Pink Petal Games
Feedback => New Features => Topic started by: sgb on October 28, 2009, 08:50:55 PM
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These aren't pressing issues, but just some thoughts to improve the difficulty of the game. At the moment, once you get established it is flat out impossible to ever lose. The reason for this is that fully trained gangs are invincible killing machines. Once you get the maximum number of gangs, you can just leave one or two on Guard, set the rest to Sabotoge, and hit Next Week until you are declared the winner. This is obviously a problem. Some suggestions:
-Gangs have levels as well as their combat skills. Skills now have a cap based on the current gang level. No amount of Training can surpass this cap until the gang levels up more. (This is also an idea for girls as well. A virgin shouldn't be able to have 100% sex skill.)
-Riskier activities give more XP. Guarding, Training, Watching, etc. should give little to no XP. Grand Theft and Catacombs should offer the highest gain.
-Even 100% skill gangs should have a chance of losing a fight.
This way it would take a lot longer to get fully trained gangs, making the player more vulnerable to attacks throughout the game. Right now, you can just leave one 100% on Guard and never worry about losing businesses or money. This eventually needs to change.
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I have had 4 squads of maxed out gaurds with level four weapons and full potions completely wiped out by a 38 rebelliousness 50% combat skill girl.
I think there are other things that need to be worked out long before we up the difficulty. Leave this idea until after the bugs have been worked out.
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Girls going berserk have more severe results than gang fighting. The problem is once you have a gang at 100%, they will pretty much never lose to another gang while Guarding or Sabotaging making the end-game too easy.
And I already said this was meant for something after the current bugs get dealt with.
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Regardless they are good ideas and placed in the to-do file.
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I'll put it here because this is about gangs, more or less, but the 'kidnap' option for gangs seems to have a less than 10% success rate that has remained constant since the beginning. The chance that the gangs will encounter a girl who they need to use a net on seems to be even lower.
Maybe the find rate for girls should be set much higher given that the effective cost to kidnap a girl is 1500gp which is much higher than simply buying a girl, not to mention they aren't even slaves when you catch them. At the very least 'kidnapping' a girl should use nets most of the time. I practically never see nets used.
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Well, non slave girls have higher value so it's only logical that cost of acquiring them is higher.
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The problem with that logic is that you can buy a slave and free her at no additional cost, making slaves cheaper. That being said, I have no problem with the current success/failure rate when making kidnapping attempts. What I don't understand is why no one at all complains when you kidnap girls off the street and force them to work for you. There should be negative consequences for kidnapping (at the very least, kidnapped girls should have a vastly higher rebelliousness rating for being forced to work against their will).
If the intent is that the girls are coming willingly, then perhaps the mission should be changed to reflect that (perhaps call it "recruit girls" or something).
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What I don't understand is why no one at all complains when you kidnap girls off the street and force them to work for you. There should be negative consequences for kidnapping (at the very least, kidnapped girls should have a vastly higher rebelliousness rating for being forced to work against their will).
Well, if I remember rightly, the idea is that the goons kidnap homeless and vagrant girls: anyone who they think won't be missed. Which also explains the fairly low success rate. I agree the rebellion rating should be higher: higher than slaves bought at the market, not so high as women kidnapped from defaulting customers. Probably put the value in the 25-45 range.
This does raise the interesting possibility of being able to decide how great a risk the goons will take when kidnapping girls. Higher risk means more girls coming in, but suspicion goes up much faster, and if you get too far out of line, the army turns up and gameovers your operation. Maybe. Perhaps give the player 10 turns warning so he can try and get some dirt on the garrison commander, or kidnap the mayor's daughter so that the assault gets called off.
There's also the possibility that irate citizens might send assassins. This being Crossgate, I expect the assassins would be beautiful and female and (if the attempt proved unsuccessful) would make interesting additions to the players stable. As well as telling him who paid for the hit, opening the way for possible reprisals.
Of course, this is all a lot of work, so file it under blue sky speculation for now.
If the intent is that the girls are coming willingly, then perhaps the mission should be changed to reflect that (perhaps call it "recruit girls" or something).
The turn summary messages used to say that some of the girls were tricked into coming willingly, and some were seized against their will. I don't think any of them have ever been recruited as such.
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How about have a few female rivals that you can get the option to enslave them or not.
It would also be useful if their were pro's and cons to leading your rivals to safety, killing them, or casting them out into the street.
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Leading them to safety gives you a good chance of getting something important in return but you do have a risk of betrayal or him comming back to threaten your buisness.
Killing them allow's you to know that he will not be threatening you any more but it would stiffen the resulve of the other syndicates attempts at destorying you and also likely lessen the chances of them surrendering.
Casting them outinto the street could give the rival leaders a change to regroup or unite. But you don't get any unwanted attenchion to the other gangs.
