General Discussion

[DarkTl]

I'll have to remake items a bit after finishing with packs, so we need a conclusion about stats before I'll begin it. I mean vague things like battle stats and libido. Also we need to figure out what to do with existing spells, I mean do we need items to learn them or not.

I mean it. I won't be able to work on items until we sort that out.

[Xela]

I mean it. I won't be able to work on items until we sort that out.

I am open to suggestions or at least a list of concrete topics for discussion. I gtg now but brb in an hour... you know my general approach to stats like libido... if we can go without them for the next release, don't use them

Game is getting far to complicated and difficult to manage/keep track of things. We do need to discuss battle items for sure but I am too confused about that atm because I haven't figured out where to draw the line between items and BE yet. We can discuss that as well I guess.

[Xela]

|PS:

Just pushed updated spells if you want to take a look. Also fixed small but significant but with items.

[DarkTl]

Well, I tried 

  File "game/library/screens/pyt - screens - arena_inside.rpy", line 15, in script
    $ pytfall.arena.screen_loop()
  File "game/library/screens/pyt - screens - arena_inside.rpy", line 15, in <module>
    $ pytfall.arena.screen_loop()
  File "game/library/classes - arena and exploration.rpy", line 1098, in screen_loop
    self.start_chainfight()
  File "game/library/classes - arena and exploration.rpy", line 1955, in start_chainfight
    be_bridge_team_setup(hero.team, battle, f_class=PlayerFighter, skip=True, sprite_flip=False)
  File "game/library/functions.rpy", line 769, in be_bridge_team_setup
    Member.RegisterSkill(Library.Skills.__dict__[key])
KeyError: 'PureLight'

Now, items and stats.
- magic defence of any kind. It could be several elements resistances, it could be one single stat like magic defence, it could be some tricky formula based on our old stats. But it should not be just normal defence, it ruins the concept of magic.

- we could use a new field for items that changes character magic damage. Like, fire damage +n%, water damage -m%.
It's not mandatory, but it will help with items creation a lot.

- if you don't have any other plans, we need items to learn spells. I don't remember if we have such a field or is it works as intended since I never used something like that before.
That leads us to possible limitations that we discussed before, like only characters with dark affinity could learn dark spells by themselves, and you need such a character with big enough desposition if you want to learn a dark spell without dark affinity.

[Xela]

Well, I tried 
Now, items and stats.

Test it with our BE, not Jake's

I still haven't transferred the game to new design.

Now, items and stats.
- magic defence of any kind. It could be several elements resistances, it could be one single stat like magic defence, it could be some tricky formula based on our old stats. But it should not be just normal defence, it ruins the concept of magic.

No new stats, unless you have a really good gameplay implementation for them. We need to focus on good gameplay and simple logic. Most of new games work like that and are a lot of fun! I would suggest using defence, intelligence and constitution.

- we could use a new field for items that changes character magic damage. Like, fire damage +n%, water damage -m%.
It's not mandatory, but it will help with items creation a lot.

If we keep adding stuff like this, we'll never release new version Also stuff like this is not hard to add later on and will make interesting additions to the game. Items are not a problem, once we have a non alpha version of the game, people will help you with items... like in all other games like ours.

- if you don't have any other plans, we need items to learn spells. I don't remember if we have such a field or is it works as intended since I never used something like that before.
That leads us to possible limitations that we discussed before, like only characters with dark affinity could learn dark spells by themselves, and you need such a character with big enough desposition if you want to learn a dark spell without dark affinity.

Sounds complicated. I was thinking about creating items that add new attacks or more than one attack.

====
PS: Test Dscreen button on the main screen activates battle setup with new BE. It's been doing that for about a month now in case you've missed my post.

[DarkTl]

Aww, I thought you completely replaced the old BE finally 

I was thinking about consumable books (or miscs) that add a spell after using, we already have some cool icons for such items in db. I mean permanently, of course.

As for mag def, I was thinking about formulas based on defence and constitution for normal attacks (not just defence) and defence and intelligence for magic attacks.
Like (2 x def + (int *or* const depending on attack source))/3 at very least.

[DarkTl]

One more thing. I tested high level characters, it's not like they have billions of hp. But nevertheless in many games there are items that restore health/mp/stamina in percent, usually about 25, 50 and 100%, thus solving any possible problems with high level healing due to balance issues. They also considered as high level items, more expensive and rare than usual restoration items.

In our case such items should be hardcoded.

[Xela]

I was thinking about consumable books (or miscs) that add a spell after using, we already have some cool icons for such items in db. I mean permanently, of course.

I think that is already possible. If not, I'll make it so.

