devolution

Author Topic: Whore Master Cathexis Dev (renamed from WMII)  (Read 26017 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ryu

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 3
Re: Whore Master II (Dev)
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2012, 04:19:51 PM »
Good luck with the game. I look forward seeing some results ^^
If you would have used c# or java I could have helped a bit, but I am not really good with c++ and I don`t like to code with it.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2012, 04:23:24 PM by Ryu »

Offline dungeon.roller

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: Whore Master II (Dev)
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2012, 07:00:12 PM »

Been reading your design thread and hopped over to the development thread.


I've been thinking about a C# / WPF / XNA port of WM and reading through the source for a while.

I'm also very familiar with C#  (third person on this thread) -- I also have extensive database design & SQL experience and would be interested in working on the SQLLite DB side which has been mentioned in some other threads.  I'd really like to see this done in a language that isn't C++ and 3 of us seem to have C# experience on the thread.  How much work have you done in C++ so far?


Would you mind if I worked on a parallel ported track with C# / WPF / XNA?







Offline graodeareia

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 60
Re: Whore Master II (Dev)
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2012, 09:40:00 PM »
For now the game has no license for the source code or the graphic assets that will be there in the future. When and if I choose to license the content it will be in a very permissive license such as the BSD license for the code and Creative Commons for the content. For now you can consider that all is in the public domain. So yes you may use all design ideas and anything else you want for a port.

I haven't worked on the project for a few weeks. I had to do some traveling and since I got back I could not convince myself to go back to working on it. The last time I worked on the project I was very frustated. I was trying to do some graphics but since I'm have very little knowledge and skill in that area the work was going very slow and the result was less than ok. Once I had something I tryed to do a test to use the graphics I had in Qt. After lots of problems and lots of research I realised that it was actually not possible to do what I wanted unless I did some custom Widget code, and/or a custom Style class, and that would be very hard since I'm not an expert in C++ and my Qt knowledge is very little.

Therefore I decided that I needed to go in a diferent direction. One possibility was to use web technology. With Html/Css I could easily do anything I wanted and I don't think it would be hard to integrate that with C++ using Qt as a bridge. I have plenty of experience and knowledge in that area. But web technologies are not pretty. They work, they are quite powerfull, but they are also complex. If you compare with xaml (the language behind WPF) for instance, you can do more with less code and get a better performance then with Html/Css. As a last resort to avoid abandoning C++ I decided to look into something I had been avoding since I started to look at Qt. There is a declarative language for Qt, similar to what xaml is to C#. Its called QML. QML is a client side technology that relies on javascript for functionality and a declative language for content and layout. But its easily used in combination with C++ backend. After much investigation I decided to write the game engine in C++ and the frontend in QML. All the scripting will be done in javascript since its native to QML and tightly integrated with Qt.

I believe QML is so easy to use that modders will be able to change it directly. There will be no need to have an external xml file that is used as a guide to generate the interface. All QML files will be available for modders to change as they see fit with no compilation needed since they are interpreted. With all the javascript and QML files available to modders, I hope we will have a lot of contributers to the project, even if they have no idea of how to compile a C++ program. C++ coding will only be necessary when changes to the game engine are required. Since modding is a main concern in WM I thing this approach will be very apreciated by the community.

I would like for you and anyone else interested in contributing to the development effords to take a look at the source once I release something using the new architecture. Even all the C# and Java people will probabily appreciate the power and simplicity that QML offers.

As for a database I'm not sure yet. For the modding comunity XML is probabily easier to use. The no need to understand relational databases or the SQL language. From a architecture and performance point of view, a database would offer more. One way to mitigate that is to offer simple interfaces that modders can use to change the database, like adding or removing items and traits. But that would mean that more work would need to be done. For now I haven't decided which way to go. Database requires more work and gives better performance and achitecture. XML requires less work and is readily available for modders. I'll will have to think more about that in order to decide. Anyone is invited to come in this discution.

