Pink Petal Games
Game Editing And Additions => User Mods => Topic started by: 0nymous on April 25, 2015, 09:18:46 AM
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New topic dedicated to Race and Classes suggestions, related to the discussion started here: http://www.pinkpetal.org/index.php?topic=953.1320 (http://www.pinkpetal.org/index.php?topic=953.1320)
Every girl used to be something else before she was bought as a slave/kidnapped/won in an arena fight/ captured in the catacombs/ abducted by inter-dimensional pimp alien slavers.
And every girl is also her own separate species, race, genetic monstrosity or even an artificial construct, although arguably most of them would just be plain old human beings... which doesn't mean that wouldn't carry benefits on its own.
The Class and Race would represent that best instead of cluttering the already extensive trait list.
Every Class and Race should have unique and powerful benefits - since they wouldn't stack like traits did (so no bonuses for a girl being an Adventurer, Assassin and Maid at the same time, for example). This is why some of them may even seem OP.
At least that's the way I'd see it. Comment, discuss, suggest.
Basically, if you have a girl file that doesn't match any if the existing races or classes already proposed, feel free to point it out.
The list can go on.
The format of suggestions I think is best is similar to the trait ones. So:
Class/Race
Short, one to couple of lines description.
-Effects.
Here's my ideas. I took the classes and races already existing in traits (those are mostly listed last), but also did add plenty of my own.
Some, if not most, of the passive effects aren't really compatible with the current version of WM. But I added them anyways since that's what I'd like them to be. It's all open to interpretation and re-iteration in the end. The pluses or minuses in brackets indicate how powerful of an effect on a stat it should have. I'd rather do that than give flat numerical amounts as of yet.
Currently a work-in-progress, so if you find any empty spaces or lacking descriptions I'll most likely edit them in later.
Classes
Enigma
Her past is shrouded in a veil of mystery. She either doesn't remember it, doesn't want to remember it, or is hiding something.
-+1 bonus random stat or skill every turn
Homeless
Her past was hopeless. With no real family or friends, she had no stable roof under her head and basically lived on the streets.
-Lower base Confidence (-), Dignity (-) and Refinement (---)
-Lower chances of recapturing her when she escapes
Housewife
She dedicated her life to being a stay-at-home wife, which granted her some experience in housekeeping and family raising abilities.
-Higher base Cooking and Service
-+20% happiness gain when working in your house
-+10% experience gain when working in your house
Schoolgirl
She was in during some form of education, before you crushed her dreams of achieving something with your own plans.
-5% bonus to experience gains
Teacher
She used to teach people... something. Her profession taught her how to make people around more diligent.
-All girls in the same building gain a small experience bonus every turn
-Higher base Intelligence (+)
Doctor
She occupied some prestigious form of an advanced medical profession.
-Higher base Intelligence. (+)
-Higher base Medicine. (++)
Criminal
She used to be juvenile delinquent, petty thief or some other shady character living a lawless lifestyle.
-Lower base Morality (-)
-Has a chance to steal small amounts of money from clients
Crime Lord
She used to be the boss of a mafia or some other powerful criminal organization.
-Lower base Morality (--)
-Higher base Spirit, Confidence and Dignity (+)
Villainess
She was a feared mastermind of evil in her past.
-Lower base Morality (---)
-Higher base Spirit, Confidence, Dignity and Intelligence (++)
Peasant
She used to be on the lowest status class on the social structure. Poor, uneducated and with a lifetime perspective of peddling potatoes.
-Lower base Refinement (--)
Merchant
She was a salesman of something, maybe a shopkeeper. She knows good business when she sees it and is not afraid to haggle.
-Higher chance and more often item purchases
-5% to gold gain
Noble
She used to be a member of some higher social class and is used to all the privileges that come with it.
-Higher base Dignity and Refinement (++)
-Happiness will drastically decrease and Rebelliousness will increase every turn on Accommodation level lower than Wonderful while Dignity is over 30
Princess
She was an aspiring heiress to some throne. Most likely she's incredibly spoiled.
-Higher base Dignity and Refinement (+++)
-Happiness will drastically decrease and Rebelliousness will increase every turn on Accommodation level lower than High Class while Dignity is over 25
Queen
She was an esteemed female monarch of some nation or people that fell a long way from high grace.
-Higher base Dignity and Refinement (++++)
-Happiness will drastically decrease and Rebelliousness will increase every turn on Accommodation level lower than High Class while Dignity is over 20
Adventurer
Her life was filled with adventure, excitement and bold questing.
-Higher chance to escape and lower chance of recapturing
-Higher chance of finding something in the Catacombs
-More effective in combat (+)
Soldier
She was a member of some sort of military; a mere grunt, an officer or perhaps even a general, which resulted in a certain sense of discipline drilled into her.
-Higher base Spirit (+)
-Higher base Obedience (+)
-Obedience increases faster when PCHate is below 30
-More effective in combat (+)
Mercenary
She earned her living as a sellsword, selling her skills to the highest bidder.
-More effective in combat (+)
Assassin
Killing was her business and business was good... or so she'd like.
-More effective in combat (++)
-Higher base Agility (+)
Spy
Her profession in the past was espionage, both through infiltration and seduction.
-Higher base Agility (+)
-Higher base Charisma (+)
Scholar
An esteemed learner of some form of arts or sciences.
-Higher base Intelligence (++)
-5% experience bonus
Sorceress
She held the position of a powerful wielder of magic in the past.
-Higher base Intelligence (++)
-Higher base Mana (+)
-Bonuses to spellcasting
Witch
She used to be an elusive witch in her past, well acquainted with magic and natural remedies.
-Higher base Alchemy and Herbalism (++)
-Higher base Mana (+)
-Bonuses to spellcasting
Alchemist
Her job used to be concocting various potions and elixirs.
-Higher base Alchemy (+++)
-Higher base Brewing (+)
-Higher base Cooking (+)
Cultist
She was a follower of a pagan, animalistic faith. Her deity was cruel, unforgiving and bloodthirsty.
-Higher base Spirit (+)
-Higher base Libido (+)
--1 morality every turn while morality is below 50
Nun
She used to be a humble and modest worshiper of a deity of some sorts. She most likely wishes to pray daily.
-Higher base Dignity (+)
-Higher base Obedience (+)
-+1 morality every turn while morality is above 50
Priestess
She had a high position in some kind of an esteemed and proper religion.
-Higher base Dignity (++)
-Higher base Refinement (+)
-Increases the morality of all girls in the building by 1 per turn, while morality is above 60
Actress
She's was born to perform on the stage and fears no challenging movie director.
-Higher base Charisma (++)
-Bonuses to the Acting job (identical to the existing trait)
Porn Star
She has a long and famous history of working in the porn industry. Few straight men haven't seen her on screen.
-Higher base Charisma (++)
-Bonuses to the Acting job (identical to the existing trait)
Director
A skillful movie director in her past, she knows how to handle all kinds of divas and difficult actors.
-Higher base Spirit (+)
-Bonuses to the Director job (identical to the existing trait)
Chef
In her past, she was a professional performer of the culinary arts.
-Higher base Cooking (++)
-Cooking gains increased by 10%
Farm Girl
She was born, raised and worked most of her life on the farm, harvesting plants and tending to the animals.
-Higher base Animal Handling (++)
-Higher base Farming (++)
-Happiness gains increased by 10% when working on a farm.
Races
Human
Supposedly the most common, most versatile and most morally varied species of any universe.
-5% increased Experience gain
Elf
It is said all members of this pointy-eared race are born beautiful. This often makes them a victim of various mistreatment.
-10% increased Refinement gain
-10% increased Dignity gain
-Higher base Beauty (++)
Orc
While generally having a reputation of being savage barbarians and brutes, these natural warriors may exhibit a strong sense of honor and discipline.
-10% increased Strength gain
-Higher base Toughness (++)
Goblin
These small genetic cousins of orcs make up for their small stature with quick minds,nimble fingers... and often a nasty attitude.
-Higher base Intelligence (+)
-Higher base Agility (+)
Feline
Commonly known as a cat-girl, this monstergirl species exhibits various cat-like traits - ears, tails, fur and so forth.
Canine
Sometimes known as wolf-girls, this monstergirl species is related to various breeds of dogs and wolves, approrpiately enough exhibiting traits of those animals, including loyalty.
Holstaur
Reptilian
Lamia
Centaur
Harpy
Demon
Angel
Goddess
Gynoid
A construct resembling a female body, made completely out of synthetic material. More commonly known as a "sexbot'. Has no need of rest or food, aside from an occasional battery recharge.
-Tiredness always at 0
-Cannot be healed through conventional healing; requires repairs and maintenance
-Cannot be operated on in the hospital
-Cannot consume conventional food and drinks, certain consumable items would not be use-able
Shapeshifter
She has either limited or unlimited control over the shape and form of her body. This grants her tremendous flexibility in many aspects of life.
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Double post, to prevent too much shit cluttering the OP.
I just realized that I deliberately did not include the existing Cyborg trait as a Race because a Cyborg is only partially supported by or made out of technology and mechanical parts (as opposed to an android that's a completely new artificial being [gynoid being the term for female-shaped androids]). So rather than an original species/race of a girl, it's a transformation she underwent through and would classify as a normal trait.
But then I realized - wouldn't that also apply to all the undead traits as well, Zombie, Ghost, Vampire and Skeleton? Arguably some vampires could be born as vampires, but zombies, ghosts and skeletons are girls who underwent a transformation of sorts as well.
I'm a bit of at a loss here, if the new race should overwrite the original one, or if the "transformation races" should be kept merely as traits.
I think the latter is a more viable options, especially considering how for example there could be a difference between a human zombie or an elf zombie.
But I need opinions different than mine should races be limited to non-transformation kind only?
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KISS: Vampire/Undead/Cyborg/Ghost/Skeleton/Werewolf are traits. Not an actual distinct race. Specifically cause they are transformations and still ave the distinct characteristics of their original race.
IE: Orc, gets infected, becomes Orc Vampire
Elf, gets killed and raised by Necromancer, becomes Undead Elf(or Elf Skeleton).
Though... it all gets muddled once you have interracial pregnancies and what-not... do you want to do half-breeds? Or is the child always the mother's race? Or somehow figure it out as, 50% chance father's race and 50% chance girl's race?
I pick child is always the mother's race for simplicity.
IE:Human Vampire births, Human, with random % chance of inheriting Vampire infection. (Or you could set it to 0% or 100%, but you can already see that many species chance in the trait inheritance thing is not 100%.)
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I propose that interacial pregnancies should result in a child whose "Official" race listed under their name is their mother's, but who are automatically given the 'Half-Breed' trait upon birth. It makes sense to do it that way in my opinion.
Also, Onymous, its more of a minor point but under the entry for 'Cultist', I think you might possibly mean 'Animistic', not 'Animalistic'. Depending on what you were trying to say about the religion of the cult.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animism (http://www.pinkpetal.org/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animism)
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Alien as race description should also be included, even if alien is a bit vague
but you could include all the Star Wars, Mass Effect, Star Trek, ... alien girls in that race
(specific alien races would go way to far)
i'm unsure about the best bonus for this, maybe something intelligence/tech related
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KISS: Vampire/Undead/Cyborg/Ghost/Skeleton/Werewolf are traits. Not an actual distinct race. Specifically cause they are transformations and still ave the distinct characteristics of their original race.
IE: Orc, gets infected, becomes Orc Vampire
Elf, gets killed and raised by Necromancer, becomes Undead Elf(or Elf Skeleton).
We are in an agreement then.
Though... it all gets muddled once you have interracial pregnancies and what-not... do you want to do half-breeds? Or is the child always the mother's race? Or somehow figure it out as, 50% chance father's race and 50% chance girl's race?I pick child is always the mother's race for simplicity.
The Elder Scrolls games have it that way. The child always inherits the mother's race. There's no orc/elf crossbreeds. I think for the sake of simplicity (from a gameplay perspective mostly) that'd be the best solution as well.
Although the idea of "unlocking" secret crossbreed races exclusively available only as your children does sound interesting... provided the PC's race could be something else than human.
