Author Topic: Game Balancing - General  (Read 10184 times)

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Offline DarkTl

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Re: Game Balancing - General
« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2014, 04:31:57 AM »
We cannot allow average sex stat anyway. Customers should have actual sex act that they want in mind, and during it we should check the whore's corresponding sex skill to calculate income. Otherwise there is little point in using several sex skills at all.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 04:33:40 AM by DarkTl »
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Offline Xela

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Re: Game Balancing - General
« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2014, 05:33:52 AM »
We cannot allow average sex stat anyway. Customers should have actual sex act that they want in mind, and during it we should check the whore's corresponding sex skill to calculate income. Otherwise there is little point in using several sex skills at all.

Lets keep the wage based off all relevant stats but further modify them during the jobs or create an event where the costumer is not satisfied and refuses to pay on those grounds.

And while going over the job, I figured out the reason for experience thing (girls gaining millions in experience on very high levels advancing gaining 2 - 3 levels in one day). I was beginning to think that I'd never figure that out...
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: Game Balancing - General
« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2014, 06:16:09 AM »
Otherwise... There is no way for player to know which costumer is which but even for the logic, a female costumer cannot request a blowjob, there is no code that would allow that.
Unless the female customer did something wrong, like had not enough money or picked a fight. That probably should lead to other consequences, more wm-like.
Not to mention an opportunity to find new characters among female customers.

Basically, gender would help a lot for various events.

Only if we keep it simple. There are more pressing tasks, also this is part of lesbian job:
I'd say this part is too difficult even for beta. We already have tags that describe the number of characters on pictures. That's enough to add group events.

As for bdsm pics, I don't even hope to describe them all accurately. At best we could use 4-5 major, very general categories.
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: Game Balancing - General
« Reply #33 on: June 13, 2014, 06:43:53 AM »
Aaand we should come to agreement about the number of AP. That's a very important part of incomes calculation.

I believe right now we have base 1 AP, +1 at 30 constitution and +1 at every next 60 constitution points.
I personally would prefer more smooth increase, something like 1 base AP, then +1 at 40, 90 (+50 points), 150 (+60 points), 220 (+70 points), etc.
And maybe agility should also play some secondary role here, for example 1 more AP per 150 agility.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 06:46:46 AM by DarkTl »
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Offline Xela

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Re: Game Balancing - General
« Reply #34 on: June 13, 2014, 06:53:52 AM »
Unless the female customer did something wrong, like had not enough money or picked a fight. That probably should lead to other consequences, more wm-like.
Not to mention an opportunity to find new characters among female customers.

Basically, gender would help a lot for various events.
I'd say this part is too difficult even for beta. We already have tags that describe the number of characters on pictures. That's enough to add group events.

As for bdsm pics, I don't even hope to describe them all accurately. At best we could use 4-5 major, very general categories.

They have genders already. The thing is that I've tried to advance the customer thing once already but got lost really quickly. There are too many variables in the play here:

Customer status (No longer as important as it was since we won't be matching them to girls ranks anymore) but still might decide stuff in the future. We need blueprints for customers types, I'd really like having regulars in the game with their own "tabs" that they pay off once per month but remain loyal to your establishment in return, have favorite girls and tip better + so on and so on. But logic like that requires a lot of preparation and thinking through.

I am not going to do anything like the WM event where you can enslave entire family for not being able to pay a somewhat insignificant sum once, it's beyond absurd. Maybe once we have tabs and those run high enough... Picking a fight is a better bet, yeah, we can do that. Forcing the girl to "work off" damages she caused could be a fun addon.

===================
I am fixing some stuff in jobs and I will be adding flags to events shortly. I don't think we need to change the Next Day reports, what we really need is a decent summary screen with more filters.


Aaand we should come to agreement about the number of AP. That's a very important part of incomes calculation.

I believe right now we have base 1 AP, +1 at 30 constitution and +1 at every next 60 constitution points.
I personally would prefer more smooth increase, something like 1 base AP, then +1 at 40, 90 (+50 points), 150 (+60 points), 220 (+70 points), etc.
And maybe agility should also play some secondary role here, for example 1 more AP per 150 agility.

Too many APs is an overkill and fairly hard to work with.

Right now it's base 2 for the girls and base 3 for the MC.

Formula:

Code: [Select]
        def get_ap(self):
            ap = 0
            base = 35
            c = self.constitution
            while 1:
                if c >= base:
                    c -= base
                    ap += 1
                    if base == 35:
                        base = 100
                    else:
                        base = base * 2
                else:
                    break
            return self.baseAP + ap

So basically extra AP point with constitution at: 35, 100, 200, 400, 800, 1600 etc. I believe you wanted it this way last we discussed AP.
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: Game Balancing - General
« Reply #35 on: June 13, 2014, 07:45:26 AM »
Ah, ok then, I thought you didn't code it because you want moar AP  :)
The only thing that might be confusing for players is 35, since it's not a part of this geometric progression.

