General Discussion

[Xela]

Competition? Do you mean AI opponents? I guess we cannot really handle it in the same way WM handles it, there are more things than just brothels in our game.

We can handle it in exactly the same way but I recon that we can do better. It's (once again) a question of if we should take slow going more realistic training and business buildup or faster gameplay (as we have now).

I wouldn't worry about the AI right now as that, as well as the city simulation will be something we work on post next release. Right now, we have a list of stuff that needs (or at least should) to be done before the next release.

ST module is getting better and better and will take logical and playable shape very soon and I'll try to wrap up simple SE module as well (just need to take a look at jail and turn on girls capture). From that point on, I'll (once again, just like before the first release) block free access to repository and we'll work on the rest of "TODO" list which will be balancing, content and gameplay.

If we can keep with the pace we're on now, I recon that we can manage a decent new release around x-mass. What we do afterwards will depend on our own ideas and feed back across 5 forums just as it was the first time.

[DarkTl]

If we look at your example, a doctor requires long education and practice, and an artist requires talent, something that cannot be obtained by anyone. Though anyone can learn to draw eventually, I guess.
So, there are two parts: long training (and you need a good student to make it worth) and innate talent. Maybe even both to make a really good specialist. Talents don't have to be visiable and obvious, unlike traits.

I think this looks like a completely new system rather than just a part of ST. Skills and talents need utility = more content like jobs.

[Xela]

I said this from the start,  possible new direction to the game play. 

Hidden talent will simply be a part of it.

[DarkTl]

I mean we should finish current systems before starting a new, possibly big one 

[Xela]

I mean we should finish current systems before starting a new, possibly big one 

It not that big of a change + it's not a "new system"...

[Xela]

Tiny SF Update:

- Slaves can no longer equip large weapons
- Slaves can no longer equip for combat from girls equipment screen
- All girls will try to auto-equip large weapons for all jobs if weapon type starts with "NW" or "nw" (* Short for None-Weapon)

*Note: Use NW/nw for none weapon types. There is one work currently used for broom and another for dildo, I don't want to create a list of all options so stuff like:

NW-Cleaning Tool
NW-Sex Toy

Will work.

[livingforever]

Hi!

It's (once again) a question of if we should take slow going more realistic training and business buildup or faster gameplay (as we have now).

My vote goes to fast and simple gameplay instead of realism.
That really is kind of a marketing question though. Realistic, deep gameplay will allow spending more time with the game, but will make it more difficult, hence attract more hardcore players.
Simple, fast gameplay means faster successes and is generally easier to understand - which results in more casual players and more players overall.

There is no better option, but let's look at the game's target audience: Let's face it, it's a porn game. Do you really think many people care about playing a porn game "hardcore"?

If we look at your example, a doctor requires long education and practice, and an artist requires talent, something that cannot be obtained by anyone. Though anyone can learn to draw eventually, I guess.

I thought the same until I had a semester drawing course. I was amazed to find out that it doesn't require talent at all (although it helps to have it) but rather lots of practice (even for those that have talent).
Therefore, I suggest ignoring special talents and stick with what's already there.
Have fun!

[DarkTl]

It not that big of a change + it's not a "new system"...

Somehow it reminds me those ideas about making every girl truly unique with the help of unique preferences.
Maybe if you give us an example...

[Xela]

My vote goes to fast and simple gameplay instead of realism.
That really is kind of a marketing question though. Realistic, deep gameplay will allow spending more time with the game, but will make it more difficult, hence attract more hardcore players.
Simple, fast gameplay means faster successes and is generally easier to understand - which results in more casual players and more players overall.

There is no better option, but let's look at the game's target audience: Let's face it, it's a porn game. Do you really think many people care about playing a porn game "hardcore"?

We're past "fast/simple gameplay" with this design:

- Characters (Lots)
- Items (250+)
- Traits (60+)
- Arena
- Brothels
- Advanced tagging system
- Simulated Exploration
- Girlsmeets
- SlaveMarket
- Auto-Equipping/Auto-Buying items
- Realtor
- Citymap
- Finances logging
- Simple battle-engine
- School
- Shops/Inventories
- Events system
- Slave Training
- Advanced MC housing
- Improved Battle Engine
- Player Guided Exploration
- Cloning/Pregnancy systems
- Crafting/Alchemy
- Relationship system
- Quests system
*Prolly more

I'd question if this is a (pure) porn game at this point (but i am glad that you think that because I quit Alkion because it seized to be a hentai ) I feel like we're moving towards a sim game with an adult approach (that doesn't conveniently forget about matters like slavery/sex/war/death just because it's a game). There is a hentai edge, obviously, this is how it got started and we'll keep to that in our concepts/designs whenever it's sensible.