Traits are inheritable as well, so it'd make sense if some girls could be born vampires, for example.
Also, Onymous, its more of a minor point but under the entry for 'Cultist', I think you might possibly mean 'Animistic', not 'Animalistic'. Depending on what you were trying to say about the religion of the cult.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animism
Actually, I was looking for a negative connotation of something animal-like, inhuman, violent and primal. Like a cult with goat sacrifices or something.
Animalistic: adjective 1. of, relating to, or resembling an animal or animals; brutish.
Animism is a form of belief that non-human beings have souls or spirits of their own.
Alien as race description should also be included, even if alien is a bit vaguebut you could include all the Star Wars, Mass Effect, Star Trek, ... alien girls in that race(specific alien races would go way to far)i'm unsure about the best bonus for this, maybe something intelligence/tech related
Yeah, I specifically left this out for now because there's a lot of various alien species out there in science fiction.
Let's say someone has a girl file of Liara T'Soni from Mass Effect. What should her in-game race be? Just alien?
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Let's say someone has a girl file of Liara T'Soni from Mass Effect. What should her in-game race be? Just alien?
I think yes, human would be wrong and implementing specific races would be way to much work
so alien as some kind of race group would be the best solution in my opinion.
Alien could be every girl from another planet and a science fiction background, which doesn't fit any of the other races.
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KISS: Vampire/Undead/Cyborg/Ghost/Skeleton/Werewolf are traits. Not an actual distinct race. Specifically cause they are transformations and still ave the distinct characteristics of their original race.
With vampires and were-creatures, at least, there are universes where it is a distinct race rather than an affliction/transformation/curse/whathaveyou.
Every Class and Race should have unique and powerful benefits - since they wouldn't stack like traits did (so no bonuses for a girl being an Adventurer, Assassin and Maid at the same time, for example). This is why some of them may even seem OP.
What about long-lived (or simply extremely experienced) individuals who have multiple classes they would fit in? Why can't someone be a Homeless Schoolgirl - what if she lived in a city where formal education was a requirement but the government didn't care about the individual's living conditions? What if the royal bloodline always produces high-quality mages, so all Princesses received extensive magical training - would she be a Princess or a Sorceress?
As far as the classes go ... Mercenary and Adventurer are basically the same thing if you look at it from a "What do these people do?" perspective. Or Merc/Soldier.
Soldier decreasing Dignity makes no sense. Dignity should decrease slower, since effective soldiers are ones with a high sense of self-worth. Arguably, Obedience would increase slower, although simply having a high Base Obedience is another option - it depends on whether the soldier views the PC as a legitimate superior (high Obedience) or not (slow increase).
Some of them seem to be based around a "This is what I think X entails ..." without an explanation. Assassin, for example, has an AGL boost ... but that doesn't necessarily make sense. An assassin is someone who kills for money, but whether that person uses the Wookiee approach (walks up to him and rips his arms off), is a Mage, a Poisoner, or a Blade-in-the-Dark isn't a prerequisite, so simply giving 'Assassins' an AGL boost doesn't make sense.
A similar issue with the Races - Elves are automatically the refined/beautiful race, not one of the more 'savage' 'wood elf' kinds. Why are Orcs the 'honorable warrior' kind and not the 'vicious murderer' kind?
I'm curious as to why being human gets an XP bonus, too.
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Lot of fair points.
What about long-lived (or simply extremely experienced) individuals who have multiple classes they would fit in? Why can't someone be a Homeless Schoolgirl - what if she lived in a city where formal education was a requirement but the government didn't care about the individual's living conditions? What if the royal bloodline always produces high-quality mages, so all Princesses received extensive magical training - would she be a Princess or a Sorceress?
I considered this. For the sake of gameplay and balance I thought keeping one class would be the best solution. I know there's a wide variety of characters out there, that may, for example, be a goddamn ninja maid street fighter (Iroha from Samurai Shodown/Samurai Spirits). In the case of that scenario the class of a girl would be:
a: decided by her more prominent class, the one she's better at
b: if the upper can't be established, it should be the last class in her life chronologically
c: it's up to the player to decide which class fits the character best
Ultimately though, I suppose some form of multi-class system could be established. These cases should still be rarities IMO at best, and the class amount should be kept to a certain limit.
As far as the classes go ... Mercenary and Adventurer are basically the same thing if you look at it from a "What do these people do?" perspective. Or Merc/Soldier.
Are they? I can see how there may be some correlation between an adventurer and mercenary but I see certain clear distinction between the two regardless.
An adventurer is someone who, well... goes on adventures. The classic RPG primary character. He's not formally employed, but rather than that finishes quests and tasks, explores dungeons and all that kind of jazz.
A mercenary is a professional warrior who is temporarily employed for a very specific kind of work. Mercenaries usually operate in groups, more than often as soldiers for hire.
A soldier is someone in some form of governmental military organization and is on military pay.
Soldier decreasing Dignity makes no sense. Dignity should decrease slower, since effective soldiers are ones with a high sense of self-worth. Arguably, Obedience would increase slower, although simply having a high Base Obedience is another option - it depends on whether the soldier views the PC as a legitimate superior (high Obedience) or not (slow increase).
Don't know what my logic behind the Dignity modifier was at the time I wrote it. A good soldier is one that's resistant to demoralization. I changed the Soldier effects in the OP accordingly enough, they should make more sense now.
Some of them seem to be based around a "This is what I think X entails ..." without an explanation. Assassin, for example, has an AGL boost ... but that doesn't necessarily make sense. An assassin is someone who kills for money, but whether that person uses the Wookiee approach (walks up to him and rips his arms off), is a Mage, a Poisoner, or a Blade-in-the-Dark isn't a prerequisite, so simply giving 'Assassins' an AGL boost doesn't make sense.
This was more me wanting to "wrap up" all the ninja girls (because damn is there plenty of them) under the Assassin class. But I suppose you're right in the end.
Problem is - what kind of an effect would an Assassin class have except for combat effectiveness?
A similar issue with the Races - Elves are automatically the refined/beautiful race, not one of the more 'savage' 'wood elf' kinds.
I know, I know, there's dark elves, wood elves, brown elves, high elves, pale elves, blue elves, space elves, and whatever-the-fuck-else-you-want elves. I tried to condense all the elvenkind races in something common to all of them- and that's physical beauty and grace. Keep in mind these are genetic traits of their race. And they don't have higher base refinement, only higher refinement gain rate. So "savage" wood elves, for example, wouldn't necessarily be more refined from the get-go, but the potential to become refined faster is something I thought of as being a genetic advantage shared with their other knife-eared cousins.
Why are Orcs the 'honorable warrior' kind and not the 'vicious murderer' kind?
Where does it say that? The description I wrote clearly states: "Often viewed as nothing but barbarians and brutes, these natural warriors often have a strong sense of honor and discipline." Often doesn't mean always. It's more of a general description of how their race is viewed. Which I changed anyways right now. And again, their base stats are gained to higher strength only -a genetic advantage of their kind. If you want an orc that's a vicious murderer- then that's fine, except the vicious murderer part would be covered by a separate trait, not their race.
I'm curious as to why being human gets an XP bonus, too.
In most fantasy settings humans are viewed as the most adaptable, "jack of all trades" kind of species...I guess. I thought it fitting. Perhaps no bonus at all would be better but that'd be boring. If you have another suggestion for what the most common characteristic of humanity is then by all means.
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Actually, I was looking for a negative connotation of something animal-like, inhuman, violent and primal. Like a cult with goat sacrifices or something.
Animalistic: adjective 1. of, relating to, or resembling an animal or animals; brutish.
Animism is a form of belief that non-human beings have souls or spirits of their own.
Got you.
On the issue of High/Wood/Dark/Grey/Sea/Space/Hylian/Pancake/WTFyouWant Elves and the different types of aliens: It would technically be more correct to make numerous different races for each individual type of Elf/Alien/Whatever. But from a programming perspective, there's no way that's gonna happen. In this situation is is better to organize closely related races (the various elves) or groups of races defined by origin (aliens: defined as any creature from another planet) into umbrella groups for classification purposes.
A possible solution to this would be the implementation of subraces. For example, under the girl's name in the 'Race' entry it would look like:
Race: Elf, Dark or Race: Alien (Asari)
for example. The main technical issue that I can think of for this system is that there may be innumerable subraces that people could come up with. So, subraces would probably have to be customizable, and I don't know right off how that would be done. Also, it's entirely possible that subraces are just flavor text with no real gameplay effects, but with aliens in particular there might be entirely different physiologies at work which would logically result in different traits. Especially Mass Effect's Asari, considering that an Asari could be impregnated by any sex act at all. I think that would be a significant unique trait.
Finally, 'Shapeshifter' may not necessarily be a race-level trait. For example, a human mage with a self-polymorph spell, a demon who could natural change form, a construct with transformer-esque capabilities, and a magical girl or super sentai who transforms to use her powers could all be considered shapeshifters. I think this one is best left at the level of trait.
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Are they? I can see how there may be some correlation between an adventurer and mercenary but I see certain clear distinction between the two regardless.
An adventurer is someone who, well... goes on adventures. The classic RPG primary character. He's not formally employed, but rather than that finishes quests and tasks, explores dungeons and all that kind of jazz.
A mercenary is a professional warrior who is temporarily employed for a very specific kind of work. Mercenaries usually operate in groups, more than often as soldiers for hire.
A soldier is someone in some form of governmental military organization and is on military pay.
Perhaps I should have said 'skill-set,' then - a Mercenary is a professional fighter who hires himself out to others ... which means he's going to have effectively the same skills as a 'soldier' if he's more of the 'soldier-for-hire' archetype or he's going to have 'adventurer' skills if he's taking other jobs (bodyguarding or other protection work, for example). As far as the 'Adventurer' goes, if you're actually going for a realistic approach you'd be talking a jack-of-all-trades character, someone with a lot of breadth - bonuses to Medicine, to Cooking, and so on, and probably Toughness and Agility as well, because 'adventurers' are people who expect to not always have a stable base of operations. I would certainly not expect them to have a better Combat Bonus than a Fighter. 'Mercenary' would also cover individuals in guilds that you can hire for specific tasks, too - and guilds can include Magic, Thieves', and other professions as well, so using Merc as the 'generic hired fighter' class is still questionable, as is the idea that they're group-oriented.
This was more me wanting to "wrap up" all the ninja girls (because damn is there plenty of them) under the Assassin class. But I suppose you're right in the end.
Problem is - what kind of an effect would an Assassin class have except for combat effectiveness?
Possibly a Charisma boost (to represent the intimidation factor a professional murderer would have, even if he himself isn't particularly impressive), or a resistance to intimidation similar to Iron Will or Fearless. The problem is that 'Assassin' is such a broad concept you either need to go "Okay, an Assassin is XYZ with characteristics ABC and that's the way it is," or you need to split it into different groups. Or just fold 'Assassin' into another group with similar characteristics. :shrug:
I tried to condense all the elvenkind races in something common to all of them- and that's physical beauty and grace.
I would argue Charisma rather than Beauty. Maybe it's just the other fantasy I've read, but I've always figured elves should be striking, yes, and attractive, but not, strictly speaking, beautiful by human standards, because they're just this side of the Uncanny Valley.
Where does it say that? The description I wrote clearly states: "[/font]Often viewed as nothing but barbarians and brutes, these natural warriors often have a strong sense of honor and discipline." Often doesn't mean always. It's more of a general description of how their race is viewed.
If it's something that gets pointed out in an objective description as 'often,' then it's something that's common enough across their race that a similarly general overview contrasting stereotypes can simply do without the 'often.'
In most fantasy settings humans are viewed as the most adaptable, "jack of all trades" kind of species...I guess.
Which I've always found kind of silly, since half of them have a dozen varieties of elves, dwarves, and other "demihumans" wandering around in different areas ... but "humans" are always "humans." And why would such a short-lived species (relative to ... just about every other major fantasy race save the goblinoids) be the ones who have the most generalization when other species can have citizens who've lived for centuries and have more experience across a dozen fields than all the humans in Backwardsville, Nowhereland put together?