Also, I wonder if we should cap AP to avoid extremely game breaking things even at high levels. Maybe 9-10.

I am not going to do anything like the WM event where you can enslave entire family for not being able to pay a somewhat insignificant sum once
Not enslave, but force the family (rgirl wife/daughter) to work off in one way or another if the male customer cannot pay the bill. We need limited money for a start though.
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Offline Xela

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Re: Game Balancing - General
« Reply #36 on: June 13, 2014, 08:18:36 AM »
Not enslave, but force the family (rgirl wife/daughter) to work off in one way or another if the male customer cannot pay the bill. We need limited money for a start though.

Yeah well, still sounds messy to code this and weird for something that is usually a fairly insignificant amount of money.

On the AP front, I don't think it should be realistic to get to a level high enough to max it out. Most of these incidences are related to a poorly thought through and immature leveling system we have now and it's getting better all the time. To get to a level where AP would be maxed out should take several tenth of thousands of days.

AP: 10 = 8 increases ==> 6400 constitution. 6400/5 (max per level) = 1280 (Level). Even if we allow extra AP from rare scripted item or unique event... it would still be in high hundreds.
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: Game Balancing - General
« Reply #37 on: June 13, 2014, 12:53:32 PM »
We need more service girls in the dev mode. I cannot test bar income properly.
Strip tips seem ok.
I pushed new income for whores. Looks good so far, though difficult at first when they have like 0/0/5/0 sex skills, but that's the whole point.

As for difficulties, we could add multipliers into all incoming formulas, like 3 times more on casual and 2 times less on pro or something like that.

Also, we should remove taxes or decrease them. We'll see what we should do with them closer to the end of balancing. Maybe it would be possible to remove them from dev mode for now?
================================================================================
I gave some thought to the cloning concept. It could be more than just a secondary option, we could turn it into another profession for MC, along with brothels, arena and ST. MC has to look for "quality" girls during girls meetings, convince them to agree for cloning, make a clone (by himself? MC lab? upgrades for MC lab?), then teach them basics and sell asap before he has no choice but to pay for life prolonging, either to someone who willing to pay for it or to places where long life is not required.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 12:56:38 PM by DarkTl »
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Offline Xela

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Re: Game Balancing - General
« Reply #38 on: June 13, 2014, 01:26:24 PM »
We need more service girls in the dev mode. I cannot test bar income properly.
Strip tips seem ok.
I pushed new income for whores. Looks good so far, though difficult at first when they have like 0/0/5/0 sex skills, but that's the whole point.

Ok, I'll take a look at it tomorrow, this next day summary screen of CWs is impossibly hard to build due to all the logic/sorting it requires...

[As for difficulties, we could add multipliers into all incoming formulas, like 3 times more on casual and 2 times less on pro or something like that.

Yeap, as I've said, I made a mockup of a difficulty module that can rebuild itself so it can be adjusted at any time and we'll just put something like:

difficulties.wage_mod in the formulas.

Also, we should remove taxes or decrease them. We'll see what we should do with them closer to the end of balancing. Maybe it would be possible to remove them from dev mode for now?

Shouldn't be too hard (I think it's one line of code), I'll take a look at it tomorrow as well.

I gave some thought to the cloning concept. It could be more than just a secondary option, we could turn it into another profession for MC, along with brothels, arena and ST. MC has to look for "quality" girls during girls meetings, convince them to agree for cloning, make a clone (by himself? MC lab? upgrades for MC lab?), then teach them basics and sell asap before he has no choice but to pay for life prolonging, either to someone who willing to pay for it or to places where long life is not required.

LoL

You don't have enough on the TODO list as it is  >:(

But it sounds like a good concept.
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Offline pelusa1ca

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Re: Game Balancing - General
« Reply #39 on: September 12, 2014, 11:48:05 AM »
Would it be here that we may submit suggestions for items to help with balance or elsewhere?

Thanks,

P

Offline Xela

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Re: Game Balancing - General
« Reply #40 on: September 12, 2014, 01:54:47 PM »
Would it be here that we may submit suggestions for items to help with balance or elsewhere?

