Pie, Pi, and Carl Sagan

[TF]

I certainly like the possibilities of having choices affect later events, but it seems like it'd be incredibly tedious (from my limited perspective) to code all the possibilities if you have branching choices like that with the size of the coding team at your disposal. Seems like you could use the Disposition/Suspicion stats that are already there to enable or limit choices a player has in reaction to events... hooray for pulling more ideas from Mass Effect!

[DocClox]

I certainly like the possibilities of having choices affect later events, but it seems like it'd be incredibly tedious (from my limited perspective) to code all the possibilities if you have branching choices like that with the size of the coding team at your disposal.

 
Well, we're not going to change much in the long term. The game remains a sandbox game (in the GTA sense) and main quest is still going to be the same. But I can imagine we might have side-quests where your choices affect gameplay. In the simplest sense, a decision might  grant access to a game resource or not - or grant access to different resources depending on how you choose. We could have events that were referenced by different events.

In that sense, it's not as bad as trying to implement multiple story paths in an ADV game, where thje complexity rapidly spirals out of control. The consequences of your actions are limited to a relatively small set of events.

I don't know - maybe I'm drawing an artificial distinction here.

  Seems like you could use the Disposition/Suspicion stats that are already there to enable or limit choices a player has in reaction to events... hooray for pulling more ideas from Mass Effect!

[d31r3x]

Just a couple of days off and I've been blamed of Town Wards dictatorship  (never meant that), some people want WM to be a flying sim (if it's an space opera flying sim, you can count on my support  ) and others are making some sort of WM MC psychological profile (we have seen that in a number of tv series, but the person of the profile was always a psycho killer...  )

Anyone heard about 'psychological projection'? Now I think of it, after reading all posts of this thread, it seems that the MC silent choice is meant to be a 'insert your personality here' character rather than a pure silent protagonist. I think playing WM could be a mental exercise of sanity, where anyone can be cruel, wicked, mischievous and do all of those evil and funny things which could grant you a ticket to a cell in the city jail / insane asylum. Can't it be achieved through multi-choice text lines (MassEffect fashion)? I mean, even if they don't affect main story that much, players can still feel they're playing the way they want.

[DocClox]

Just a couple of days off and I've been blamed of Town Wards dictatorship  (never meant that)

You made a suggestion that seemed reasonable. No one objected at the time. Seems fair enough to me

  Anyone heard about 'psychological projection'? Now I think of it, after reading all posts of this thread, it seems that the MC silent choice is meant to be a 'insert your personality here' character rather than a pure silent protagonist.

Yeah. Scott McCloud talks about this in the opening chapter of Understanding Comics. I had some notes on this I was going to post earlier. I might see if I can find them.

Can't it be achieved through multi-choice text lines (MassEffect fashion)? I mean, even if they don't affect main story that much, players can still feel they're playing the way they want.

That was my hope and expectation, I must admit.

[LordJerle]

I'll be happy with an arena you can fight your girls in or something >.>
Hrmm there seems to be a theme here...
Meh... Imma go to bed then imma write up a project plan when I wake up.

[fixet]

Just a couple of days off and I've been blamed of Town Wards dictatorship

yes, you're quite the martyr
I never accused you of anything, I was just confused about how we got from the network to levels without anyone saying anything about it, the fact that I do not like the idea is secondary

he's a wee bit clueless when it comes to getting laid

dude, what?

though, I agree that there is a general problem in communication here, most apparent in this thread
I figured this was a
"take them to the dungeon"
vs
"yeeeeessss, do imprison them in the bowels of my dungeon, where I may assert my dominance over them by placing tapeworm-like creatures on, or in the general vicinity of, their vaginas, among many other things. hyuk hyuk"

I do think you're just making everyone play your character, though

and I hated me/alpha protocol dialogue system
most recent example would be a guy saying "I have a proposal for you"
one of the options says "proposal", and I figure he'll ask for the details of the proposal
"lol I'm a bachelor lol"
that's not what I wanted him to say. it's not funny, it doesn't even make sense, being a bachelor doesn't stop you from getting married

now, I just know someone is going to take this as a personal insult, since none of my posts seem to evade that, but I don't want my character to speak/think whatever you or whoever wrote the event wants him to. not because I doubt anyone's writing skills, I just don't want your opinions in my game
however hard you try, this game will never have as strong a story as, say, baldur's gate, or planescape: torment, and they didn't even have set characters
adding a set personality to a weak story will not make this a better game
I am not trying to be an asshole, I am speaking the truth, and deep down, you know it
I, on the other hand, know non of my words will make a difference, because you will just do it anyway


I hated mass effect for many reasons, one of which is the dialogue
I did not think it was written well (and since it was written by drew karpyshyn, I'm right beyond the shadow of a doubt), shepard has a very limited personality

I know you said

For the purposes of this disucssion, it's better to think of Shepard as a   man (or woman) who like most of us is capable of both good and evil,   and makes moral choices on a case  by case basis.

but it wouldn't be true, because paragon shepard is not the same man renegade shepard is, because drewy didn't write the lines of a singular character with different views of the world, he wrote his usual "evil guy who gets the job done", and then he just wrote up the other guy
and did it badly

edit: and yes, I am aware I praised one of his works, and then implied he's a bad writer. he's not, he just really, really sucks lately, and I am angry at him. I am a hypocritical whore

[DocClox]

I do think you're just making everyone play your character, though

You know what? I really can't be arsed with this any more.

