Post game completion content

[exodia91]

Necno has already stated each unique girl in the base game is going to have her own event oriented storyline that you can pursue in-game. Along with the planned marriage and the players house content, it looks like he wants to focus on the players interactions with the girls more, and intends end-game conditions to depend on these storylines (I guess). Why this would force the game to be smaller, I personally don't see. Or did you mean smaller as in the players own personal focus would be mainly on a few girls instead of the empire they're making? I would assume girl storylines would mostly be a side note to pursue while managing your assets, so that shouldn't be a problem.

[letmein]

Yeah, I mean smaller in scale, not content.

[DocClox]

Sometimes it seems that whenever anyone suggests a game machanic involving gangs, someone has to shout "you're trying to make the gangs the entire focus of the game". Can we stop doing that please? I took the point back when you could win the game entirely on extortion, but think there's scope to expand the crime side a little without risking all the girls magically disappearing one dark and chilly night.

And Exodia, dude, just chill. I like the girls as much as anyone, I want to keep them at the heart of the game, and I'm not going to do anything of which necno disapproves. Also, the man does in fact read this board, and is entirely able to speak for himself. He doesn't need you to be his Vicar-on-Earth.

Of these three options, I can see good things about all of them.  However, in my opinion going smaller is the weakest choice - partially because this is probably the hardest to do, partially because we already have so much excellent material that it feels wrong to have to ignore it when shifting to a smaller scale, but mostly because that sort of game is already pretty effectively done in the SM series.  The other two scales are pretty equal.  As the game stands, it's good;  changing it would probably just make it good in a new way.  Total wash.

The thing is we already have a crime element, and it's been pretty neglected. To my way of thinking, we either want to make the crime side work better, or else we should get rid of it. The trouble with getting rid of the crime is that it really takes away the thing that makes this game unique, and reduces it to SimBrothel 3. I can't see that as a good thing.

I also think, getting back to the point of the thread, that the reason the ending seems so lukewarm is purely because the gang warfare side of things has been so neglected. I think that for a fairly small investment of time and effort, we can have a game where people can invest immerse themselves in the plot and the setting a bit more.

I can't see that as being a bad thing, myself.

[zodiac44]

I agree.  The girls should be a part of the game - a big part - but I don't think they should dominate.  I don't play the SimBro series because it is purely brothel management, which gets boring after 1 or 2 plays through.  I've lasted longer with WM because there are additional elements to the game and because with the girl packs there are a huge number of girls (far more than is necessary to win the game), so I can play through multiple times with different "rewards" each time.

That being said, the crime and catacombs elements of WM are like the poor third child: neglected, starved, and locked in a closet by its parents.  If we give them a little love, it isn't going to take away from the rest of the game.

[exodia91]

Chill? *looks back at posts* Odd.... I don't see anything I need to "chill" about, I kept a calm, subjective tone. You're the one who seems to have taken something I said personally. I merely pointed out how what you said could be construed as subtracting from the girls, and reminded everyone necno has plans for the game and you shouldn't jump the gun with planning massive content changes when he probably already has something in mind.

[DocClox]

and reminded everyone necno has plans for the game and you shouldn'tjump the gun with planning massive content changes when he probablyalready has something in mind.

Odd. I thought this was an open forum and we were allowed to discuss whatever we wanted.  Perhaps you'd better  give us a list of all the subjects we are allowed to discuss, just so this doesn't happen again.

[Command]

If anything like having a multiple event branches like marrying and other story driven stuff would likely play out better for this type of game if it was more like a sub quest type of thing you can do that would simply alter how the game is played,  Like who you make an aranged marrage with could give you access to buying a certain building type, (like marring the Head of the Royal Guard's dauter grant's you to build a gaurd barracks and alows you to hire Better trained and equiped Guards instead of gangs.  Marrying a daughter from a rival gang would grant a building that would function like a spy and blackmail network.  And so one.
 
Kind of like their are various hidden quests that can happen and some of the options you can choose from are dependand on what you currently have and random events.  And instead of beating the game you only get a reward of something that would improve your over all organization or something that would cause you to drastically alter your current strategy. 
 
Kind of like in some strategic games where if you beat a certain territory you get access to a unique type of unit you can only use by beating that territory. 

Since you could have several up grades per event it would insure a good part of a reply value.
 
That's the only idea I can come up with to make that kind of idea work for this type of game.

[necno]

I want to have everything and anything

[Mehzerz]

Well, I wasn't saying ignore the idea of gang wars being put into sectors with various abilities. I'd like to see it done, I agree largely that gangs and the catacombs are largely ignored but are still pretty large parts of the game. I never really liked how gangs were handled to begin with but didn't know how to improve them. This is a great way to do is in my opinion.
I just don't want to see the girls take a back step from the game is all. I'd like to see them on a more personal level and since that's going to be done, and be possible with script mods it's not a major concern. And with the building updates they'll have all kinds of use that they don't have now.

[DocClox]

Well, I wasn't saying ignore the idea of gang wars being put into sectors with various abilities. I'd like to see it done, I agree largely that gangs and the catacombs are largely ignored but are still pretty large parts of the game. I never really liked how gangs were handled to begin with but didn't know how to improve them. This is a great way to do is in my opinion.
I just don't want to see the girls take a back step from the game is all. I'd like to see them on a more personal level and since that's going to be done, and be possible with script mods it's not a major concern. And with the building updates they'll have all kinds of use that they don't have now.