I thought it fitting. Perhaps no bonus at all would be better but that'd be boring. If you have another suggestion for what the most common characteristic of humanity is then by all means.
Eh, I was always fond of the 1E AD&D situation, myself - humans didn't have any advantages, per se ... except that they could outbreed anyone except the goblinoids, and they were tougher and better-organized than them, and that's why humans were the most common group you encountered. As far as balancing them against the other playable races, IIRC they still had no advantages, but playing as a different race gave you a disadvantage. Elves were more graceful, but had lower toughness than humans. Dwarves were tougher, but not as agile and a bit more thick-headed. And so on and so forth; your 'advantage' for being human was that you had no disadvantages, and you were part of the majority.
To put it from a different point of view ... for Elves, humans aren't as graceful, are pitifully-short-lived, and are generally crude and unsophisticated. But there are always more humans, and they're tougher individuals, and if only one in a thousand humans is the equal of an elf in his chosen field, humans have those thousands.
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In regards to the potentially endless subclassing of races: Why not create a basic races XML that loads a set of default races on a new game (CoreRaces.racex or something of the sort), but also look for custom race files in a default or user-defined directory, for modders that want to create something more specific? In the event that a character file doesn't include a race, or the given race isn't found by the game, the default could be set to human or 'unknown origin'.
The feasibility of the idea depends largely on how much assigning race actually does - whether it gives a set of traits or something much more in-depth - as well as how much impact it'd have on the game's load time, memory usage, etc.; just figured I'd put it out there.
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Perhaps I should have said 'skill-set,' then - a Mercenary is a professional fighter who hires himself out to others ... which means he's going to have effectively the same skills as a 'soldier' if he's more of the 'soldier-for-hire' archetype or he's going to have 'adventurer' skills if he's taking other jobs (bodyguarding or other protection work, for example). As far as the 'Adventurer' goes, if you're actually going for a realistic approach you'd be talking a jack-of-all-trades character, someone with a lot of breadth - bonuses to Medicine, to Cooking, and so on, and probably Toughness and Agility as well, because 'adventurers' are people who expect to not always have a stable base of operations. I would certainly not expect them to have a better Combat Bonus than a Fighter. 'Mercenary' would also cover individuals in guilds that you can hire for specific tasks, too - and guilds can include Magic, Thieves', and other professions as well, so using Merc as the 'generic hired fighter' class is still questionable, as is the idea that they're group-oriented.
You're giving this way too much technical thought. Not that you're wrong, but the classes are only meant to show a girl's background before her current "employment". There needs to be obviously some kind of generalization.
I would argue Charisma rather than Beauty. Maybe it's just the other fantasy I've read, but I've always figured elves should be striking, yes, and attractive, but not, strictly speaking, beautiful by human standards, because they're just this side of the Uncanny Valley.
That sounds strange to me. In nearly every single setting, from original Tolkien, to Forgotten Realms, to The Witcher, etc. elves are clearly defined as naturally fair and beautiful.
Strictly speaking, charisma has almost nothing to do with physical beauty (although being beautiful/handsome does help). It's either a talent or a learned skill. Hitler wasn't exactly an exemplar of human attractiveness, but he was unfortunately charismatic as fuck.
Eh, I was always fond of the 1E AD&D situation, myself - humans didn't have any advantages, per se ... except that they could outbreed anyone except the goblinoids
Well, we're not really operating under AD&D rulebooks, regardless of the edition.
It would be a tangible solution to give humans some small fertility bonus though. I still think the small experience gain bonus is fitting. Think about it - precisely because there's so many older and more experienced races around them, humans have to make up for their short lifespans with quicker adaptability and learning capabilities. A possible solution to this would be the implementation of subraces. For example, under the girl's name in the 'Race' entry it would look like:Race: Elf, Dark or Race: Alien (Asari)
The way I saw it, it would just be solved by adding appropriate lines in the girl's description.
Same way, skin color, eye color and all the other non-defined traits with no tangible effects were handled.
But yes, you're spot-on when you say there's alien races out there with weird physiology, like the Asari space-magic reproduction system.
In regards to the potentially endless subclassing of races: Why not create a basic races XML that loads a set of default races on a new game (CoreRaces.racex or something of the sort), but also look for custom race files in a default or user-defined directory, for modders that want to create something more specific? In the event that a character file doesn't include a race, or the given race isn't found by the game, the default could be set to human or 'unknown origin'.
Full customization would be nice. Everybody cold write their own interpretation of how races/classes would work. I can't speak for it though since I don't do the coding around here. I'd imagine it could be added alongside customize-able traits, since that's what essentially the races and classes are.
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You're giving this way too much technical thought. Not that you're wrong, but the classes are only meant to show a girl's background before her current "employment". There needs to be obviously some kind of generalization.
You have three classes that amount to "This person used to hit things with weapons." Mercenary, Soldier, and Fighter? At least with Assassin and Adventurer there's leeway for those individuals who don't just use weapons. I just keep looking at the premise, and then I see something that gets vague and specific at different points. You have the issues I've brought up, you have the religious groups which automatically assume the dominant religion is the nice one and the "cultists" had the cruel one (Libido boost? Why?). Why wouldn't the Priestess (or a variant) increase the Obedience or lower the Rebelliousness of girls? Surely some god/goddess is in favor of slavery, and a lot of the rest don't mind it, or else it wouldn't have the foothold it does. You have 'witch' as a specific interpretation, instead of just being another magic user.
I admit that some of my objects probably stem from the notion of 'imposing' a certain viewpoint on Crossgate instead of leaving it more undefined. That's not what you were going for, I think, but it is something that I think about when things like this pop up.
[quoteThat sounds strange to me. In nearly every single setting, from original Tolkien, to Forgotten Realms, to The Witcher, etc. elves are clearly defined as naturally fair and [/font]beautiful.
Strictly speaking, charisma has almost nothing to do with physical beauty (although being beautiful/handsome does help). It's either a talent or a learned skill. Hitler wasn't exactly an exemplar of human attractiveness, but he was unfortunately charismatic as fuck.[/quote]
Well, like I said, it could just be the other stuff I've read, particularly recently - Discworld elves, for example, certainly aren't physically attractive. In the Memory, Sorrow, Thorn trilogy, IIRC, the Sithi/Norns are beautiful, but the Norns especially are also eerie-looking, and going back to Norse mythology, you have the "Light Elf" and "Dark Elf" split, where the "Light Elves" were fair in appearance, but the "Dark Elves" were swarthy. Eldar, too, are supposed to be just a bit off from human notions to be truly beautiful, since they're generally more graceful and beautiful than humans are comfortable with, giving you more of the Uncanny Valley effect. Then you get the weird ones, like how Elder Scrolls 'Orcs' are just another elf sub-race, or the ES 'Dwarves' (much like Norse "Black Elves" are believed to just be another term for dwarves), or the elves (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=146169) of Lorwyn.
Also, in my mind, elves get associated more with longevity and magic use rather than attractiveness, so focusing on just the appearance seems to me to be doing them a disservice.
I still think the small experience gain bonus is fitting. Think about it - precisely because there's so many older and more experienced races around them, humans have to make up for their short lifespans with quicker adaptability and learning capabilities. [/font]
Yeah, I mean ... I don't really have a problem with it, it's just kind of a boring advantage that sort of makes sense. It seems like it's more of a "well, here's a generic bonus so humans aren't useless." I don't think you can really balance the races without reworking the system, though ... especially since when everyone has the same caps, the one who can grow the fastest anywhere is the most powerful. Yeah, Elves start off more beautiful, and Orcs gain strength faster, but if you pit the two of them and a human in a race to see who can hit all the caps first, the human should win. :shrug:
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Man, I'm not some kind of official designer for Whoremaster, I don't get any ultimate, carved-in-stone say into what gets into the game and what doesn't, hell, I don't even know if the race/class system has any chance of being implemented at all so far.
I'm just a useless idea guy. I never said my ideas have to be the best or the only ones. You got your own ideas about classes or potential improvements to my suggestions? Go right ahead and just write them ITT. I can't argue with opinions. Although I do, in fact, appreciate the discussion nevertheless.
You have three classes that amount to "This person used to hit things with weapons." Mercenary, Soldier, and Fighter?
If you don't know what the difference between a mercenary and a soldier in governmental military is then I honestly don't know what to tell you.
"This person used to hit things for out of pure greed for payment."
"This person used to hit things when ordered by a superior in a military uniform."
"This person used to hit other persons on the street fights or otherwise organised brawling competitions."
The Fighter class was strictly meant for all the girls out of fighting videogames (and there is a LOT of them: DoA, Street Fighter, Blazblue, KoF, and so on and so forth)
Should we just huddle up all these distinct professions into some kind of single "Warrior" class?
You have the issues I've brought up, you have the religious groups which automatically assume the dominant religion is the nice one and the "cultists" had the cruel one (Libido boost? Why?).
Because there are pagan cults out there that have ritualistic orgies and whatnot and because the concepts of sexual purity and celibacy are commonly associated with more elevated and civilized religions.
Surely some god/goddess is in favor of slavery, and a lot of the rest don't mind it, or else it wouldn't have the foothold it does.
If you want to make an entire pantheon of classes for priestesses for fifty different gods with extremely diverse ideologies and beliefs, by all means.
The Priestess class was meant to be as ambiguous as possible for a good-aligned religion akin to Christianity, but never stated in the end. The specific religion the girl in question would follow would be left up to her description.
I guess we could establish a couple or more "official" existing gods in the Crossgate universe, but then it comes to question as to who exactly would responsible for all the lore and writing for Whoremaster.
Well, like I said, it could just be the other stuff I've read, particularly recently - Discworld elves, for example, certainly aren't physically attractive. In the Memory, Sorrow, Thorn trilogy, IIRC, the Sithi/Norns are beautiful, but the Norns especially are also eerie-looking, and going back to Norse mythology, you have the "Light Elf" and "Dark Elf" split, where the "Light Elves" were fair in appearance, but the "Dark Elves" were swarthy. Eldar, too, are supposed to be just a bit off from human notions to be truly beautiful, since they're generally more graceful and beautiful than humans are comfortable with, giving you more of the Uncanny Valley effect. Then you get the weird ones, like how Elder Scrolls 'Orcs' are just another elf sub-race, or the ES 'Dwarves' (much like Norse "Black Elves" are believed to just be another term for dwarves), or the elves (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=146169) of Lorwyn.
Let's not get into different elf kinds in all kinds of fantasy settings, please. Like I mentioned, there's an incredible variety of them and they can't possibly all fit a single common ground. The bottom line is, most major settings have Elves as being physically superior to other species' in terms of beauty and grace.
Again, if you've got ideas about different elf races then just propose them.
Also, in my mind, elves get associated more with longevity and magic use rather than attractiveness, so focusing on just the appearance seems to me to be doing them a disservice.
Longevity should be naturally tied to race, but I haven't touched it yet because I have no clue what the lifespans of the races from gameplay perspective should be. Magic capabilites should be more of a matter of traits and classes.
To quote you in your previous post... what about the more savage elves, like wood elves? They aren't particularly associated with magical skills, they're more of an archer/nomad people.
Yeah, I mean ... I don't really have a problem with it, it's just kind of a boring advantage that sort of makes sense. It seems like it's more of a "well, here's a generic bonus so humans aren't useless."
Then it fits, doesn't it, as in most (MMO)RPG games, humans are usually the most generic race out of all choices.
Still open for ideas about a non-boring advantage for humans though, if you've got one.
Yeah, Elves start off more beautiful, and Orcs gain strength faster, but if you pit the two of them and a human in a race to see who can hit all the caps first, the human should win
In the long run, maybe. But in the beginning they're at a severe disadvantage. It's called balance.
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The Priestess class was meant to be as ambiguous as possible for a good-aligned religion akin to Christianity
LoL
Christianity is not anti-slavery, modern society is ;) Both Old and New Testaments accept slavery as a given and Old Testament sets out pretty messed up rules/examples for it. So you've got "good" (if you meant being opposite to the quote in your post) -"aligned" a bit mixed up.
