expect to have a fair number.
1) Are there any stats that can't be increased during the course of the game? I like the idea of the trainer increasing their stats during the game, but I also think that having their stats set at character creation would make each player more unique, character creation more important, and helps to keep the game focus on the girls themselves.
2) Should I assume that your score in a stat affects how well you can train others in it?
3) Flair says it helps to "make a splash at a social gathering". So, I have to wonder what exactly happens when you have a low social skill and high flair. High social skill and low flair?
4) Everything but health(which maxes at 100) and prestige(costs ten per point) has a scaling cost, with gold ramping up the quickest. Limiting starting gold is obvious, but this has made me wonder how much of an effect prestige really has. I had originally assumed it would mainly be for letting you buy better, but more expensive slaves, and also give access to better, and more expensive, items to purchase. Is there more to it, or is the cost based on the fact that, while not immediately game breaking, the time normally required for increasing your prestige is significant enough on it's own to make bypassing it that much of a game changer?
5) From earlier stats screens, slaves have prestige as well. I think I remember you saying having a slave with high prestige increases yours as well, but are there other benefits to that? Can they get invited to parties as well, ect ect?
6) Health says stamina for other activities. The implication seems to be sexual stamina, but is health required for doing other things, like the way Otherworld uses the health stat?
7) You said you wanted monster to cost points because you don't want hordes of tentacle monsters, but did you apply a cost to futa because of the same sort of reason, or is there benefit in being futa? Like being able to both impregnate and get pregnant?
And that's it for now. I'm curious how exactly the rps is going to work, but I don't think you have that figured out quite yet either.
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For some reason character creation screens always makes me puzzle over mechanics more than normal. So now I have questions based on mechanics.
Excellent! I was hoping for some discussion along these lines :)
1) Are there any stats that can't be increased during the course of the game? I like the idea of the trainer increasing their stats during the game, but I also think that having their stats set at character creation would make each player more unique, character creation more important, and helps to keep the game focus on the girls themselves.
As it stands. I'm planning to allow all stats to increase with experience. That said, the best way to increase stats is going to be to fight in arena, and I'm expecting that most player characters will ne reluctant to do that, since the consequences can be dire.
I don't think we need to worry about the girls not getting enough attention, though :)
2) Should I assume that your score in a stat affects how well you can train others in it?
Yes.
3) Flair says it helps to "make a splash at a social gathering". So, I have to wonder what exactly happens when you have a low social skill and high flair. High social skill and low flair?
High flair and low social skill means you're the guy in the loud plaid jacket and wearing too much aftershave who spends the entire party lecturing anyone he can corner on the subject of tropical fish. You can't ignore him, but no one really wants to talk to him...
High social and low flair is the quiet chap sat in the corner who you have a perfectly pleasant conversation, but you'd never have thought to speak to him if you hadn't been introduced.
Strictly speaking, flair is going to be most useful in the arena. A lot of flair means you can put on a show for the audience, which in turn can help if your life ever depends on getting the thumbs up from the crowd. But there are some social situations where a high flair will be helpful.
4) Everything but health(which maxes at 100) and prestige(costs ten per point) has a scaling cost, with gold ramping up the quickest. Limiting starting gold is obvious, but this has made me wonder how much of an effect prestige really has. I had originally assumed it would mainly be for letting you buy better, but more expensive slaves, and also give access to better, and more expensive, items to purchase. Is there more to it, or is the cost based on the fact that, while not immediately game breaking, the time normally required for increasing your prestige is significant enough on it's own to make bypassing it that much of a game changer?
Well, prestige affects how many slaves the arena will let you stable at any given time. Basically divide prestige by three and round up. Prestige 4 means you can keep one slavegirl and one monster, which is about the minimum, as you need to field one one each each turn or suffer penalties. So of you drop below pretige of 4 then you're going to end up entering the arena personally to satisfy your obligations.
On the other hand, if you have prestige of 10, then you can keep two of each, and can rest one slave while the other one fights.
There are other advantages too, but that's the main one.
5) From earlier stats screens, slaves have prestige as well. I think I remember you saying having a slave with high prestige increases yours as well, but are there other benefits to that? Can they get invited to parties as well, ect ect?
Well, slaves can't get invited to parties. You might get an invite that depends on you bringing Flossy-Anne along though ... and further strings may be attached. It's also possible that a party holder migth ask to borrow or rent one of your slaves for the occasion.
6) Health says stamina for other activities. The implication seems to be sexual stamina, but is health required for doing other things, like the way Otherworld uses the health stat?
