[idea] Java WM like game - Updated: 14 Dec 2012

[Zylo]

--Update - 14 Dec 2012--

This is just updating everyone on the game.  Development has been slow.  RL got in the way and I decided to redesign a lot of what is in the game.  When I get time I'll write up what my new changes are but this is to tell people that I'm still working on it.  I am really expanding into simulating a very robust legal system which I'm hoping will add a lot more depth to the game. 

--Update - 9 Aug 2012--

I've been working on it in my spare time.  I got a menu system up and running.  Now I'm working on the content.  At the moment, it is the interactions between characters when in the personal portion of the game.

--First Post--

First off, I would like to say that WM is an awesome game.


I was thinking of making a WM like game in java.  I would like to read what everyone thinks about the idea.  I was not planning to just porting it over to java though.  I was planning on expanding and changing some things (really making my own game).  I am a novice java programmer and already have code for the GUI and a lightweight database I was going to use to store the game’s saves.  I do not think it will take too long to make the game (maybe a year by myself to get it working but do not quote me on this though).


I was going to make the game play a lot more strategic (hopefully for the better).  The region map will be a 6x6 grid (for simplicity sake).  Each grid square will have a number of “locations” procedurally generated at the start of the game (mainly random though).  These “locations” will affect which shops, jobs and the type of people that will likely be there.  As the game goes along, I was planning to allow the player to control the grid squares and the “locations” via squads.


For the people, I was planning on generating them at the start of the game and simulating their actions each turn.  If a lot of them die, I can generate more of them.  I have done some small scale (AI-wise) tests from other projects so I was think in the ballpark of 600 people.  Since the game is turn-based, I do not think it will be too taxing to simulate that many.  That should make it where there are at least 10 people in each grid square (assuming some are dead or not of age).  Every person can be male or female with various levels of employment.  



Each person can lead a squad.  When upgrading a person to a squad, they will have a squad type that affects the movement and combat efficiency.  The squad types have specific damage table vs. each type of squad.  Every person, if they have a squad or not, can move around the map and do different actions/jobs.  The people cannot die for combat, per se.  If a person loses their whole squad in combat, they have a chance to escape but if they fail on escaping then the enemy has option to make of releasing, hiring, enslaving or executing the person.


The turn mechanic will have two stages, a strategic portion and a personal portion.  The strategic portion is where you will order your squads/people around.  The personal portion is where you interact with people, hanging out in the dungeon or go shopping, etc.


What do you think about this?

[Xela]

First off, I would like to say that WM is an awesome game.

Yeap, got me there!

I was thinking of making a WM like game in java.  I would like to read what everyone thinks about the idea.  I was not planning to just porting it over to java though.  I was planning on expanding and changing some things (really making my own game).  I am a novice java programmer and already have code for the GUI and a lightweight database I was going to use to store the game’s saves.  I do not think it will take too long to make the game (maybe a year by myself to get it working but do not quote me on this though).

Another Java hah?  Popuri wanted to make a java version of WM (you would have found his topic if you used search function)... maybe you two can get together and form a team.

There is actually already a java based WMlike sim in the making, but it is a commercial project with 2 or 3 professional programers and a graphics designer working on it.

So now we have Sims in C++, C++ + Lua, C#, Python, Action Script and Ruby... maybe someone should try and code one in Assembler

I am not sure you can create a game like WM in an year, I think we are already working on Alkion for an year now and still don't have all that much to show for it. I suppose if our programmer had more time... it all depends on your skilllevel and time you're willing to put in, it doesn't sound realistic thou, a game like WM with advanced features by a novice coder in one year is not likely possible.

I was going to make the game play a lot more strategic (hopefully for the better).  The region map will be a 6x6 grid (for simplicity sake).  Each grid square will have a number of “locations” procedurally generated at the start of the game (mainly random though).  These “locations” will affect which shops, jobs and the type of people that will likely be there.  As the game goes along, I was planning to allow the player to control the grid squares and the “locations” via squads.


For the people, I was planning on generating them at the start of the game and simulating their actions each turn.  If a lot of them die, I can generate more of them.  I have done some small scale (AI-wise) tests from other projects so I was think in the ballpark of 600 people.  Since the game is turn-based, I do not think it will be too taxing to simulate that many.  That should make it where there are at least 10 people in each grid square (assuming some are dead or not of age).  Every person can be male or female with various levels of employment.  



Each person can lead a squad.  When upgrading a person to a squad, they will have a squad type that affects the movement and combat efficiency.  The squad types have specific damage table vs. each type of squad.  Every person, if they have a squad or not, can move around the map and do different actions/jobs.  The people cannot die for combat, per se.  If a person loses their whole squad in combat, they have a chance to escape but if they fail on escaping then the enemy has option to make of releasing, hiring, enslaving or executing the person.


The turn mechanic will have two stages, a strategic portion and a personal portion.  The strategic portion is where you will order your squads/people around.  The personal portion is where you interact with people, hanging out in the dungeon or go shopping, etc.


What do you think about this?

 All great concepts, we have actually considered all of the above for Alkion at some point, but I am guessing there isn't much we haven't considered with all the time we've spent on Skype chatting .

