Author Topic: General Discussion  (Read 3821891 times)

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Offline DarkTl

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3750 on: October 04, 2014, 04:26:43 PM »
Ah, I get it, that scale shows disposition level. I believe it supposed to be semi-hidden though, so maybe we should use it for mood or something.

Klaus (or I, if he's busy) will take care of descriptions easily.

Offline MrKlaus

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3751 on: October 04, 2014, 05:17:33 PM »


By chance, You don't have the list of items that need descriptions?

EDIT:
@Xela

I saw that the background story window was implemented. Want me to rewrite those short that I send you some time ago. Make couple new ones (darker/brighter/funnier)? Or just sit and wait for what will You do with this?
 
« Last Edit: October 04, 2014, 05:50:45 PM by MrKlaus »

Offline livingforever

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3752 on: October 04, 2014, 09:29:07 PM »
Hi!
So what we could use I guess is some scaling parameters to entry with the sprites (probably in girl xml or arena/mobs json) so we don't have to edit the pictures but still get the result. (like that the secong pic should be displayed 1.5 larger for the bodies to match in size)

Well, cropping fully transparent lines and columns is no problem, then all sprites could be scaled to the same size.
The question is what to do with partial sprites (e.g. the legs are missing) and how to handle the character size.

I guess we can ignore character size. Adding an own field for it in the character json file is possible, but I guess it's too bothersome to estimate the size for every character.
Partial sprites could be tagged as such, e.g. on a scale from 1 to 10 (tag s0 means complete s1 means only 1/10th of the character is visible). Or, we could ignore this as well and trust pack creators to find complete sprites.
Have fun!
« Last Edit: October 04, 2014, 09:30:47 PM by livingforever »

Offline CherryWood

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3753 on: October 05, 2014, 04:54:00 AM »
I was talking about battle sprites that we know that we want them to be full-body, if there's none and a modder want that girl to fight anyway, it's his decision if he's ok with it looking weird. Girls without battle sprite just flee or surrender if there's a fight, I think it's ok solution.


The question about event sprites and tags is a bit harder. 
First, events created by modders solely for own girlpack girls are not our concern because those doesn't need to be tagged as they can look for images directly by filenames. Anything goes there - I'm surely using sprites for those if I get the chance.

But when it comes to displaying "any girl" in some generic game event, I'm not sure that we should try to use sprites at all.  I believe if would require a lot of checks for images (like what to if there is no sprite at all) and while some girls have a variety of them, a lot of girls don't and without more expressions available, these are kinda bland too.

So I personally think that if we want to simulate a nice looking discussion between "any girls", a good bet may be to use portraits with expressions for that. Portraits are easy to make by just clipping normal pics so more expressions should be available more often, doesn't need to be transparent and various outfits in them (thing that look weird in sprites or normal pics that change) are usually not as a problem as only a small portion can be seen.
It can look somehow like this then:



By chance, You don't have the list of items that need descriptions?
Not all, but I can use help with those in items_fg_ng_test.json that have it's description empty (not "WIP"). Nothing interesting there, it's mostly just a low-tier items to fill the droplist. (that's why I have trouble with it, what the hell I should write about something so common like fur coat?)


btw. I found a nice set of school outfits icons

but I somehow keep imagining them like something tag related and not normal items  :)  (cause school series like Haruhi often them all in pics)


---------------
I also still wondering about unlocking images since that our first discussion about it...
« Last Edit: October 05, 2014, 07:27:29 AM by CherryWood »

Offline DarkTl

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3754 on: October 05, 2014, 12:35:06 PM »
Girls without battle sprite just flee or surrender if there's a fight, I think it's ok solution.
Good idea. Better than any other so far.

Portraits are easy to make by just clipping normal pics so more expressions should be available more often, doesn't need to be transparent and various outfits in them
I agree. We still could show characters sprites during conversations, but portraits will handle emotions.

btw. I found a nice set of school outfits icons
I can easily make items from them if you don't have other ideas.

I also still wondering about unlocking images since that our first discussion about it...
You mean better images with higher disposition or something?

