General Discussion

[Xela]

(or even less stats than we have now as I seriously think that presence of intelligence, character and charisma is debatable) and use mainly traits.

BTW:

This should be #1 topic for debate at the moment. Specifically character and partly intelligence. We have traits that cover those so it's basically doing the same thing twice in a sh!tty way since stats often do not match the traits after 200 - 300 days in the game.

I've started #2 topic (ST) in a separate thread and will post some ideas on it shortly.

[crazydave]

Jumping into the discussion a little late, but my opinion regarding stats and traits is this.


Too many stats like Whoremaster get annoying micromanaging, especially when Obedience, Spirit, Love, Finances, Tiredness, all COMBINED with TRAITS AS WELL, influence the stat you care about Rebelliousness.


In that system I would prefer something more simple that was more reliant on traits.


Too few stats like Otherworld don't give you many options.  Health covers Health, Tiredness, Fitness, Constitution.  The "effect" of love just adds +1 Obedience per turn.


In that system, it would help to have traits that personalized each girl.




So what I'm trying to say is, 8-10 stats are good and necessary to display the generic information you need to know.  But the girls should display their unique qualities through traits, not random numbers.  In my opinion you don't need a BDSM "stat" you can simply have 4 tiers of traits.  Like Slavemaster 3 does.


Tier 0: The girl has no skill or desire for BDSM.  (The same as 0/100 in a stat)
Tier 1: The girl is alright with it. (25/100)
Tier 2: The girl is good at it. (50/100)
Tier 3: The girl is great at it. (75/100)
Tier 4: The girl is awesome at it. (100/100)


Instead of grinding the skill points each action, the system could simply have a chance at an event each time which might raise her skill.  Maybe if you want to reduce RNG, add a counter that adds an additional 1% chance to trigger each time the skill is used that resets once the event is triggered.


This way instead of having a list of 50 stats and numbers, you have 8-10 stats which are general "need to know" information, and you have her traits/skills which are more summarized "at a glance".


That's how I'd do it if I was creating a game.

[CherryWood]

Did you assign chr to the girl? This is before chr is set for the girlsmeets so unless you have something like $ chr = entry, it will not work. Or you can just auto-replace all chr with entry so it reads:

Code: [Select]

if entry.has_image(...):
    bla bla bla

Thanks, with this, it selects the images I wanted.
But in the end it's good for nothing, as the image is changed every time I hover over any button or reenter the screen. I guess it was a pretty stupid idea to put something randomized into screen definition 


btw. that akabur's game really is fun.

[DarkTl]

It is fun, too bad it is not finished completely, no final scene with Lola for example, dammit.
It is also interesting thanks to multiple interactive activities and dialogues, as well as good writing. I enjoyed it even despite the fact that I dislike such type of drawing.

But it is a linear VN quest. It's not even a brothel simulator, and we aiming for something bigger (since brothels won't be mandatory).
Unless you know someone who will write for us about the same amout of texts and events for every girl (or at least for every trait and their combinations), in which case I don't mind 

[Xela]

Unless you know someone who will write for us about the same amout of texts and events for every girl (or at least for every trait and their combinations), in which case I don't mind 

We don't need 'em for every girl, just relevant traits.

Thanks, with this, it selects the images I wanted.
But in the end it's good for nothing, as the image is changed every time I hover over any button or reenter the screen. I guess it was a pretty stupid idea to put something randomized into screen definition 

Far from stupid, it will be a shitty mess if done as a part show method itself so your way is likely the best way of doing it, you just need to prevent the code from running every time screen is being redrawn.

Set this as girl's individual flag:

Code: [Select]

if not entry.flag("beach_tags") or entry.flag("beach_tags")[0] < day:
    # ...your entire choice code here, it should end with:
    $ entry.set_flag("beach_tags", (day, random.choice(citybeach_tags_list))) # instead of:
    # $ citybeach_tags = random.choice(citybeach_tags_list)

use r_lightbutton(img=entry.show(*entry.flag("beach_tags")[1], label_cache=True, resize=(300, 400)), return_value=['jump', entry])
Not tested but this should work (or at least a variant of this should work if I made a typo somewhere).

[Xela]

...

That's pretty much what I've meant, obscuring stats is optional but having stats for stuff we already express with traits really well is messy and difficult to work with.


----------
Also:

Someone has suggested that we do something about charisma (beauty) stat. It's kind of lame when you have a super pretty picture of a girl and she has a charisma of 30 while another girl who already has a level of 50 has charisma of 150.

We could turn charisma into another static stat with fixed min and max like disposition or luck that cannot be risen with the level ups? What do you guys think?

[lamoli]

Too many stats like Whoremaster get annoying micromanaging, especially when Obedience, Spirit, Love, Finances, Tiredness, all COMBINED with TRAITS AS WELL, influence the stat you care about Rebelliousness.

Better make both and on config menu to chose if you like micro management or not..

personally the more complex ( with explanation.. on how stat works unlike WM ) the better

making them do what you want by either training em in obedience or breaking their spirit ( maybe more for slaves than free girls ) or love/hate (talking to them/going out/events) or even making them fear and obey you even if they hate you....

[Xela]

Better make both and on config menu to chose if you like micro management or not..