 This sounds like it can become a great game, I could suggest that you get familiar with some other PL and join one of the already existing projects but it's up to you. Personally I dropped the idea of making a game like WM on my own a long time ago after I realized how much work it took and how slow progress at my current programming skill would be.

 In any case, Best of luck with whatever path you decide to take!

[graodeareia]

I'm working on a new game called Whore Master Cathexis (WMX). The game engine is being written in C++/Qt, while the front-end is using QML/Javascript. It will have a SQLite database for save games. The reason I'm posting here is becouse my game will also have a more tactical approach to map control. In my game the concept of Squad will be represented by Gangs, just to stay true to the orginal game. Gangs will be made up if random people just  and you won't be able to see this individuals, all you will see is the Gang name and Stats and also the number of people in it. Like the original game you can set the Gang to Recruit to increase the number of peope in it. I'm also considering a feature where a player could assign one of his characters as a Gang Leader to make the Gand stronger. If a Gang is wiped out the leader will be treated in a similar manner to the way you are treating your Squad leaders. Just like your ideas my map will be divided into sectors and player will be able to attack adjacent sectors to the sector he already controls. When the player gains control of a sector, he will then gain access to shops and other buildings that are available in the sector. The goal of this feature is to enable new gameplay options as the players expand his control of the city. I have mentioned some of this features in some of the posts in my my threads but I will only sort out the details when the time comes to implement the city map.

If you go on with your project, we can share some ideas in Tactical City Map control system as well as other ideas you might have. But if you feel like coding in C++ or QML/Javascript you could help me. And if you don't go ahead with your game, but doesn't want to get involved in the development of WMX maybe you could still participate in the game design discutions. In any case, gl with your project

[Zylo]

If you go on with your project, we can share some ideas in Tactical City Map control system as well as other ideas you might have. But if you feel like coding in C++ or QML/Javascript you could help me. And if you don't go ahead with your game, but doesn't want to get involved in the development of WMX maybe you could still participate in the game design discutions. In any case, gl with your project

Unfortunately, I don't know C++ that well.  I had to take some classes a while back that were in C++ but I'm not all that great in it.  I can help out with the design and discussions.  I think that will be a rewarding experience.

 In any case, Best of luck with whatever path you decide to take!

   

Thanks

[Popuri]

*ahem*

First off, not dead yet!  Still tinkering on my game in my free time, though it's branching away from WM's structure a little.  For example, I'll be replacing gangs with individual male 'henchmen' who serve a similar purpose.  Right now I'm still working on my graphics, some of the game's engine, and trying to do a streamlined 'config' setting, where adjusting the values for horizontal and vertical window size will dynamically adjust all the other graphics to fit.

[Xela]

*ahem*

First off, not dead yet!  Still tinkering on my game in my free time, though it's branching away from WM's structure a little.  For example, I'll be replacing gangs with individual male 'henchmen' who serve a similar purpose.  Right now I'm still working on my graphics, some of the game's engine, and trying to do a streamlined 'config' setting, where adjusting the values for horizontal and vertical window size will dynamically adjust all the other graphics to fit.

Yey.... who said anything about 'dead'?

Great to know you've been working on you project by the way!

[Popuri]

Hee.

One thing I want to do is expand other aspects of the game, but not abandon the brothel running.  As well, to make the player matter.  I plan on giving the player their own set of stats, and each time period (haven't decided between day or week), the player can choose to train, interact (which will prompt them which girls to interact with after hitting 'next day/week'), or oversee an area, which will boost the effectiveness of any girls there depending on the player's skills.

[graodeareia]

For example, I'll be replacing gangs with individual male 'henchmen' who serve a similar purpose.
 

What benefits does henchmen offer over gangs? I know that I would have an easier time coding the battle in WMX if I use a single person instead of a group of persons. But aside from the coding aspect I can't really see the benefits. From a realistic perspective a powerfull criminal (eg the player) would benefit more from a gang then a single person, unless he needed a specialist like an assassin.

Right now I'm still working on my graphics...

Do you have any screenshots you can post?

[Xela]

What benefits does henchmen offer over gangs? I know that I would have an easier time coding the battle in WMX if I use a single person instead of a group of persons. But aside from the coding aspect I can't really see the benefits. From a realistic perspective a powerfull criminal (eg the player) would benefit more from a gang then a single person, unless he needed a specialist like an assassin.

 Gangs often 'feel' weird in WM. Especially if they fight a single girl and loose. Knowing that a well trained girl ALWAYS has a chance of defeating a gang of 15 men always made me think of gang members as of useless, weak kittens that can never even be as strong as even 1/15 of any of your girls... Henchmen solve that issue so it is not a bad concept and I don't think it will ruin the game in any way or form.

 Another issue with gangs are demographics... try counting how many people in gangs die each year. Consider also all other gangs fighting eachother in the city. It's a freaking WAR, I mean like a real scale warfare, not some gang violence but Crossgate does now feel like a city in civil war so it is AGAIN couter-intuitive and odd.

