On finishing up the game (1.3)

[GmanPrime]

As I've been playing WM, there is only one thing left (besides fixing the few bugs left) that I think the game really needs to be complete.  Basically I think some end goal with a permanent reward besides beat all the gangs is needed, and I've been thinking it would be nice to "conquer" crossgate through money.  As it stands there is really no point to large amounts of money, and I think some feature where you can buy out the city council to slowly gain control of the city would be great.  The money required would slowly go up, and by the end would require a hundred thousand or more per % point, with a final massive amount, at least one million but I'm thinking more like a hundred million with the way we currently earn cash, to completely buy out the government.  As an added bonus doing this would disable taxes and suspicion, but that would be pretty minor award compared to the satisifaction of "owning" crossgate.

[DocClox]

As I've been playing WM, there is only one thing left (besides fixing the few bugs left) that I think the game really needs to be complete.  Basically I think some end goal with a permanent reward besides beat all the gangs is needed, and I've been thinking it would be nice to "conquer" crossgate through money. 

I'd like to see the crossgate civil service elaborated a bit, and to allow the sort of takeover you describe. I'm not sure about the money aspect - the solution is to reduce the money supply a bit, i think. It ramps up too fast as the girls improve. I'm looking at that now.

I also want to make people work harder to unlock that ending. Make folks work for it, and they'll get more satisfaction from the attainment. The trouble with WM is that it gives you too much up front at the moment.

[Mehzerz]

No matter what you do, you're going to be swimming in money by the end of the game. You can lower how many customers each girl can see, or how much each girl makes, how quickly her stats go up, make items more expensive, add distractions you can buy (Building parts ect.) but no matter what you're going to have tons of money by the end game anyways.


Maybe the reason for that is there's simply TOO much room in your first brothel. You could beat the game with one brothel, and gangs will often times bring thousands of gold back at a time from either sabotage or diving in the catacombs. And the catacombs are partly to blame for that... I suggested it a long long time ago, but giving the catacombs various "levels" to kind of break up how random of drops you get. The first level will be pretty empty, a few gold coins, limited danger, very common items, such as healing salves or cheap dresses ect. The second level would be more dangerous but the rewards higher, then the third, ect.

Maybe we need to pull up the ol' endings and catacombs threads again.

[Lorde]

As I've been playing WM, there is only one thing left (besides fixing the few bugs left) that I think the game really needs to be complete.  Basically I think some end goal with a permanent reward besides beat all the gangs is needed, and I've been thinking it would be nice to "conquer" crossgate through money.  As it stands there is really no point to large amounts of money, and I think some feature where you can buy out the city council to slowly gain control of the city would be great. 

If anything, this would kill the problem of doing things for their own sake in this game. With an over arching goal, suddenly, hitting next week is no longer just about seeing new images pop up on your screen. It's getting you one step closer to that goal.

I'm not sure about the money aspect - the solution is to reduce the money supply a bit, i think. It ramps up too fast as the girls improve. I'm looking at that now.

It's been mentioned before, but limiting how many customers a whore can see in a shift would probably be the way to go. Base it on constitution and figure on 1 an hour with 100 con. (Count groups as 1, doesn't need to be complex.) Forget realism. It's a logical limit people would have a hard time arguing against. (What do you mean a whore can't fuck half a city in one night? That's completely... logical. NVM) You can even set it up for the config file for people that absolutely need whores to shat money all over the place.

No matter what you do, you're going to be swimming in money by the end of the game. You can lower how many customers each girl can see, or how much each girl makes, how quickly her stats go up, make items more expensive, add distractions you can buy (Building parts ect.) but no matter what you're going to have tons of money by the end game anyways.

Just need something to do with that money. I really like Gamma's idea on this.

Maybe the reason for that is there's simply TOO much room in your first brothel.

Limiting rooms in the first brothel would only delay the inevitable. Sure it would slow things down a bit, but you can either buy a new brothel quickly OR add more rooms to the existing one. Which would amount to the same speed run we have now with a minor speed bump of Limited rooms along the way. Though it would be cool if we could adjust starting amount of rooms for all brothels in the config file.

