Author Topic: General Discussion  (Read 3821832 times)

0 Members and 35 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Armegetton

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 85
  • . . . . .
Re: General Discussion
« Reply #2130 on: March 09, 2014, 06:52:36 PM »
girlsmeets update.

clever compliments (general) added

(general) gifting for bad, good, and perfect gifts added.

All still needs updated logic for disposition changes.
This could be the end ...

Offline Xela

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6893
  • "It's like hunting cows"
Re: General Discussion
« Reply #2131 on: March 09, 2014, 07:09:44 PM »
girlsmeets update.

clever compliments (general) added

(general) gifting for bad, good, and perfect gifts added.

All still needs updated logic for disposition changes.

Great, I am falling asleep so it'll have to wait until tomorrow.

Edit:

I just grabbed your update. What disposition changes? It's already done when giving the gifts automatically.

Ah ok I got it. You can do those yourself, there are no hard rules to follow in disposition checks/rewards. Reward/penalty should be a bit higher than previous interaction in the menu, it's not really a rule but it would make sense.

Edit 2: I just pushed a small update of your code. You done have to set variables to result of dice 50 by the way either:

if dice(50):
    # Success
else:
    # Fail

will do the same thing.

My addition is not tested but it should work unless there are typos somewhere.

- Goodnight -
« Last Edit: March 09, 2014, 07:35:03 PM by Xela »
Like what we're doing?

Offline DarkTl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4737
Re: General Discussion
« Reply #2132 on: March 10, 2014, 02:39:24 AM »
Oh yeah, Ar Tonelico music makes the game much more lively  :)

Last we discussed this, we've also agreed to introduce something like this post 1.0?
No idea, I recall you mentioned a dungeon as an easter egg for the alpha.

Any new thoughts/ideas/questions?
Fix gifts for a start according to my explanation?  :D

Ok, I changed leprechaun sprite to leprechaun girl, I can tell you that the event is much less painful for my eyes now. And deleted duplicate item from gifts.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2014, 03:21:04 AM by DarkTl »

Offline Xela

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6893
  • "It's like hunting cows"
Re: General Discussion
« Reply #2133 on: March 10, 2014, 08:49:06 AM »
Ok, I changed leprechaun sprite to leprechaun girl, I can tell you that the event is much less painful for my eyes now. And deleted duplicate item from gifts.

I like that asshole... She can be his sister or something like that in the future.

Fix gifts for a start according to my explanation?  :D

Link me to the explanation please, I must have missed it.
Like what we're doing?

Offline DarkTl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4737
Re: General Discussion
« Reply #2134 on: March 10, 2014, 08:55:54 AM »
Lol, at the previous page.
Nope. It should be 40 instead of 30. And, as correctly noted Armegetton, it obviously should be 0 instead of 15 for Wild Flowers in case of Impersonal.

Offline Xela

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6893
  • "It's like hunting cows"
Re: General Discussion
« Reply #2135 on: March 10, 2014, 09:09:46 AM »
Lol, at the previous page.

Ok... so if girls has a matching trait, dismod should be ignored instead of having a stacking effect?

What about occupation field? Should it stack with traits bonuses?
Like what we're doing?

Offline CherryWood

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 643
Re: General Discussion
« Reply #2136 on: March 10, 2014, 09:10:57 AM »
 
Ok, I'll take a look at that now. Percentages are prolly ready... There is no way of telling for sure since traits are messing stuff up and I don't feel like creating dummies for testing. At least nothing is crashing.

May I ask for explanation how to use this (=what to write in girl file) ? I love the idea, wanna try that, but I know virtually nothing about what that really means or how skill caps work.
-------
Do you guys have any good source or method for creating girls descriptions in data.xml? I'm usually trying to stick it up from various wikis, but as these are usually not written to give a brief summary without story related stuff, it gives me a hard time and consume hours...

Offline DarkTl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4737
Re: General Discussion
« Reply #2137 on: March 10, 2014, 09:13:27 AM »
I like that asshole... She can be his sister or something like that in the future.
That's a problem, it's not easy to find a not ugly male leprechaun picture. This one seems too nice, this one somehow remindes me of trollface, this will not be easy to rip...
Maybe this or that one.

Offline DarkTl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4737
Re: General Discussion
« Reply #2138 on: March 10, 2014, 09:30:08 AM »
so if girls has a matching trait, dismod should be ignored instead of having a stacking effect?
Yup. It's more convenient to create gifts this way, instead of manual calculations you just set the outcome.

What about occupation field? Should it stack with traits bonuses?
Yup, like warrior (+30) and Iron Will (-40) should give -10 total.

May I ask for explanation how to use this (=what to write in girl file) ? I love the idea, wanna try that, but I know virtually nothing about what that really means or how skill caps work.
I dislike when you have to remember about some limitations all the time. We have hardcoded min and max values for stats, so if you write charisma 10000 for lvl 1 girl in data file, the game will rewrite it anyway. So instead I decided to use relative values.