 You were right to say that gangs are a bit harder to code BUT they are also very difficult to balance in a way that makes sense to all players AND it is also one of those issues that cannot be resolved with a simple poll as there are to many variable and community can never know what exactly they are voting on so there are some benefits in dropping gangs and I don't really see any serious disadvantages either. As gangs are in WM, they do not ruin the game but they are neither logical nor intuitive. I think a far better design would have been gangs ONLY on enemy side and ONLY girls on your side with all functions that gangs do for the player would be done by warrior girls, as long as girl more or less equals in combat to a gang already why the freck did they include gangs on player side has never been very clear to me...

[fires_flair]

ok, if you guys are going to do away with gangs, would it be possible for those jobs that the gangs did to be assigned in the dungeon or another building to be made so you can place girls in there to do the work. I'm concerned that it would make it so you have to have more girls working these jobs then you do working the traditional WM jobs, like one of the other mods did.

[Xela]

ok, if you guys are going to do away with gangs, would it be possible for those jobs that the gangs did to be assigned in the dungeon or another building to be made so you can place girls in there to do the work. I'm concerned that it would make it so you have to have more girls working these jobs then you do working the traditional WM jobs, like one of the other mods did.

 I understood that Popuri wanted to replace gangs with henchmen, so there will be no huge changes in that area... in any case, there will be like 5 new WM like Sims within an year so some are bound to have gangs

 Also in cases where the game keeps WM in it's name, there should always be a path where you can have most of your girls work at 'traditional' WM jobs or your title will make no sense...

[graodeareia]

The reason I wanted to know what advantages henchmen has is becouse of 2 things. First if it made sense I could replace the Gangs in WMX with single male characters. This would have 2 advantages. First I could use the exact same code that I use for Girl combat. There would be no need for any special code for the gangs. And second is becouse if is that I can introduce male sons. So a male son could either have a administrative job or become a "henchman".
What do you think about that Xela?

[Xela]

The reason I wanted to know what advantages henchmen has is becouse of 2 things. First if it made sense I could replace the Gangs in WMX with single male characters. This would have 2 advantages. First I could use the exact same code that I use for Girl combat. There would be no need for any special code for the gangs. And second is becouse if is that I can introduce male sons. So a male son could either have a administrative job or become a "henchman".
What do you think about that Xela?

 Yeap, that approach has already been discussed on this forum, using male sons in gangs instead of having to sell them to slavery all the time (I think that selling into slavery is a very bad approach by the way, as a player I've never been anywhere close to comfortable with that... and with the fact that you were never even given any other options).

 But the best approach in my mind is a mix (somewhat harder to code thou ). Instead of doing away gangs all together, we could agree that a gang can only exist with a gang leader (henchman or one of your girls) as head. Instead of gangmembers having their own stats, they simply 'add' to girl's/henchman's own battle stats, that way you can still use the same code as for girl fights but remain 'true' to WM's original design as you wanted in one of your previous posts...
 
 Basically this way will not force you to write a large amount of extra code and will be fairly neutral so noone in the community should have strong objections. It's a win - win scenario... well, in any case, that's what I think.

 Only complication here is in case people decide in favor of userguided combat, this way more than a transparent .PNG would have to be made to represent a girl on the battlefield, a couple of 'rugged' looking guys/girls would have to stand behind the leading character/girl. That can be done fairly easy thou... We can always put together a team to take care of these things so you can work on the code.

[graodeareia]

Gangs often 'feel' weird in WM. Especially if they fight a single girl and loose. Knowing that a well trained girl ALWAYS has a chance of defeating a gang of 15 men always made me think of gang members as of useless, weak kittens that can never even be as strong as even 1/15 of any of your girls... Henchmen solve that issue so it is not a bad concept and I don't think it will ruin the game in any way or form.

 Another issue with gangs are demographics... try counting how many people in gangs die each year. Consider also all other gangs fighting eachother in the city. It's a freaking WAR, I mean like a real scale warfare, not some gang violence but Crossgate does now feel like a city in civil war so it is AGAIN couter-intuitive and odd.

If you think gangs are the way to go why did you say that?

[Xela]

If you think gangs are the way to go why did you say that?

Because personally I don't think gangs are the way to go, there will be no gangs in Alkion for example (under the current design plans anyways) but I am also not sure that NO gangs is the best way to go in WM:X either, here is why:

 Gangs are one of those elements that separate WM from other similar games... Our team started with plans to make a WM2, now we are so far off the original WM that we are not even planning to keep the name To tell you the truth, I would hate hate similar thing to happen to WM:X as well.

 As you can gather from my first post, I believe that their are two major problems with gangs in WM. One being 15 men that are called ''gang'' being at same strength as one girl. Second demographics. If you simply modify lead girl's/henchman's strength by 100% for every 5 (or so) members of the gang and have less casualties both problems are solved...

 There is me being against gangs as a concept in sim game like WM but I have no way of knowing if my opinion actually reflects majorities opinion on this issue... With userguided battle for example, I was far more certain because I've read countless requests to make u.g. battle more interesting in games similar to WM that had u.g. battle already and requests to add u.g. battle to games that never had it to begin with. With gangs, I have no such information so I offered a combined solution that would in my mind everyone would be happy with. I hope that makes my thoughts on the issue a bit clearer...