Author Topic: General Discussion  (Read 3821805 times)

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Offline Xela

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3015 on: July 31, 2014, 01:50:49 PM »
But those icons are cool and pretty  :)
Maybe we at least could just use them in exploration gui somewhere.

Well then, let's discuss a new meeting system concept little by little.
1) Since we divide dating and meeting, MC's goal during meetings is to either hire a girl or become her friend and then proceed to hiring or dating.
Initially you could hire only low lvl, poor characters that don't have a job. Maybe you also need at least 50-100 disposition before they agree. In order to hire high lvl ones you need to achieve friend status (let's say, 500 disposition) and then ask them to join you.
So we need levels, and not only random ones for rgirls. We need them in girls data files too.

2) After achieving friend status you should know where a girl lives (I have some backgrounds for girls rooms in my db), so you can find her anytime without having to rely on chance. I guess it should look like a list of girls called notebook or something.
In the future friend status should mean that you have some limited access to girl's inventory as well.

2) Initial impression. Depending on MC's stats, initial disposition could be higher than 0. For example, id= (charisma+refinement)/4 or something like that.

Moreover, various girls traits may lower id. For example, shy/dandere could have lower id not because they dislike MC, but because it's harder to gain their trust in general. I believe it could be easily achieved by adding mod disposition in traits files.

Any thoughts so far?

I'll second all of the above, less texts (AA2 style) + more actions/info should be a wise approach. CW is working on something as well, I'd appreciate a concept and resources first, before starting recoding gms.

Dates should really be similar to AA2 as well I think, a nice screen transition (maybe some background) and a result reported in short text. Our dating mech is far more advanced but still feels inferior to that for some reason (at least to me). We can have more structured dates as unique events in the future.

About other more creative suggestions.
Maybe also add something like a stat window in a classic date-sim game. Where the player could check the affection towards the MC by the girls that the MC already met? Also a “go visit” button could be in there, allowing visiting the girls home.
 
And question:
Are you guys thinking of forcing a free, met girl to do what you want? I’m asking about raping and kidnapping her into slavery (something like: “The punch to the stomach cut her lights out. You dragged her to your place”).

Window should be doable without too much fuss, I am just not sure about how much info we should put there.

And question:
Are you guys thinking of forcing a free, met girl to do what you want? I’m asking about raping and kidnapping her into slavery (something like: “The punch to the stomach cut her lights out. You dragged her to your place”).

Maybe, but there should be consequences and those are usually a pain to code in. Basically the answer is prolly yes, but not any time soon.

==============================
I've successfully added the guild to the ND screen , in the future we'll have something like: Warriors, ServiceGirls (any service industry, except sex oriented), Industrial (when we have girls+jobs that create something) and Sex Ind. to replace the classes we have now. Otherwise, the concept proposed by CW for the ND summary screen is (imo) really, really good and will work for as for a long time :)

I have a splitting headache for no good reason, but if that goes away, I'll continue advancing the guilds code.

If someone wants to add some more locations to json, feel free to do so, might be good for testing.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 01:54:46 PM by Xela »
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Offline MrKlaus

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3016 on: July 31, 2014, 02:57:18 PM »
Window should be doable without too much fuss, I am just not sure about how much info we should put there.

 I basically though about something like a status bar, just to give track of the to the player. In order: girls avatar, bar showing how much she likes/dislikes the MC, more info button, visit button.
 
The more info button. It could an individual info about girls likes and dislikes. The information could come from giving her various things or for example from a shady information dealer with an attitude “Hey mister. If you ever need something I will get the info for the right price.” Also could contain info about the jobs that the girl would be willing to do. But probably we will drop this, being too much pain in the ass to code.
 

Offline CherryWood

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3017 on: July 31, 2014, 03:01:04 PM »
Heh, I should really try that AA2 if you praise it that much - but I'm worried that it will keep me from doing anything else for a while, like any other game where you can design characters  :D
I was just removing/adding lines to the current girlmeets, without changing the code. But that can wait for any day.