Offline CherryWood

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3755 on: October 05, 2014, 01:29:38 PM »
You mean better images with higher disposition or something?
Yes, something like that. I denied it earlier for dunno why now, but as another kind of reward for progression/events it may be a nice option.

Offline livingforever

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3756 on: October 05, 2014, 01:35:42 PM »
Hi everyone!

Good idea. Better than any other so far.
A character without the appropriate image not being able to do the associated action/job/whatever was suggested ages ago.
I got the reply that this is already the case - have I been misinformed?

I agree. We still could show characters sprites during conversations, but portraits will handle emotions.
And honestly, this should be the only case where the emotion tags are used. For everything else it's up to the character wether he/she likes the action or not and therefore the pack creator's problem if it doesn't fit in (he's the one that has to match traits and images).

I could add an option to select a square area in any image and save it as portrait... the UI for that would be somewhat tricky to implement though.

...
I'll take care of cropping transparent rows/columns from battle sprites then.

I also still wondering about unlocking images since that our first discussion about it...
You mean better images with higher disposition or something?
Please not. The problem is to define "better" - and we really don't need more effort for tagging images.
If you want to do something like this do it based on what's already there, e.g. allow/disallow sex types based on disposition (I guess hand-/footjob > titjob > blowjob > vaginal > anal would be a more or less natural order).
Have fun!
« Last Edit: October 05, 2014, 01:41:26 PM by livingforever »

Offline CherryWood

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3757 on: October 05, 2014, 01:56:30 PM »
Hi everyone!
A character without the appropriate image not being able to do the associated action/job/whatever was suggested ages ago.
I got the reply that this is already the case - have I been misinformed?
Yes, it is like that. I'm only not sure if it's also that case for fights that we start manually from events, like that one in date example.

Quote
I'll take care of cropping transparent rows/columns from battle sprites then.
???  Why? Nothing is wrong with current battle sprites if we don't want to change the system
« Last Edit: October 05, 2014, 02:51:48 PM by CherryWood »

Offline Xela

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3758 on: October 05, 2014, 01:59:41 PM »
Ah, I get it, that scale shows disposition level. I believe it supposed to be semi-hidden though, so maybe we should use it for mood or something.

Me and Gismo went through some trouble to get it to look that way so lets leave it at that :)

...

Sure, go ahead! I'll add some simple stuff first and we can expand with the story approaches later. You can make some funny, some dark, some bright. If you can think of some simple mods (to MC) fitting the backgrounds, add those to descriptions as well (separately) but you can that for later.

...

There is not reason we couldn't allow both sprites and portraits. We'll have to set up some ground rules for all kinds of sprites at some points. Maybe your approach where you can create json file to accompany sprites images when required is the best we can do atm. Simply an modifier to any height/width parameters set by the game will solve most issues, if not all (I gave this some thought and it should work and will be very easy to code for the game to do completely automatically).

---------------
I also still wondering about unlocking images since that our first discussion about it...

If you mean unlocking new images as you play that it's perfectly doable. We can even archive the packs using internal renpy or simple zip to "hide" images from users :)

We'd prolly need "objective" tags rating images somehow so the game knows when to unlock new once.

Good idea. Better than any other so far.

Nah, there are reasons this will work sh!tty if we want the game to work properly and be moddable. We need to find something that could pass for a "generic" battle sprite. Like a fully armored woman without any features or some dark sprite that hides everything but a female silhouette and have battle_sprites default to that instead of profile.

Hi everyone!
A character without the appropriate image not being able to do the associated action/job/whatever was suggested ages ago.
I got the reply that this is already the case - have I been misinformed?
And honestly, this should be the only case where the emotion tags are used. For everything else it's up to the character wether he/she likes the action or not and therefore the pack creator's problem if it doesn't fit in (he's the one that has to match traits and images).

