<-- Archived --> (Battle Engine and Combat)

[livingforever]

Hi!
Continueing discussion from here (because you're definitely not talking about items anymore  ):

The rpg type BE I actually really like and don't believe it to be foreign at all.

Well, let's see what currently is bad - then we can determine if a new system is necessary (or if the problems can be solved with the old one).

• Skills - Current skills are very boring, I think I don't need to tell you why; characters need (partially unique) skills that are actually interesting
• UI - Damn, the current UI is so horrible I don't know where to start complaining; it needs to be redone from scratch. Right now, everything is wrong, colors, placement, style, it's a mess; and yes, the UI is a very important part of the system - why do you think iPhones sell better than Android smartphones?
• Enemies - Similar to skills, enemies need to be a lot more diverse and interesting
• Loot - Rewards need to be more consistent, some randomness is fine but at the moment it's too much
• Leveling - Experience progression needs to be less linear, which is somewhat off topic here

Functionality wise, take a look at Adventurer Manager - it has a very simple combat system, comparable to what you already have in place, but more fleshed out.
The UI still isn't good though, please don't copy that.
Have fun!

[DarkTl]

Just forgot. We'll find backgrounds, I don't worry about that. I am done with work for today, going to take a break and start looking into BE options.

Right. That's why we had to use that specific, customly rendered bg for arena, because it was so simple to find a decent one.

Current BE has high demands for bg. It should have a certain angle of drawing, so that characters don't look strange.
What we need is a BE that could be used anywhere, on any bg. You have been attacked on the street, BE uses that street bg.

[Xela]

Hi!
Continueing discussion from here (because you're definitely not talking about items anymore  ):Well, let's see what currently is bad - then we can determine if a new system is necessary (or if the problems can be solved with the old one).

Sounds like a plan.

   

• Skills - Current skills are very boring, I think I don't need to tell you why; characters need (partially unique) skills that are actually interesting

Skills are not an issue. It's not about changing the BE, it's about adding content to it.

   

• UI - Damn, the current UI is so horrible I don't know where to start complaining; it needs to be redone from scratch. Right now, everything is wrong, colors, placement, style, it's a mess; and yes, the UI is a very important part of the system - why do you think iPhones sell better than Android smartphones?

Once again, matter of restyling. This is basic stuff, I would have been done with it long time ago if I had a clue on what good design for BE UI is. Gismo is responsible for all the recent updates to game ui and he's gone as well.

   

• Enemies - Similar to skills, enemies need to be a lot more diverse and interesting

Once again, content. Also a matter of adding written content and goals/quests/jobs to the Arena for example.

   

• Loot - Rewards need to be more consistent, some randomness is fine but at the moment it's too much

I left these thing up to Dark and CW. But it's content once again.

   

• Leveling - Experience progression needs to be less linear, which is somewhat off topic here

Agreed, we've decided to keep it "linear" (it's not actually linear but close to it) until gamedesign took coherent shape so we can tell what the options are.

Functionality wise, take a look at Adventurer Manager - it has a very simple combat system, comparable to what you already have in place, but more fleshed out.
The UI still isn't good though, please don't copy that.

Assume we can do anything except 3D renders (yet, they are planning to add that next year I think), any effects, placements, animations, transitions in the confinements of the graphical resources we have or can find on the net. What does a decent UI look like? Maybe even an example from youtube...

===============================
Basically we're on the same page here, general BE design (I love), while UI + Content need updates.

I just pushed 3 or 4 commits so I can fall back to server version of code and completely mess up the BE.

My plan as it stands now:

1) Kill stats system if the BE (there is very deep integration of what this into the engine that is not really acceptable to us, this is the part I am worried about the most)
2) Instead of overcomplicated bridge, provide instance of our own classes to the BE and use whatever required
3) Add new battle scheme that handles rows

I am going in with an axe instead of a scalpel... if something proves to difficult, confusing or time consuming, there will be our own version written from scratch.

