Author Topic: <-- Archived --> (Battle Engine and Combat)  (Read 118600 times)

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Offline Xela

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Re: Battle Engine and Combat
« Reply #180 on: January 24, 2015, 01:07:54 PM »
I didn't mean this as a serious proposal, don't think it's suitable for us for many reasons, just wanted to show... I dunno now :D 

But because you asked:
That 5x5 box is relative distance between each character to determine who can attack who. It's Touhou, so air combat between flying magicians is taking place, and this is somewhat simulating 3D space. (you can be closing to one enemy and still keeping distance from others)
Not usable for us as its kinda ill-suited for interiors/dungeons obviously.

Otherwise it's very Rance-like, battle ends when action timer runs out, and it have the same more HP=more dmg formula.

It's a nice system I guess, but you can always launch those planes from backrow :)

+ We might always add moving about engine for a dungeon... we can at the very least get resources for that easy. I think on map combat will be really awesome as well.
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Offline CherryWood

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Re: Battle Engine and Combat
« Reply #181 on: January 24, 2015, 01:25:44 PM »
As I said long time before, I think our BE would be great even as it is, if we just can squeeze in at least some tactics options and improve the interface. (a few different skills that are not just fireballs + elemental dmg sounds good enough for me)


And I don't think finding/creating battle BGs is a problem worth considering when designing BE...
« Last Edit: January 24, 2015, 01:32:49 PM by CherryWood »

Offline Xela

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Re: Battle Engine and Combat
« Reply #182 on: January 24, 2015, 01:34:46 PM »
As I said long time before, I think our BE would be great even as it is, if we just can squeeze in at least some tactics options and improve the interface.
For a brother game, that's it. (But not that I would mind much if we want to turn this game into valkyrie simulator  :D )


And I don't think finding/creating battle BGs is a problem worth considering when designing BE...

Yeah, I agree. We need some random events and interesting attacks. BE I am trying to put together is a lot like Jakes RPG scheme.
===

LoL

I thought that I had targeting down but not yet :D

Never thought about that range=1weapons from back row should not reach back row of opfor even if there is noone defending them in the front row. That's a whole bunch of ifs/elifs until I properly wrap my head around this rows thing and can improve the code...
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: Battle Engine and Combat
« Reply #183 on: January 24, 2015, 01:36:42 PM »
Yeah, I downloaded it and fought a couple of battles. It might be a good base for other systems, like global SE or gangs wars. But it's not very suitable for pure BE.

Offline DarkTl

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Re: Battle Engine and Combat
« Reply #184 on: January 24, 2015, 01:42:50 PM »
One thing that I'm not sure about is what to do with our double weapon items system inside of BE.
My thoughts are:
- Ranged weapons are supposed to be worse than melee in close combat.
- If you have ranged and melee weapons equipped, then you can swap them during battle and attack back row when needed.
- If you have two melee or two ranged equipped, then you use both of them when attacking, thus have more power. But no swapping.

Offline Xela

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Re: Battle Engine and Combat
« Reply #185 on: January 24, 2015, 02:09:08 PM »
One thing that I'm not sure about is what to do with our double weapon items system inside of BE.
- Ranged weapons are supposed to be worse than melee in close combat.

Just like in Jake's BE, you'll have two attack skills from your weapon and small weapon.

- If you have ranged and melee weapons equipped, then you can swap them during battle and attack back row when needed.

That's not how I am coding it. Every weapon translates to the attack skill that can locate all targets in range either by my default method or by a custom one.

There are piercing attacks that can reach anyone in range no matter what. Without piercing property, front row will always "cover" the back row so characters there cannot be targeted at all. There are other filters like allies, enemies, single enemy and single ally. There is obviously range.

If there are two weapons, each with skills, there will be a choice of two Attack skills, each with their own targets.

- If you have two melee or two ranged equipped, then you use both of them when attacking, thus have more power. But no swapping.

That is a feature we an introduce with patches and updates. Right now every items can come with one battle-skill and every battle-skill and  each-own sfx and gfx.

What you're suggesting here we can introduce after we add matching items sets. For example a set of a sword and a dagger. Separated they are just normal sword and dagger attacks. Together they add a new combo attack.

Another option is to add a new type field to items, if both items are of the same melee type, damage of any of the battle-skills is increased.

In any case, I am not going to mess with this yet. Stuff like this can be added indefinitely until the code is too complicated to work with... Just while writing this post I got another two possible ideas for damage/items modifiers :D
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: Battle Engine and Combat
« Reply #186 on: January 24, 2015, 02:21:43 PM »
I can't tell you what I prefer because I am not sure how the exhaustible defense works.
With water1 affinity character is invulnerable for one fire attack/spell no matter its power, after that it stops working until the end of the current battle; it's two attacks for water2 and three for water3.