=================


@DarkTl


I'm sorry, that this is too vague concept for me to comment on. Because I believe that the 1) and 3) can be added to current girlmeet by just adding a new formula to hire and introduction labels and 2) sound like dates we planned for interactions anyway.


We all know what the gms look like now. Requirements for Hiring is disposition and that is gained by spending AP, or AP + money (faster) or AP + gifts (fastest in case of good gifts), with MC's charisma providing a bonus. With most of the options being only a different text answers.


So If we really want to split the hiring/seducing part, then I think we need to add some new system for hiring (based on something else, like different stat or so), otherwise it's just removing some of the options from it, and that would be kinda meaningless.


Offline MrKlaus

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3018 on: July 31, 2014, 03:20:13 PM »
So If we really want to split the hiring/seducing part, then I think we need to add some new system for hiring (based on something else, like different stat or so), otherwise it's just removing some of the options from it, and that would be kinda meaningless.

 For the new system. Maybe it could be a three-part system. In general there would be three status bars for the girl. First, the love bar displaying how much she is in love with the MC. Second, disposition, displaying what she thinks about him in general (good impression of him or if he is a total douche bag). The third would be a job bar, displaying how much she is interesting in working for the MC.
 
The trick in this system is, that any “love” interactions that the MC do, would lower the working bar, but boost the love and maybe a small increase to the disposition. On the other hand when the MC would be talking with her about hiring her, the love bar would be going down. Also there should be some point, let’s assume for now, if the girls love bar hits 75% it’s stay that way and doesn’t get lower when he is talking with her about working for him.
 

Offline CherryWood

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3019 on: July 31, 2014, 03:42:14 PM »
For the new system. Maybe it could be a three-part system.
This is actually almost exactly what I meaned by "persuasion" in that concept I posted a few pages ago  :)  So I thought that this could be a good way to do it, but I was not able to come with a set of meaningful stats that could work with it. I suppose things like MC's reputation, wealth, business fame, relationship with organisations/important npc and such would be great for this, but they simply doesn't exist in the game atm (only arena rep for warriors). Same goes for negotiation on work conditions, nothing like that is even planned I believe. And, like I wrote in the post above your, just adding "persuade to work" AP to points button without anything else taken into account feels too bland.


But I would still support this idea. One of the pointed problems in alpha test was that the disposition is too easily gained in girlmeets and then carried over to brothel where it's suddenly very hard to manage, and this separate work and disposition bar would make balancing that much easier.


But I contribute the least amount of work from the dev team, so it's not on me to decide  :)


========
Ok, I started downloading AA2, will take a while. But I looked at the translation files in meantime and they're easy to copypaste like in AA1, so we can shamelessly steal some again if needed  8)   (I taken some lines from Kancolle, Love Live! and IM@S games lately, unless a writer join, copying it's the best I can do, as my own writing is terribad)
« Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 04:43:23 PM by CherryWood »

Offline Marquis

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3020 on: July 31, 2014, 05:25:41 PM »
I'm not sure I see a difference between a hate/love continuum and the extremes of a disposition continuum. If disposition goes from -100 to +100, then -90 or less could be hate and 90+ could be love.


A couple more factors for the hiring interaction could be how desperate the girl is (maybe based on how much gold she has or if she has another job already) and the salary offered compared to what she thinks she's worth (could be modified by traits like self-confident or meek).


If a simple guard job has a base salary of 100, a higher level warrior might expect 150, and even then only be willing to take it if she's feeling desperate or really likes the MC.


So, there are four parameters for hiring: how much she likes the MC (modified by MC stats like charisma, wealth, rank, etc.); how much is offered compared to what she thinks a job is worth; her desired jobs- you might have to offer many warriors a fortune to be a prostitute or even a service girl; and how desperate she is - if a warrior has no gold or job, maybe they will take a service job for a while, but will quit after earning a bit unless disposition is built up quickly.