Right. That's why we had to use that specific, customly rendered bg for arena, because it was so simple to find a decent one.

Current BE has high demands for bg. It should have a certain angle of drawing, so that characters don't look strange.
What we need is a BE that could be used anywhere, on any bg. You have been attacked on the street, BE uses that street bg.

We had three options for the Arena. I found another kickass option somewhere on the game forums some time ago, could prolly traced it back if something depended on it.

When we were offered a render I thought it would suck, but why the heck not...? Turned out not just great but also animated

If you're suggesting one of those engines that are focuses off logic, display just the portraits and have a small picture of the area in the middle while the ui is places on left/right sides, I hate those designs

Otherwise, if you're talking about using different sizes of sprites with specific placements on the BG, I don't mind.

[DarkTl]

So far we didn't get a permanent artist. Assuming that you can be attacked anywhere, we either need a unique battle background for every zone, or we should stop to use unique bgs everywhere.

There are a lot of games that don't try to show an appropriate bg, they just draw a neutral battlefield right on current bg.

[Xela]

So far we didn't get a permanent artist. Assuming that you can be attacked anywhere, we either need a unique battle background for every zone, or we should stop to use unique bgs everywhere.

There are a lot of games that don't try to show an appropriate bg, they just draw a neutral battlefield right on current bg.

LoL We don't have a load of "permanent" positions filled in Problem here is partly lack of concepts and designs. I can't assign anything to Thewlis for example even though he's prolly a far better coder than I. Just saying "ST"/"BE" is sadly not enough, specifics and constants in the design are required... it's a large part of the reason why the team is this difficult to expand. People are willing to invest time in game development if it's a hobby that they enjoy, it's a whole other matter if you're required to make decisions and lead a development of a concept/module/game. That takes up more time that actual coding!

Now it's really time to take a look at BE


Neutral battle field is also an option that I've always kept in mind, just felt like for the modules like the Arena, we should have proper stuff.

[DarkTl]

Can you tell the same about writers or artists? I don't see Klaus or Gismo anymore, and it's not like we done with texts or interface.

I'm tired of it. Don't count on any new bgs for BE from me except those in dropbox. I hope you like them.

[Xela]

Can you tell the same about writers or artists? I don't see Klaus or Gismo anymore, and it's not like we done with texts or interface.

Yes... I Can.  Just for graphical resources we have E, Gismo and maybe even Russian guy who created wood Skin for WM (He's a professional graphics designer). X Is also logging in once in a while. + you can always ask around on the Deviant for help. Our guys all offered to help.

For writing... People are PMing me all the time, you need to see my PM list to get a hang of it... the problem is that I can't give them proper assignments and they disappear shortly after that. I don't know the writing requirements of Interactions system as well as you or CW. I know the code and the functions created for it but the texts required are beyond me.

When you're asking people to get a hang of Mercurial, figuring out the finer points of the (modern, not Alpha release) game and it's internals... it's a bit overwhelming and they just go away. I always consider this a problem of the development, we need to be able to set specific tasks for professional or semi-professional artists/writers without expecting them to know the inner working of the game.

**The only way I've ever seen working is:

Set the exact writing/Graphics requirement that will last and post it in the request section on the forum or give assignment to a specific person I don't know if you're aware of now, but we once had English teacher from Japan who did the complete spelling/grammar check of the whole giirlsmeets and pushed...

I'm tired of it. Don't count on any new bgs for BE from me except those in dropbox. I hope you like them.

I do like them. But you need to understand that these problems can be solved. And I am tired a bit as well... I think that it's partly because it'll soon be an year since we've released something to be evaluated by the "masses" and of the constant improvement to logic that we plague ourselves with. I think we've getting to a point where we can call the concepts "final" and move to other matters at hand...

[Xela]

LOL

It's actually a bit funny when the guy "we can't count on" is online shorty after your post

Xipomus: Online right now or less than 15 minutes ago 


I don't really believe that he'll tell us to go f#ck ourselves if we have a specific request!