Thanks,

P

Suggestions you can write here, if you have actual items, to the mod section.
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Offline krakr

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Re: Game Balancing - General
« Reply #41 on: May 13, 2018, 11:51:20 PM »
Well, I guess I'll be the first to post since the actual public Beta release, someone has to.
Full disclosure, I broke my own game by enabling the renpy console and trying to cheat XP for my MC.
I had to scrap that game since I was just guessing at the command to add XP & the code was left floating around my MC for eternity.
(Sorry Xela for posting the traceback & not mentioning that first)
My current game is 3 real life days old, about 30 rl hours invested and MC is Lv 32, but he'll prolly 1 hit your MC :P

Let me preface this by saying I cheat the economy, so NO economic data will be touched upon in any of this.
I played a shitload of those "tycoon" type games in the 90's and am in no hurry to repeat that experience.
So I cheat money.
In nearly EVERY game.
Economics are not fun to me & I play games that are FUN to play even if I have to go against the dev's vision to do so.
There's plenty of meat on the bone left for me to be excited about.

I'm currently playing the publicly available version with the discord fixes dated up to May 3.
So I wont bother mentioning the awesome job those fixes did with regard to balance.

OK here we go...
XP system: I love the current rate for whores and students. I think Maids should get the 25xp (or whatever) they currently get per AP remaining.
For some reason, Guards seem to be doing OK, I haven't really gotten that deep into it since I only have 2 guards atm but they wind up with about 100/turn unless
they're in training with Abby or Xonea during the day, then they can get more.
I can live with 100/day for any class including the MC since it takes a few game days to get that character back up to max (if you play the way I do, i.e. keep 'em maxed all the time.)
10 game days is a manageable amount of time to lvl. Of course, I'm referring to my current playthru. I micro-manage daily shit that's why I hate economic chains.

* RANT * Damn dude would adding word wrap to the reply box on this forum be so fucking hard? if my post has some wierd hard breaks, that's your reason

I've noticed ppl bitching about 12xp for arena & shit, but they don't realize that's per round since they prolly got the ctrl key pressed.
If you don't read your end of day report, it's not a fucking *reportable* balance issue.
I should repeat that in BOLD lmao
If you don't read your end of day report, it's not a fucking *reportable* balance issue.

Issue # 1 with me is when you finally have the time to start recruiting free women, if they say they're a whore why are they virgins with 0 sex xp?
That seems like a failure in the random encounter stuff that is probably being looked at as I write. out of balance for sure.
You can, and I have spent days just banging the same girl in every possible way since MC-npc interaction pays off better than any school.
(as it should be)

Issue # 2: RNG!!!!!!! random number generation in ANY computer game I've come across (except the roll the dice type RPG's) have either fucked me or flattered me.
Feast or famin. Can't tell you how many times a 75% chance turned out to be 1 in anywhere from 5 to 10, REPEATABLE. Yes I've save scummed my share of games.
I put an Idea forward on discord for the school generation. My idea is to have EVERY school represented, but upon clicking on the school you want/need ,
THEN RNG kicks in and gives you 0-2 options. Those options are either remembered for the amount of time like it is now, or if there are no saved schools, then re-roll next day.
I hope you get what I mean, cuz as is, your choices are locked in until they expire. I know something is coming with that, since the enrolled school doesn't expire like it used to.
Just keep my suggestion in mind when you overhaul.
& pls NOBODY tell me the arena is basically an RNG, cuz you'd just be showing how stupid you are or don't understand the concept of Random .
Lmao I actually copied a "Craps" program in the early 80's on a TRS-80, that is what RNG should be, but idk if it's the Renpy or RPGMaker or me being insane, but I hate RNG in those engines.
I think they're hiding variables from the dev's themselves. that makes it NOT random, but an equation. the command on the TRS-80 (for sale in 1980) was "randomize"
you gave a start #, a finish number, added randomize , did that twice with 1-6 and then told it what won & what was craps & 120 lines of code later
(if that) you could play craps with the computer all day long. THAT is RNG, I'm a little wary of Renpy & random. It's certainly not just this game.
but wtf am I doing with 5 active kunoichi schools and 2 strippers & the list goes on .
I imagine you could write a line of code making the RNG a % less likely to pick the last chosen school. See? there's 2 suggestions for same issue.
RNG is not as random as should be in these free developer platforms unless you write it as an equation I think. it's got no prob with combat odds and shit as long as they're equation based.

#3 is not an issue I advocate, but it is an RNG issue so I'd feel like a douche for NOT bringing it up since I read it all the time. The stores.
I get it that awesome shit like the major ring pf physical whatever, the +30 con but more important +50 max v should be available only rarely.
I cheated my starting cash, not when merchants have shit.
Or did I? does the fact that my MC has 90M make the merchants more likely to spawn good shit? I can't answer that, but I edited the original
Whoremaster items list back nearly a decade ago lol & you assigned a % a merchant would stock it, and a % it would be a drop. I see no reason the dev team would deviate.
SOOOOoooooo thats my look at the stores. OH and if you were curious if the merchants re-stock if you buy them out, NO they don't, it's timed.