Not doable with a small team, one way needs to be chosen.

[lamoli]

Not doable with a small team, one way needs to be chosen.

understandable..

Since i liked girl stats/traits/jobs of WM and simbro (sibrx version) girl management/interactions/tree skills/perks/building managements
and looked like you where possibly planing to use the otherworld outffiting/body dummy option in the future

im watching your project closely hoping it will end up even better...

[Xela]

and looked like you where possibly planing to use the otherworld outffiting/body dummy option in the future

I don't expect that it will be difficult to code but with the amount of items/girls that we have in the game... amount of content required is absurd.

[CherryWood]

We could turn charisma into another static stat with fixed min and max like disposition or luck that cannot be risen with the level ups? What do you guys think?

Charisma stat, in the meaning of physical appearance (=beauty), doesn't make much sense as something you can learn. Girl just grow to be like that (represented with traits like "great figure") or not. Same with intelligence.
But it can also mean "presence", or "charm" which is something that can be improved by training (learning how to speak, how to pose, keep yourself well-groomed, dress with style, how to keep your composure, something from psychology...etc.).
But that is pretty much covered with refinement (stylish part) or character (intimidating part) stats...




heh, there are even games where you can choose what "style" a girls is pursuing, like "sexy", "cute", "cool"... 


seriously no idea...


Wouldn't it be better to think about it (and also that slave-training) from the other side? Think about some job events and then what stat/trait/something those event's could use?


Like, from situation when some ugly/dirty/rude comes to a brother, it's obvious that we need some torelance/obedience/pride stat or traits (we have a few like that) to know if a girls is willing to deal with them or not.

[Xela]

Wouldn't it be better to think about it (and also that slave-training) from the other side? Think about some job events and then what stat/trait/something those event's could use?

My point exactly...

PS: Tell me if girl flags work out in the screen when you get that done.

[CherryWood]

PS: Tell me if girl flags work out in the screen when you get that done.

Just did that and it seems to be working!


Now I need to try it on other locations and tag a few girls to test how it's look... may take a while


Then I probably look at buidings, gms or finishing haruhi pack.

[DarkTl]

This should be #1 topic for debate at the moment. Specifically character and partly intelligence. We have traits that cover those so it's basically doing the same thing twice in a sh!tty way since stats often do not match the traits after 200 - 300 days in the game.

and

Tier 0: The girl has no skill or desire for BDSM.  (The same as 0/100 in a stat)
Tier 1: The girl is alright with it. (25/100)
Tier 2: The girl is good at it. (50/100)
Tier 3: The girl is great at it. (75/100)
Tier 4: The girl is awesome at it. (100/100)

are basically Valet approach, where you see not numbers, but approximate text description of the current stat value. I don't mind it, even though it will require considerable amount of work to change our system this way.

We don't need 'em for every girl, just relevant traits.

I hope you are not going to copy "slave training" from that game. There you just grind gold and then spend it in the slave training school, it hardly could be called an actual training. By yourself you only decrease princess's popularity.

Someone has suggested that we do something about charisma (beauty) stat. It's kind of lame when you have a super pretty picture of a girl and she has a charisma of 30 while another girl who already has a level of 50 has charisma of 150.

We could turn charisma into another static stat with fixed min and max like disposition or luck that cannot be risen with the level ups? What do you guys think?

If you suggest us to set girls beauty according to our preferences by 100-point scale, it will be one big subjective mess.
There are also things like dresses, makeups and perfumes that should increase beauty even for already beautiful characters.

heh, there are even games where you can choose what "style" a girls is pursuing, like "sexy", "cute", "cool"... 

Maybe something along these lines... Then again, it's quite subjective, but not as subjective as 100-point charisma scale or something.

[Xela]

andare basically Valet approach, where you see not numbers, but approximate text description of the current stat value. I don't mind it, even though it will require considerable amount of work to change our system this way.

Obscuring stats is easy, it's already done with dirt in the brothel. I am not sure it adds value to the game and if we go that way, I'd like something better than average/good/great/awesome.

I hope you are not going to copy "slave training" from that game. There you just grind gold and then spend it in the slave training school, it hardly could be called an actual training. By yourself you only decrease princess's popularity.

No, I said the concept with adaptation to PyTFall's realities. Event driven instead of stats driven.

If you suggest us to set girls beauty according to our preferences by 100-point scale, it will be one big subjective mess.
There are also things like dresses, makeups and perfumes that should increase beauty even for already beautiful characters.
Maybe something along these lines... Then again, it's quite subjective, but not as subjective as 100-point charisma scale or something.

Forget about "subjective messes", it's not really applicable since 90% of stuff in the game is debatable from perfectly logical viewpoints. You have an issue with calling a girl cute for example, I don't. We just need to set the concept and work with it.

Stats are a very serious issue, especially from development perspective, they often repeat traits and consume insane amount of time to balance but have/will have purpose in future, like intelligence stat is currently being used only for guard even where an intelligent girl can find a way to resolve the situation peacefully. However in the future, we'll have stuff like Alchemy, maybe scrolls and it can find a very realistic uses there for example.

Charisma is already being used all over the place so getting rid of it will take time as it is... also it may be used for requests.

Basically whatever we do with the stats, we need to consider and review from all angles before we make a final decision.