Basically, it's hit points. The link to sexual performance is that if you've just been cut to ribbons in the arena, you're going to be more worried about not pulling your stitches out than you are about showing your partner a good time. I hadn't any plans for diseases resulting from low health, but it's a thing to consider, I suppose.
7) You said you wanted monster to cost points because you don't want hordes of tentacle monsters, but did you apply a cost to futa because of the same sort of reason, or is there benefit in being futa? Like being able to both impregnate and get pregnant?
No, it's just to discourage people taking the option. It would be useful for female trainers who have to fight in place of a monster, and end up having to do the rape thing, but I think the arena mages have that eventuality covered in any case.
And that's it for now. I'm curious how exactly the rps is going to work, but I don't think you have that figured out quite yet either.
Not all of it, it's true :) I'm basing most of it on memories of a postal En Garde campaign I played in some ten years ago. But my memories are a biy vague, and it's not helped that I can't find my rulebook. (I have two of the damn things, an original GWD edition, and the pevans/small furries one - can't find either). In any event, it's not a perfect fit, since EG has clubs, regiments and mistresses for the social interaction to hinge on; here we only have city wards and slavegirls (who don't really fit the mistress role very well in any case).
So yeah, I'm going to have to make up a chunk of it as I go along :)
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Well, prestige affects how many slaves the arena will let you stable at any given time. Basically divide prestige by three and round up. Prestige 4 means you can keep one slavegirl and one monster, which is about the minimum, as you need to field one one each each turn or suffer penalties. So of you drop below pretige of 4 then you're going to end up entering the arena personally to satisfy your obligations.
On the other hand, if you have prestige of 10, then you can keep two of each, and can rest one slave while the other one fights.
Wait, divide by three and round up? That sounds like the minimum would be two then, and you'd get two at five, or am I missing something? Also, is it strictly one of each per bit, or at, say twenty(assuming I'm not missing something and that would equal seven of each) could you have two slavegirls and twelve monsters?
And new question, how exactly do you earn money in the arena? Is there a purse you fight for that's preset, plus maybe a tip based on flair/performance? Or is it more adhoc? And to throw out a suggestion for this, I think it'd be good to reward more for close matches. I think it would help make risks more tempting, and would get the people who have been playing for longer to keep a few more poorly trained slaves around to fight new players for more cash.
Crap, there were like five other things I wanted to ask, but I can't remember them. Wait, no. Equipment. Yes, have a couple regarding that. The descriptions for the different fighting stats/styles says light covers unarmed combat. Does this mean heavy requires you to have equipment, or is that just a fluff thing? Also, will equipment just add a plus to your stat, or will it's effects be more like "Bow: Able to attack x amount of times before start of match", "Dagger: X chance to attack twice", "Axe: Do x more damage per attack", "Shield: X chance to not take damage", ect ect...?
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Wait, divide by three and round up? That sounds like the minimum would be two then, and you'd get two at five, or am I missing something? Also, is it strictly one of each per bit, or at, say twenty(assuming I'm not missing something and that would equal seven of each) could you have two slavegirls and twelve monsters?
The minimum is zero with zero prestige. 1/3 = 0.333 which rounds up to one. So it works out like this:
<=0 0
1-3 1
4-6 2
7-9 3
10-12 4
and so on.
Also, it's in total, not each. So with prestige 4 you can keep 1 girl and one monster, or two girls and no monsters. Or two monsters and no girls if you like. At prestige 1-3 you get to keep a girl OR a monster, so that when players end up having to fight.
And new question, how exactly do you earn money in the arena? Is there a purse you fight for that's preset, plus maybe a tip based on flair/performance?
More or less. You get a purse, plus a thin slice of the gate. Fighters with high prestige and flair draw bigger crowds, so there is a bonus in that regard
I think it'd be good to reward more for close matches. I think it would help make risks more tempting, and would get the people who have been playing for longer to keep a few more poorly trained slaves around to fight new players for more cash.
It's a good idea. I think serious mismatches can backfire, if the crowd starts to side with the underdog. I need to think a bit more about that..
Equipment. Yes, have a couple regarding that. The descriptions for the different fighting stats/styles says light covers unarmed combat. Does this mean heavy requires you to have equipment, or is that just a fluff thing?
You're assumed to have access to basic equipment. It will be possible to buy better kit.
Also, will equipment just add a plus to your stat, or will it's effects be more like "Bow: Able to attack x amount of times before start of match", "Dagger: X chance to attack twice", "Axe: Do x more damage per attack", "Shield: X chance to not take damage", ect ect...?