For this:
Surely some god/goddess is in favor of slavery, and a lot of the rest don't mind it, or else it wouldn't have the foothold it does.
Christianity wouldn't be a bad fit, other than a word "Goddess/Priestess" (due to discrimination of gender and all...).
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Otherwise:
It's close to impossible to create enough written content for all possible races/sources so generalize and think of the ways to make these new traits relevant to the game, how to set them apart in the interface and during events/interactions.
If you want anything to be part of the game, try to fit it into the logic/events/jobs of the game, at least how you see/feel it's logic working when playing it.
*I am having fun reading this, we're working on the same classes/races thing in PyTFall atm.
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You got your own ideas about classes or potential improvements to my suggestions? Go right ahead and just write them ITT. I can't argue with opinions. Although I do, in fact, appreciate the discussion nevertheless.
Well, given that that's what I'm doing .... I mean, the idea of the topic is, basically, "What do you think about X?" and I'm responding "I think Y is a better idea."
If you don't know what the difference between a mercenary and a soldier in governmental military is then I honestly don't know what to tell you.
As far as abilities and reasonable effects go, there isn't one. My point, however, was that you were complaining about my being "too specific" when you have three classes that resolve around using weapons, and the difference between them is an arbitrary, specific definition. The difference between a 'soldier' and a 'mercenary'? One is hired by various people/groups as needed, the other is permanently employed by a government body.
"This person used to hit things for out of pure greed for payment."
"This person used to hit things when ordered by a superior in a military uniform."
Ignoring that some people become mercenaries because they're not good at anything else, or that long-term mercenaries that serve as the military arm of a government body exist, or that people can become soldiers out of greed or simply because it pays .... There's no reason to keep them separate.
"This person used to hit other persons on the street fights or otherwise organised brawling competitions."
And it's a purely arbitrary definition - one that might work if the combat system were greatly expanded and a distinction was made between the fighting styles practiced by a non-lethal fighter (which this definition implies, although not the one in the OP) and the styles used for lethal intent. As is, it seems redundant.
Should we just huddle up all these distinct professions into some kind of single "Warrior" class?
At least, I'd merge Soldier and Mercenary, since I can't figure out how you'd make a meaningful distinction between the two. They're both individuals who get paid to fight, the only real difference is who's hiring them and length of contract. Skills should be pretty much the same for given area.
Because there are pagan cults out there that have ritualistic orgies and whatnot
Really? Can you name me three or four? I'm honestly curious, because apart from the Bacchanalia (... spelling probably wrong), which probably wasn't all that orgiastic, I'm drawing a blank. That aside, though,
"She was a follower of a pagan, animalistic faith. Her deity was cruel, unforgiving and bloodthirsty. "
certainly doesn't imply that she was a member of that sort of group. Seems more the kind to either be cowering (because if she does something wrong she dies horribly), or controlling and perfectly willing to slip a knife through someone's ribs. The attributes you're assigning don't match up with the description.
Magic capabilites should be more of a matter of traits and classes. [/size]
Unless said capabilities are simply due to being of that particular race. *Looks at Touhou, where "Magician" is a species of youkai as well as a profession*
To quote you in your previous post... what about the more savage elves, like wood elves? They aren't particularly associated with magical skills, they're more of an archer/nomad people.
Being an archer/nomad culture doesn't mean you don't have magic - it might mean that you focus on other skills (if your magic isn't suitable for your lifestyle) or you focus your magic in other directions (weather control, tending to livestock or healing, equipment, etc). Note that the former option doesn't mean they don't have the same talent as their more 'civilized' kin, simply that they choose to not express or use it.
Then it fits, doesn't it, as in most (MMO)RPG games, humans are usually the most generic race out of all choices.
It just strikes me as something they tossed in for 'balance' reasons. As far as an actual advantage, though ... :shrug: The ones I can think of would require some kind of overhaul or reworking of something, and would probably introduce a disadvantage to non-humans. Something like customers who prefer humans being more common, since (for example) elves or humans who prefer elves are more of a minority, but the minority also happens to be wealthier on average, so elven girls would bring in more per customer. But that would require adjusting (if not reworking) the customer preference system, and would need to grant a bonus (or penalty) to income based on race (which might be doable in the current system, but I don't know programming so :/).
It's also a bit amusing because it reflects my own bias (that humans generally would prefer their own kind rather than elf/dwarf/whatever), and that's what I've been complaining about this topic doing :P
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The Fighter class was strictly meant for all the girls out of fighting videogames (and there is a LOT of them: DoA, Street Fighter, Blazblue, KoF, and so on and so forth)
An issue with this line of reasoning is that for some of them it's not really 'true' so far as I know. For example, BlazBlue - Makoto and Noel are investigators for the local government, IIRC, and Rachel's some sort of entity who helps make sure the world continues. They aren't part of some fighting tournament, that's just how the game is set up. In Mortal Kombat, Sonya's a special forces agent, Kitana's a princess, Mileena's an assassin. It works for some games, but not others.
Let's not get into different elf kinds in all kinds of fantasy settings, please. Like I mentioned, there's an incredible variety of them and they can't possibly all fit a single common ground. The bottom line is, most major settings have Elves as being physically superior to other species' in terms of beauty and grace.
Without actually going into all the different settings, it's rather difficult to make the claim that elves are 'normally' more beautiful than other species.
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God damn did we write way too many words for a way too insignificant issue. Oh well.
Why do you insist on taking every single little detail and exception into account? What part of "generalization" don't you understand?
And again, where are your propositions of new classes/races to account for those things you're pointing out?I feel like I'm fighting windmills here. Anything I say you absolutely HAVE to reply to and disagree with. Again, I can't justify opinions. If you think yours are better - write a class/race, its description and its in-game effects. You can even copy my own list, edit it and paste it yourself! Isn't that simpler than writing walls of text of analysis trying to search for my own reasons as to why I wrote something?
Christianity is not anti-slavery, modern society is ;) Both Old and New Testaments accept slavery as a given and Old Testament sets out pretty messed up rules/examples for it. So you've got "good" (if you meant being opposite to the quote in your post) -"aligned" a bit mixed up.
Let's not get into theological details. I thought others would know what I meant.
By "akin to Christianity" I didn't mean "like Christianity". I meant more the structure of the Catholic church in addition to being morally good I suppose.
Well, given that that's what I'm doing .... I mean, the idea of the topic is, basically, "What do you think about X?" and I'm responding "I think Y is a better idea."
You haven't proposed a single new idea or re-iteration of my ideas even once, all you wrote is "I think this is bad because..." without giving any different suggestions or solutions whatsoever.
Take my class/race idea that you don't agree with and re-write it to what you seem fit. Criticizing is fine... but doing just criticizing alone for a while gets tedious.
Especially when it's up to opinions in the end.
Offer some alternatives.
Really? Can you name me three or four? I'm honestly curious, because apart from the Bacchanalia (... spelling probably wrong), which probably wasn't all that orgiastic, I'm drawing a blank. That aside, though, "She was a follower of a pagan, animalistic faith. Her deity was cruel, unforgiving and bloodthirsty. "certainly doesn't imply that she was a member of that sort of group. Seems more the kind to either be cowering (because if she does something wrong she dies horribly), or controlling and perfectly willing to slip a knife through someone's ribs. The attributes you're assigning don't match up with the description.
Do I really need real-life historical examples to explain something I basically near-made up for a fictional setting? Fine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dionysian_Mysteries (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dionysian_Mysteries)
http://followtherabbi.com/guide/detail/fertility-cults-of-canaan (http://followtherabbi.com/guide/detail/fertility-cults-of-canaan)
http://www.darkestnightmovie.com/BaphometCult.html (http://www.darkestnightmovie.com/BaphometCult.html)
http://www.sexualfables.com/Sex-Orgies-as-Fertility-Rites.php (http://www.sexualfables.com/Sex-Orgies-as-Fertility-Rites.php)
And before you investigate each link, I'll have you know I based this on something I saw in various fiction instead of real life. And my own whim.
Unless said capabilities are simply due to being of that particular race. *Looks at Touhou, where "Magician" is a species of youkai as well as a profession*
Yeah I know you're talking about Patchouli, and I honestly don't know what to do with a one-of-a-kind character like that. I'd imagine some kind of workaround would be needed and I'd personally just classify her as Human Sorceress. Even though she's officially stated to be a witch (except the Japanese have a really different appropriated concept of witches than we do and it's just nitpicking the details again)
Being an archer/nomad culture doesn't mean you don't have magic - it might mean that you focus on other skills (if your magic isn't suitable for your lifestyle) or you focus your magic in other directions (weather control, tending to livestock or healing, equipment, etc). Note that the former option doesn't mean they don't have the same talent as their more 'civilized' kin, simply that they choose to not express or use it.
Oh come on. I know that. You're over-analyzing now. So orcs should get a magic boost too, because what, being a warrior/noble savage/barbarian/whatever the fuck culture "doesn't mean you don't have magic"?
The point is the GENERAL, STEREOTYPICAL aspects and characteristics of a race or class that prevails in various fiction.
In various fiction, the GENERAL and STEREOTYPICAL characteristics of all elves(within that setting) is that they're beautiful, slender, graceful etc.
If that doesn't satisfy you, then consider "Just because" as my reasoning.
Ignoring that some people become mercenaries because they're not good at anything else, or that long-term mercenaries that serve as the military arm of a government body exist, or that people can become soldiers out of greed or simply because it pays .... There's no reason to keep them separate.
[quote author]At least, I'd merge Soldier and Mercenary, since I can't figure out how you'd make a meaningful distinction between the two. They're both individuals who get paid to fight, the only real difference is who's hiring them and length of contract. Skills should be pretty much the same for given area.[/quote]
Well, I do think there is a pretty meaningful distinction between the two. If you disagree, give me a name, description and effects of these two classes merged into one.
As far as an actual advantage, though ... :shrug: The ones I can think of would require some kind of overhaul or reworking of something, and would probably introduce a disadvantage to non-humans. Something like customers who prefer humans being more common, since (for example) elves or humans who prefer elves are more of a minority, but the minority also happens to be wealthier on average, so elven girls would bring in more per customer. But that would require adjusting (if not reworking) the customer preference system, and would need to grant a bonus (or penalty) to income based on race (which might be doable in the current system, but I don't know programming so :/).
Me neither. But I have an effect that I know would be easy to code in and subjectively makes sense to me; 5% experience gains bonus.
I also seriously hope you didn't just imply that the majority of humans would prefer other humans instead of elves when it comes to choosing a whore. That's just bullshit according to my top notch quality scientific sources, such as hentai manga and doujins.
An issue with this line of reasoning is that for some of them it's not really 'true' so far as I know. For example, BlazBlue - Makoto and Noel are investigators for the local government, IIRC, and Rachel's some sort of entity who helps make sure the world continues. They aren't part of some fighting tournament, that's just how the game is set up. In Mortal Kombat, Sonya's a special forces agent, Kitana's a princess, Mileena's an assassin. It works for some games, but not others.
That's a logical argument that I agree with. Most of these characters do have some other form of occupation other than being ass-kickers.
The fighter class was considered for those that wouldn't. But I honestly can't think on the top of my head of any female characters like that. Even the DoA girls are mostly ninjas or something.
No idea how you'd like "some sort of entity who helps make sure the world continues" classified in the game though. I'd just classify Rachel under the Noble class.
Figher or Brawler should feasibly just be traits. Point taken.
Without actually going into all the different settings, it's rather difficult to make the claim that elves are 'normally' more beautiful than other species.
No, it's actually very easy. Elves have pointy ears, and are pretty. In 90% of fantasy settings. That were sometimes inspired by real-life mythology. Which doesn't have much to do with what we're discussing here.
Write all the elven sub-species you desire if it bothers you this much. Really, dude, you can. You have my permission. Hell, you have my encouragement!
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Don't write stuff like:
By "akin to Christianity" I didn't mean "like Christianity". I meant more the structure of the Catholic church in addition to being morally good I suppose.
paired with:
Let's not get into theological details.
