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Offline Xela

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Re: SimBrothel: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #645 on: April 30, 2013, 10:29:28 AM »
I suddenly came up with another idea about item fields. For example, if you give a cat to a girl, maybe it could help her to generate some additional joy every turn? Or some rare amulet helps to restore a small portion of mp every turn, etc.
Unless it'll require a significant amount of coding, of course. What do you think?

Also, I'm ready to hear your explanation about items and classes.

Nope, the way sGirls class is coded, generating per turn through items or traits or anything else is actually very easy to code in because 80% of code for that is already written. I am busy right now but I'll try to write a concept for items system tonight or tomorrow. If anyone wants to do it by the way, feel free, I'll code it into the game after we all signed on it :)
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Offline Xela

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Re: SimBrothel: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #646 on: May 01, 2013, 08:53:31 AM »
Ok,

So far the concept design for items system:

Items will come with a lot of defaults filled by the class so not all of the following will be a requirement to construct an item in xml. (This means that fields can be left out completely)

ID: Name of the Item. Game is likely to crash if not specified.
Description: (Optional) Defaults to an empty string.
Changing stats: (Optional) Defaults to an empty dict.
Changing minimum of stats: (Optional) Defaults to an empty dict.
Changing maximum of stats: (Optional) Defaults to an empty dict.
Add/Remove traits: (Optional) Defaults to an empty list.
Add/Remove skills: (Optional) Defaults to an empty list.
Add/Remove Effects: (Optional) (Not implemented yet but the fields will be there. Effects in the future would be sick, poisoned, exhausted, pregnant and so on). Defaults to an empty list.

List of traits that favor/reject the item: (Optional) (for auto-equipping or shopping). Defaults to an empty list.

Price: (Optional) Defaults to 0.
Sex: (Optional) (Male/Female/Uni) This will defaults to Unisex unless specified otherwise, this should prevent Male hero from being able to equip a dress or a strap-on.
Infinite: (Optional) (If item is infinite in the shop) Defaults to false.
Locations: (Lists locations where the item can be acquired) At least one must be specified or item will be registered but will never appear in the game.
Chance: (Optional) (To acquire an item or find it in the shop) Defaults to 50 if not specified.
Badness: (Optional) (Chance of buying an item) Defaults to 0 if not specified.
EqChance: (Optional) (Chance of girl AutoEquipping the item) Defaults to Badness if not specified.
Icon: (path to file with picture of an item) We might use default here as well after we find some pics for slots that would make good defaults. For now, this is a third field item will fail without!

Slots and Types: (Optional)

Slot default to consumable!

Weapon Slot - Sword, Dagger, Mace.
Concealed Weapon Slot - Dagger.
Three Ring Slots - Rings
Amulet Slot - Amulet
Head Slot - Helmet, Tiara, Crown
Body Slot - Armor/Clothing
Cape Slot - Cape
Feet Slot - Boots
Consumable Slot - Consumable

Consumable also opens a number of optional fields (maybe more in the future):

Block: Will have no effect if used again before x number of days. Defaults to false.
Cmax: Can only mod a stat up to this value. Defaults to max value of a stat.
Temp: IF effect is temporary. Defaults to false



Three Belt Slots - To take items into battle.

Note: Battle Items are always consumables and will be created by dev team because we'll have to design them twice (Once in the game and another in BE). After a decent release version of a game is completed, I will figure out Battle Engine in depth and create a bridge to items as well as adding more synergy between BE and the game. For now I would prefer to focus on game code and content using just basic BE features.

Misc Slot:
 Will allow to equip one item that will give it's full effect after an item has been worn for a number of days. Basically the moment item is equipped, game starts to count days until a specified number is reached, than applies it's effect permanently and can be passed to a different girl or disappears.

Misc slot adds new fields:

Temp - (Optional) Duration Will default to 10 days.
Destruct - (Optional) Does the item disappear after number of days is reached. Defaults to false.
Reusable - (Optional) Blocks the item to be used for the same girl twice. Defaults to false.