It seems clear that the poll is asking the wrong question: here's a new one

After which, one way or another, I will regard the matter as settled.

[fixet]

I am sorry for annoying you, but if you are so hell-bent on doing everything the way you want, why have these discussions?
you couldn't have possibly expected everyone to share your opinions

if you don't want discussions on development of the game, don't allow them

[DocClox]

I am sorry for annoying you, but if you are so hell-bent on doing everything the way you want, why have these discussions?

Why yes fixet, I am indeed hell-bent on asserting my dominance over the pink petal community. That's why in my previous post I linked to a poll where I offer to stand down if it turns out the majority are in fact opposed to my idea. Because that's the best wayto force everyone to do as you say - by standing down and letting everyone else get on with it.

if you don't want discussions on development of the game, don't allow   them

Gosh. You don't suppose that maybe I invite discussions of the subject because actually I do care? That I might be a wee bit peeved at the way you persistently distort the opinions of others and present everyone else in the worst possible light? No, of course not. That's just silly. It's just because I'm power mad. There, I admit it. You can be happy now.

[fixet]

the only time I ever mentioned "asserting dominance" was in that dialogue option which had nothing to do with you, or anyone else, and was actually referring to a torturing "event"
where you came up with that, I have no clue

and the whole "standing down if people don't like that one thing I wanted to do" crap hardly sends the message you think it does

and when was I, exactly, distorting other people's opinions? or presenting everyone in the worst possible light?
no, really, I'm curious. ever since I started posting here, I find myself constantly apologizing for things I never said

I really can't help but draw a parallel between this and the whole exodia fiasco
I said it then, and I say it again, 90% of his heinous attacks on you were never directed at you to begin with
you were being childish then, and you are being childish now

[DocClox]

the only time I ever mentioned "asserting dominance" was in that dialogue option which had nothing to do with you, or anyone else, and was actually referring to a torturing "event"
where you came up with that, I have no clue

You don't think that was kind implicit in "I am sorry for annoying you, but if you are so hell-bent on doing   everything the way you want, why have these discussions?"

and the whole "standing down if people don't like that one thing I wanted to do" crap hardly sends the message you think it does

fixet, I don't give a tinker's damn what message you take from it. If you're right about the majority opinion, you get to win. Be happy.

[fixet]

1. no, I don't, because it wasn't

2. yes, that is readily apparent from your previous post, where you explained to me why you did it

and I never said anything about a majority
those were my opinions, and fuck you, you hypocritical prick
first you call me out on distorting other people's opinions, then you evade my asking for an example, and then proceed  to distort my words
what do I get to win? some half-assed compromise? oh, wait, you'd stop working on wm if that happened

[necno]

LOL tapeworms on vaginas.

[Switchblade]

Sigh. This is like my second post on this board, and I'm already getting involved in a flamewar. Don't really like leaving Doc to defend himself alone, though. So...

and I never said anything about a majority
those were my opinions, and fuck you, you hypocritical prick

No, fuck you, you whiney little bitch.

I am not trying to be an asshole, I am speaking the truth, and deep down, you know it

How respectful of other peoples' opinions does that sound? 'Fuck whatever you say, my words are the truth, the sole truth, the truth that you all know and are ignoring'. It's a pretty good way to be an asshole.
I must admit, I'm rather entertained at you claiming to speak the truth ('For the silent majority' like exodia? The language is getting rather familiar), and then flipping out when he puts up a poll to determine the overall opinion and offers to back off.

1. no, I don't, because it wasn't

Yes it was. If you're a critical failure in communications and didn't mean to imply it, that's fine, but it was pretty definitely implied.

not because I doubt anyone's writing skills, I just don't want your opinions in my game

Then take them out, dumbass. The game is highly moddable for a reason.
Hey, I understand that you want the game the way you want it. Who doesn't? The difference here seems to be that you want to strongarm the devs into making the game the way you want it, while everyone else is satisfied to mod it for themselves.


Getting into the personality versus silent debate for myself... your character is bloody well saying something. People are reacting to it. They're not reacting to what the player's imagining, they're reacting to what the scriptwriter's imagining. A silent protagonist is either practically not even in the game (Persona 4), or they have a personality that everyone is reacting to and that's shaping events, but you don't actually see it so you're imagining another one and getting consistently cockblocked when nobody reacts to the personality you imagined.
If you don't like the personality, mod in another one. I don't want your opinions in my game either, fixet.

[Lorde]

This topic is now about Pie (or Pi if you prefer.)

I like apple myself. (Apple Pi greatness might cause a singularity. Probably best not to mess with.  Though it would have a very tasty cinnamon flavored event horizon.)