Author Topic: General Discussion  (Read 3821816 times)

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Offline Xela

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3105 on: August 06, 2014, 12:13:17 PM »
I missed all new posts on this page... ok so:

On my poor laptop, the game takes over 50 seconds to start and show the main menu.
It takes 8 second for my desktop to do the same.
 :)
=================

Ghm... that seems too long, guessing these are harddrive issues more than CPU. I've removed the old code variation for crazy packs in init, those were slowing sh!t down. They will not waste any resources anymore!

it's no fun man, no fun at all!

Thanks... that only took me about 10 days to make ;)


My wish list:
- places within explored area. Now you party just randomly gets some mobs to fight and loot or didn't find anything - It's easy but bit boring in my option, I would like to be able to create a settable special places that the team can find. With conditions on how to get there (like % chance, only on 3rd day, only after winning a fight in previous place, flags (for NPC quests and one time only encounters), risk value, etc.), it's own list of mobs and rewards and most importantly a text that will appear on that day report like "party found a forest ruins","was surprised by bandit attack","still climbing towards the top of the mountain"....
- settable items and cash reward lists, like for survival, not just money sum
- customizable mobs! We don't using pictures there, so I don't see a point in using arena monsters for automated exploration. That's unnecessary limitation, it should be allowed to create monsters with any names there. ("Cherryzard", "Woodanator"...)
- time to get there. It's strange to start bashing mobs just outside the city gates on day one - it's ok for forest, but if we added more remote places, it should takes a few days to go there and back. (maintaining advanced outposts or opening magic portals may be an options for the future)
- maybe stat changes? some places may be harden on fatigue to travel through
- collectible item type that you can't use and only sell or bring to NPCs for a quest? (EDIT: I just read your post about crafting - I thing these and materials may not really be "items" codewise and they should appear on some separate lists to not mess the inventory screens if they cannot be directly used anyway)

- places within explored area.
That's aready in there mate... take a better look at JSON. There is a GENERAL area, within that GENERAL area you can create and unlock any amount of local areas. What's more you can also unlock areas in different general areas so for example from forest lvl 8 you could unlock some new general area called batcaves with 5 levels of it's own BUT only from forest level 8 to make it more fun. This stuff can be expanded... we should add evaluation conditions!, yeah definitely... I'll add that when I get a chance.

- settable items and cash reward lists, like for survival, not just money sum
Ok, I'll add that as well, although it may be a good concept to be able to add "Local location name" to items locations list as well.
Cash will remain as it is and be governed by complex logic.

- customizable mobs! We don't using pictures there, so I don't see a point in using arena monsters for automated exploration. That's unnecessary limitation, it should be allowed to create monsters with any names there. ("Cherryzard", "Woodanator"...)
Those are not "arena monsters", those are our pytfall mobs and we're going to use them (feel free to add more monsters there!). I want to use the same Areas/Logic (with some expansion obviously) for actual exploration lead by MC if we ever get so far so I need those monsters to have sprites and be loadable into BE. So no, you're not getting this one ;)

- time to get there. It's strange to start bashing mobs just outside the city gates on day one - it's ok for forest, but if we added more remote places, it should takes a few days to go there and back. (maintaining advanced outposts or opening magic portals may be an options for the future)
You've missed the concept discussion, those are unstable magical areas where sh!t just keeps pouring in from different dimensions. Those areas change within themselves a bit but there are all near the city. In fact, I am meaning to add mechanics to obscure exploration progress as time passes by (loosing access to location you haven't visited in a while) and maybe twisting rewards (no ideas on how to do the latter yet).
But feel free to add a new attribute like "travel_time" = 10, I'll make it work.

- maybe stat changes? some places may be harden on fatigue to travel through
We do no longer have that stat. But this is a good idea, add a "hazard": [["health", 10], ["mp", 10], ["vitality": 50]].