I could add an option to select a square area in any image and save it as portrait... the UI for that would be somewhat tricky to implement though.
I'll take care of cropping transparent rows/columns from battle sprites then.
Please not. The problem is to define "better" - and we really don't need more effort for tagging images.
If you want to do something like this do it based on what's already there, e.g. allow/disallow sex types based on disposition (I guess hand-/footjob > titjob > blowjob > vaginal > anal would be a more or less natural order).
Have fun!

Hi everyone!
A character without the appropriate image not being able to do the associated action/job/whatever was suggested ages ago.
I got the reply that this is already the case - have I been misinformed?

That's how it works exactly but only during jobs where there is a decent fallback. Combat is trickier, player can add any girl to a team and if you have a powerful free girl on your team that should be able to support you during a difficult battle but is disregarded just because there is no battle sprite for her (all WM packs for example), it's a sh!tty scenario.

And honestly, this should be the only case where the emotion tags are used. For everything else it's up to the character wether he/she likes the action or not and therefore the pack creator's problem if it doesn't fit in (he's the one that has to match traits and images).

I could add an option to select a square area in any image and save it as portrait... the UI for that would be somewhat tricky to implement though.

That's better left to GIMP/Photoshop or other image editing software. We need emotions and already using emotions at other places, this has been discussed already.

I'll take care of cropping transparent rows/columns from battle sprites then.

Another thing better left to the modder? Less work for you as well :)

Please not. The problem is to define "better"

I suggested that a long time and and the above is exactly the reason Dark and CW overruled me (I think even wording is almost exactly the same) :D :D :D

It's fun to have "unlockable" CG galleries... maybe without any rating at all? Simply one picture in the beginning and unlocking other gradually on levels/events/quests?

I was imagining it as adding tags like "1", "2", "3" to some images and then telling the game to add images "1" to the pool at some condition. Dunno if it actually can work that way, probably not  :)

We could make it work. Would require some modifications to the current tags db code but any conditional unlocking will.
Like what we're doing?

Offline livingforever

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3759 on: October 05, 2014, 04:10:46 PM »
Hi!
That's better left to GIMP/Photoshop or other image editing software. We need emotions and already using emotions at other places, this has been discussed already.
Another thing better left to the modder? Less work for you as well :)
It's not like it's a complex algorithm. I've already written it by now, I'll just add it to the list of things you can do when importing images.

It's fun to have "unlockable" CG galleries... maybe without any rating at all? Simply one picture in the beginning and unlocking other gradually on levels/events/quests?
Since the game has a CG gallery... why not unlock every picture there as soon as it's used once?
That would add the desired unlockable feature while being 100% non-disruptive for the gameplay.
Have fun!

Offline Xela

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3760 on: October 05, 2014, 04:31:29 PM »
Since the game has a CG gallery... why not unlock every picture there as soon as it's used once?
That would add the desired unlockable feature while being 100% non-disruptive for the gameplay.

Easiest as well but doing this "half way" isn't a good option. Either just unlock the whole thing from the start or unlock as rewards for the continued gameplay (leveling up) and quests/events.

This can be done at any point of the development, CW wanted a discussion so that my view on the issue...
Like what we're doing?

Offline MrKlaus

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3761 on: October 05, 2014, 05:14:51 PM »
I suggested that a long time and and the above is exactly the reason Dark and CW overruled me (I think even wording is almost exactly the same) :D :D :D

It's fun to have "unlockable" CG galleries... maybe without any rating at all? Simply one picture in the beginning and unlocking other gradually on levels/events/quests?

 Maybe make just 1 picture unlockable, but of high res & quality, that could be used as a background on the PC desktop or some really sexy image of the girl.

 ---------
 Done with the descriptions. Posting them for acceptance. Check them Cherry:
Code: [Select]
Fur Coat:
Made from northern dears, thick hide. Guarantee protection from wind and cold. Perfect for traveling in snowy regions.
 
Darksome Trophy:
Acquired from a slain barbarian. It suppose to increase the bearers strength, but it wasn’t very useful to the previous owner.
 
Ice Shoes:
Made from never melting ice. Popular footwear for young girls looking for that special one. Caution: Easy to lose when running down stairs.
 
