General Discussion

[DarkTl]

On a separate topic: I found the Frenchy RPG Maker project (with insane graphics (considering that it's rpg maker))

I bet they have several artists. It's not free after all, so it's possible to hire people.

[Xela]

I bet they have several artists. It's not free after all, so it's possible to hire people.

From what I've read, they've been at it for 6 or 7 years in their free time without hiring a soul. First versions were pokemon based. Most of the stuff is not drawn, it's 3D rendered.

I am not suggesting we go down this road, in fact it's not wise to use RPG Maker for this at all... I just spent some time looking for a link to point out that a very well informed indie team are upgrading frameworks instead of using ancient XP version...
===================================

(back on earth) I found some bugs in the FG Jobs and we prolly should utilize some stuff like rep/fame as well. I'll take a look at that tonight.

[DarkTl]

Most of the stuff is not drawn, it's 3D rendered.

Can you do it? I cannot. We already have great rendered bg for arena though, but I think the user who made it had long disappeared (too bad, we could use his skills for temple of time).

Klaus asked me how difficult it would be to add sets into the game. Meaning elven boots + elven gloves + elven armor = additional bonus.
I have items for several sets already, but I'm not sure that we should do it if it will be too much trouble.

SF Updated:

No head slot? Isn't is the simplest thing ever to add one at this point? 
Also, I think we should reduce the number of ring slots to 1. It's not diablo or something, we don't have infinite amount of different rings, even with the help of Klaus.

I'd prefer to have some another slot in the future instead, like underwear or something. Would make perfect sense for girls, unlike wm, where underwear=body slot, so many non-warriors there are always half-naked, while warriors have nothing under that cold iron armor, which is far from common sense.

[Xela]

Klaus asked me how difficult it would be to add sets into the game. Meaning elven boots + elven gloves + elven armor = additional bonus.
I have items for several sets already, but I'm not sure if we should do it if it will be too much trouble.

It's doable as long as you guys don't want to attach insane amount of conditioning to it (Full Set Equipped = Max+ Stats+ (Or even True MAX+ which is impossible with current items)). That shouldn't cause any issues, at least I don't foresee any issues with it.

No head slot? Isn't is the simplest thing ever to add one at this point? 
Also, I think we should reduce the number of ring slots to 1. It's not diablo or something, we don't have infinite amount of different rings, even with the help of Klaus.

I'd prefer to have some another slot in the future instead, like underwear or something. Would make perfect sense for girls, unlike wm, where underwear=body slot, so many non-warriors there are always half-naked, while warriors have nothing under that cold iron armor, which is far from common sense.

I am not sure, logically, it's easy but I think equipment screens need to be adjusted. I'll take a look at it and push.

[MrKlaus]

First two are possible without much of a fuss. I am not going to introduce either one into the game without support from rest of the dev team. Both are doable without changing the current items system.

Third propositions will plainly mean that we'll have to track every item separately... which comes with a bunch of advantages (more options/power) and disadvantages (more work/computing resources required).

Sadly all of the approaches will require bit of a hassle, I haven't heard am overwhelmingly simple and great idea since it was suggested that slaves cannot advance past whore rank three Simple and powerful at the same time

 Not on the dev team but will share my opinion with you (tell me to shut up and I will stop posting) 
 
 1st @merchant. Was throwing general ideas with Cherry few post above. But for the final version I would wait untill the guild is up and running without problem, he could be a merchant inside the guild selling rare items found by other teams not owned by the player, or a merchant in the slums - street monger.

 2nd @pay2explore. There was the idea of team gear, was that scratched? (don’t know, can't get the dev version too run -_-) Also there could be prohibited areas to enter and the team would have to BRIBE the guard.

 3rd @itemdecay. I'm against! Rings and necklaces that I gave Dark have high price and in my opinion players gold should be controlled with the tax system and item prices. Want something good = SHOW ME THE MONEY!
 
 
4th @Darkcuttingofffingers. Hell no bro! Three slots for 10 finger (could be 20 if there would be a toe ring item class or an ankle bracelet for girls) are enough don’t remove it. If someone wants to have them all used then let them. Spend that hard pimped cash on that gold!
 

[DarkTl]

First off, I was thinking that a merchant with some sort of random item selection.  What I mean by that is basically like the whole item "gambling" system that was used in Diablo and other games.  The player could choose to buy an expensive sword, but the player won't know what the sword actually is until after it is purchased.  It could be something awesome, or it could be a regular Long Sword.  Of course, this would be applied to other items (a random potion, a random misc item, etc.).