I can appreciate that, and it's a valid concern. And I agree, the girls are the most important aspect of the game

As for personalising interactions with the girls... tell ya what - this thread has been dragged off-topic far enough - let's open a new thread and talk about how to do that.

[edit]

Done that: thread

[exodia91]

Have I offended you in some way? Because it seems almost every time I make a post now you jump in and bite my throat out, misinterpret what I say to make me out to be some asshole. I never even remotely implied the things you're saying I did, and it seems as if you're twisting everything I say into something negative. It's getting rather tiresome to have to put up with this almost every time I try to post. I wouldn't mind if this were some isolated incident where you misinterpreted something I said, but this has happened multiple times, and its starting to feel like you have it out for me. If you have a problem with me, just say it, I'm sure we can resolve it without this petty flaming.

[DocClox]

Because it seems almost every time I make a post now you jump in and bite my throat out, misinterpret what I say to make me out to be some asshole. I never even remotely implied the things you're saying I did, and it seems as if you're twisting everything I say into something negative. It's getting rather tiresome to have to put up with this almost every time I try to post.

I think that's the pot calling the kettle black. When have I tried to bite your head off, prior to this exchange? If anything, I've tried to avoid responding to your posts. During the thread about traits and custom girls, I bent over backwards to try and find a compromise solution that was acceptable to you, and was rewarded at every stage with condescension, negativity and insults.  The next time you addressed a comment to me it was to tell me to stop posting on a thread and move to another section. The time after that would be this thread, and here you are again, telling me what I can and cannot do, plan, and discuss.

So maybe you'll forgive me if I've been a little short on patience with you, but I feel I've eaten more than my portion of humble pie where you're concerned, and it's got me precisely nowhere.

I wouldn't mind if this were some isolated incident where you misinterpreted something I said, but this has happened multiple times, and its starting to feel like you have it out for me. If you have a problem with me, just say it, I'm sure we can resolve it without this petty flaming.

Just stop acting like someone died and made you Project Architect. There are other people playing this game, and I want to accommodate everyone's wishes as far as is humanly possible. Including yours, although you'd never think it from some of your responses.

[Savagefrog]

With all that is being done in the game is the main charater getting any stats. I keep having girls kick my butt an my guys getting killed when they go crazy. Are we ever going to be able to bitch slap these hoes........please forgive language but you get my point. Is the main charater going to get fleshed out or he just going to be limp wrist harry that can't keep his girls in line.
 

[Mehzerz]

I don't think the player is going to receive stats. He doesn't really need them, I had considered that option as well but it's not really necessary. (Nor is the question really related to this topic.)
The player character is essentially "you" nameless and faceless. He's not limited in anyway as the game is currently girls can't kill you. You can treat them as badly as you want, sure they WILL kill your guards, they WILL step out of line and they will refuse to work.
But all of these issues are solved through the talk options, various items and equipment and possibly even events.
If anything, the player will receive "perks" Perhaps offering extended talk options, new areas, more influence and the like. But will he get stats? Probably not. Does he need them? Not really.
Oh as far as post game goes though, it would be cool if you could earn "points" for accomplishing the various goals throughout the game, gaining even more points for specific endings. Adding a BONUS menu at the start, upon completing the first play these points could be used to give certain benefits, increased starting money, faster girl training, start with a rare item, start with a maxed gang member, all talk options unlocked ect. ect.
The various unlockables will add to the replay value.  (some unlockables not available for harder modes perhaps?)

[dcb42]

From my admittedly new and still somewhat underinformed vantage point,I think zodiac44 hits the nail on the head when he talks about needingto define the focus of the game.

Right now the focus is splitbetween two gameplay "modes" - Brothel Management and Goon Deployment(with, I gather, a third - Dungeon Crawl - on the way). Right now, thebrothel aspects of the game exist to support the goon squads, who areyour key to actually winning the game... but conversely, the brothelaspect of the game is the most well-developed and interesting.

Seemsto me, then, that integrating the brothel management aspect of the gameinto the actual endgame is the way to go; I like the idea of Wards,needing to defeat a rival gang before you can move into theirterritory; I'd also suggest that the goal of the game be shiftedslightly, so that your goal is not just to wipe out your rivals butalso to build an empire on par with your father's; make getting all sixbrothels, say, a victory condition (possibly unlocking a seventh, morepalatial brothel in the Noble Quarter that provides some benefit tofilling - more money, say, or girls that work there gain Happiness andlose Rebellion automatically).

As to post-game-completioncontent, well, there's the seventh brothel idea, and the idea ofenslaving your former rivals; I was thinking it might not be a bad ideato open up other jobs/missions for your thugs, too. Say, off the top ofmy head... the Sabotage mission turns into attacking your politicalrivals and prominent noble holdings in the city; you get an additional'Campaign' job, wherein your thugs basically wander around tellingeveryone how awesome you are, that sort of thing. The goal wouldessentially be to see yourself elevated to Nobleman status yourself,with all the power and prestige that entails (and if you think gangs ofroving street thugs can't get someone made noble, look into the historyof the Roman Empire sometime; several Emperors became Emperor simply bygiving money to lots and lots of ne'er-do-well thugs, who'd thenproceed to thump anyone that talked smack about them in public).

Basically,I figure 'why stop at being a crime boss?' The whole idea of becomingNoble wouldn't dramatically alter gameplay, save maybe to make iteasier (girls become cheaper, more obedient, taking a walk around thecity or kidnap missions have a higher success rate, et cetera) so thatyou can more easily fill up your brothels and make sure you get all theunique girls, so that if you want to keep playing you can rack up theladies with ease - so the completionists can be happy.