To begin with it'll just be an add to the stat. Once that's working, there'll be time to look at spec
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Ah, I see what I misunderstood. Round up for all values, duh. For some reason I was thinking only at .5+*klonk* Oh, and does having the fans on your side help in anyway with the fight? I could see the Sleaze fans taking a few cues from Bloodbowl fans. Or Eagles fans.
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Oh, and does having the fans on your side help in anyway with the fight? I could see the Sleaze fans taking a few cues from Bloodbowl fans. Or Eagles fans.
Well, I'm thinking of the classic scene in just about every gladiator film where the fallen fighter's life hangs on wether the crowd gives them a thumbs up or thumbs down. I'm not quite clear yet how that's going to manifest in terms of game mechanics, however.
I have to confess, I'm not sure how Bloodbowl/Eagles fans behave. Are we talking spectator violence and supporter hooliganism? I can imagine sleaze street in particular going for that, but I'm nto sure what effect, if any, it should have on the players.
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You've never played Blood Bowl? Poor guy. If you didn't know, Blood Bowl is basically football set in the Warhammer universe. Fans invading the field and injuring/killing players is a mechanic of the game. And The Eagles' fans have sort of a reputation. They've have been known to throw snowballs filled with things at the opposing teams coach/players and at one point they actually had a courtroom in their stadium.
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You've never played Blood Bowl? Poor guy.
Seen it, just never played it. I was a bit pissed off at Games Workshop when it first came out, and it kind of passed me by.
I think we'll stipulate some sort of magical barrier to keep crowd-invading-the-pitch moments from happening. Or at least from happening without one of the players putting some effort into making it happen, anyway :)
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mmm, I have an idea. Let the players that doesnt participate in the fight become spectators and be able to bet to the figthers. With a bet system that has a bet ratio based on the diference of abilities between the fighters, and have the winner of the fight win a prize money equal to a % of the moey the players who bet on them won with the bet.
I'm not sure if my idea could be expanded to the NPC spectators since they should easily outnumber the number of player spectators.
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mmm, I have an idea. Let the players that doesnt participate in the fight become spectators and be able to bet to the figthers.
I was planning to let players watch the fights (and pick up tips for their own training) and place bets. So that's covered.
It's odd - I misread your post the first time and thought you were suggesting having players in non-arena roles. Which would work quite well for some purposes, since it creates other power structures for the players to make use of, as well as a common goal - to gain (or retain) one of a limited number of "trainer" positions.
Hmmm...
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Letting other players interfere in matches... sounds kind of like WWE wrestling!
"Hes going for the pin! Wait, whos this running down the ramp? OH MY GAWD ITS THE TENTACLE MONSTER"
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Personally if player's can interfere in the match one way to do it, and I am kind of stealing this from Blood Bowl here, would be to have like secret weapons and dirty tricks such as using poison or illegal weapons that can be purchased for the match. Although if this were added there should be a gold cost as well as at least the potential for a loss of prestige depending on how bad the interference is just to keep it balanced.
The Windsong Bard
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I quite like the idea of some intrigue around the contests, but I think I'll get the basics working first.
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I have tried to create a trainer (files the link on page 3+ the cgl.db file)
- I have not found a button for validation (not implemented ?)
- If during trainer creation you click on "add trainer" again, you get 50 more creation points, (just click on > button on a stat to make them appear)
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It still needs a save/submit button adding. Not implemented yet, you're quite right.
The add trainer issue is definitely a bug, however.
Thaks for the report :)
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ame show a lot of promise, but I do have some questions you may want to think about. How is long term game balance being handled? I can see a scenario where the rich get richer while the poor keep losing. How will a new player compete against a vet with a year’s worth of experience and leveling? No one likes constant beat downs. Also, how big is the rock-paper-scissors affect? Will characters need a big skill advantage to overcome a weakness? Or is it more like a tiebreaker between opponents of comparable skill?
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How is long term game balance being handled? I can see a scenario where the rich get richer while the poor keep losing.
Good question. I've thought about that, and to be honest, I'm not sure. I was hoping to defer that decision until I had seen a few turns in play anf got a better feel for the dynamics of the game.
Also, how big is the rock-paper-scissors affect? Will characters need a big skill advantage to overcome a weakness? Or is it more like a tiebreaker between opponents of comparable skill?
I was thinking in the order of 30-50% Smaller than that and the smart thing would be to train one skill very high and not worry about your opponent's style. I want players to have to think about the possible options.