Book for example might be set to:

Reusable: false
Destruct : false
Temp = 10

Pet might be set to:
Reusable: true
Destruct : false
Temp = 1



Item's Type will default to it's slot if not specified but is actually important in some places like weapons for example. This way BattleEngine bridge will be able to relay type of attack (Hit/Stab/Slash etc. and every attack in BE comes with it's own sound and modifier so it is fairly important)


   - Items should be stackable.
   - Shops should have locked inventories to be restocked once in 'x' number of days.


 We still need to decide if we want shops to look like they do in Alkion/OtherWorld or give them a retro look like in old FF games.
 Another issue is how to pass items to girls from player, do it in the girl profile screen or construct something like WM.
 What else do we need? This is still open for discussion and proposals.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2013, 01:43:29 PM by Xela »
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: SimBrothel: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #647 on: May 01, 2013, 11:16:44 AM »
Ok, so why 3 rings slots? Not 2, not 8 or 10, but precisely 3?  :)

About Add/Remove Effects string, maybe we eventually could use it for some rare healing armor or mp restoring amulet instead of creating a separate field for such effects?

Is it possible to create combat effects for a weapon by hit, like paralysis or poison with a certain probability?

What about hands? I remember there is "armband" item type in WM.

Since weapons can be one or two-handed, we probably need some kind of flag for that. And don't forget about shields, ie items that can be put in hands slot but you can't attack with them. Maybe even 2 shields at the same for low level mages for some extra protection?

I'm also not sure about weapon types names. If by dagger you mean piercing type of damage, then let's just use D&D classification: bludgeoning, piercing and slashing. Otherwise we'll have a spear of dagger type or a scythe of sword type. Kinda counterintuitive, I think.

What do you think about ranged weapons: crossbows, bows, maybe even guns or beam/other hi-tech weapons? I remember you mentioned FF7-like technological level, so...

Pet might be set to:
Reusable: true
Destruct : false
Temp = 1
I like the idea, sounds interesting. However, I think that Reusable string is overkill. The only game I know which remember such things is Sims, and its save files are really huge and long time to load.

We still need to decide if we want shops to look like they do in Alkion/OtherWorld or give them a retro look like in old FF games.
 Another issue is how to pass items to girls from player, do it in the girl profile screen or construct something like WM.
Well, I don't know about the others, but I never used WM option of buying items on behalf of a girl. It's too much trouble, much easier and quicker to give her an item afterwards.
And since we are going to use icons, we probably should create the appropriate interface. WM items don't have them, after all.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 11:54:43 AM by DarkTl »

Offline Xela

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Re: SimBrothel: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #648 on: May 01, 2013, 02:53:22 PM »
Ok, so why 3 rings slots? Not 2, not 8 or 10, but precisely 3?  :)

I was trying to imagine what the equipment screen would look like in my head so I went with three slots for rings and three slots on the belt. No other reason, we can make it into 2, 8 or 10.

Not mentioning that 'Бог Любит Троицу' :)

About Add/Remove Effects string, maybe we eventually could use it for some rare healing armor or mp restoring amulet instead of creating a separate field for such effects?

We could but I wasn't planning any items except for misc slot to have such abilities. But it is possible as you suggest.

Is it possible to create combat effects for a weapon by hit, like paralysis or poison with a certain probability?

Possible without a doubt but that would require modifications to battle engine and additional bridge coding. That is exactly the sort of thing I wanted to avoid before first release of PyTFall is complete.

What about hands? I remember there is "armband" item type in WM.

We could add it, it doesn't make that much of a difference either way.

Since weapons can be one or two-handed, we probably need some kind of flag for that. And don't forget about shields, ie items that can be put in hands slot but you can't attack with them. Maybe even 2 shields at the same for low level mages for some extra protection?