Yeah, I've seen these things in many games. It's even more advanced in swtor, where you could get several items from completely different categories at once, with different layers of randomness.
However, most of these games have rng based equipment, thus items are always possibly better than yours. Even without rng they have like thousands of items, thus it's not easy to obtain them all even for 24/7 players. In our case, where only a few people created items so far, it won't be nearly as exciting and useful.

Second, adding a cost per person for exploration.  Now, I've only been playing the alpha, so I don't know how things are setup in the current build.  However, I believe that Xela was working on an exploration system (I could be wrong though).  Anyway, the cost to explore an area would scale, based on the difficulty of the area.  The reasoning behind this is that the characters must have the necessary supplies to make the trip and back.  These supplies wouldn't show up in anyone's inventory, so there wouldn't be any need to create new items.  An idea for the description would be something like "Tents, bedrolls, food, first aid kits (to save a character who is reduced to 0 HP), and other necessities for travel."  Not a word for word description, but you get the general idea.

It's possible, but I'd like to see completed SE for a start. Like in those videos that Xela keeps posting here, maybe without fancy graphics, but with complex and interesting mechanics.

Third, incorporating item durability into most of the items.  Sure, item durability is kind of a cheap way to force a money sink onto the player, but it does make sense.  That 3000 gold dress might not last too long in the lines of work that are available for your girls.  Thus, it will eventually become damaged and will need to be replaced.  However, to help with micromanaging issues, the player would need an "auto-buy" function or a way to repair items in bulk.

I don't even know. I wonder what other players would think about it. I mean, they probably would hate the idea.

4th @Darkcuttingofffingers. Hell no bro! Three slots for 10 finger (could be 20 if there would be a toe ring item class or an ankle bracelet for girls) are enough don’t remove it. If someone wants to have them all used then let them. Spend that hard pimped cash on that gold!
 

Ok, why 3, not 2, like in most games? (believe me, you don't want to know how Xela explained it back then  )

[MrKlaus]

Ok, why 3, not 2, like in most games? (believe me, you don't want to know how Xela explained it back then  )

 I was against going to only 1 ring. But 2 could be a reasonable compromise. But if in the future there will be a disarray between the social standing (like Xela planned), a wealthy person should be able to show off.
 

[Xela]

It's possible, but I'd like to see completed SE for a start. Like in those videos that Xela keeps posting here, maybe without fancy graphics, but with complex and interesting mechanics.

SE = Simulated Exploration. Player driven exploration will take a lot more time than that and we still haven't agreed on a format. + ATM we have a lot of other stuff to take care of.

Ok, why 3, not 2, like in most games? (believe me, you don't want to know how Xela explained it back then  )

I don't even know how I explained it back then... Players are used to three by now, why change it...

@Klaus:

What goes wrong when you try to run the dev version?

[Xela]

No head slot? Isn't is the simplest thing ever to add one at this point? 

- Added Head Slot
- Filtered out Male items and Gifts during girl equipment

[DarkTl]

SE = Simulated Exploration.

My bad, I mean EE.
SE could use moar levels of complexity too though. I imagine a global map with regions highlighted in the same manner as locations in the city. Sometimes I wonder if hiring an inexpensive artist at devianart is the only way to get decent maps and bgs for rare locations...

Players are used to three by now, why change it...

I'm afraid we don't have enough rings to provide enough variety for whole three slots. It's not a problem in other cases, other slots are unique. And it's kinda illogical to create much more rings than other items only because we have three times more slots when can have 2 or 1. Though it's a matter of taste, I guess. If you think it's not a problem, keep them.

[MrKlaus]

 @Xela
 
 The shit that pops up:
 
 

Code: [Select]

I'm sorry, but an uncaught exception occurred.
 
 While running game code:
   File "game/script.rpy", line 142, in script
     python:
   File "game/script.rpy", line 148, in <module>
     char = load_characters()
   File "game/library/functions.rpy", line 28, in load_characters
     dir = content_path('chars')
   File "game/library/functions.rpy", line 6, in content_path
     return renpy.loader.transfn('content/' + path)
 Exception: Couldn't find file 'content/chars'.
 