Let's say, we have 50 charisma cap at lvl 1 (I don't remember actual cap, it's an example). So if you write charisma 50 in data file, it will be 50% of 50 = 25.
If you will set girl's initial level to 100 (right now we use exp field, but there will be more convenient level field in the future), her max charisma value will be, let's say, 300. Then her actual charisma will be 50% of 300 = 150.

Do you guys have any good source or method for creating girls descriptions in data.xml? I'm usually trying to stick it up from various wikis
I use wikis as well, usually I just find a couple of lines briefly describing the girl and copy them  :)

Offline Xela

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6893
  • "It's like hunting cows"
Re: General Discussion
« Reply #2139 on: March 10, 2014, 10:15:23 AM »
I particularly liked Dark's percentages idea because we can change hardcaps freely that way for balancing purposes and nothing in girl files would have to be changed.

As for descriptions, it's a matter of personal preference. I loved some personally written descs in WM but other were downright stupid. Wiki's usually carry to much info from the show. I usually tried to get some fix on girls personality from the wikis and roll with that when making packs.

=================
Ok, I think I understood the gifts concept, I'll fix it tonight.

=================
I started to talk about EE/BE because even if we decide to put it in after 1.0, having some form of endgoal now would be of a great help to me as I often read articles on programming, code from other games, tips and tricks and examples. That would give me something to focus on.

There are many good ways to implement Exploration in Ren'Py type of engine, they all have their own advantages and disadvantages, so I just would like to have some sort of a consensus on a system, discuss it's weaknesses, strengths and try to split the total workload so we all could slowly put in some time in it and so it at least seems doable.



==
thanks
I mean, after that Miku in main menu and especially if a cosplayer of Misa Amane can make it into the game as a beggar... (seriously  ::) ) I'm kinda surprised something like this can cause any objections  :) 

The cosplayer gotta go... longint said something about grabbing first pic he could find for a placeholder. See if you can find a better beggar? + You know how to replace sprites yourself.

What's the problem with Miku girl by the way? I know nothing about her but her dance in gif seemed useful for main-menu... I also think that Rukia/Orichime in the options look really well.

Just for the record, I've said it before... if anyone has any ideas for interface/menus/sprites and etc, let me know. Last option for leprechaun is not bad by the way but just like CW, I cannot understand Dark's issue with the current one.
Like what we're doing?

Offline CherryWood

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 643
Re: General Discussion
« Reply #2140 on: March 10, 2014, 10:45:32 AM »
The cosplayer gotta go... longint said something about grabbing first pic he could find for a placeholder. See if you can find a better beggar? + You know how to replace sprites yourself.

What's the problem with Miku girl by the way? I know nothing about her but her dance in gif seemed useful for main-menu... I also think that Rukia/Orichime in the options look really well.

Ok, if that's a placeholder, than it's fine, I was kinda worried if not  :) .  I'll replace it if I see something, thanks.
About Miku, the pic has a bad quality, that's all.  I don't really understand the purpose of having dancing girls in menus, but If you like it, I'll just fix it a little.

Offline DarkTl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4737
Re: General Discussion
« Reply #2141 on: March 10, 2014, 10:49:07 AM »
Just for the record, I've said it before... if anyone has any ideas for interface/menus/sprites and etc, let me know. Last option for leprechaun is not bad by the way but just like CW, I cannot understand Dark's issue with the current one.
Too cartoonish. All those high quality backgrounds and girls, then bam - low quality sprite. It hurts me aesthetically.
I pushed a new sprite for him, his "sister" picture is in my db for now.

Do we really need initial stats settings for MC? I'd prefer to chose class (in the future some facts from prehistory as well).

I started to talk about EE/BE because even if we decide to put it in after 1.0, having some form of endgoal now would be of a great help to me
Hard to say. As much as I like our forest (easy to make too), the number of forest backgrounds is limited enough (unless we'll use real ones).
Alkion version = Kamidori. Not too original, but clean concept.
Your version is basically a trpg, for example like Final Fantasy Tactic Advance or Fire Emblem.

I guess we'll use tiles for EE in one way or another anyway.
As for BE, if we'll use your/Alkion approach, shouldn't we teach AI how to move on the map, avoid obstacles, approach at the correct distance? Whether there are ready-made algorithms, or it means 2 additional years of coding?  :)
« Last Edit: March 10, 2014, 10:51:36 AM by DarkTl »

Offline Xela

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6893
  • "It's like hunting cows"
Re: General Discussion
« Reply #2142 on: March 10, 2014, 01:18:40 PM »
Do we really need initial stats settings for MC? I'd prefer to chose class (in the future some facts from prehistory as well).