I thought the same until I had a semester drawing course. I was amazed to find out that it doesn't require talent at all (although it helps to have it) but rather lots of practice (even for those that have talent).
Therefore, I suggest ignoring special talents and stick with what's already there.

That's true, even I got fairly good with Photoshop at some point (admittedly any progress I made was slow) while I can barely draw a straight line with a pencil on paper

Somehow it reminds me those ideas about making every girl truly unique with the help of unique preferences.
Maybe if you give us an example...

Example of what, my proposal is pretty clear. I have some specific ideas as well but you'll have to be clearer about what you'd like to know.

[Gismo]

Ok this is my first attempt to draw a map. It isn't finished, simply laid out to collect your wishes and councils.
https://yadi.sk/d/vT55IAl-c6ibo

[Thewlis]

Heads up, I posted an update about the ST over at the ST thread. It contains information about changes I've made to Buildings / Jobs in general and should be looked at by anyone who uses them.

[DarkTl]

Example of what, my proposal is pretty clear. I have some specific ideas as well but you'll have to be clearer about what you'd like to know.

How are you going to handle those valuable skills that make slaves so expensive and take a lot of time to train? Like I said, all skills need utility. By utility I mean more than higher price for slave btw. Just adding some skills that do nothing will make the game boring like SM3.
So basically you have to add like 5-10 skills (flags/traits/whatever) and make them very useful for something. That's how I see it, at very least.

For example, we add a doctor flag that allows to heal other characters. We should code the healing process and a system to control it.
Then we add an artist flag that allows to create works of art. We should code items generation and a system to control it.
And so on.

Seems like a lot of coding.

[Xela]

How are you going to handle those valuable skills that make slaves so expensive and take a lot of time to train? Like I said, all skills need utility. By utility I mean more than higher price for slave btw. Just adding some skills that do nothing will make the game boring like SM3.
So basically you have to add like 5-10 skills (flags/traits/whatever) and make them very useful for something. That's how I see it, at very least.

For example, we add a doctor flag that allows to heal other characters. We should code the healing process and a system to control it.
Then we add an artist flag that allows to create works of art. We should code items generation and a system to control it.
And so on.

Seems like a lot of coding.

Well, yeah, that's what I meant + some ideas like hidden talent/traits mods/special events and practice (not just learning but also practicing crafts while still in training). Is there a reason you believe that this system will require more coding than the current one (like in most other similar games)? That doesn't seem to be the case to me.

I have trouble with envisioning decent gameplay in a game of our size if a character can be trained to do anything in 50 - 100 days... Balancing that out to make it of any interest seems like a lot more work (if possible at all).

It's not just for slaves obviously, free characters will work off the same system and require payment of wages accordingly.

[livingforever]

Hi!

...

Two problems:
First, I never said that it's only a porn game. It isn't, but that doesn't change the validity of my argument.
Second, you listed a bunch of simple systems (except for a few) that combined make a extensive game, which is absolutely fine.

To make the second point more clear, I'll directly compare a hidden talent system (which I oppose) with a skill system (which I support).
Basically, the end result is the same: The character is slightly better at a given task. However, the way to get there is completely different. A skill system is an own subsystem of the character, it adds another button to the UI but it doesn't make current systems more complex. Hidden talents on the other hand are not a subsystem, they are a blind addition to existing value and price evaluation, therefore they make playing the game more difficult.
In keywords:
Skill system - The user has control, it's intuitive because the effects are clear, the only thing getting more complex is the UI.
Talent system - The user has no control, it's unintuitive because the effects are unknown which makes the already intransparent pricing even harder to understand.

You could argue that making the pricing as intransparent as possible is intentional, but that would contradict your statement of focusing on simulation.

Also, a skill system would allow more character customization and specialization which the game currently lacks (mostly because of the very limiting professions).
Have fun!

[Xela]

I don't like when all things are "clear" about a character but it's doesn't make a lot of difference to me if there is a skill or a talent system in the game. I'll try to take a look at girlsmeets/interactions code to figure out how a common system can be created.