You could beat the game with one brothel, and gangs will often times bring thousands of gold back at a time from either sabotage or diving in the catacombs. And the catacombs are partly to blame for that... I suggested it a long long time ago, but giving the catacombs various "levels" to kind of break up how random of drops you get. The first level will be pretty empty, a few gold coins, limited danger, very common items, such as healing salves or cheap dresses ect. The second level would be more dangerous but the rewards higher, then the third, ect.

This doesn't even need to be complex either. Give gangs (or girls in catacombs) a level based on average stats Max of say 10). Give 11 levels of the catacombs. Give an option for the gangs(girls) to "Play it safe" (1 Catacomb level lower than their level. Low risk of death(rape). Low reward.) "Go as far as there abilities let them" (equal Catacomb level to their level. Average risk of death(rape), average reward.) "Delve the depths" (1 Catacomb level higher than their level. High risk of death(rape), High reward.). That could work.

[DocClox]

If anything, this would kill the problem of doing things for their own sake in this game. With an over arching goal, suddenly, hitting next week is no longer just about seeing new images pop up on your screen. It's getting you one step closer to that goal.

I think the basic avenge-your-father plot is fine for an overarching goal. It just needs to be presented with a bit more flair and drama, really.

Of course, then there's the eternal dilemma of games like this one: do you say Game Over at that point and let the player start again, or do you let him continue on in sandbox mode? I tend towards letting the game continue ... but that does inevitably lead to a point where you find yourself just clicking. On the other hand, I always find it incredibly frustrating when a game ends just as I'm getting things set up as I want them.

It's been mentioned before, but limiting how many customers a whore can see in a shift would probably be the way to go. Base it on constitution and figure on 1 an hour with 100 con. (Count groups as 1, doesn't need to be complex.) Forget realism. It's a logical limit people would have a hard time arguing against. (What do you mean a whore can't fuck half a city in one night? That's completely... logical. NVM) You can even set it up for the config file for people that absolutely need whores to shat money all over the place.

I think a big part of the problem is that there are too many customers. The comments in the code suggest that the base number of customers should be 1.5 times the girls in the brothel. Currently the actual multiplier is 5x, which I think is too high. I've tried setting it back to 1.5 and didn't notice any difference at all, so I think I might drop it to 0.5 or lower. I want to get it so that having a girl doing a strip show is a useful tactic rather than a waste of time.

It's going to need a bit of fiddling to make everything still work at the start when money's tight, but it should be doable.

Give 11 levels of the catacombs. Give an option for the gangs(girls) to "Play it safe" (1 Catacomb level lower than their level. Low risk of death(rape). Low reward.) "Go as far as there abilities let them" (equal Catacomb level to their level. Average risk of death(rape), average reward.) "Delve the depths" (1 Catacomb level higher than their level. High risk of death(rape), High reward.). That could work.

Something like that. Maybe use drop down menus for the mission selection rather than the static listbox we have now. That way we can have sub menus, which solves the problem of how to present all these extra choices. I like the idea of making the catacombs a bit less formless in any case. Maybe there are islands of stability in the shifting layout. I can see potential there...

[Mehzerz]

It's been mentioned before, but limiting how many customers a whore can see in a shift would probably be the way to go. Base it on constitution and figure on 1 an hour with 100 con. (Count groups as 1, doesn't need to be complex.) Forget realism. It's a logical limit people would have a hard time arguing against. (What do you mean a whore can't fuck half a city in one night? That's completely... logical. NVM) You can even set it up for the config file for people that absolutely need whores to shat money all over the place.

Yeah, I think everything you mentioned here are really good calls. You also have to keep in mind the building management if that is still happening, that'll be a huge expense as well. Not to mention any events the community may plan to script. (For example: I'd like to script a secret merchant if possible. ala Princess Maker)

Of course, then there's the eternal dilemma of games like this one: do you say Game Over at that point and let the player start again, or do you let him continue on in sandbox mode? I tend towards letting the game continue ... but that does inevitably lead to a point where you find yourself just clicking. On the other hand, I always find it incredibly frustrating when a game ends just as I'm getting things set up as I want them.