If you decide that QML/javascript is still not interesting for you and start a port in C# I have a couple advises. I think WPF is better tool for the job than XNA. XNA is good when you have lots of animations and sprites, maybe some physics, collision detection and so on, or if you need some 3D graphics. WM does not need any of that. All you need is buttons, text boxes, tables and othe basic interface elements. WPF has all that and offers powerfull styling for a custom look and feel. As for the database, you might consider SQL Server compact instead of SQLite. Sqlite would be good if I also use it. We could share the database between the two projects. But SQL Server compact should be easier to use in an Microsoft enviroment. Therefore you could help me decided the database vs xml question before you choose a database. After all, we could also share the XMLs between projects if we choose to do that instead of a DB.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2012, 09:42:31 PM by graodeareia »

Offline dungeon.roller

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: Whore Master II (Dev)
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2012, 02:02:29 PM »
Thx for reply. I spent some time this weekend looking into XNA vs WPF and decided to go WPF.  I started with girl templates for random and unique girls and the girk file XML loaders which are mostly done. I also went through some picture viewer tutorials to familiarize myself with the image controls and fundamentals for image caching, thumbnails etc and ended up creating a girls image browser, which I thought might be pretty useful for the WMEditor.  Today I'll be working on generating random girls from girl templates, a girls browser page and a girl detail page.  Still just working through the fundamentals of the design in WPF, but it's pretty promising. I also spent significant time last week reading up on C++ which I haven't touched in years so that I could read all the original code and have reviewed all of the main classes.  I'm really thinking that the interface stuff that WPF provides is going to be significant for saving dev time. Additionally resource bindings and at load overrides could make it pretty easy for UI modders.

Offline kenoichi

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Re: Whore Master II (Dev)
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2012, 06:28:25 PM »
so is this working out or is dead already ?!...

Offline Aika

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 138
Re: Whore Master II (Dev)
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2012, 11:45:11 AM »
Given that the person working on it hasn't been seen in over 2 months (and this has been noted in the other topic as well), this is probably dead.

Offline Xela

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6893
  • "It's like hunting cows"
Re: Whore Master II (Dev)
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2012, 11:54:13 AM »
Even if this isn't dead... it will take several month to build anything like WM, especially in C++ or C#... I wish I could help but I doubt I remember how to write Hello World! program on C++ :)
Like what we're doing?

Offline kenoichi

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Re: Whore Master II (Dev)
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2012, 12:02:20 PM »
too bad... i hoped people were still working on it
i'm willing to help too... though i'm a c# guy too...

Offline Xela

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6893
  • "It's like hunting cows"
Re: Whore Master II (Dev)
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2012, 12:13:28 PM »
Well, our Python based project is coming along nicely, girls are pretty much 100% done already, work has been covered (many tweaks are still needed), their stats and traits are also complete, main character is also done... still to do are gangs, quests and battle engine, then a long and tiresome work of writing texts for events, quests and main game quest which can take a long time.

I don't understand one thing, if there are people that can code in C++, why not just use the original code and improve on it? I mean like real improvements, not light mods we've seen so far? Writing that code over again, in the same PL, seems insane....
Like what we're doing?

Offline Aika

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 138
Re: Whore Master II (Dev)
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2012, 12:27:05 PM »
I'm not sure if I should feel insulted or not. True, I haven't done anything with the game engine in my mod, but first, the game engine is beyond me... second, the game engine works, and I don't think really needs any work. The only real problem I have is the script editor not being open source.

Offline Xela

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6893
  • "It's like hunting cows"
Re: Whore Master II (Dev)
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2012, 01:15:21 PM »
I'm not sure if I should feel insulted or not.

That was not aimed at you in any way or form :) That was aimed at professional developers above and rest of the crew that seems to keep trying to create a similar game... on the same PL... While there is a perfectly good open source code right in front of them...

Just seems insane cause the work load just to match everything original WM could do in C++ is HUGE.

second, the game engine works, and I don't think really needs any work.

Wasn't game engine supposed to take care of gladiator fights in the arena, have dedicated 'rooms' in brothel (each with it's own purpose) and so on? Many of the game ideas were left half way programmed... adding a couple of places to the city wouldn't hurt either, maybe setting up some quests and a goals for the game. What was finished in the engine works fine, but finishing some stuff and maybe adding new things wouldn't hurt.

The only real problem I have is the script editor not being open source.

I never gave scripts to much attention, what does editor do?
Like what we're doing?

Offline Aika

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 138
Re: Whore Master II (Dev)
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2012, 01:33:49 PM »
Wasn't game engine supposed to take care of gladiator fights in the arena, have dedicated 'rooms' in brothel (each with it's own purpose) and so on? Many of the game ideas were left half way programmed... adding a couple of places to the city wouldn't hurt either, maybe setting up some quests and a goals for the game. What was finished in the engine works fine, but finishing some stuff and maybe adding new things wouldn't hurt.