- collectible item type that you can't use and only sell or bring to NPCs for a quest? (EDIT: I just read your post about crafting - I thing these and materials may not really be "items" codewise and they should appear on some separate lists to not mess the inventory screens if they cannot be directly used anyway)
Blah! That's called loot, I don't like this complication! I'll make sure that future quest items, gifts and ingredients are filtered out from "all" in the inventory.


btw. I managed to get my girls killed in almost every run into the current cursed forest. There is no warning that your team is too weak for this exploration, and then, after 3 days, they're just came back dead. Maybe some common sense for the girls and refusal to fight if odds are this bad like arena girls do would be nice there?  It's hard to tell what the "risk" value means from first glance.

Arena is a controlled environment, when exploring unstable magical areas, you shouldn't expect to know what to expect, that's what makes the game FUN. SO NO, NO WAY IN HELL ARE WE ADDING ANYTHING LIKE THAT :) If you don't have the stomach for it, go manage brothels/fight in Arena!

Risk will be explained... it's basically how much risk should the girls take when exploring. Almost everything depends on that.

now there are two of us 8)

That simply tells me that we need more reasonable people on the dev team  ::) No textbased monsters please! And loot... if you guys really want that sh!t, I'll make it work but you make the useless loot items.

Hey, that's right. Because the player sees only a monster name anyway, maybe it could be totally dumbified to just name + individual modifier, and all mobs can be just some base class stat*difficulty modifier*individual modifier. What eyes do not see...

We have enough mobs in the game to make it work without adding text based crap. Please cut this idea from the concept... I want bestiaries as well, preferably with descriptions at some point.

About the names list - I prefer less randomization there, so it makes at least some sense to run into that monster at each location...

I didn't understand that.

====
Aaa crap! PV for kancolle anime is out and I need to rework the Shoukaku attack animation to show arrows changing into planes... drawing graphics and mixing sounds is fine, but I sure hate all this confusing anchor geometry positioning stuff  :(

LoL

That's not geometry, check out the code I wrote when figuring out some issues:

Code: [Select]
init python:
    config.screen_width=1280
    config.screen_height=800
    import math
    import pygame
    MOUSEBUTTONDOWN=pygame.MOUSEBUTTONDOWN
   
    class Ship(object):
        def __init__(self, name, sprite, speed, head, size=(100, 49), start_pos=(640, 400)):
            """
            name: Name of the ship.
            sprite: RenPy Displayble
            speed: Speed
            head: Heading (in degrees)
            size: Size of the displayalbe
            start_pos: Starting Position
            """
            self.sprite = sprite
            self.offset = math.hypot(size[0], size[1])/2
            self.name = name
            self.speed = speed
            self.sprite = sprite
            self.head = head
            self.show = manager.create(At(sprite, rotate_by(self.head)))
            self.show.x = start_pos[0] - self.offset
            self.show.y = start_pos[1] - self.offset
            self.target_coords = self.show.x, self.show.y
            self.moving = 0
           
        @property
        def x(self):
            return self.show.x
        @x.setter
        def x(self, value):
            self.show.x = value
           
        @property
        def y(self):
            return self.show.y
        @y.setter
        def y(self, value):
            self.show.y = value
           
    def ships_update(st):
        """
        Updates ships data (just coords for now) on the screen.
        """
        for ship in ships:
            store.ship = ship
           
            # I don't know the pro trick to get this done :(
            # Shitty codebit follows (but it works):
            x = round(ship.x)
            y = round(ship.y)
            x = list(x+i for i in xrange(-7, 8))
            y = list(y+i for i in xrange(-7, 8))
            if ship.moving or (not (round(ship.target_coords[0]) in x and round(ship.target_coords[1]) in y)):
                if ship.moving:
                    ship.moving += 1
                    if ship.moving == 3:
                        ship.moving = 0
                       
                sprite = ship.sprite
                x = ship.x
                y = ship.y
               
                deltax = ship.speed*math.sin(math.radians(ship.head))
                deltay = ship.speed*math.cos(math.radians(ship.head))
   
                ship.show.destroy()
                ship.show = manager.create(At(sprite, rotate_by(ship.head)))
                ship.x = x + deltax
                ship.y = y - deltay
                renpy.restart_interaction()
               