 -- Full Traceback ------------------------------------------------------------
 
 Full traceback:
   File "game/script.rpy", line 142, in script
     python:
   File "E:\renpy-6.17.6-sdk\renpy\ast.py", line 756, in execute
     renpy.python.py_exec_bytecode(self.code.bytecode, self.hide, store=self.store)
   File "E:\renpy-6.17.6-sdk\renpy\python.py", line 1382, in py_exec_bytecode
     exec bytecode in globals, locals
   File "game/script.rpy", line 148, in <module>
     char = load_characters()
   File "game/library/functions.rpy", line 28, in load_characters
     dir = content_path('chars')
   File "game/library/functions.rpy", line 6, in content_path
     return renpy.loader.transfn('content/' + path)
   File "E:\renpy-6.17.6-sdk\renpy\loader.py", line 497, in transfn
     raise Exception("Couldn't find file '%s'." % name)
 Exception: Couldn't find file 'content/chars'.
 
 Windows-Vista-6.0.6002-SP2
 Ren'Py 6.17.7.521
 PyTFall 0.47 Alpha
 
 I'm sorry, but an uncaught exception occurred.
 
 While running game code:
   File "game/script.rpy", line 335, in script
     python:
   File "game/script.rpy", line 337, in <module>
     pytfall.arena = Arena()
 NameError: name 'pytfall' is not defined
 
 -- Full Traceback ------------------------------------------------------------
 
 Full traceback:
   File "game/script.rpy", line 335, in script
     python:
   File "E:\renpy-6.17.6-sdk\renpy\ast.py", line 756, in execute
     renpy.python.py_exec_bytecode(self.code.bytecode, self.hide, store=self.store)
   File "E:\renpy-6.17.6-sdk\renpy\python.py", line 1382, in py_exec_bytecode
     exec bytecode in globals, locals
   File "game/script.rpy", line 337, in <module>
     pytfall.arena = Arena()
 NameError: name 'pytfall' is not defined
 
 Windows-Vista-6.0.6002-SP2
 Ren'Py 6.17.7.521
 PyTFall 0.47 Alpha
 
 I'm sorry, but an uncaught exception occurred.
 
 While running game code:
   File "game/script.rpy", line 365, in script
     $ all_chars = char.values()
   File "game/script.rpy", line 365, in <module>
     $ all_chars = char.values()
 NameError: name 'char' is not defined
 
 -- Full Traceback ------------------------------------------------------------
 
 Full traceback:
   File "game/script.rpy", line 365, in script
     $ all_chars = char.values()
   File "E:\renpy-6.17.6-sdk\renpy\ast.py", line 756, in execute
     renpy.python.py_exec_bytecode(self.code.bytecode, self.hide, store=self.store)
   File "E:\renpy-6.17.6-sdk\renpy\python.py", line 1382, in py_exec_bytecode
     exec bytecode in globals, locals
   File "game/script.rpy", line 365, in <module>
     $ all_chars = char.values()
 NameError: name 'char' is not defined
 
 Windows-Vista-6.0.6002-SP2
 Ren'Py 6.17.7.521
 PyTFall 0.47 Alpha
 
 
 I'm sorry, but an uncaught exception occurred.
 
 While running game code:
   File "game/script.rpy", line 366, in script
     while all_chars:
   File "game/script.rpy", line 366, in <module>
     while all_chars:
 NameError: name 'all_chars' is not defined
 
 -- Full Traceback ------------------------------------------------------------
 
 Full traceback:
   File "game/script.rpy", line 366, in script
     while all_chars:
   File "E:\renpy-6.17.6-sdk\renpy\ast.py", line 1495, in execute
     if renpy.python.py_eval(self.condition):
   File "E:\renpy-6.17.6-sdk\renpy\python.py", line 1416, in py_eval
     return eval(py_compile(source, 'eval'), globals, locals)
   File "game/script.rpy", line 366, in <module>
     while all_chars:
 NameError: name 'all_chars' is not defined
 
 Windows-Vista-6.0.6002-SP2
 Ren'Py 6.17.7.521
 PyTFall 0.47 Alpha
 
 
 I'm sorry, but an uncaught exception occurred.
 
 While running game code:
   File "game/script.rpy", line 371, in script
     $ del all_chars
   File "game/script.rpy", line 371, in <module>
     $ del all_chars
 NameError: name 'all_chars' is not defined
 
 -- Full Traceback ------------------------------------------------------------
 
 Full traceback:
   File "game/script.rpy", line 371, in script
     $ del all_chars
   File "E:\renpy-6.17.6-sdk\renpy\ast.py", line 756, in execute
     renpy.python.py_exec_bytecode(self.code.bytecode, self.hide, store=self.store)
   File "E:\renpy-6.17.6-sdk\renpy\python.py", line 1382, in py_exec_bytecode
     exec bytecode in globals, locals
   File "game/script.rpy", line 371, in <module>
     $ del all_chars
 NameError: name 'all_chars' is not defined
 
 Windows-Vista-6.0.6002-SP2
 Ren'Py 6.17.7.521
 PyTFall 0.47 Alpha
 
 I'm sorry, but an uncaught exception occurred.
 