"Catholic Church" and "Good morality" and "Everyone will understand" used in one post will not lead anywhere pleasant and I'd bury you in a really good debate on this topic but that's not what the thread is about.
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Everything is quoted as "Xela wrote:" :(
I just wrote one bit of the stuff you've quoted.
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Keep the fedora on your head, I don't plan on taking any stances on religion on this forum and you shouldn't either.
If anything though the sentence "Catholic church in addition to being morally good" would imply that the Catholic church isn't inherently tied with proper morality in any way so I don't know what exactly ticked you off.
Everything is quoted as "Xela wrote:" :( I just wrote one bit of the stuff you've quoted.
Goddamnit that's what happens when you use Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V without paying attention.
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Keep the discussion going but keep it civil.
Here is some of my background to let you know where I am coming from:
My threshold of cognitive dissonance is extremely high (or low depending on how you see it :P ) so I can work with any rules and make them work together.
I have generally played AD&D 2nd edition with some AD&D and some early 3rd edition rules mixed in.
I also played White Wolf RPGs (pre WoC) and Exalted that use stat/skills as 0-10 dots and roll (stat + skill)d10 : success >=7.
I do not really play any of the MMO games that have been mentioned and I don't really watch too much anime so some of the specifics of races mentioned in them I can't say too much about.
Most jobs in Whore Master use Job Performance = (Main (0-100)) + (Secondary (0-100)) + Level + Traits.
Main is usually 1 or 2 stats/skills averaged and secondary can be 2, 3, 4 or more averaged.
When it comes to races, I generally go by AD&D2e rules.
Humans have no limits while most races have some limitations on what they can do.
In some AD&D versions, nonhuman races are limited in what class they can be and then what level they can max out at. (I never really liked those rules.)
Some races would not be allowed to get certain traits, Dwarves can't get Powerful Magic, Elves can't get Broodmother, etc.
While nothing is absolutely forbidden, they would require more detail and trials to allow, Pikel Bouldershoulder, a Dwarven Druid, is my favorite example.
Humans make up probably 75%+ of Crossgate's population and they are generally 90%+ of the ruling class.
While individuals of different races may hold a few positions of power, they generally have mostly human staff and some 'other race' managers.
The Catacombs can have any race because it is a constantly changing magical portal factory.
Anything can get pulled in and thrown out from anywhere.
There could be Elves from Krynn (Dragonlance), Elves from Athas (Dark Sun), or Elves from Norse Mythology.
While there are hundreds of subraces of Elves, they are generally described as "magically inclined, long lived humanoids with pointy ears."
An Elven Muggle would be extremely rare but not unheard of.
Whether they are "beautiful" is in the eye of the beholder, to an Orc they are scrawny pale stick people.
WM generally goes by the dominent Human perspective for looks so Elves would in general be good looking but not excessivly so.
White Wolf's RPG Vampire has several clans of vampires each with different powers, looks, quirks, rules etc.
Similarly Werewolf and other were-creatures also have several subdivisions.
Soldier is to Mercenary as High School Student is to College Student.
While many cultures require some military service/common education, some people choose to extend their service/schooling to get more money out of it.
If a person is in the military, whether in training or fresh out on the field of battle, they are Soldiers, as they gain rank, they are still Soldiers.
When they finish their service, they can:
- Stay in the same military for more tours of duty and continue being a Soldier,
- End their service entirely and become a Militia (wo)man, able to fight when needed but without any more combat training.
- Leave their previous commanders and hire themselves out for money as either a lone wolf or in a team of Mercenaries,
- Get more specialized training and become an Assassin, Ninja, War Mage, etc.
I see Soldiers as having all the same basic training as all other Soldiers.
Mercenaries are Soldiers working for anyone who has the money with little or no loyalty to stay when the money runs out.
And whatever specialist fighter classes can be Soldiers or Mercenaries being specially trained in a certain area of combat.
Soldiers would have:
- Increased Morality - They are fighting for a cause, whether it is King and Country or defense of their friends and family.
- Increased Obedience - Regimented training with punishment for failure.
- Increased Service - Keep your equipment clean and ready for use.
? Decreased Intelligence, Confidence or Spirit ? Possibly all the focus on training the physical does not allow much for the mental?
Mercenary would have adjustments based on accommodation and pay
- Obedience - The more they get, the more they give. If you don't treat them well, they may turn on you or leave.
- Morality - If you are evil, your henchmen will lean in that direction. If you are good, they will be more helpful to others.
A lone Soldier on a field against a lone Mercenary, the Mercenary would probably win.
A group of Soldiers who have trained together and are fighting for the same cause would probably win against an equally equipped group of Mercenaries who are doing it just for the money.
Probably the easiest way would be Base Class with Sub-Class, two classes, one being primary, the other being secondary.
A Fighter who is trained in magic would be Fighter/War Mage but a Mage trained in weapons could also be Mage/War Mage.
Assassin could be a sub class of Fighter, Mage or Thief depending on what method they prefer for their kills.
- Thief/Assassin - "Kill and get out without being spotted"
- Mage/Assassin - "Teleport in, kill, teleport out"
- Fighter/Assassin - "Kill anyone to get to the target without raising the alarm"
- Mechanic/Assassin - sabotage the King's Starship to make it crash or explode.
- Whore/Assassin - Black Widows, they lay and slay.
As with most of the game's code, the hardest part is the text.
While the C++ language has only a few hundred words and a structured layout, English has billions of words and very chaotic structure.
The more text you can write, the less we need to add when coding it into the game.
Generalization is needed in WM unless you can write every variation you want.
Make a few templates that use identical formatting so I can make a set of rules for input into the game.
Keep the discussion going but keep it civil.
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*Prolly watching too much Dawkins, Kraus and Maher :)
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I think that class/race traits are needed and should be part of the game...
Can traits be created thought XML in modern WM? Or are they still hardcoded? If it's XML, it wouldn't be hard to tweak or even add new class/race traits and custom content for them through scripts. Default gamebuild should only deal with them in a form that makes sense for development and gameplay.
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Can traits be created thought XML in modern WM? Or are they still hardcoded? If it's XML, it wouldn't be hard to tweak or even add new class/race traits and custom content for them through scripts. Default gamebuild should only deal with them in a form that makes sense for development and gameplay.
Currently they are still hard coded but I have started converting them to XML.
I keep getting distracted so it is taking a while before I can get back to it.
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Well... this needs to be flexible enough to be future proof at the least. Changing stuff all the time costs development time for devs and modding time for modders. That's why I suggested to keep the discussion closer to the game.
If it is going to be xml at some point, it's all good. Best system is the one that will allow some personal customization, maybe at least partly based on the source.
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Thanks for popping in, aevo.
If I come off as aggressive in my posts it's probably because I'm too used to snarky banter on anonymous imageboards. I mean no offense to anyone.
I think that class/race traits are needed and should be part of the game...
Well, to be fair, I specifically made this topic as an attempt to split traits from races and classes to avoid inter-mixing those three, which made the trait list very lengthy.
Practically though, races and classes I'd imagine would serve a function identical to traits. They'd just have their own special categories in the girl's description.
Probably the easiest way would be Base Class with Sub-Class, two classes, one being primary, the other being secondary.
So, a dual class system. I'm fine with that.
Some races would not be allowed to get certain traits, Dwarves can't get Powerful Magic, Elves can't get Broodmother, etc.
I get the first example, since dwarves are for some reason commonly the "can't into magic" race (who are experts in "runes" instead WHICH TOTALLY ISN'T MAGIC GUYS), but why no Broodmother for elves?
Whore/Assassin - Black Widows, they lay and slay.
So, like a kunoichi/female ninja?
I wanted to avoid any class resembling a courtesan or whore, since in the game Whoremaster all of the girls are, more or less, whores employed by you. I saw the class systems as something describing their life before they were "employed" by the PC. But now that I think of it, who says they couldn't be whores before that as well?
I gotta say though, a nod of amusement in your direction for the "lay and slay" if you came up with that yourself.
Whether they are "beautiful" is in the eye of the beholder, to an Orc they are scrawny pale stick people.
I'll have you know that, according to my Viable Scientific Source of Hentai Manga and Doujins, elven females are pretty popular amongst orcs.
And I get the whole "beauty in the eye of the beholder" thing, but I'll adamantly stand by my belief that all elven races are stereotypically at least partially defined by being born beautiful.
White Wolf's RPG Vampire has several clans of vampires each with different powers, looks, quirks, rules etc.
Bottom line is though, whether you're Tremere or Nosferatu, Brujah or Venture, you still need to suck blood to un-live, you have fangs to help you with that, and the sun fucks you up. I say, let's keep the race gameplay effects as simple as that and leave the details to every girl's individual description.
I don't think there's any Twilight enthusiasts here who'd want sparkling vampires.
Soldiers would have:
- Increased Morality - They are fighting for a cause, whether it is King and Country or defense of their friends and family.
Now this I'd have to disagree with. Soldiers fight because they are ordered to. What defines a soldier, according to me, is strict discipline and military drill. More idealistic soldiers do fight for their nation/families etc., but in the end a soldier that disobeys the orders of his superiors, however cruel or inhuman they may be - is a shitty soldier.
As with most of the game's code, the hardest part is the text.While the C++ language has only a few hundred words and a structured layout, English has billions of words and very chaotic structure.The more text you can write, the less we need to add when coding it into the game.
What do you mean by that?
Best system is the one that will allow some personal customization, maybe at least partly based on the source.
Literally the same thing I've been saying since I made an account here and probably the reason why I did it in the first place.
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If I come off as aggressive in my posts it's probably because I'm too used to snarky banter on anonymous imageboards. I mean no offense to anyone.
Snarky banter can be funny and I have no problem with it.
There is no need to try not to offend me, I'm pretty much immune to it.
I get the first example, since dwarves are for some reason commonly the "can't into magic" race (who are experts in "runes" instead WHICH TOTALLY ISN'T MAGIC GUYS), but why no Broodmother for elves?
In most of the books I have read and games I have played, Elves with multiple births have always been rare.
Elves of D&D have a 2 year gestation period and while twins are uncommon, 3 or more are extremely rare.
In races that are naturally long lived, spreading out the birth of children allows for better raising of them.
As I say, nothing is impossible but limitations can balance things out a bit.
As with most of the game's code, the hardest part is the text.
While the C++ language has only a few hundred words and a structured layout, English has billions of words and very chaotic structure.
The more text you can write, the less we need to add when coding it into the game.
What do you mean by that?
I can do code fairly easily but coming up with the text and variations on them can take more time.
If someone else writes the text, I can code around it and make it work.
When variations on the text are needed, the more the writers can write, the less I have to add in order to branch off the original.
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As far as Elves are concerned, they are typically seen as being more "fair" and "beautiful" than humans, so a small boost to beauty is not out of the question. As for their longevity, I don't really see a way to implement it to where it would actually affect stats. I would however, suggest that Elves' fertility rate be dropped. This seems in line with most fantasy depictions of elves, like Elrond only having two or three kids despite being untold hundreds of years old.
For the argument of Elves not being "Beautiful" because they are in the uncanny valley. Elves' beauty is often (but not always) explained as being a kind of "otherworldy" or otherwise magical type of thing, not that they are necessarily beautiful by human standards, but their nature just makes them seem that way. Now, as far as in-game effects are concerned, "Charisma" represents features other than physical beauty that make a girl more attractive. So a boost to charisma would be more appropriate for Elven beauty than the actual beauty stat.
In conclusion, the Stat changes for the "Elf" race I propose:
+5 to 10 charisma, -3% fertility (as a percent of the specified value in config.xml)
Optional: Elves get their age automatically set to 100 (which returns in-game as 'unknown') to reflect a situation where elves don't leave their communities until they come of age-after a century or so.
Note that the specific values of how low or high to change charisma and fertility are not set in stone and are open to discussion.
As far as Soldier vs. Mercenary I agree with Aevo. Whether or not they fight for country or profit, they would both basically have the same training and fighting capability. As far as stat changes go, that would make them the same.
However, with subclasses in the room, the problem is handily wrapped up.
CLASS: Fighter
-increased combat ability
- subclass: Soldier: increased obedience, morality, and service.