            if ship.x < -ship.offset:
                ship.x = config.screen_width - ship.offset
            if ship.y < -ship.offset:
                ship.y = config.screen_height - ship.offset
            if ship.x > config.screen_width - ship.offset:
                ship.x = -ship.offset
            if ship.y > config.screen_height - ship.offset:
                ship.y = -ship.offset

        return 0.05
       
    def ships_event(ev, x, y, st):
        if ev.type == MOUSEBUTTONDOWN:
            if ev.button == 1:
                if hasattr(store, "ship") and store.ship is not None:
                    ship = store.ship
                   
                    renpy.music.play("picar.wav", channel="sound")
                   
                    angle = math.atan2((y-ship.offset) - ship.show.y, (x-ship.offset) - ship.show.x)
                    angle = angle * (180/math.pi)
                    ship.head = angle + 90
                   
                    ship.target_coords = (x-ship.offset, y-ship.offset)
                    ship.moving = 1
                    renpy.restart_interaction()
                   

define e = Character('Eileen', color="#c8ffc8")

init -10:
    transform rotate_by(degrees):
        rotate degrees
        rotate_pad True
        subpixel True
       
    transform centered_rotate(degrees, x, y):
        # Only works in show and screen language!
        rotate degrees
        xcenter x
        ycenter y
        rotate_pad True
        transform_anchor True
        subpixel True
       
screen ships:
    $ x, y = renpy.get_mouse_pos()
    text ("Angle: %d, x: %d/%d, y: %d/%d" % (ship.head-90, ship.x + ship.offset, x,  ship.y + ship.offset, y)) align (0.5, 0.05)
    text ("(100, 100)") pos(100, 100) anchor(0.5, 0.5)
    text ("(1000, 500)") pos(1000, 500) anchor(0.5, 0.5)
    text ("(Center)") pos(640, 400) anchor(0.5, 0.5)
    text ("(700, 200)") pos(700, 200) anchor(0.5, 0.5)
    text ("(100, 700)") pos(100, 700) anchor(0.5, 0.5)
   
label start:
    python:
        manager = SpriteManager(update=ships_update, event=ships_event)
        ships = []
        ships.append(Ship("Enterprice", "ship.png", 10, 45))
        ship = ships[0]
        renpy.show("_", what=manager, zorder=1)
        renpy.show_screen("ships")
       
    while True:
        $ result = ui.interact()
       
    e "Anchor and positioning resets on center."

I don't claim to understand the actual math and most of those formulas I found on the net (except for the simple offset hypotenuse, that one is mine) but this has a right to be called confusing  ::)
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3106 on: August 06, 2014, 12:39:34 PM »
That simply tells me that we need more reasonable people on the dev team  ::)  No textbased monsters please! And loot... if you guys really want that sh!t, I'll make it work but you make the useless loot items.
That's right, your dev team sux! oh wait  :D

If you really want crafting, you need loot from mobs anyway. You can't make items from gold coins. Unless by making you mean buying.

Btw, when a girl buys an item, does that item actually disappear from the shop, and girls gold is transferred to the shop?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2014, 12:44:05 PM by DarkTl »

Offline Xela

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3107 on: August 06, 2014, 01:08:00 PM »
Btw, when a girl buys an item, does that item actually disappear from the shop, and girls gold is transferred to the shop?

Nope, but she cannot buy an item that never appears in shops. Getting girls to shop from shops inventories is very easy (not more than 3 - 4 lines of code) but I have 260 girls at the moment... they'll clean our shops out during midgame and I saw little reason to burden the next day with extra calculations for little benefit.
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Offline CherryWood

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3108 on: August 06, 2014, 01:52:33 PM »
- places within explored area.
That's aready in there mate... take a better look at JSON. There is a GENERAL area, within that GENERAL area you can create and unlock any amount of local areas. What's more you can also unlock areas in different general areas so for example from forest lvl 8 you could unlock some new general area called batcaves with 5 levels of it's own BUT only from forest level 8 to make it more fun. This stuff can be expanded... we should add evaluation conditions!, yeah definitely... I'll add that when I get a chance.
I understand this, general and sub-areas are fine. What I was proposing is a level below, maybe better explained as "special encounters"? Something that happen to the exploration party, but it's not unlocked and you can not return to it at will. But I didn't really mean something special to find at all times, I was imagining it more like commenting the route the party is taking.
Is that really no good? I thought it would be awesome thing to do... I can try to figure out the code myself to not bother you, but only if you will not totally deny the idea.
An if.. how do you wanted to add events then? You mentioned them before...