It'll do for the @, what we do after that is open to discussion. You sent me some decent example of a game where character was built of pre-game events for example or there are plenty other ways to go.

As much as I like our forest (easy to make too), the number of forest backgrounds is limited enough (unless we'll use real ones).

Forest is not that much easier to make than other options. Backgrounds don't all have to be different either and there are plenty to go around. Workload would mostly consist of scripting events, designing tiles in json (backgrounds, events, possibilities, encounters, mobs, drops, terrain, teleportation and etc.) and looking for more backgrounds. Not mentioning that we also have mountains, beach, other cities, villages, roads and who knows what else. It's not really limited to any specific terrain type. We could have some form of teleportation setup so hero can run the brothels while exploring or just leave matron to run business as well.

Pros:
- Uses our BE for encounters with all resources and any further work that we put in it for the Arena and any other on scene encounters
- Very easy to randomize
- Easy to explain
- Can use insane amount of VN functionality
- Possible to build the whole world around it

Cons:
- No "real" tiled dungeon exploration
- Fairly simple design
- Relatively large workload for something simple
- Maps would have to be built in json as well or a custom software would have to be built for this

Alkion version = Kamidori. Not too original, but clean concept.

Yeap, uses Python code to cut a map from auto-tiles... attacks are animations built on a separate pop-up screen.

Pros:
- Randomization is not very hard to achieve

Cons:
- I'll have to port our resources made for Jake's BE into pop-up animated screen
- Maps are built in text (like literally txt) files.

Your version is basically a trpg, for example like Final Fantasy Tactic Advance or Fire Emblem.

Pros:
- Uses the same resources as the Arena/Encounter BE
- Works off mature mechanics compared to Alkion's BE allowing to create maps from different tile layouts and even 3D tiles

Cons:
- Much harder to randomize, especially will be weird if we use pretty maps for custom and simple for random
- Those mature mechanics come at a price of more complicated code than Alkions version


I guess we'll use tiles for EE in one way or another anyway.
As for BE, if we'll use your/Alkion approach, shouldn't we teach AI how to move on the map, avoid obstacles, approach at the correct distance? Whether there are ready-made algorithms, or it means 2 additional years of coding?  :)

There are plenty of ways to go, not just the three above.

There are EE options without tiles. For example an overhead map/chain of maps of large areas like in Alkion. Basically we have made a decision for BE already I think... Now we need to figure out:

E = Exploration
D = Dungeons

and make it all seem like parts of one whole and intuitive design. It'll take a long while I think, especially with all the normal Sim functionality we have planned that has priority and the code review.


Another important topic is Map building if we decide to go with something that uses tiles:

1) Map layout:
- Tile layout, often built from different tilesets
- Logic layout, more info for the tiles (walkable, trap, special and so on)
- Unit layout, enemy, items, event placement

2) Tilesets:
- There are many different ways of building maps from tiles. There are many tile layouts as well...
- Auto-tiles (RPG Maker type) that use very simple sprite that is then cut in tiny bits to make large number of complex patterns
- Scenery

3) Data:
- Software like Tiled is used to create a map
- Maps (and their layers) are created in plain text in txt/json/xml formats
- Some form of software that can write into those files is used to create maps from pre-determined types


========================
Logic for BE is another topic for discussion... I don't know how long will all take since I've never coded something like that before. AI logic for some reason does not seem to complicated to me but maybe I just don't see all the variables yet.
Like what we're doing?

Offline DarkTl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4737
Re: General Discussion
« Reply #2143 on: March 10, 2014, 02:18:26 PM »
Well, we don't have to choose something one. Originally we were going to use simple tilesets together with VN forest.
Thus, we could use VN functionality and tile software.

Even if we use tilesets, we'll need forest type EE anyway, I think. Because we cannot build the whole world in tile editor, it's too time consuming.

Offline Xela

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6893
  • "It's like hunting cows"
Re: General Discussion
« Reply #2144 on: March 10, 2014, 02:24:29 PM »
Well, we don't have to choose something one. Originally we were going to use simple tilesets together with VN forest.
Thus, we could use VN functionality and tile software.

Even if we use tilesets, we'll need forest type EE anyway, I think. Because we cannot build the whole world in tile editor, it's too time consuming.

True... but like I've said, it would be nice to know the direction early.

I fixed gifts (the whole thing was heavily bugged by the way, tis strange that noone has noticed). I'll push that and see if I can find something else to hack at.

Edit:

- Occupation field in gifts json renamed to occupations
- Fixed bonus being added from all traits regardless if girl has them or not when giving gifts
- Fixed the player to be able giving gifts even at 0 AP
- Slightly recoded gift bonuses logic per Dark's design
« Last Edit: March 10, 2014, 02:28:23 PM by Xela »
Like what we're doing?