Items reducing health in enemy hands will be a pretty shitty implementation. If such an item is used on MC even in a safe environment, game will end unless I put even more checks in the code.
I don't care otherwise, I don't recall playing one game where I would use items except those that healed/restored.
It's simple to imagine: a poison bomb, a set of shurikens, etc.
Though all this could be warriors skills (that require vitality to use) instead of items that you have to buy all the time.

Offline Xela

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Re: Battle Engine and Combat
« Reply #187 on: January 24, 2015, 02:30:38 PM »
With water1 affinity character is invulnerable for one fire attack/spell no matter its power, after that it stops working until the end of the current battle; it's two attacks for water2 and three for water3.

Doesn't sound like a good way for simpler type of BE, this would prolly drag out the battle. I am in favor of multipliers.

It's simple to imagine: a poison bomb, a set of shurikens, etc.
Though all this could be warriors skills (that require vitality to use) instead of items that you have to buy all the time.

Hard to tell at this point.

We can have:
Weapon Skills: No reqs.
Personal Skills: Vitality points.
Magic Skills: MP points.

But that's once again a bit excessive, will require a lot more work and interface. I need to finish targeting and add something that calculates the battle damage so i can actually test advanced targeting.
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Offline Xela

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Re: Battle Engine and Combat
« Reply #188 on: January 24, 2015, 05:15:00 PM »
LoL

I am still figuring out rows. Prolly wrote a lot of code for nothing before figuring out better ways and erasing the whole thing. Being a bit drunk doesn't help either :(

What do we want rows to do damagewise?

Like what happens if a fighter in back row of one team hits the fighter in the back row of another team with different kind of magic/weapons?
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Offline Xela

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Re: Battle Engine and Combat
« Reply #189 on: January 24, 2015, 07:43:18 PM »
Today ended in a weird way... I've started looking at Jake's BE again :D

With most functionality for the rows done, I am starting to think that it would not be too hard to try and move it there. While our own engine will be faster to develop and improve, Jake's offers moving about option where we could create a lot of interesting battle scenarios and that is bloody hard to recode from the scratch.

How useful do you guys think it might be? (very raw version can be tested with pytfall.arena.test() in the console (Shift + O to open the console). It would not be too hard to create a map with a river, small bridge and some scenery and have a fight from two sides trying to block bridge passing.

Or add a map with a lot of obstacles or a dungeon of some kind.

If you think that it has potential, I'll give modding Jake's BE to work with raws another show, if not I'll finish up basics for our own engine tomorrow. Personally I am in favor of trying to mod Jake's BE one last time to preserve moving about/path functionality, if I don't get pissed off at it's code again, it may actually be possible :)
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: Battle Engine and Combat
« Reply #190 on: January 25, 2015, 02:48:06 AM »
Let's see.
- I like how maps done in Legends of Alkion. With more or less narrow passages and fog of war. They also have potential for random maps generation, this is very important for a team that cannot make manually every single location in the world.
You could try to take some code from there  :)

- I don't understand so far how can you use something like rows in a pure trpg engine where unites act independently and move in 2d space freely  :D

- I proposed in the very beginning to combine tactical map and usual BE. Like you have one or several parties and move them on trpg map, while after direct contact with an enemy party we launch usual battle engine until someone wins. Thus, trpg map serves as a EE, and BE is a BE.



@Xipomus: don't let our disputes to discourage you. We do need backgrounds for locations no matter what.

Offline Xela

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Re: Battle Engine and Combat
« Reply #191 on: January 25, 2015, 11:23:17 AM »
I think it will be possible to rig the BE to work without graphics (just the log + battle calculations) in the future. But one step at a time :)
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Offline Xela

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Re: Battle Engine and Combat
« Reply #192 on: January 25, 2015, 03:19:20 PM »
Update... well, now we can fight, win/lose, aim/target (yeah, those are different things :) ), calculate damage and die...

Next thing is simple AI (To be improved upon later) and transferring all skillz from Jake's BE.
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Offline Xela

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Re: Battle Engine and Combat
« Reply #193 on: January 25, 2015, 07:08:40 PM »
Falling asleep but still porting the spells...

Our Air spells (WIND) were aligned to earth in Jake's BE :)
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Offline Xela

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Re: Battle Engine and Combat
« Reply #194 on: January 26, 2015, 11:12:10 AM »
I didn't expect rows to add so many possibilities but they do :) I have too many ideas in my head... just trying to focus at advancing BE code and failing at this point :D
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