I think a simple solution (without knowing anything about coding) would just to simply give the ending and then at the end ask if they'd like to continue in sandbox mode. Which would give them a description (Game indefinitely continues, you will still receive events that you hadn't acquired yet and ect. 


and as far as the story goes, I think it's fine too. There's just nothing to compliment your progress in the search or tasks you complete. YET. I don't know how hard it would be but adding portraits for speaking characters would be a nice addition to WMs scripting system.

[Lorde]

Something like that. Maybe use drop down menus for the mission selection rather than the static listbox we have now. That way we can have sub menus, which solves the problem of how to present all these extra choices. I like the idea of making the catacombs a bit less formless in any case. Maybe there are islands of stability in the shifting layout. I can see potential there...

Kinda Like Tartarus from Persona 3 with shifting layouts and checkpoints that extend from month to month. Doesn't need to be that complex but maybe you could set the checkpoints at the Catacomb level entrance and have opening up a new cata level one of the Brothel challenges rewards. (with a small chance for the gang|girl to find it on there own.)

I think a simple solution (without knowing anything about coding) would just to simply give the ending and then at the end ask if they'd like to continue in sandbox mode. Which would give them a description (Game indefinitely continues, you will still receive events that you hadn't acquired yet and ect.

Why not have the best of both worlds. Make, avenging your dad the game proper and after that, make buying up (conquering) Crossgate your goal. (now your rivals are the mayor and the rich and well to do. Good luck!) And even after you do that, you don't have to end it. Don't even worry about asking players if they want to start over. Those who want to at this point will. 

[fires_flair]

I don't know if it's the only thing that needs to be done, but adding some more to the story, background, goals, etc. is something that definitely needs to be done. which I've pointed out in another topic (and a lot of this is probably going to be the same). I mean having goals would also make the game harder, just because you would have to plan for them, and if they are exicuted right you'll never have impossible missions, or ones that take half the game (for non/low level importance missions). and having these goals doesn't mean a person couldn't just play it for the images, they could and can just ignore the goals. just as they can now, I don't think that should change, just the variety should be expanded upon, and something put into place to increase the difficaulty as the game progresses. personally the game probably has enough jobs and stuff like that (though I would still like to have room/building decors, but that's just me), the thing is they need to be flushed out, given more reason to preform them (hey... job related goals, good for late game). like advertising could be taken to it's own category (but that's probably a little far off), or each category could have advertizing, to increase the benifites gained from using it (girls on the street to attract johns to the brothel, posters to attract customers to the bar, and slides cut from the movies to advertise for them, and even increase the profit, or even create magazines from them). if it's ever possible for girls to approach us for jobs, this could also effect what jobs they like, or how much they like a job off the bat, or when/if some girls will come to us.

actually that is another thing that would increase difficulty, and flush things out, (and make things funner, IMO), is to add more ways to get girls. like having girls you can only get from pregnancy (and then you can have girls that are only avalible as your kids, from preg omly with the your daughter trait), or from approaching you, (and as others have said) different slave markets, rewards from the harder goals/quests. but I think I became side tracked. .
some ideas for
simple goals:
get __ girls pregnant (with another get __ girls pregnant with your kid, or inseminated)
make __ movies,
have ___ girls on __ job
have __ many girls (in addition to the get __ many girls we already have)
acquire __ properties
have __ gold

harder goals:
add a time limit to the above goals
buy __ rooms (multiplies of 5, needs to be able to detect if you have, or can get a brothel with the ability to buy more rooms)
earn __ in a turn/week
make __ girls hate you less/love you more, hate/love __ job less/more

hard goals:
complete __ goals (if you can have more then one goal at a time)
acquire __ of __ item (difficulty determined by the price of the item, store bought only)
have __ girls with all/__ stat(s) over __
cause __ girls to gain (a)/__ trait (keep track and over all, not after given this goal)
complete __ hard/harder goals

winning/static goals:
buy a brothel
own all brothels
defeat all rivals
completely upgrade all/a brothel(s)