[Xipomus]

Nope... just describe what you want... and i'll have a look what i can make.

My render pc is working on a comic at the moment and is rendering 8-12 hours a day.. but on the weekend i can find a hole i think.

The better the description the better the end result.

Let me know.

Ciao,

Xip

[Xela]

The better the description the better the end result.

LoL "Heel Erg Bedankt"!!! (I and X both speak Dutch like I and Dark both speak Russian )

And that's my point exactly... I can't really describe what we need! Not mentioning that we don't really need anything at the moment that I am aware of other than concrete game concepts or game logic.

It's a process... that requires time and thought!

[Xipomus]

On the weekend i'll download the lastest version again and will look what kind of bg's are used now.
And what kind of universal backgrounds could work for fights outside the arena.

Hopefully this time i can get the version to compile without errors

[Xela]

Hopefully this time i can get the version to compile without errors

That's not likely. It will compile without errors I think but we're square in the middle of retagging and a complete change of tagging concept moving from JSON to faster loading directly from filenames.

It's not the best time to "get back into the game"

I think the only people on Earth who know what's up with the modern version are I, Dark, CW and Thewlis (Who figured the whole thing out without any hints btw )

[DarkTl]

Oh, but I did gave an assignment to Klaus about a month and half ago (more lines for those parts of girlsmeets that don't have enough, I explained it in details).
If that's not a task for writers, then what is? I can handle girls descriptions on my own 

But you need to understand that these problems can be solved. And I am tired a bit as well...

I'm tired of searching for bgs, I mean. I don't think that you do it too from time to time 
 If only there was some database that specializes in bgs from visual novels...

I can't really describe what we need! Not mentioning that we don't really need anything at the moment that I am aware of other than concrete game concepts or game logic.

But I can. In order to freely and effectively use existing battle engine anywhere we need a set of backgrounds for all types of territory, with the same resolution and drawing angle that has our background for arena.

We can start with existing ones. It's city street, beach, forest, building. By building I mean cases when there is a battle in a tavern, inside brothel or some warehouse.

**The only way I've ever seen working is:

Set the exact writing/Graphics requirement that will last and post it in the request section on the forum

Let's try it. I'll create a thread, throw there cleaned girlmeets file and ask to help with it.

[DarkTl]

Now let's talk about BE, or rather what kind of options we could use there to make it more interesting.

- Rows. That's a classic FF feature that may or may not exist in some parts.
It has who variations:
1) Characters in the back row deal two times less damage with weapons, but receive two times less damage from weapons too. Thus it is for mages only.
2) In the back row you can only use ranged weapons (or magic) and can only be attacked by ranged weapons (or magic) too as long as the front row is not dead.

- Spells and mp. In many games they don't use mp as a number, they use it as a set of castings. Like, at level 30 you can cast two lvl 3 spells, three lvl 2 spells and five lvl one spells per day.
Of course magic is more powerful there to be useful enough.

- AP, action points. Right now we use another FF system with those bars. There are games where characters use AP in battle, and we already have AP!
Every turn you get all AP you have and can spend them on combat actions like attack. The more powerful skill you want to use, the more AP it needs.

- In some games you can change active party members during combat, not 100% freely of course. Like, 3 active party members and 2 reserve ones.

- Skills for weapons (maybe close/ranged) and magic, like our sex skills.

[Xipomus]

We can start with existing ones. It's city street, beach, forest, building. By building I mean cases when there is a battle in a tavern, inside brothel or some warehouse.
Let's try it. I'll create a thread, throw there cleaned girlmeets file and ask to help with it.

I'll build some 3d sets so i can render these on the weekend. I'll start with the city street then beach, ect.
Do you want something moving in the background as in the arena? (the cages) or just a static image?

For reference ... which city street drawn pic is currently used? This so i can try and match the lighting and stuff.
Won't be exactly the same (3d and drawn) but i can make it close.

Let me know and i'll see what i can do.