Offline CherryWood

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3021 on: July 31, 2014, 05:39:59 PM »
I'm not sure I see a difference between a hate/love continuum and the extremes of a disposition continuum. If disposition goes from -100 to +100, then -90 or less could be hate and 90+ could be love.
If basically just a flag, but it should be more stable then just using disposition stat number. For example if one day girl disposition is 91, the second 89, then 91 again and so on, using just 90+ to determine lover will cause that the girl will not have a relationship with you every other day. We want it to be more stable - "joy" in game already works like that when determining when the free girl will leave your service - not just by being distressed for an instant (joy suddenly dropped) but when she is unhappy for a number of days in a row (so you have a chance for a while to raise her joy to prevent it)


And if I'm correct, wage is calculated every single day from girl stats now, so we can't use absolute numbers there, but maybe the girl may ask for a higher percentage of it? There was a slider for that...


@Xela? May I ask you about it? What our options with wages are, I never worked with that part of code...
« Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 05:53:04 PM by CherryWood »

Offline Xela

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3022 on: July 31, 2014, 05:54:04 PM »
========
Ok, I started downloading AA2, will take a while. But I looked at the translation files in meantime and they're easy to copypaste like in AA1, so we can shamelessly steal some again if needed  8)   (I taken some lines from Kancolle, Love Live! and IM@S games lately, unless a writer join, copying it's the best I can do, as my own writing is terribad)

- Download the game
- Install the HF DLC collection patch
- Install the HF patch

I threw some chars in the DB folder that are set up to be easily convinced to do lewd stuff. Also there are some girls baring likelihood to chars from Naruto/Bleach/Fairy Tail/OMGs/Avatar/DBZ and etc. You'll need hair expansion pack for some or they'll have different hair styles.

This may save you some time figuring stuff out.
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Offline Xela

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3023 on: July 31, 2014, 05:56:07 PM »
And if I'm correct, wage is calculated every single day from girl stats now, so we can't use absolute numbers there, but maybe the girl may ask for a higher percentage of it? There was a slider for that...

@Xela? May I ask you about it? What our options with wages are, I never worked with that part of code...

Asking for a higher wage is prolly doable and shouldn't be too hard but may be an overkill. Wages are stats/class related, yes.

Edit:
SF Updated:

- Fixed Ren'Py crashing every now and again as the game is starting
- Added guild to the Next Day screen (Will only show up after it is bought at the realtor)
- Fixed a couple of minor bugs/typos

+ City map updated as well.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 10:35:26 PM by Xela »
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3024 on: August 01, 2014, 04:52:46 AM »
Are you guys thinking of forcing a free, met girl to do what you want? I’m asking about raping and kidnapping her into slavery (something like: “The punch to the stomach cut her lights out. You dragged her to your place”).
The problem here is what's coming next, after you kidnapped and raped her. You can't just let her go. We need a decent, interesting yet not too complicated dungeon/slavetraining system here. And unfortunately none of us was able to come up even with vague concept. If you can, be my guest.

I guess you could do it with low lvl poor low fame girl and then just release her, and no one will give a sh#t. But we can't really make a whole new system only for low lvl ones, it's a waste of time.

Dates should really be similar to AA2 as well I think, a nice screen transition (maybe some background) and a result reported in short text. Our dating mech is far more advanced but still feels inferior to that for some reason (at least to me). We can have more structured dates as unique events in the future.
Well, in wm dates don't even have a black screen, just some text and very simple scripts.
First person dates, with choices and dialogues, require five times more lines than the whole game already has. They won't be interesting otherwise. So we have to work with scripts again.

I'm thinking about choosing the initial conditions, like when and where to go, what gift to bring, what to talk about in general, how to behave, etc. Also mood of characters, like in AA. Then we have a black screen or something and a report. Maybe h-pictures if it goes smoothly.