Quote
[size=0px]Those are not "arena monsters", those are our pytfall mobs and we're going to use them (feel free to add more monsters there!). I want to use the same Areas/Logic (with some expansion obviously) for actual exploration lead by MC if we ever get so far so I need those monsters to have sprites and be loadable into BE. [/size][size=0px]So no, you're not getting this one[/size]
So we will have to look for sprites and figuring stats and everything just for the future possibility that MC will be allowed to go there? ...OK I can understand this, but I can't say that I'm pleased to hear that.
There was little point in adding more mobs for arena, as without combat skills they would be all alike for gameplay. But for exploration, I though it could be nice to have more just for the atmosphere of each location, even if its just names.
Quote
[size=0px]SO NO, NO WAY IN HELL ARE WE ADDING ANYTHING LIKE THAT[/size][size=0px] If you don't have the stomach for it, go manage brothels/fight in Arena![/size]
Hey, you are making me want to not working on anything exploration related with that... I'm not a someone who will allow a girls to die. But I was only worried about having to load back 15 days or so, that would be unbearable, but now I see that the exploration always ends when a girl die, so its only 1 day to load back and that ok... (unless there will be some unavoidable fights, that would be bad then)
Quote
[size=0px]Thanks... that only took me about 10 days to make [/size]
[size=0px]
I like it so far... that why I care  ;) [/size]
« Last Edit: August 06, 2014, 02:41:23 PM by CherryWood »

Offline Xela

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3109 on: August 06, 2014, 02:43:52 PM »
I understand this, general and sub-areas are fine. What I was proposing is a level below, maybe better explained as "special encounters"? Something that happen to the exploration party, but it's not unlocked and you can not return to it at will. But I didn't really mean something special to find at all times, I was imagining it more like commenting the route the party is taking.
Is that really no good? I thought it would be awesome thing to do... I can try to figure out the code myself to not bother you, but only if you will not totally deny the idea.
An if.. how do you wanted to add events then? You mentioned them before...

I am fine with it, I just cannot envision the concept. Events I meant to work as they do during the jobs but we can work out a better system.

Hey, you are making me want to not working on anything exploration related with that... I'm not a someone who will allow a girls to die.

Risk < 20 - 25% and short term raids will prevent girls from dieing but exploration will go a hell load slower and with lesser rewards, it's the best I can do here without breaking the concept (it should be already programmed that way).

I like it so far... that why I care  ;)

Lets make it better then :)

I am still working on auto-equipping, trying to anticipate as many issues with it as possible.

========================
Damn, after I got rid of .gif files, screens are closing to fast for the hs function to react... I'll have to rescale code again.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2014, 02:49:19 PM by Xela »
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3110 on: August 06, 2014, 03:05:59 PM »
I'm not a someone who will allow a girls to die.
Cough, resurrection, cough...

Offline Xela

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3111 on: August 06, 2014, 03:13:01 PM »
Cough, resurrection, cough...

Cough, )...texts, religion, concepts, NPCs...(, cough...

Seriously... resurrecting a girls is just three lines of code, it's not programming issue like complex sorting, trying to push calculations to python modules written in C or intimately knowing the code.

Finding a pic, writing base concept for resurrection (religious I believe is that we agreed on) and figuring out the price is all it takes. I/CW can cook up a new location in 10 - 20 mins.
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Offline DarkTl

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3112 on: August 06, 2014, 03:39:25 PM »
I wonder about that. Maybe more scientific approach as a first step to clonning system...
Like you pay to clone a spare body bound to girl's soul, so if she dies, he awakes in that new body. Losing inventory and all levels and stats changes that occurred after creating that body, except disposition and fame maybe.