Viny-patterned Corset:
 Piece of the wardrobe created solely to make the waist look thinner. Sewn from green linen and padded with silk. For better visual effect, broidered with slimming floral motive in the front. At top and bottom finished with white lace and decorated with small taffeta ribbons. Beautifully underlining the wearers breasts and hips.
 
Snow-knit Gown:
The materials origin is a trade secret. The gown itself is made from a really thin, almost pellucid fabric. Very carefully and neatly sewed together. If the girl wearing this gown isn’t shaking, you can be assured that she is hot more ways than one!
 
Leather Kilt:
Piece of skin covering your most important parts. Beware, in some cultures wearing this is an invitation for indecent acts between men!
 
Ice Daggers:
Wanting to be an ice-cold assassin isn’t enough. For those who want to show off their cool, this weapon is the perfect solution.
Icy Sword:
Big, firm, sharp piece of ice, shaped with magic to be used as a blade. Long term usage without wearing gloves can cause frostbites.
 
Icicle Staff:
Like the name says, it’s an Icicle. Made more firm and lighter with magic, it is used as a staff but also successfully as a walking cane.
 
Bone Knife:
Made from a chipped bone wrapped around with a piece of cloth for better grip. Really primitive, but still very effective.

 
« Last Edit: October 05, 2014, 06:53:40 PM by MrKlaus »

Offline livingforever

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3762 on: October 05, 2014, 05:52:46 PM »
Hi!
Easiest as well but doing this "half way" isn't a good option. Either just unlock the whole thing from the start or unlock as rewards for the continued gameplay (leveling up) and quests/events.
It's not a "half way option". Unlocking a scene after the player has seen it once is completely normal and widely appreciated. It's intuitive and encourages to try different things, so it promotes different styles of gameplay without forcing the player to decide for one.

What you suggest is either redundant (because you unlock images that you've seen any amount of times before) or disruptive (because images are reserved for gallery purposes, meaning that they aren't used for the game).
Have fun!

Offline DarkTl

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3763 on: October 06, 2014, 03:21:09 AM »
We need to find something that could pass for a "generic" battle sprite. Like a fully armored woman without any features or some dark sprite that hides everything but a female silhouette and have battle_sprites default to that instead of profile.
I keep hearing about generic battle sprites from everyone, but I have yet to see a decent one, or even just a one  ::)

There is not reason we couldn't allow both sprites and portraits.
There is, portraits are much easier to find/make  :D

I suggested that a long time and and the above is exactly the reason Dark and CW overruled me (I think even wording is almost exactly the same)
Yup. I personally have another proposition. There are pictures with semi nude characters that still cannot be classified as completely nude, ie without cloth or with striptease. They exist in profile and rest categories mostly. We could use them only with high enough disposition. I usually use undress tag for them.

Offline Xela

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Re: General Discussion
« Reply #3764 on: October 06, 2014, 04:46:02 AM »
What you suggest is either redundant (because you unlock images that you've seen any amount of times before) or disruptive (because images are reserved for gallery purposes, meaning that they aren't used for the game).

It's the only thing that is really "engaging", hiding images before seen once is redundant, neither thing is disruptive as gameplay is not blocked. I haven't seen many of the images in CWs packs before.

Personally, I cannot see this working out well for several reasons without putting some serious effort into it...

I keep hearing about generic battle sprites from everyone, but I have yet to see a decent one, or even just a one  ::)

You have more recent experience looking for sprites than I and you have the description of what's required. Either a fully armored girl or something that is clearly a female battle sprite when turned into a silloette.



Some options for armors I found in 10 min search.

There is, portraits are much easier to find/make  :D

And sprites look a lot better. There is no reason why both cannot be allowed to give us and modders choices.

Yup. I personally have another proposition. There are pictures with semi nude characters that still cannot be classified as completely nude, ie without cloth or with striptease. They exist in profile and rest categories mostly. We could use them only with high enough disposition. I usually use undress tag for them.

This is a bit different than what's discussed... we should do something along these lines anyway.
Like what we're doing?