The thing is that I see no point in this before I twist and tweak BE to be in sync with PyTFall. It's all about balance, if we create to many slots, it might become to difficult to properly balance the items for the release. Right now BE bridge will only try to determine what KIND of attack to use based on Type of a weapon equipped, weapon bonus will simply be relayed through Strength otherwise.

Also this is prolly an overkill for game that will focus on Hentai and Management more than on RPG. This is a decent idea for Alkion.

I'm also not sure about weapon types names. If by dagger you mean piercing type of damage, then let's just use D&D classification: bludgeoning, piercing and slashing. Otherwise we'll have a spear of dagger type or a scythe of sword type. Kinda counterintuitive, I think.

Ok, so basically we are talking about adding an extra field to weapons slot that determines the type of an attack? We can do that, prolly a better way. This is needed for the battle engine bridge and will determine type of physical attack (sound played and damage modifier).

What do you think about ranged weapons: crossbows, bows, maybe even guns or beam/other hi-tech weapons? I remember you mentioned FF7-like technological level, so...

We can add any amount of attacks, just change the sound and damage modifier, give them a new name in BE and make sure bridge recognizes that. But if you're talking about more difference between ranged and cc weapons than that, we would have to go with a different scheme for battle and that usually comes with a lot of extra work.

Battle engine we use is actually really powerful and we're using like 6 - 7% of it's total capabilities but the trouble is that the more of it you want to use, the more work you have to put into every map and battle scenario.

I like the idea, sounds interesting. However, I think that Reusable string is overkill. The only game I know which remember such things is Sims, and its save files are really huge and long time to load.

Book that can keep increasing girls skills is weird... It will not effect savefile sizes by the way, I cannot see why it would, it's just couple more variables for girls, we already have more than a 100 and saving works as well as it did when we had 10.

Basically I wanted Misc item to be the only one that can have 'per period' effects...


Well, I don't know about the others, but I never used WM option of buying items on behalf of a girl. It's too much trouble, much easier and quicker to give her an item afterwards.

Yeah, same here...

And since we are going to use icons, we probably should create the appropriate interface. WM items don't have them, after all.

But we can create an interface like in FF styled games as well. You know, one with blue screen, item names and amounts available in the shop. Item icon would appear when you choose one of the items together with all the info and how many you have in the inventory at the moment.

Other option is Alkion/OW style where you see all icons and get info when you click on one.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 03:13:30 PM by Xela »
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: SimBrothel: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #649 on: May 01, 2013, 04:08:55 PM »
Not mentioning that 'Бог Любит Троицу' :)
Haha, I see. Ok, let it be 3  :D

We could add it, it doesn't make that much of a difference either way.
I guess we can live without them. We already have additional cape and ring slots.

We can add any amount of attacks, just change the sound and damage modifier, give them a new name in BE and make sure bridge recognizes that. But if you're talking about more different between ranged and cc weapons than that, we would have to go with a different scheme for battle and that usually comes with a lot of extra work.
Well, usually the difference between ranged and melee weapons determines in which row character can attack. In back row you can only use ranged weapon, but you also have more defence there.

But if it means a lot of extra work, how about more D&D approach: melee weapons damage and accuracy are based on attack, ranged weapons damage and accuracy are based on, well, something else. Since we don't have dexterity, we could use agility or magic.

For hi-tech we could just use another sound and, for example, fire or electric type of damage based on intelligence.

Book that can keep increasing girls skills is weird...
Wrong, in such games skill book just disappears after reading  ;)

It will not effect savefile sizes by the way, I cannot see why it would, it's just couple more variables for girls, we already have more than a 100 and saving works as well as it did when we had 10.
If we have 10 books and 300 girls, it means 3000 new records eventually, isn't it? Imagine even more books and more girls.
But if you think it's ok, then it's ok. I never made a game before, after all.

Basically I wanted Misc item to be the only one that can have 'per period' effects...
Alright. Then maybe more misc slots, like two?