Offline Xipomus

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3113 on: August 06, 2014, 03:42:13 PM »
You probably need a mad scientist NPC there to give a chose.
Also you could offer an option to update the clones to current level for a price.

The question is more how much do you want to ask for the soul clone (empty clone linked to the soul) and the updating set

Offline CherryWood

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3114 on: August 06, 2014, 04:00:59 PM »
Cough, resurrection, cough...
Thanks, I totally forget about it.


Soul bond clones? Something like EVE online? That immortality concept there was just great, but not sure if that's a good option for us... and I can't say that I'm a fan of the clones.




I'm fine even with simple "magic" resurrection, but it should be expensive i think. A lot. (needing rare ingredients?)
And probably lower stats a little, or give some bad effect or traits for a while.

Offline Xela

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3115 on: August 06, 2014, 04:09:42 PM »
I wonder about that. Maybe more scientific approach as a first step to clonning system...
Like you pay to clone a spare body bound to girl's soul, so if she dies, he awakes in that new body. Losing inventory and all levels and stats changes that occurred after creating that body, except disposition and fame maybe.

*That will create a lot of new data so no... Girls should be revived either exactly as they are or with some penalties based of the stats at time of death.

You probably need a mad scientist NPC there to give a chose.
Also you could offer an option to update the clones to current level for a price.

The question is more how much do you want to ask for the soul clone (empty clone linked to the soul) and the updating set

I'd prefer religious/magical approach... I don't like the "cloning" feel when talking resurrection, it adds sort of "unclean" attribute to it.

I'm fine even with simple "magic" resurrection, but it should be expensive i think. A lot. (needing rare ingredients?)
And probably lower stats a little, or give some bad effect or traits for a while.

now there are two of us 8)
:D ::) ::) ::) :D
« Last Edit: August 06, 2014, 04:11:29 PM by Xela »
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Offline Xipomus

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3116 on: August 06, 2014, 04:29:12 PM »
I'd prefer religious/magical approach... I don't like the "cloning" feel when talking resurrection, it adds sort of "unclean" attribute to it.

So needed is a NPC priest/priestes at the temple with the options.
Maybe an unlock for the resurrection option from a certain level?

Offline CherryWood

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3117 on: August 06, 2014, 04:32:37 PM »
[size=78%]I am fine with it, I just cannot envision the concept. Events I meant to work as they do during the jobs but we can work out a better system.
[/size]
[size=78%]
I'll look at the code in more detail then. I try to came up with a more concrete one then.


Do you still want more locations in current fashion? Without those events it's just one picture and mobs, so I can probably make as many as you want (if you don't have a specific requests for them, that's it).
But I think I kinda missed that talk about dimensional rifts and the cursed forest in general. I was thinking more about a normal location, like Northern Forest->Highlands->Mountain Pass->Mountain Top->Hidden Plateau route, but I can try for some messed up places beyond portals or something if that a better fit.[/size]

Offline Xela

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3118 on: August 06, 2014, 04:45:38 PM »
I'll look at the code in more detail then. I try to came up with a more concrete one then.

Note that I might work on that code as well... We need to figure out how to branch with hg or something if you have trouble diffing the code.
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Offline CherryWood

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3119 on: August 06, 2014, 04:57:41 PM »
Note that I might work on that code as well... We need to figure out how to branch with hg or something if you have trouble diffing the code.
no no, I will not write anything to that code, at least not for a while until I understand it better. If I ever do  :D


I was just asking if you want more jsons, as you asked about something like that before. But it doesn't look like it's needed now I suppose, so I can find something else to do.


================
btw. If we decide to go with church for resurrection or for anything else, I'm totally reserving a place for Zange there as a self-proclaimed church assistant to make a fun of a MC if he goes there  :P
« Last Edit: August 06, 2014, 05:15:51 PM by CherryWood »