Maybe we're working off a different definition of game engine. The game engine to me means everything that makes the game work and display properly; they're the parts of the game that govern the interface, graphics rendering, file loading and saving, and etc... With the game engine established and working, it's easy to add places to the city, make changes to the game logic, and so on. In my current build of my patch, I've made changes to the code of nearly every job function, and will be making more such changes in the next stage of my development of the mod... which will start once I finally get some random girls to release with the current download. I've made modifications to what does and does not display on the main screen, and made changes to the game logic that determines how many customers the brothel gets and where they are inclined to go. One big change I'll be making is removing the ability to enslave unwilling girls (though you could still torture her into submission...) This is all not part of the game engine, not part of what makes the game tick.

I never gave scripts to much attention, what does editor do?
The scripts are saved in binary, unreadable text files. The script editor parses the files into something readable and gives tools for editing the scripts, but it's buggy and doesn't allow for new scripts with variables.

Offline Xela

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6893
  • "It's like hunting cows"
Re: Whore Master II (Dev)
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2012, 01:56:50 PM »
The scripts are saved in binary, unreadable text files. The script editor parses the files into something readable and gives tools for editing the scripts, but it's buggy and doesn't allow for new scripts with variables.

Ah, I just tried to open one of the script files and figured the same :) I never figured script files had to be that complex... scripting for our game will be done in plain text...

Maybe we're working off a different definition of game engine. The game engine to me means everything that makes the game work and display properly; they're the parts of the game that govern the interface, graphics rendering, file loading and saving, and etc... With the game engine established and working, it's easy to add places to the city, make changes to the game logic, and so on. In my current build of my patch, I've made changes to the code of nearly every job function, and will be making more such changes in the next stage of my development of the mod... which will start once I finally get some random girls to release with the current download. I've made modifications to what does and does not display on the main screen, and made changes to the game logic that determines how many customers the brothel gets and where they are inclined to go. One big change I'll be making is removing the ability to enslave unwilling girls (though you could still torture her into submission...) This is all not part of the game engine, not part of what makes the game tick.

True enough... I am not a programmer and I got into that so I could make a mod for the original WM. As I was half way through my first book on C++ (I did some coding but it was a really long time ago) some guys started a WM project on Python and after I saw a few lines of the language, I fell in love with it :)

It's an interesting experience for me to see a game made from scratch and maybe I got the engine part wrong cause we already have an engine that can display info and make screens and do some kickass manipulations with images... and saves + loads the game.

So I figured a game engine is what our programmer been coding so far: classes and functions that extract data from .ini/.xlm/.txt files, sort it and create objects with that data, giving us access, ability to mod that data, set flags and so on(that data is everything from girls, to items, npcs, hero and other ingame heroes,work, rooms etc.)... now that I think of it, your definition is prolly closer to Game Engine than mine...

Edit:
//
 
With the game engine established and working, it's easy to add places to the city, make changes to the game logic, and so on.
 

 Here is my confusion: this thread was started by some seemingly professional programmers, why is their first instinct to create a similar game in the same programming language?
 I am well aware that it is not that difficult to add an empty screen or modify functions that are responsible for game's logic and mechanics. But it IS pretty difficult to create (for example) an arena in that new window where you can have your slaves fight monsters or other girls you don't own. It is also not easy to create graphical representations of those 'logical' areas where you win businesses from other gangs or make other very obvious improvement to the game like adding Quests and NPCs.   
 Most an average coder could hope to accomplish is create a clone of WM that has a slightly different approach to how jobs affect girls's stats and how girl responds to players 'ingame' requests. Maybe a couple of scripts to improve interactions or even make a new skin for the game. Someone who feels like he is able to create game like this anew should be able to improve on WM greatly...

PS: If you could ensure that after you preform an interaction with a girl on girl_details_screen a corresponding image is displayed instead of 'profile' pic when you release your mod, it would be great. It is one of those functions that nobody should be against and clearly improves the gameplay...
« Last Edit: May 13, 2012, 03:10:31 PM by Xela »
Like what we're doing?

Offline crazy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 733
Re: Whore Master II (Dev)
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2012, 09:21:51 PM »
PS: If you could ensure that after you preform an interaction with a girl on girl_details_screen a corresponding image is displayed instead of 'profile' pic when you release your mod, it would be great. It is one of those functions that nobody should be against and clearly improves the gameplay...
Thats been done already by one of the modders.  Someone really needs to round up all the mods and combine them into one super mod.

Offline Aika

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 138
Re: Whore Master II (Dev)
« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2012, 11:49:54 PM »
I'd actually like to know how they did it. I looked through the user mods forum and couldn't find it, and haven't really had the time to try to figure it out myself.