General Discussion

[Xela]

I think i fix it.
http://www.pinkpetal.org/index.php?topic=3493.0

Sweet, I'll try it when I get a chance.

Doesn't look like I'll get any time for the project today Maybe couple of hours in the evening to take a look at Gismos code.

[DarkTl]

It seems nice for a minigame, though we probably should add card decks or something, so you have to find better cards to beat some opponents. Otherwise there won't be any progression = boring after some time.

[Xela]

It seems nice for a minigame, though we probably should add card decks or something, so you have to find better cards to beat some opponents. Otherwise there won't be any progression = boring after some time.

Can be dependent on stats/equipment/luck. System will prolly be improved in the future.

*I did manage to turn some of Gismos pictures into buttons yesterday, maybe a bit more today, without logic still but some of them are now buttons

There is one kind of a button where a large frame is being shrunk, I couldn't find a way to properly reuse that We'll need a new one or the same one with a smaller size.

[DarkTl]

Stats can't be everything, because it will trivialize everything at high levels.
If you ever played Fallout NV, they have a cool card game there.

[Thewlis]

Committed ST.2, gonna update the Slave Training thread again.

[Xela]

Committed ST.2, gonna update the Slave Training thread again.

Awesome, push it when you're ready, I managed to create underlying logic (without mechanics) for Gismo's MC Buildup interface. There are some bugs (wrong button text blinks red when a different button is pushed)... not sure if it's a bug in Ren'Py or my fault.

There is also an issue with one of the frames (it's too big to scale down properly). I've used default one for now and Gismo can make a smaller pretty frame when he gets a chance.

It is now possible to pick stuff and information will appear on the screen in a fashion Gismo described in his post. Once again, small amount of code that took a long time to write due to some weird sh!t and lots of ifs... it now awaits more content We'll code in the actual bonuses later, I am thinking we may allow customization of stats and apply all extra bonuses when MC is being built.

It is not required to create a full 8 father stories, but game expect there to be two MC profiles with 3 sub-choices each as in the original sketch.

[Eliont]

Stats can't be everything, because it will trivialize everything at high levels.
If you ever played Fallout NV, they have a cool card game there.

Now deck don't exist. Cards creating in a start of new turn based on equipment and perks.
Unused card discarded on the end of turn.

Can you give me example?
I you mean create card system like Final Fantasy 8, then i think i may create hybrid version - rare equipment add chance to special card appearing in field.

[DarkTl]

What bothers me most is that both enemies and players can be extremely strong at high levels with good equipment, at least in our game.
If there will be cards with more and more high values at higher levels, the system will lose its clarity quickly. Imagine a high lvl battle with cards like 58, 194, 132, 45, 63, 149 without a calculator.
It's probably unavoidable when there is a big difference in power, but in other cases some kind of normalization is necessary.

I you mean create card system like Final Fantasy 8, then i think i may create hybrid version - rare equipment add chance to special card appearing in field.

That's an interesting idea. But how are you going to determine whether an item is rare or not? Do we need a new field for items, like cheap/common/good/rare/unique?

[Xela]

*One of the most important tasks atm is to try and unify conversations and actions during girlsmeets, interactions (all kinds) and training. Does anyone have ideas on how to get that done and what issues we might face?

Edit:
*We also need some form of a method to determine state of "mood" for a girl to override stats if necessary, to use for interactions/profile/girlsmeets screens.

[DarkTl]

Some basic thoughts, don't have much time right now.
- When disposition hits some value, you can hire her. When it hits another value, you find out where does she live.
If you don't want to hire her, you don't need to. As long as disposition is high enough, you can visit her anytime (and do interactions there).
- Girlsmeets. It's basically pickuping in case of new girls, when you try to establish basic relationships. When you meet a girl that you already know well enough, it should be something middle between GM and interactions, I mean available options.
- Dating. I'm not really sure what kind of system to use here. For now we could make it simple, like invite her somewhere (cafe, beach, etc) and use interactions menu there with bonus interaction points.
- Interactions. Include more personal options that cannot be used on the street. That includes sex stuff, I think, unless you hire a whore.

Clarify what do you mean by mood.

[DarkTl]

Pushed some Pinkutako's items. I wish I could add his consumables, but he used known characters at icons, so it's not an option. Though the very idea to create a container with a girl trapped inside, either unique or random one, is interesting.

[Xela]

Some basic thoughts, don't have much time right now.
- When disposition hits some value, you can hire her. When it hits another value, you find out where does she live.

If she is unemployed, you should be able to hire her even at -100. Right now we don't track that... but that was the plan.