I'm sorry, that this is too vague concept for me to comment on.
That's why I said little by little  :)
We should discuss basics before moving forward.

For the new system. Maybe it could be a three-part system. In general there would be three status bars for the girl. First, the love bar displaying how much she is in love with the MC. Second, disposition, displaying what she thinks about him in general (good impression of him or if he is a total douche bag). The third would be a job bar, displaying how much she is interesting in working for the MC.
Sound interesting. We could do it if Xela will agree to add more values, he tends to avoid new stats lately.
Basically, in AA friendship and love are different systems too. Characters could be best friends without romance, and vice versa.
The job bar could be useful for hired girls too, showing how much they want to work for MC regardless love and disposition. For example, when MC forces a best friend nonservicegirl to clean establishment, it mostly should decrease the job bar. And eventually she will quit not because they ceased to be friends.

While disposition goes from -1000 to 1000, where less than -400 probably means enemy and less than -900 something like unforgivable from AA, love and job bars could go from 0 to 1000.

And if I'm correct, wage is calculated every single day from girl stats now, so we can't use absolute numbers there, but maybe the girl may ask for a higher percentage of it? There was a slider for that...
If we'll have the job bar, you could adjust the slider by yourself to make sure girls won't quit. We could throw a warning when the bar becomes too small, for example the girl comes to you and complains about conditions of work, or your assistant tells you that she looks for a new job.

Offline Xela

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3025 on: August 01, 2014, 07:57:48 AM »
Sound interesting. We could do it if Xela will agree to add more values, he tends to avoid new stats lately.

Because we have too many, it is hell to work with them. The job thing can be a derivative that is calculated on the spot though.

Did you see the new mock up of the OldHuntsman game in Ren'Py? I've implemented a similar map system, takes a bit of getting used to but it's better than what we had. That game may turn out really, really well, if they don't go ballistic on gore sh!t again, seems like they have a perfect combination of excellent coders, writers and graphic designers on their team.
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Offline MrKlaus

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3026 on: August 01, 2014, 09:29:34 AM »
Did you see the new mock up of the OldHuntsman game in Ren'Py? I've implemented a similar map system, takes a bit of getting used to but it's better than what we had. That game may turn out really, really well, if they don't go ballistic on gore sh!t again, seems like they have a perfect combination of excellent coders, writers and graphic designers on their team.
And you have us  :P

update on the alignments: should be done before sunday.

Offline DarkTl

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3027 on: August 01, 2014, 10:16:59 AM »
The job thing can be a derivative that is calculated on the spot though.
But still we probably should use disposition and love. AG and AA games showed us the efficiency of such a system.
Besides, as Cherry mentioned, the separate job bar would make balancing much easier.

seems like they have a perfect combination of excellent coders, writers and graphic designers on their team.
They had 7 coders that coded it together and then 6 of them dissappered (sounds like a fantasy story  :D ).
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 10:27:01 AM by DarkTl »

Offline Xela

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3028 on: August 01, 2014, 11:22:09 AM »
They had 7 coders that coded it together and then 6 of them dissappered (sounds like a fantasy story  :D ).

Really? I could have coded that in under 4 hours if someone provided graphics/texts and concept + my version would have been easier to expand upon... they also resort to using pure python for no good reason. Oh well, I didn't know people left the project, it looked really promising, guess it will progress slower now. There is no complicated code there and they've messed up in a couple of places (imho) making further advance potentially harder than it had to be, but that may be a misinterpretation because I do not know the full concept or most definitely have a more Ren'Py oriented style.

Going to work on Pytfall for the rest of the day. I got lost in SE without a concept...
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 11:25:23 AM by Xela »
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Offline Xela

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3029 on: August 01, 2014, 11:30:46 AM »
And you have us  :P

Yeap, and that's 1000x better that 10 coders that disappear after writing 100 code lines per person :D
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