Typed a novel already, so even if I had more issues, I'm done


[edit] OH! & dudes, don't think I forgot Brothel master. That game had HUGE potential & I see bits of it in here (that was the one where you got bonuses based on categories like fire emblem & FF & catgirl & shit stacked or was that a different game. I had many hard drive failures since then, so I honestly can't remember)

« Last Edit: May 14, 2018, 12:01:42 AM by krakr »

Offline Xela

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Re: Game Balancing - General
« Reply #42 on: May 14, 2018, 02:16:07 AM »
Issue # 1 with me is when you finally have the time to start recruiting free women, if they say they're a whore why are they virgins with 0 sex xp?
That seems like a failure in the random encounter stuff that is probably being looked at as I write. out of balance for sure.
You can, and I have spent days just banging the same girl in every possible way since MC-npc interaction pays off better than any school.
(as it should be)

We need a NPC talking about this but there is no "Whore" NPC in the city (yet). Here, Virginity is either restored or she went through elite training and never lost it. At least that's the idea, we're not likely to change this in the future but we will add an explanation at some point. This also should not come as a big suprise to a seasoned player as there are items that do about the same thing.

Issue # 2: RNG!!!!!!! random number generation in ANY computer game I've come across (except the roll the dice type RPG's) have either fucked me or flattered me.
Feast or famin. Can't tell you how many times a 75% chance turned out to be 1 in anywhere from 5 to 10, REPEATABLE. Yes I've save scummed my share of games.
I put an Idea forward on discord for the school generation. My idea is to have EVERY school represented, but upon clicking on the school you want/need ,
THEN RNG kicks in and gives you 0-2 options. Those options are either remembered for the amount of time like it is now, or if there are no saved schools, then re-roll next day.
I hope you get what I mean, cuz as is, your choices are locked in until they expire. I know something is coming with that, since the enrolled school doesn't expire like it used to.
Just keep my suggestion in mind when you overhaul.
& pls NOBODY tell me the arena is basically an RNG, cuz you'd just be showing how stupid you are or don't understand the concept of Random .
Lmao I actually copied a "Craps" program in the early 80's on a TRS-80, that is what RNG should be, but idk if it's the Renpy or RPGMaker or me being insane, but I hate RNG in those engines.
I think they're hiding variables from the dev's themselves. that makes it NOT random, but an equation. the command on the TRS-80 (for sale in 1980) was "randomize"
you gave a start #, a finish number, added randomize , did that twice with 1-6 and then told it what won & what was craps & 120 lines of code later
(if that) you could play craps with the computer all day long. THAT is RNG, I'm a little wary of Renpy & random. It's certainly not just this game.
but wtf am I doing with 5 active kunoichi schools and 2 strippers & the list goes on .
I imagine you could write a line of code making the RNG a % less likely to pick the last chosen school. See? there's 2 suggestions for same issue.
RNG is not as random as should be in these free developer platforms unless you write it as an equation I think. it's got no prob with combat odds and shit as long as they're equation based.

Depending on specific places in the game, locked random is used in some cases, so save-load will result in the same values. RNG will balance itself out in time! I did tons of testing when learning renpy so you shouldn't worry about it too much.

One idea to mitigate this is to increase stat ranges by 100% - 200%. I'll give it some thought but prolly after the Beta release.

#3 is not an issue I advocate, but it is an RNG issue so I'd feel like a douche for NOT bringing it up since I read it all the time. The stores.
I get it that awesome shit like the major ring pf physical whatever, the +30 con but more important +50 max v should be available only rarely.
I cheated my starting cash, not when merchants have shit.
Or did I? does the fact that my MC has 90M make the merchants more likely to spawn good shit? I can't answer that, but I edited the original
Whoremaster items list back nearly a decade ago lol & you assigned a % a merchant would stock it, and a % it would be a drop. I see no reason the dev team would deviate.
SOOOOoooooo thats my look at the stores. OH and if you were curious if the merchants re-stock if you buy them out, NO they don't, it's timed.

The idea in general is to Simulate the world best we can, it's not always possible but I don't see a reason to mess with what stores will sell. My point is that MC's tier/level/stats/skills/actions decide (at times) what bonus he can get there and now. But shops are there for "everybody" so changing inventory based on MC feels wrong. We will have global events at some point and those may add special items to the shops in the future :)

[edit] OH! & dudes, don't think I forgot Brothel master. That game had HUGE potential & I see bits of it in here (that was the one where you got bonuses based on categories like fire emblem & FF & catgirl & shit stacked or was that a different game. I had many hard drive failures since then, so I honestly can't remember)

Manager will have his/her own SimPy process so they will do more and properly. This is premature to report.
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Offline krakr

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Re: Game Balancing - General
« Reply #43 on: May 15, 2018, 02:21:42 PM »
Manager will have his/her own SimPy process so they will do more and properly. This is premature to report.


Wasn't actually reporting it, more of a tip of the hat to you since I see where you're going.