- subclass: Mercenary: obedience and morality affected by pay rate and player morality
- subclass: Martial Artist (or Brawler): [open]
- subclass: Others we can think of (Assassin and War Mage were already mentioned. Possibly Barbarian or Nomad Warrior, Gladiator for arena specialists, or Knight reflecting a warrior of noble birth who fights for a code of honor with a combat emphasis on armor)
or something like that.
I also notice that there is no 'Magical Girl' class for characters like Sailor Moon, Pretty Cures, ect. Given that we are playing with the idea of sub-classes, it would probably go under 'Magician', but here's my entry for it:
Magical Girl
A young girl who was given the ability to transform in order to perform magic. They usually fight monsters to protect people, but there are also dark magical girls.
-Higher base Mana (+)
-Bonuses to spellcasting
-Higher base constitution (+++, most magical girls can get thrown through walls and only take minimal damage)
-'Lolita' automatically added (Optional)
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And for the heck of it I'll throw my opinion in here too :)
In regards to "should soldiers get boosted morality?" I think if we can't agree then perhaps further split them into soldier and militia perhaps?
So the one fights professionally and the other fights to protect their homes, therefore the militia could get the morality bonus perhaps, but less of a combat boost due to not being in what would be considered 'active service'.
As for the discussion on what generically defines Elves, I would agree with MMeer. They are not necessarily the height of beauty in a physical sense, but rather they are very gracefully and they have a very 'otherworldly' quality to them *shrugs*, not sure on how to implement that exactly but perhaps as MMeer said a small CHA boost and 'Great Figure' or something?
With mercenarys I think that it's true that in regards to the 'starting point' I guess you could call it would be the same (as most mercenary's start of as normal soldiers). Perhaps have Soldier as the overhanging archetype and as I said above have subclasses such as mercenary (player disposition has more of an effect), militia (increased morallity ect.), knight (even tougher still, maybe morality here two :-[ ?) , yadayada.
Just my two pence.
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I'm mostly basing this on disney type faeries. Not so much as the Shakespearean kind.
Fairy
A magical being that is commonly found places where nature has been left untouched. Resembles a human save for their wings and very small size. Their wings produce an addictive drug if ground into dust.
> Flight
> Delicate
> +5-10 Herbalism
> +0-5 Animal handling
> If one in you possession should die some Fairy dust is added to your inventory
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Low fertility rates of elves are usually a result of their longevity. In order to "counter" the fact that they live long, nature doesn't allow them to breed excessively, to avoid overpopulation.
Contrary to humans, who are basically THE race who out-fuck and out-murder everyone and end up as the dominant species.
This could be easily(?) be solved by raising maximum age above 100. But... then we go straight back to the discussion about various elves in various settings, and as to what in-game age average for elves should be. Since classic Tolkien elves, for example, are practically immortal. Maybe instead of numerical numbers, set the age indicators as descriptive indicators, similar to the breast/butt size system? So, Young, Middle-Aged, Mature, Old, Ancient etc.
Speaking about fertility, it's still a hidden value instead of actual stat, right? Why not take this yet another opportunity and implement fertility as an actual stat? The value is there, just need to put it next to the others.
As for the charisma/beauty thing I stand by my opinion.
Here's the Mirriam-Webster charisma definition:
Charisma
:a personal magic of leadership arousing special popular loyalty or enthusiasm for a public figure (as a political leader)
:a special magnetic charm or appeal <the charisma of a popular actor>
Here's a quote of the descriptions of elves from LoTR wiki:
Elves are (generally) unusually beautiful of face and body. There is little physical difference between males and females except that which is required for reproduction.
Forgotten Realms:
Elves, like their cousins the eladrin and drow, are fair and beautiful, handsome, and have pointed ears and no body hair except eyebrows, eyelashes and hair.
The Witcher:
Elves live much longer than humans and are usually very attractive.
Warcraft universe(High elves):
The elves are slim, with sharp symmetrical features, often an exaggeration of perfect beauty.
See where I'm getting at with this? There's plenty of elves who wouldn't be charismatic, since they are, in fact, usually smug assholes with a sense of superiority over the "lesser" races. Their physical beauty, however, is a genetic constant. I just think it's more appropriate to be inheritable in your genes than something more vague and psychological like charisma.
I'd still say though, let's just compromise and make elves have both charisma, beauty and magic bonuses.
Fairy
A magical being that is commonly found places where nature has been left untouched. Resembles a human save for their wings and very small size. Their wings produce an addictive drug if ground into dust.
> Flight
> Delicate
> +5-10 Herbalism
> +0-5 Animal handling
> If one in you possession should die some Fairy dust is added to your inventory
Soooo, I assume fairies wouldn't be able to perform normal/anal sex? I don't want to state clearly what I'm implying.
The concept of "harvesting" them for Fairy Dust though... without necessarily killing them that is.
Is Flight a trait? Because it should increase a girl's escape chances drastically. She can fuckin' fly.
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An Alternate Approach to Class Designation
I've been thinking about the difficulties that we've been running up against trying to properly designate class, and I've come to the conclusion that we're going about it all wrong. Specifically, we're confusing class and profession. In a typical, usually combat-oriented setting the two are pretty much indistinguishable, but I don't think that necessarily holds true for a game like WM. We've been approaching class as if it described what a girl did when we should be focusing on what a girl is.
Basically, instead of getting hung up over the specifics of her specific form of work, we should build a system of classes based on characteristics of the girls in a more general, character-oriented, and gameplay-oriented way. There's no need to make separate classes for Maid, Waitress, Secretary, Cook, Construction Worker, and ect. because at the end of the day, no matter what those jobs may entail, they're all basically service and labor jobs. Therefore, a girl in any of these professions might be classed as a "Working Girl". What job she did specifically can be covered by traits as is the current system. But, for example, whatever bonuses she may receive from labor traits will be greater in a "Working Girl" than for some other class.
On a more fundamental level: The class designation in any game defines how a character behaves within the game. So logically, the classes in this game should define how the girls interact with customers or react to different jobs. In this system, class should ideally be a combination of personality traits and job-related skill sets. Here then, is my (subject to editing) proposed class list.
Peasant (Default if no other class is specified)
She used to be on the lowest status class on the social structure. Poor, uneducated and with a lifetime perspective of peddling potatoes.
-Lower base Refinement (--)
-Lower requirement for Accommodation Satisfaction
Enigma
Her past is shrouded in a veil of mystery. She either doesn't remember it, doesn't want to remember it, or is hiding something.
-+1 bonus random stat or skill every turn (- / +)
Street Urchin
Her past was hopeless. With no real family or friends, she had no stable roof under her head and basically lived on the streets.
-Lower base Confidence (-), Dignity (-) and Refinement (---)
-Lower chances of recapturing her when she escapes
Housewife
She dedicated her life to being a stay-at-home wife, which granted her some experience in housekeeping and family raising abilities.
-Higher base Cooking and Service
-+20% happiness gain when working in your house
-+10% experience gain when working in your house
Schoolgirl
A young girl who was not yet out of her education. Having not experienced the harsher side of life, she can be somewhat naive and impressionable.
-5% bonus to experience gains
-Falls in love a little faster
Scholar
An esteemed learner of some form of arts or sciences.
-Higher base Intelligence (++)
-5% experience bonus
Mother Figure
Whether they are her own children or not, this woman acts as a comforting mother figure and role model for anyone who will accept her.
-All girls in the same building gain a small experience bonus every turn
-Even if she isn't a matron, she can help cheer up sad girls
-Happiness increases at a faster rate when pregnant
Servant
She's worked a servant long enough to know how to be quiet and obedient. Not necessarily a slave, though many slaves are.
-Higher base Obedience (++)
-Higher base Service (+++)
-Less likely to try to escape
Working Girl
This girl is a diligent worker, who is familiar with labor and service oriented jobs. She may only be mediocre at what she does, but she'll work hard on it.
-Higher base Service (++)
-Higher base Constitution (+)
-Bonuses received from the Handyman, Maid, Mixologist, Teacher, and Waitress Traits are increased (+)
Professional
A professional worker in a high-level field. Skilled at what she does, she is used to a higher paycheck than the average worker.
-Higher base Intelligence (+)
-Higher requirements for Accomodation Satisfaction
-Bonuses received from the Chef, Director, and Doctor Traits are increased (+)
Performer
She loves to perform for people. A naturally charismatic individual, but can come off as a bit of a diva.
-Higher base Performance (+++)
-Higher base Charisma (++)
-Bonuses received from the Actor, Porn Star, and Singer Traits are increased (+)
-Higher base Ranking in Singer, Pianist, Entertainer, and any Acting jobs
Criminal
She used to be juvenile delinquent, petty thief or some other shady character living a lawless lifestyle.
-Lower base Morality (-)
-Has a chance to steal small amounts of money from clients, or maybe even the player
Crime Lord
She used to be the boss of a mafia or some other powerful criminal organization.
-Lower base Morality (--)
-Higher base Spirit, Charisma and Dignity (+)
Villain
She was a feared mastermind of evil in her past.
-Lower base Morality (---)
-Higher base Spirit, Confidence, Dignity and Intelligence (++)
Heroine (Would likely replace the existing 'Heroine' trait)
This girl was a vigilante out for justice or revenge.
-Higher base Morality (+++)
-Higher base Charisma and Confidence (+)
Merchant
She was a salesman of something, maybe a shopkeeper. She has an eye for top-grade merchandise and is not afraid to haggle.
-Higher chance and more often item purchases
-Higher chance of finding rare items in the catacombs
-5% to gold gain
Noble
She used to be a member of some higher social class and is used to all the privileges that come with it.
-Higher base Dignity and Refinement (++)
-Happiness will drastically decrease and Rebelliousness will increase every turn on Accommodation level lower than Wonderful while Dignity is over 30
Fighter
A strong-headed, competitive girl who isn't afraid to fight. She may or may not be a very skilled fighter, but she certainly has the attitude of one.
-More effective in Combat (+)
-Higher base Spirit (+)
-Always prefers combat, security, or catacombs jobs
Magician
A trained and disciplined practitioner of the arcane arts.
-Bonuses to spellcasting
-Higher base Mana and Magic (+)
-Cannot have 'Weak Magic' or 'Muggle' traits
Priestess (Would likely replace the existing 'Priestess' trait)
She used to be a humble and modest cleric of a deity of some sorts. Whether that deity was good or evil, she still strives to uphold her chosen code of conduct.
-Higher base Dignity (+)
-Higher base Morality (++)
Slut (Would likely replace the existing 'Slut' trait)
To put it simply, this girl really likes to have sex. It is her primary hobby.
-Higher base Libido (++) and Libido increases faster
-More likely to do perverted 'extra actions' at the Strip Club Waitress, Masseuse, Peep Show, and XXX Entertainer jobs (and any other jobs I missed that have perverted extra actions)
-Lower likelihood of refusing sex
Bully
A girl who likes to pick on the weak. Like most bullies, she has a low self-esteem that causes her to lash out at those she perceives as weak.
-Lower base Confidence (-)
-Can occasionally bully the other girls in her building
As you can see, almost none of the existing job traits are on this list. If you want to specify that your girl is a maid for example, you would set her class to either 'Working Girl' or 'Servant', then give her the maid trait. One reason for this is that these jobs aren't mutually exclusive. A girl can work as a waitress and singer in the same bar for example. I also didn't include the royalty traits. For Queens and Princesses, just apply that trait to them while setting their class to 'Noble' - or to 'Magician' (i.e. Princess Zelda), 'Fighter' (i.e. Princess Ymir of Queens Blade), or whatever other class best suits her.
In this way, I believe that a more consolidated class system can be applied that has more relevance to the girls' current profession, rather than to their past.
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Why do you insist on taking every single little detail and exception into account? What part of "generalization" don't you understand?
If you actually want me to go through the OP with a fine-tooth comb and drag out everything I think is inconsistent I can.
And again, where are your propositions of new classes/races to account for those things you're pointing out?
For the most part, I'm fine with your proposals; for the ones I'm not fine with, I speak up.