But we can create an interface like in FF styled games as well. You know, one with blue screen, item names and amounts available in the shop.
I'll think about it then. I do not mind any of them, maybe we should arrange a voting somewhere :)

And one more thing, what do you mean by "Concealed Weapon" slot?
« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 04:27:28 PM by DarkTl »

Offline Xela

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Re: SimBrothel: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #650 on: May 01, 2013, 06:29:59 PM »
Haha, I see. Ok, let it be 3  :D

Done.

Well, usually the difference between ranged and melee weapons determines in which row character can attack. In back row you can only use ranged weapon, but you also have more defence there.

But if it means a lot of extra work, how about more D&D approach: melee weapons damage and accuracy are based on attack, ranged weapons damage and accuracy are based on, well, something else. Since we don't have dexterity, we could use agility or magic.

For hi-tech we could just use another sound and, for example, fire or electric type of damage based on intelligence.

All of the above would require a good bit of coding. I suggest we leave the weapons and battle system as it is now and just add a couple of attacks and magic spells. Rest after the release version is complete. We'll have a discussion on it's concept design then.



If we have 10 books and 300 girls, it means 3000 new records eventually, isn't it? Imagine even more books and more girls.
But if you think it's ok, then it's ok. I never made a game before, after all.

Neither have I but I've just tested our system by generating a random string of 32 random unicode characters for every girl 3000 times and saved/loaded it. It saves/loads instantaneously so there is no need to worry. Nothing we come up with save the 3D graphics will break Python/RenPy so it is perfectly safe to make game mechanics as advanced as time and imagination permits.

I've also done similar testing right after I've started the project. These were the results:

Quote
For 2 000 000 interactions (around 400 000 girls in game), game crashes on next day.

For 200 000 interactions (around 40 000 girls in game), next day calculations take around 7 - 9 seconds. Saving takes 20 - 25 seconds.

For 20 000 interactions (around 4 000 girls in game), next day calculations take around 1 - 2 seconds. Saving takes 1 - 2 seconds as well.

For 2 000 interactions (a more realistic scenario of 400 girls in game), next day calculations and saving are instantaneous.

so we're reasonably safe until 5000 - 10000 girls (If you can find so many characters and care to make packs for them :D)

Alright. Then maybe more misc slots, like two?

Two misc items might be overpowering and difficult to balance out. It would not be difficult to arrange in any case.

I'll think about it then. I do not mind any of them, maybe we should arrange a voting somewhere :)

If we don't come up with an answer in the dev team, I'll start a voting pole...

And one more thing, what do you mean by "Concealed Weapon" slot?

Well, as we advance games code and content, we will add checks for items on acts. For example if a prostitute meets client with a mace equipped, act may never happen because customer would simply refuse to see the girl.

Concealed weapon is something that increases strength slightly but does not trigger such events. I thought WM had something like that...


Wrong, in such games skill book just disappears after reading  ;)

That depends on the game, I've seen it either way. My concern is girl being able to buy a book of same content and get the same stat increase over and over again, that is counter-intuitive... Once read and learned, a scroll or a book that has already increased girls stat by 5 points for example, should not be able to do so again and again.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 06:36:05 PM by Xela »
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: SimBrothel: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #651 on: May 02, 2013, 04:55:26 AM »
Concealed weapon is something that increases strength slightly but does not trigger such events.
I see. Yeah, WM has two types of weapons, "weapon" and "small weapon". Obviously, you can't hide a huge spear in contradistinction to a small dagger, while both of them are piercing type. So we either need a "concealed" flag or two separate weapon types, like in wm.

Offline Xela

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Re: SimBrothel: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #652 on: May 02, 2013, 05:28:26 AM »
I see. Yeah, WM has two types of weapons, "weapon" and "small weapon". Obviously, you can't hide a huge spear in contradistinction to a small dagger, while both of them are piercing type. So we either need a "concealed" flag or two separate weapon types, like in wm.

Good point, I'll change that slot to small weapon and we just agree that it can be concealed.


Anyone got anything to add???