If you don't want to hire her, you don't need to. As long as disposition is high enough, you can visit her anytime (and do interactions there).
- Girlsmeets. It's basically pickuping in case of new girls, when you try to establish basic relationships. When you meet a girl that you already know well enough, it should be something middle between GM and interactions, I mean available options.

I thinks that's doable, can someone gather some images of apartments and rank them from 1 (poor) to 3 (or 5) (luxury). Game can determine where she lives on girls cash/place of work (I actually asked for some options for workplaces and simple ranking system as well and got some results (as possible workplaces) but those were never finished or ranked/wage determined or sorted by occupations properly (*I think Klaus tried sorting them to some degree) (stats/traits should matter for the wage as well), was about the same time as you wrote the base price sheet for stuff in PyTFall I think).

Those two things would be required if we don't want this system to be too random/inconsistent.

*Options can be more or less the same, responses might be different (Gms in AA2). I don't think maintaining different labels for (most) girlsmeets and iterations is sensible.

*If girl can be hired at low disposition in the future (and that is planned and confirmed in many discussions), there should be no practical difference between them at all... but figuring that out is why I've raised the subject.

- Interactions. Include more personal options that cannot be used on the street. That includes sex stuff, I think, unless you hire a whore.

Maybe, but sex stuff is not exactly offlimits in the forest or part completely either... We can simply block some options based on last label used or something.

Clarify what do you mean by mood.

A decent way to use mood tags based off flags. Actions can set those flags on scale from -5 to 5 for example. Those flags will overwrite settings game takes from joy.

If no flag is set, we determine the "mood" from girls joy.

If flag is set flag determines the mood and overrides joy settings (maybe based off normalization routine, -1 cannot override joy of 90 but - 3 to - 5 will override any joy setting).

There will be a new positional argument in girls show method that will be set to True and have the game pick correct mood images in all locations unless user explicitly sets that to true. We can use the same system in conversations and actions I guess.

It would be a good way to make use of all the work you guys did tagging the images and us coding the tagger system or tagging software that is semi-automatic and might work out marvelously.

Mood will be stuff like: "angry", "sad", "happy" and so on (what we can make use of with tags).

===============
I have a decent idea that might effect the entire gameplay but not time atm to propose it It's not relevant to moods/conversations.

**I am thinking we should try to give the whole slave training and maybe the gameplay itself different approach. In ancient times, values of skilled slaves was insane (skilled medical practitioner 50 - 70 times unskilled slaves, skilled artists/musicians x25 value the unskilled slaves, scribes x10 value of the unskilled slaves and etc.)

It might not be a bad idea to build the whole game around something like that (full training could take up to 1000 days and require a professional trainer (who can in turn train several slaves at the same time)).

Break first (Simpler/quicker process, good or bad) and teach later. Or break (somewhat higher value and sell at base price). Our exp system that doesn't allow stat to soar without control and that can be controlled through exp_adjust method could be of great help in balancing this as well.

In any case, this is a big decision so I'll leave this to a discussion for now.

This was it in the nutshell. I thought about many ifs/buts so it seems like a whole deal to type out...

[DarkTl]

That's probably because unskilled slaves were cheap, so there was a room for higher prices. I believe not every slave was a pretty, hot girl in the first place 

You see, we want freeable slaves. Thus, they cannot have something that free girls don't have at all, and vice versa. And free girls don't have many professional skills, unlike in SM3 for example. Iirc we only have strip and service stats that could be called pro skills.

So in order to make expensive, valuable slaves we need useful, valuable skills that girls can learn, and preferably something better, deeper than "dance 0/100". Maybe some kind of skill tree or multilevel traits or flags of some kind, I don't know.
And these skills actually should be useful and uncommon, and you have to pay extra to girls that have them. That's why slaves that have them too should be expensive.

In your example slaves that you mentioned have uncommon skills. Good doctors and artists are valued even now, and without education system (I wonder if they have one in Pytfall?..) educated people were rare enough.
In Jack-o-nine tails you actually could make slaves for various professions, because the game has enough very diferent skills.
We only have base stats, battle stats, sex skills and service. Cleaners are common, and combat is forbidden for slaves, so the only type of valueable slaves that we can currently make is sex retalated.

[Xela]

I and Thewlis will make it work logically. It's more of a question of general direction that a game may take.

I am concidering a lot of other stuff like farming with tiled business and competition for example. It seems to me atm a very interesting route to take.

[DarkTl]

Competition? Do you mean AI opponents? I guess we cannot really handle it in the same way WM handles it, there are more things than just brothels in our game.