Anything I say you absolutely HAVE to reply to and disagree with.
:rolleyes: If you don't want me to be able to reply to something, don't post it.
You haven't proposed a single new idea or re-iteration of my ideas even once, all you wrote is "I think this is bad because..." without giving any different suggestions or solutions whatsoever.
Actually, I've suggested changing certain things, and merging (or eliminating) others. I asked about combining Classes, I did suggest an alternative for Assassins, and later I did have a suggestion for humans (albeit one I didn't think was practical).
Do I really need real-life historical examples to explain something I basically near-made up for a fictional setting? Fine.
No. You can simply say, "No, random internet person, I don't care about accuracy or whether this makes sense to you, I'm fine with it and I don't need to justify myself to you, so fuck off."
That said, I don't think your first two links (and some of the third) actually agree with what you're saying, but that would be going way off-topic, so unless you want me to go into it I'll hold off.
Yeah I know you're talking about Patchouli,
Alice is one too, and there is an actual species: http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Magician
... But yeah, unless you wanted to fold them in with characters like the PMMM girls (who strictly speaking would probably go under some form of undead or construct), I'm not really sure how they'd work in a Race system unless you wanted to basically add new races whenever you get something a bit different. Human Sorceress is probably the best fit.
Oh come on. I know that. You're over-analyzing now. So orcs should get a magic boost too, because what, being a warrior/noble savage/barbarian/whatever the fuck culture "doesn't mean you don't have magic"?
In my experience, orcs have never been believed to be as naturally magical/magically talented as elves are. Your analogy falls flat.
Well, I do think there is a pretty meaningful distinction between the two. If you disagree, give me a name, description and effects of these two classes merged into one.
:Shrug:
"Warrior" (I'd normally use Fighter, but you already have it)
'This person made his living with his weapons, and was paid for his work.
+ Combat
+ Base Obedience
Difficult to Lower Spirit and Dignity
Lower Rebelliousness
Higher Combat and Obedience are obvious - both 'soldiers' and 'mercenaries' are used to taking orders and following them, and since we're dealing with mundane types, increased Combat is the generic stat to increase. Spirit and Dignity are to represent the difficulty in reducing the character's self-worth, and lower Rebelliousness ties in with increased Obedience, because they're less likely to try and subvert orders or the like.
I also seriously hope you didn't just imply that the majority of humans would prefer other humans instead of elves when it comes to choosing a whore.
Yes, I did - because elves don't look like humans. "Humans with pointy ears" isn't a correct interpretation of what they look like, because their proportions are different. Much the same way that I think most humans would prefer a human over a dwarf or an orc, I think most would prefer a human over an elf. (And that's leaving out societal impulses - if elves and humans hate each other, most people would probably end up harming elven whores, so you'd either get the same effect because you're protecting them, or else you simply increase the elves' rates and accept that they're going to be taking injuries.)
No idea how you'd like "some sort of entity who helps make sure the world continues" classified in the game though. I'd just classify Rachel under the Noble class.
Looking at the wiki ... Sorceress.
No, it's actually very easy. Elves have pointy ears, and are pretty. In 90% of fantasy settings.
You're saying that people should accept your words as true instead of actually going through the majority of fantasy settings to determine whether your claim is actually true.
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I really think the class "system" should just be a means to expanding the current job traits we have and separating them from the "main" trait list.
I don't know why we're overthinking this to a level of a whole new system or something.
Honestly, the first case scenario I considered is that classes were just meant ONLY as flavour text descriptions with little to no gameplay effects. This obviously wouldn't work well for girls that were doctors or maids, it's only logical they'd have some sort of at least starting advantage in doctor and maid departments over girls who were, for example, homeless.
Specifically, we're confusing class and profession.
I just assumed these two as synonymous. Just as "what a girl did for a living in her past life" or "what was her formal occupation before you found and employed her".
We've been approaching class as if it described what a girl did when we should be focusing on what a girl is.
That's missing precisely the entirety of my point.
What the girl is currently, her current class, is what you assign her to be now. In most cases she'll be a whore. Thanks to Crazy's mod and Aevo's additions she can alternatively be a barmaid, waitress, doctor, nurse, arena gladiator, farmhand, farmer, brewer, alchemist and a ton of other shit. And yes- she can do more than one of these at the same time and change between them freely. Basically, though - her current class/job/profession/employment is covered by her current job assignment. IF you assign her to something she actually had experience with - like a girl with a Doctor's class on Doctor's position, then she would have a natural advantage in a habitat/position she's familiar with.
There's no need to make separate classes for Maid, Waitress, Secretary, Cook, Construction Worker, and ect. because at the end of the day, no matter what those jobs may entail, they're all basically service and labor jobs.
Which doesn't change the fact that they're completely different forms of work that require completely different competencies and grant experience in completely different departments.
"Service and labor" is too much of a wide sector for employment to cover.
On a more fundamental level: The class designation in any game defines how a character behaves within the game.
I disagree. Class or job has near-nothing to do with behavior. Behavior is covered by traits or stats/skills.
So logically, the classes in this game should define how the girls interact with customers or react to different jobs.
Again, customer interaction is already covered by a girl's traits and stats. Classes provide only advantages in similar or identical jobs.
Having not experienced the harsher side of life, she can be somewhat naive and impressionable.-5% bonus to experience gains
So, every schoolgirl by definition is naive and impressionable? And all schoolgirls live in some magical realm where "the harsher side of life" doesn't exist? Forgive me my snarkiness, but the "naive and impressionable" part is covered by a perspective trait already.
She was a schoolgirl, so, I believe, her habitat in her past life would make her a bit more tangible to learning. As little sense as it may make to some, I think it's still more than assuming every schoolgirl is naive.
Peasant (Default if no other class is specified)
How so? Peasants may often be found in cities, but they're mainly farm laborers or other members of the underclasses typically associated with the countryside. I'd still keep the Homeless class for some girls that you find on the streets and employ for free. Arguably we could just rename Homeless to Beggar to better fit the "employment" theme.
I'd do something like assigning classes to methods of employment. If you use the talent searching in Crossgate, they should have a large chance to be Homeless, Peasant etc. If you employ them in the studio - they'd obviously have a higher chance to be actresses. Hospital - nurses/doctors.
The default-default class IMO should be Enigma.
Mother Figure
Whether they are her own children or not, this woman acts as a comforting mother figure and role model for anyone who will accept her.
-All girls in the same building gain a small experience bonus every turn
-Even if she isn't a matron, she can help cheer up sad girls
-Happiness increases at a faster rate when pregnant
Fighter
A strong-headed, competitive girl who isn't afraid to fight. She may or may not be a very skilled fighter, but she certainly has the attitude of one.
-More effective in Combat (+)
-Higher base Spirit (+)
-Always prefers combat, security, or catacombs jobs
Slut (Would likely replace the existing 'Slut' trait)To put it simply, this girl really likes to have sex. It is her primary hobby.-Higher base Libido (++) and Libido increases faster-More likely to do perverted 'extra actions' at the Strip Club Waitress, Masseuse, Peep Show, and XXX Entertainer jobs (and any other jobs I missed that have perverted extra actions)-Lower likelihood of refusing sex
Bully
A girl who likes to pick on the weak. Like most bullies, she has a low self-esteem that causes her to lash out at those she perceives as weak.
-Lower base Confidence (-)
-Can occasionally bully the other girls in her building
All traits, not classes.
Fighter is arguable, but I think I established with someone else a couple posts back that it fits a trait better.
Servant
She's worked a servant long enough to know how to be quiet and obedient. Not necessarily a slave, though many slaves are.
-Higher base Obedience (++)
-Higher base Service (+++)
-Less likely to try to escape
Working Girl
This girl is a diligent worker, who is familiar with labor and service oriented jobs. She may only be mediocre at what she does, but she'll work hard on it.
-Higher base Service (++)
-Higher base Constitution (+)
-Bonuses received from the Handyman, Maid, Mixologist, Teacher, and Waitress Traits are increased (+)
Professional
A professional worker in a high-level field. Skilled at what she does, she is used to a higher paycheck than the average worker.
-Higher base Intelligence (+)
-Higher requirements for Accomodation Satisfaction
-Bonuses received from the Chef, Director, and Doctor Traits are increased (+)
Performer
She loves to perform for people. A naturally charismatic individual, but can come off as a bit of a diva.
-Higher base Performance (+++)
-Higher base Charisma (++)
-Bonuses received from the Actor, Porn Star, and Singer Traits are increased (+)
-Higher base Ranking in Singer, Pianist, Entertainer, and any Acting jobs
These are way too ambiguous I think. Especially "Servant" and "Working girl". And they seem more of education levels or education specializations, rather than jobs.
By extending this logic we could just do it the Marx way and divide all girls into three social classes, the working class, the middle class and the ruling class.
Except for, perhaps, "Performer", although I think there's enough jobs that fall under this category that my argument would still stand.
As you can see, almost none of the existing job traits are on this list. If you want to specify that your girl is a maid for example, you would set her class to either 'Working Girl' or 'Servant', then give her the maid trait.
Sorry mate, but I absolutely fail to notice any point in this. Why give her a "Servant" class AND a "Maid" trait on top of that, instead of JUST setting her class to "Maid"?
If you're worried about there being too much options for various classes, I'll have to remind you that the default Coretraits.traits file has 200+ traits and it's somehow operable. I'd still axe a lot of traits out of there myself, including the species and job ones, that would have their own categories.
You're saying that people should accept your words as true instead of actually going through the majority of fantasy settings to determine whether your claim is actually true.
Oh fuck off already with your "actually that's just your opinion!" shit. I didn't invent Warhammer, Lord of the Rings, Warcraft, Dungeons and Dragons, and a dozen of other fantasy settings where elves are exactly what I say they are. The majority of fantasy consensus is fucking clear and I'm not responsible for it in the slightest: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elves_in_fantasy_fiction_and_games (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elves_in_fantasy_fiction_and_games)
Tempted to not even bother with the rest of your passive aggressive deconstructions of my posts, you obviously love to argue for the sake of arguing instead of producing results, as proven by your complete lack of solutions or alternative suggestions. At least MMeer here above your post actually took my list and did his own re-iteration of it, as much as I don't agree with it at least he gave us something else to consider.
A "Warrior" class including soldiers and mercenaries? Seriously? Because that can mean ANYTHING that uses a weapon and doesn't even need to apply to soldier or mercenary archetypes at all.In my experience, orcs have never been believed to be as naturally magical/magically talented as elves are. Your analogy falls flat.
You're saying that people should accept your words as true instead of actually going through the majority of fantasy settings to determine whether your claim is actually true?Yes, I did - because elves don't look like humans. "Humans with pointy ears" isn't a correct interpretation of what they look like, because their proportions are different.
You're saying that people should accept your words as true instead of actually going through the majority of fantasy settings to determine whether your claim is actually true?
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??? Whoa... someone needs an e-huggie over here.
Perhaps solve it by having 3 different elf races like High Elves, Dark Elves and Wood/Wild Elves?
I think that would cover it wouldn't it, the High Elves could be the more charismatic, the Dark Elves the more beautiful perhaps and the wood elves the best fighters.
Just throwing ideas around here, feel free to lock me back up if i get out of hand :D
But seriously, e-huggies for everyone.
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??? Whoa... someone needs an e-huggie over here.
Perhaps solve it by having 3 different elf races like High Elves, Dark Elves and Wood/Wild Elves?
I think that would cover it wouldn't it, the High Elves could be the more charismatic, the Dark Elves the more beautiful perhaps and the wood elves the best fighters.
Just throwing ideas around here, feel free to lock me back up if i get out of hand :D
But seriously, e-huggies for everyone.
It'd mke more sense to stick to generic races and have a new option in the girl files, so for instance.....
Race="Elf"
RaceDesc="High Elf"
That'd pull the traits and etc from the Elf template and show up as High Elf in the description. Also doing something like that helps with traits like Half-Constructs and so on as the item can specify an updated RaceDesc for that conversion (so Deus Ex style Transhuman, Star Trek Borg, etc, etc), it'd also be useful for the human types in Gundam, Elder Scrolls and a whole host of other settings.