I'll see if I can put in a couple of hours into coding tonight otherwise.
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Offline CherryWood

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Re: SimBrothel: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #653 on: May 02, 2013, 07:04:00 AM »
Sorry, something serious come in and I wasn't able to follow for a while


Anyone got anything to add???
Not really, it's more complicated then I thought it would be already  :)
Maybe upkeep cost for some special items?
And about the shops, I think both icon and FF styles are ok. I would probably choose together with the style of player/girls inventory so these would look alike.

Offline Xela

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Re: SimBrothel: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #654 on: May 02, 2013, 08:08:31 AM »
Sorry, something serious come in and I wasn't able to follow for a while

Not really, it's more complicated then I thought it would be already  :)
Maybe upkeep cost for some special items?
And about the shops, I think both icon and FF styles are ok. I would probably choose together with the style of player/girls inventory so these would look alike.

I would definitely prefer icon style for player inventory. It just looks better that way.

I considered upkeep already but I couldn't figure out a way to make it work. If you have to pay upkeep for items, player would have to keep an eye on his inventory all the time. That's a lot of micro and that's almost always a bad thing. If we agree that player only pays for upkeep of equipped items, it would be in turn hard to explain why is it necessary to pay for a rabbit/dog/cat when equipped by a girl and not when they are still just in inventory...

Also who pays for free girls items? They themselves or player and why would a player pay for something a girl bought for herself.

Upkeep raised to many questions that I couldn't find good answers for, so I decided to leave it out. If you can think of a fair and balanced approach, I'll gladly add it to concept and code it in.
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: SimBrothel: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #655 on: May 02, 2013, 09:15:58 AM »
Well, WM has Beast Masters, if I remember correctly job's name. It's not exactly the same type of a "beast" (I would prefer to avoid beast pictures category at all), but still the idea is interesting.
We could create a new occupation to care about animals or even maintaining all items which need a maintenance. Or we could just use service occupation for such things.

Still, can't say that we desperately need it, so it's up to you.

Offline Xela

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Re: SimBrothel: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #656 on: May 02, 2013, 09:20:38 AM »
Well, WM has Beast Masters, if I remember correctly job's name. It's not exactly the same type of a "beast" (I would prefer to avoid beast pictures category at all), but still the idea is interesting.
We could create a new occupation to care about animals or even maintaining all items which need a maintenance. Or we could just use service occupation for such things.

Still, can't say that we desperately need it, so it's up to you.

Not now anyway, there are many paths we can take in development, but for now girlsmeets, interaction, locations, basic jobs and items take priority.

========================================
Bah, I completely forgot one thing, I wanted to turn Jokers (if we are going to have those) into items as well. So I need to add another field that expands item effect on all girls in your employment.

Also maybe a temp field for consumables that would make sure that effects can wear off after a while?
« Last Edit: May 02, 2013, 10:12:45 AM by Xela »
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: SimBrothel: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #657 on: May 02, 2013, 10:51:41 AM »
Also maybe a temp field for consumables that would make sure that effects can wear off after a while?
It could be done via temporary traits, but if you think it'll be better way, why not.

Offline Xela

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Re: SimBrothel: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #658 on: May 03, 2013, 03:10:32 AM »
It could be done via temporary traits, but if you think it'll be better way, why not.

Yeah, but then one would have to design a trait for every effect, it's tiresome...

Plan for today is to lay out as many game concepts as possible to get everybody in sync with the project. Each in separate thread, I was wrong to say that coding should be done without a concept and I am not wasting another month on rewriting one bit of code 7 - 8 times and still not managing to finish it somehow. Items are going much better because there is a plan on paper...

One trap to avoid is not brainstorming on concepts to much as we did with Alkion cause that usually leads game astray.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2013, 04:37:39 AM by Xela »
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: SimBrothel: -PyTFall- Dev Thread: Writers needed!
« Reply #659 on: May 03, 2013, 05:09:45 AM »
Yeah, but then one would have to design a trait for every effect, it's tiresome...
If by the one you mean me, then it's not, I'll gladly continue to design as many of them as we need.