 While running game code:
   File "game/script.rpy", line 372, in script
     if girl_unique_label in globals():
   File "game/script.rpy", line 372, in <module>
     if girl_unique_label in globals():
 NameError: name 'girl_unique_label' is not defined
 
 -- Full Traceback ------------------------------------------------------------
 
 Full traceback:
   File "game/script.rpy", line 372, in script
     if girl_unique_label in globals():
   File "E:\renpy-6.17.6-sdk\renpy\ast.py", line 1545, in execute
     if renpy.python.py_eval(condition):
   File "E:\renpy-6.17.6-sdk\renpy\python.py", line 1416, in py_eval
     return eval(py_compile(source, 'eval'), globals, locals)
   File "game/script.rpy", line 372, in <module>
     if girl_unique_label in globals():
 NameError: name 'girl_unique_label' is not defined
 
 Windows-Vista-6.0.6002-SP2
 Ren'Py 6.17.7.521
 PyTFall 0.47 Alpha
 
 I'm sorry, but an uncaught exception occurred.
 
 While running game code:
   File "game/script.rpy", line 386, in script
     python:
   File "game/script.rpy", line 387, in <module>
     for i in char.values():
 NameError: name 'char' is not defined
 
 -- Full Traceback ------------------------------------------------------------
 
 Full traceback:
   File "game/script.rpy", line 386, in script
     python:
   File "E:\renpy-6.17.6-sdk\renpy\ast.py", line 756, in execute
     renpy.python.py_exec_bytecode(self.code.bytecode, self.hide, store=self.store)
   File "E:\renpy-6.17.6-sdk\renpy\python.py", line 1382, in py_exec_bytecode
     exec bytecode in globals, locals
   File "game/script.rpy", line 387, in <module>
     for i in char.values():
 NameError: name 'char' is not defined
 
 Windows-Vista-6.0.6002-SP2
 Ren'Py 6.17.7.521
 PyTFall 0.47 Alpha
 
 

[Xela]

My bad, I mean EE.
SE could use moar levels of complexity too though. I imagine a global map with regions highlighted in the same manner as locations in the city. Sometimes I wonder if hiring an inexpensive artist at devianart is the only way to get decent maps and bgs for rare locations...

But cheap maps would still be worse than Cartographer/Heroes of Might And Magic Editor. Or Civ Editor for that matter. We should also not loose sight of a fact that we're not making an exploration game and have multiple modules (thus not expected to go that far). I mean, we're not building up brothels like a sim city either...

If we really dig into what's available on the net, we can come up with a kickass system and pretty graphics but games like that take years to create... We'll never get anything else done.

**Next Nightly release of Ren'Py should fix all of the Drag&Drop bugs I spent hours reporting two days back. 6.17 can be used until official 6.18 release I think.
***It's been released couple of minutes ago.

[Thewlis]

@Xela
 
 The shit that pops up:

You don't have any girls installed in the folder it expects them to be in.

I don't even know how I explained it back then... Players are used to three by now, why change it...

2 hands and an orifice?

Klaus asked me how difficult it would be to add sets into the game. Meaning elven boots + elven gloves + elven armor = additional bonus.
I have items for several sets already, but I'm not sure that we should do it if it will be too much trouble.

Just have a function that runs whenever an item is equipped that checks if the new item belongs to a set, and if the character is wearing it. Have another function check if the item being removed also belongs to a set that was complete. Then just have them apply/remove the traits / effects / whatever.

Also currently I'm setting up ST to allow for the changing of current/min/max stats and adding/removing traits. Is there anything else we want them to possibly do?

[Xela]

2 hands and an orifice?

Nose-ring?

Just have a function that runs whenever an item is equipped that checks if the new item belongs to a set, and if the character is wearing it. Have another function check if the item being removed also belongs to a set that was complete. Then just have them apply/remove the traits / effects / whatever.

Yeap, if we do this, this should be added to the apply_stats methods.

Also currently I'm setting up ST to allow for the changing of current/min/max stats and adding/removing traits. Is there anything else we want them to possibly do?

Stats/Traits is all we have at the moment that defines a character... There should be an occupation setting as well, especially if you're going with my "flags/counters" based approach.

[DarkTl]

Stats/Traits is all we have at the moment that defines a character...

Base races too, theoretically. Json is already there, but not implemented yet.