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So, every schoolgirl by definition is naive and impressionable? And all schoolgirls live in some magical realm where "the harsher side of life" doesn't exist? Forgive me my snarkiness, but the "naive and impressionable" part is covered by a perspective trait already.
Careful there, the OP wants people to be more "general," and he could decide that your bringing up border-cases is being too "specific."
Oh fuck off already with your "actually that's just your opinion!" shit.
Well, alright then, if all you wanted was a sounding board of "Yes-men" you should have said so to begin with.
I didn't invent Warhammer, Lord of the Rings, Warcraft, Dungeons and Dragons, and a dozen of other fantasy settings where elves are exactly what I say they are. The majority of fantasy consensus is fucking clear and I'm not responsible for it in the slightest:
Hmm ... except for Harry Potter, Artemis Fowl, The Puppet Masters, Warcraft, Mabinogi, Elder Scrolls, and a dozen other fantasy settings where elves are exactly not what you said they were.
as proven by your complete lack of solutions or alternative suggestions.
You appear to be completely incapable of reading comprehension. I'd suggest a cure, but you would take it the wrong way.
A "Warrior" class including soldiers and mercenaries? Seriously? Because that can mean ANYTHING that uses a weapon and doesn't even need to apply to soldier or mercenary archetypes at all.
And what other major professions are there that use weapons and don't fall into another primary category. And remember, you have be general about it, the OP gets tetchy if you get too specific.
You're saying that people should accept your words as true instead of actually going through the majority of fantasy settings to determine whether your claim is actually true?
No, I'm saying that the majority of orc species that I, personally, have encountered fit the broad description of orc that I posited earlier. I made no claims as to the properties of the vast and varied appearances of orcs throughout fiction, only my own personal experiences with them. If you have examples of orcs that do not fit that preconception, I would be interested to learn more of them.
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It'd mke more sense to stick to generic races and have a new option in the girl files, so for instance.....
Race="Elf"
RaceDesc="High Elf"
That'd pull the traits and etc from the Elf template and show up as High Elf in the description. Also doing something like that helps with traits like Half-Constructs and so on as the item can specify an updated RaceDesc for that conversion (so Deus Ex style Transhuman, Star Trek Borg, etc, etc), it'd also be useful for the human types in Gundam, Elder Scrolls and a whole host of other settings.
Hmmm... yeah that seems like it would work, I thinks that's a better way of implementing my idea.
Wonder how plausible it would be?
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That's missing precisely the entirety of my point.
With all due respect I didn't miss your point. I understood where you were coming from and was specifically offering an approach that was different on a fundamental level. If this ends up being implemented, hopefully we can pick and choose the best from both approaches.
My approach was intended to be as generalistic as possible, to provide wide umbrella categories so fewer girls would have no nook they could fit into. As for your argument that maid, waitress, secretary, ect. require different skill sets you are absolutely correct, but by grouping of them into generic "Working Girl" was based more on their approach to life and their attitude toward their work, rather than specific skill sets (again, see 'generalistic', above).
As for schoolgirls being "naive" by default, I have to agree with your assessment. I should probably change that. I think they would still be more impressionable though.
I disagree. Class or job has near-nothing to do with behavior. Behavior is covered by traits or stats/skills.
I guess I didn't make myself clear. I didn't mean her in-game behavior as a character, I meant her in-code behavior in interacting with the program itself. Though, now that I think about it isn't really that different.
Furthermore, I didn't really expound in my original proposal how subclasses would interact with my class system. As far as distinguishing between maids, waitresses, ect. perhaps subclasses could be used for that. "Working Girl" still reflects their attitude toward work, while the various subclasses available under that class would dictate specific skillsets for specific jobs. I believe that is supported in standard RPG class systems. For example, if your character is a fighter, you can make them defense-oriented, damage-oriented, or in-between. Something similar could be put into effect so that classes are generic and subclasses are specific.
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Yea.... its going well between OP and dmotrl. Can't blame OP.
I would like to again say: KISS Keep it Simple Stupid
Which means that yes, we do make races/classes generic, but open to be different.
Characters can later further be customized, accounting for whoever/whatever traits they actually have. Its already happening anyways.
Of course, I guess the main problem is agreeing on what is the generic. Or actually more simple, whoever writes up the code gets the final say. We are here to discuss opinions/suggestions civilly to influence that final say.
Servant[/color][/size]She's worked a servant long enough to know how to be quiet and obedient. Not necessarily a slave, though many slaves are.[/color][/size]-Higher base Obedience (++)-Higher base Service (+++)-Less likely to try to escapeWorking GirlThis girl is a diligent worker, who is familiar with labor and service oriented jobs. She may only be mediocre at what she does, but she'll work hard on it.-Higher base Service (++)-Higher base Constitution (+)-Bonuses received from the Handyman, Maid, Mixologist, Teacher, and Waitress Traits are increased (+)ProfessionalA professional worker in a high-level field. Skilled at what she does, she is used to a higher paycheck than the average worker.-Higher base Intelligence (+)-Higher requirements for Accomodation Satisfaction-Bonuses received from the Chef, Director, and Doctor Traits are increased (+)
[/size][/font][/color]
Servant - A girl who has worked in the service industry in one form or another, like a common maid, masseuse or even hair stylist. (Lets keep the slave thing out of the classes? Being a slave already has its effects. We don't need to throw a double whammy on the girls.)
- Service++
- Cooking+
Townie: A common city girl. (Should be sort that really doesn't have any work experience or education.)
-Service +
Farmer(or Peasant): A run of the mill girl from a rural village or town who has worked in Agriculture. (Basically it is low skill work that can generally be picked up by anyone, most peasants probably learned at least some very rudimentary cooking skills by helping out.)
-Farming ++
-Animal Husbandry ++
-Cooking +
-Refinement --
-Intelligence -
Working Girl: A girl who has taken a profession in a craft that generally requires apprenticeship to learn. (It can easily be justified to just split those skills into their own jobs/classes actually...)
-Brewing++
-Crafting++
-Herbalism++
-Cooking++
-Dignity +
Nurse/Doctor: A girl who has been educated in the practice of medicine.
- Medicine ++
- Accommodation Expectation +
- Intelligence +
- Dignity +
Professional: A girl who has been highly educated. This education is usually in the form of administrative pursuits, for example: bookkeeping, accounting, logistics and teaching.
- Accommodation Expectation ++
- Intelligence ++
- Dignity ++
- Refinement +
- Service ++
On that note... how available is education in Crossgate? Do the poor get any? Is it only available to the well-to-do middle class and up?[/font]
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Soooo, I assume fairies wouldn't be able to perform normal/anal sex? I don't want to state clearly what I'm implying.
Not sure how to handle that. Some faeries can make themselves human-sized like in the movies Hook and Legend. I don't think that would constitute a Shapeshifter trait as they only have two shapes, fairy size and human size. From a purely game aspect it would probably be easier to just let it be. Most sex type pictures I can find of faeries are half and half of fairy size and human size. Deoending on what picture is shown in the game I just figure "guess that customer likes his girls tiny."
The concept of "harvesting" them for Fairy Dust though... without necessarily killing them that is.
"Made from grinding the wings of fairies to dust, this stuff is highly addictive and can be dangerous" is the current description of fairy dust though. If you want to collect fairy dust without mutilation or murder (which i would prefer) it would just be a simple mater of changing the description.
I was going to suggest a random chance of getting fairy dust every turn since adding a job or something to harvest would be a lot of work for a single race. Inless their are other races that produce things and a general "collect this races stuff" (working title) job added that only works if the girl is a race that produces stuff. Like how you cant put a girl on the rehab job in less she actually has issues.
Is Flight a trait? Because it should increase a girl's escape chances drastically. She can fuckin' fly.
It is currently in the game but I have no idea what it actually does. For all I know it could just be flavor.
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I would like to again say: KISS Keep it Simple Stupid
Oh.
So that's what it means.
We could argue about the whole concept of "simplicity" if we really wanted to. I think that, ironically enough, more classes = more simplicity, since it makes assigning various girls a more fitting class better, rather than debating whether she'd fit a "Servant" or "Working girl" class more, for example.
Which means that yes, we do make races/classes generic, but open to be different.Characters can later further be customized, accounting for whoever/whatever traits they actually have. Its already happening anyways.
This. Races are stereotypical, slight genetic advantages/disadvantages. That's it.
Sub-races or other genetic offshoots could just be covered by descriptions.
"Made from grinding the wings of fairies to dust, this stuff is highly addictive and can be dangerous" is the current description of fairy dust though. If you want to collect fairy dust without mutilation or murder (which i would prefer) it would just be a simple mater of changing the description.
I'm sure someone gets off on the idea of cutting the wings of fairies off and grinding them to dust. Ouch.
Don't see what'd stop fairies spraying the stuff all over the place just by fluttering their wings. Like you said, it would be a simple matter of coding too, just make a fairy dust item appear in the girl's inventory every turn or something.
On that note... how available is education in Crossgate? Do the poor get any? Is it only available to the well-to-do middle class and up?
I was thinking about the addition of some kind of new School or University building to Crossgate.
You could put girls to work there in pretty standard positions, if they are competent enough even as teachers, but the main function would be training in order to a change a girl's class.
So when you find a homeless or peasant girl, you wouldn't be doomed with that class forever, but after a significant amount of time and gold spent on her education she'd be "re-branded" to, say, a doctor.
This kind of goes against what I've been holding onto with an iron fist the whole thread, that is the fact that classes should be an indicator of their PAST lives rather than their current lives under you, but for the sake of gameplay and flexibility I think the PC should have at least some influence on a girl's class. Plus, consider the fact that once they finish their training/education, they begin something of a "new" life, (un)happily returning back under your wings again. However, that would mean that they would completely lose the benefits of their previous class, wiping all of her experience as that class out of her mind... which doesn't make much sense to be honest. Multiple classes? Aside from just dual-classing. But that'd be overpowered in the long term. Eh, gameplay issues.
This is mainly intended for random girls rather than unique girls honestly, since it would mean unique girls could potentially end up with classes that don't match their appearance/description or character in general.
But hey, if a flat-chested character is able to suddenly get gigantic tits through the usage of traits and items, who really cares (except for me, that is)?
Alternatively, the School/University buildings could also serve the purpose of raising skills/stats at a higher-than-usual-rate but that'd be expensive. And it should naturally lock the girl out of your "normal" usage until you decide she's finished with her education.
That's a discussion for a different topic though, I think.
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Lamia
Centaur
Perhaps merge these (unless 'Lamia' is supposed to represent serpent-bodied individuals - perhaps change that to 'Naga' instead?) and call it 'Tauric.'
"A Tauric has the upper body of a human over the lower body of a four-legged creature such as a horse, lion, or other animal."
Slight penalties to Normal and Lesbian (if only because I'm thinking there would be mechanical difficulties in actually performing the acts)
Bonus to Beast activities (Sex, Hunting, Caring)
Slight Bonus to Strength and/or Agility (to represent the increased carrying ability of a four-legged animal and the potential speed advantage.
Not sure if Drider-style creatures would fit under there as well; I don't see why they wouldn't, but I'm not sure if they're represented enough to make their own category worthwhile.
Naga:
"A Naga has the upper body of a human and the lower body of a snake. Many are at home in aquatic surroundings."
Bonus to Beast-related activities.
Agility Bonus?
Perhaps a Combat Bonus to represent the constriction potential?
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I specifically left out the monstergirl races aside from just mentioning them, because they would complicate everything incredibly. Even if we assume they have a normal, human vagina somewhere, their footjob skill would be problematic (no feet or legs on lamias, harpies)... or handjob too for that matter (harpies).
That and the fact that in the end, there isn't many actual monstergirl girl files out there if there's any out at all... yet.
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That and the fact that in the end, there isn't many actual monstergirl girl files out there if there's any out at all... yet.
There are some; Crisis21 made a pack some time ago with a Centaur, Harpy, Lamia ... a few others. Looks like it's even still up.
http://www.pinkpetal.org/index.php?topic=912.msg14812#msg14812