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Good question. I've thought about that, and to be honest, I'm not sure. I was hoping to defer that decision until I had seen a few turns in play anf got a better feel for the dynamics of the game.
Well, it could work to tier it with a ranking and subleagues.
The subleagues could easily be done similarly to the arena brackets in Halo: Reach. The better you are, the better bracket you end up in.
Then you add bonus' and penalties based on the ranking differences for cross league matches. If you're going after a far weaker target, you might be bound to barely keep even by showing off if not losing reputation and even money to cover things. Their reputation might go up even if they lose and get a far larger reward if they manage to pull off an underdog win.
One option for dealing with the penalties is that at the beginning of the fight the underdog gains points based on the difference that they can distribute that are concessions for them being essentially a training dummy for a far better off and trained opponent.
Things like straight xp bonus' to something like not losing slaves due to pregnancy, or a larger share in the profits. Each could have a point value that the underdog can choose and the higher ranking on can make one veto (which refunds the points but blocks that option and allows the underdog to reselect unless they can ante up the choice with say a 50% increase to the points to keep it).
Of course, the concessions are just one way so as to prevent people from risking it as there is still that chance the randomness of the fight would have them lose...
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oooh, this looks like it will be an interesting thing to play.
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I'm so joining this. ^_^
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Very intrested in playing this :)
I do have some worries about how you plan to keep the sides fair and the game ticking over (with player quitting during a fight for example).
I'm also running Windows 7 64, and the char maker went bonkers when i ran it, i keep clicking the junk away and got it started but i do hope you are working on a version i can play. :( Please
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This is going to be handled exclusively through e-mail, right? I've been thinking a bit about how players would get matched up. Do your monster and girl form a team to take on the other moster and girl, or does your monster and girl have their own seperate matches? Requiring a player to field one of each makes sense in that if you didn't there might be an odd number of pairings (too many monsters, not enough girls).
You could have the central program make all of the pairings according to relative scores. Either basing them on overall value (logical), or on win record + flare modifier. I think a method that takes both into account would be best. Create leagues that are based on a certain minimum number of wins and have a reqiured overall value for your team or they get bumped down a league until they make the value requirement too.
What could drastically simplify this would be if the players could pick their own matches. Based on some kind of ranking system starting from the top player down each player can choose the next round's opponent. If you get chosen before you pick someone your locked into the battle so you don't get a choice. I'd say start 3 days before the actual match and unlock each player in order with a certain amount of time between each unlock. Like say 1 hour per person so a full day after the first unlock you've probably got your entire leauge unlocked. If for some reason you want leauges bigger than 48 people have them unlock faster, like 1 every 30 min or even 1 every 15 min.
I think that might take some kind of accessable website, or maybe it could be handled through e-mail still. If it had real time updating then your talking about a large volume of e-mail. I'd suggest at that point you require all players to make a dedicated g-mail account so they are consistant and have the client auto-save and auto-delete game related e-mail.
Also I'm not sure how much info your going to give players about the other players. Having no info posted on how the other girls and monsters are doing would leave way too much to chance. Giving all the info would basically allow people to predict with way too much accuracy the outcome of fights. I'd suggest 2 systems for gathering info. First an official bio that the league itself posts. Gives the player name, and a short bio on each gladiator owned by the player. Win record, match record, weapon used in the last fight, and maybe some kind of title based ranking system so you know generally how powerful each gladiator is considered.
Then have a secondary system where you have to actually do something. Either you can spend some of your time spying on a single other player to gather info on them, attend social events where you can gather info on every gladiator attending, bribe trainers and coaches for info, or hire actual spies to watch other players and their gladiators. Maybe a rumor system where you get info for hanging out in bars?
I'm not sure if players should be able to pick their teams before or after seeing who they are going to be matched up against. I think after might be more exciting, as it adds more risk in the actual pairings. Also an experienced player could throw a match by sending in their newly aquired gladiators instead of their top ranking team.
Some kind of handicap system needs to be in place. Like if the match is very unballanced the winner doesn't gain any experience from the fight and the loosing team gains double. Having the higher rank team get punished probably isn't desirable if the players can choose the actual teams after the pairings have been made since a high ranking team could send out low ranking gladiators to throw a match. Maybe instead of a combat match, it become a flair contest to see if the winning team can keep the crowd entertained despite this being a one sided match? If they succeed, the strong team still gains flair despite not getting any other kind of experience?
Anyways, looking forward to this.