As for mag def, I was thinking about formulas based on defence and constitution for normal attacks (not just defence) and defence and intelligence for magic attacks.
Like (2 x def + (int *or* const depending on attack source))/3 at very least.

Constitution only as a tertiary stat. Defence will work for physical attacks and Defence + Intelligence and Constitution for magic. I would not be against keeping everything as it is either...

One more thing. I tested high level characters, it's not like they have billions of hp. But nevertheless in many games there are items that restore health/mp/stamina in percent, usually about 25, 50 and 100%, thus solving any possible problems with high level healing due to balance issues. They also considered as high level items, more expensive and rare than usual restoration items.

In our case such items should be hardcoded.

Maybe... but there is no realistic scenario where combatant has health over 400 - 500. I doubt we need this.

[Xela]

Aww, I thought you completely replaced the old BE finally 

I've been meaning to do that but there is still a lot of work to be done on the BE. Most of the stuff is working but there is at least one bug with targeting and a much needed code cleanup. More attacks, healing magic and couple extra special attacks (poison/confusion/charm) would not hurt either. Maybe some buffups as well.

I am not going to do a clean-up before I added those things because I doubt that I can come up with the structure we need before that is done.

[DarkTl]

You explained before how to make items sets, but I'm not sure where to write that line exactly. A new json perhaps?
And I'm not sure if you coded that already (I don't think so).

Constitution only as a tertiary stat. Defence will work for physical attacks and Defence + Intelligence and Constitution for magic. I would not be against keeping everything as it is either...

Well, magic should be more powerful since it requires mp after all, and elemental weaknesses are not enough. Otherwise there is no point to use it at all without such a weakness among enemies.
When you will need several stats to resist it, it's already better than nothing.

[Xela]

You explained before how to make items sets, but I'm not sure where to write that line exactly. A new json perhaps?
And I'm not sure if you coded that already (I don't think so).

If you want new JSON, it's not an issue, I'll make it work no matter what. One thing is that I am not going to do anything to activate auto-equipping of sets before the next release. You're right, I don't recall coding this in but it should not be an issue. I have a really good idea on how to re-implement items system in code but no time to make it happen

Well, magic should be more powerful since it requires mp after all, and elemental weaknesses are not enough. Otherwise there is no point to use it at all without such a weakness among enemies.
When you will need several stats to resist it, it's already better than nothing.

I disagree, at higher levels MP stops being an issue and with potions like the one that increases MP by 100 no mater what make things a bit more awkward as well. And magic is already more powerful, with the system as it stands now. But leave formulas discussions for latter time.

When you will need several stats to resist it, it's already better than nothing.

I think interesting, sometimes unique battle setups and unique AI for those setups is what makes it interesting. No amount of logic will keep making stuff interesting and we'll just be making development more difficult for ourselves.

===
- I've added our first healing spell.
- Added star-light spell with a really decent animation.
- Fixed a few other things.

I want to add one kickass area effect spell before pushing but that will take a long while so I doubt that I'll have the time to swing that until tomorrow/weekend. If you need me to do something for the items/stats, let me know and I'll try to get it done tonight.

[DarkTl]

If you need me to do something for the items/stats, let me know and I'll try to get it done tonight.

Well, spells learning for miscs and logic for sets.

Of course consumables and miscs cannot be in sets. And it's not necessarily to include rings, since we have three slots so it might cause problems for coding.

About sets and autoequipping, I'm afraid that it will lead to uniformity in equipment since everyone will try to get a full set depending on occupation. I'd rather avoid it.
There are slaves and lovers whose equipment can be controlled, so you can equip sets on them as much as you want.

[Xela]

Well, spells learning for miscs and logic for sets.

Ok, I'll see what I can do. I've been meaning to review items code a bit anyway.

[Xela]

Couple of questions:

- Are you sure that we need items sets for the nest release? Logic is not that difficult but we'll need quite a bit of gui to make it sensible as well.
- Big question: Is it sensible to switch to 16:9 resolution ratio for future development? It is now and should remain for a long while the most usable ratio.
- Is it sensible for weapons to consume fatigue? Like magic consumes MP?


===
I am adjusting some items code as well, especially since now weapons may carry more than one attack and I may have an idea for a somewhat simpler tracking of item effects than we're using today but there is some testing to be done first.

[Xela]

Turns out that I am too tired to code properly tonight. I know that coding like this ends up causing more issues the next day than it's worth so I'll do it tomorrow or most definitely this weekend.

==
Going to update to prerelease of new RenPy version tonight and see how PyTFall runs on it. There isn't anything really exciting except engine moving to SDL2, iOS support and some new features we'll prolly not going to use. But there will be more stable (and far better integrated) Android support in case we ever decide to release android version. Our game often reveals bugs that none other have due to diversity and complexity of code and features we're using.