You could also have a setting where you have your troops get an option to raid an enemy brothel and you have the option of killing the slaves there or capturing them. (Obvious as to the pro's and cons there would me measured in less slave you can capture but more you can kill)
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That would be very cool if the rival gang leaders were girls (perhaps with their own special type, differentiating them from slave/normal/catacombs girls) who you could recruit/enslave when they are defeated (as alternatives to leading them out of the city/throwing them to the streets/killing them). By recruiting them, you could gain their assets (buildings, money, gangs, whores) as well as having the leader working for you.
What if this was the default way to gain new property? Assume there are a fixed number of buildings suitable for your criminal enterprises in the city, you own one (or two or three, some small number), and the way to gain more is to defeat your rivals and capture their territory and assets. The more territory you control, the more power you gain: you get more brothels, girls, gangs, money, businesses to extort, etc.
Maybe divide the map up into sectors, with each sector having some resources for the owner to draw upon (buildings to own, some number of potential customers, gangs to be recruited, special buildings and resources - a catacombs entrance, a viras plant farm, a hospital, etc).
Maybe I'm getting carried away here too >;o)
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oi vey, first people want your gangs and staff to all be girls, now this? if people keep doing this the entire world will be populated entirely by girls. Generally a criminal organizations leaders tend to be men, women are much rarer. maybe having a small % chance for an enemy leader to be a woman. I just want to get this across, it breaks the realism when all your possible enemies/soldiers/people are beautiful women you can fuck and is one of the main ridiculous points of H games.
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I don't think anyone suggested the gangs should be girls, I was just suggesting the leaders.
On the topic of stretching realism to the breaking point, the game already has the players accept that they are running a brothel in a world where girls fall through dimensional holes from other universes and wander the streets seeking employment as whores so they can earn enough money to find their way home. I don't think making the leaders of the enemy gangs female is going to strain many players' willingness to suspend their disbelief. If it does, then don't add in any and/or remove existing girls with the gang leader tag, and the problem is solved.
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I do see exodia's point, though. Why shoutd *every* possible person in the whole game be a woman? Its not like the PC is the only guy in Crossgate. Leave it as it is. In my opinion, it would be a needless complication to the game, with no discernable benefit. If this were a different type of game, I might not feel that way, but the focus shouldn't really be on the gang leaders, or at least, not right now. If this game eventually becomes a larger simulator of lots of different things (which I do not really support, but if it happens, whatever), then it maybe should be tossed in.
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I was thinking of it as a reward for defeating your rivals. As it is now, there are no rewards, except in the end, you "win." I don't feel as if I have won the game by defeating them, though. As it is now, your rivals are more of an annoyance to click through all the related messages at the end of each turn than anything else.
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That would be very cool if the rival gang leaders were girls (perhaps with their own special type, differentiating them from slave/normal/catacombs girls) who you could recruit/enslave when they are defeated (as alternatives to leading them out of the city/throwing them to the streets/killing them). By recruiting them, you could gain their assets (buildings, money, gangs, whores) as well as having the leader working for you.
What if this was the default way to gain new property? Assume there are a fixed number of buildings suitable for your criminal enterprises in the city, you own one (or two or three, some small number), and the way to gain more is to defeat your rivals and capture their territory and assets. The more territory you control, the more power you gain: you get more brothels, girls, gangs, money, businesses to extort, etc.
Maybe divide the map up into sectors, with each sector having some resources for the owner to draw upon (buildings to own, some number of potential customers, gangs to be recruited, special buildings and resources - a catacombs entrance, a viras plant farm, a hospital, etc).
Maybe I'm getting carried away here too >;o)
I like the idea for being able to capture gang/rival leaders and putting them to work.
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I suppose there's no reason why defeating a rival shouldn't mean getting a few more girls. If the rival runs whores of his own, you can probably your pick of them. And even if he is a guy, he's probably a mistress or two that you can collar.
But yeah, I'd like to avoid the "everyone important in the game is female except the PC" cliche, and female rivals is definitely a move in that direction.
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I suppose there's no reason why defeating a rival shouldn't mean getting a few more girls. If the rival runs whores of his own, you can probably your pick of them. And even if he is a guy, he's probably a mistress or two that you can collar.
But yeah, I'd like to avoid the "everyone important in the game is female except the PC" cliche, and female rivals is definitely a move in that direction.
It shouldn't be every rival, every gang is lead by a woman. Just rarely. Occasionally when a rival comes to you after defeat, an option to employ them pops up, ditto for gang fights, occasionally you get a message after a gang fight 'Your gang notices a particularly attractive woman in the other gang, so they kidnap her after defeating them'.
Nothing more than 10-20% I'd say.
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I guess. I wouldn't want to do anything that couldn't be done with the current events system, though - if it'd have to be programmed specially, I think there are enough other things to do. It's just my opinion.
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But yeah, I'd like to avoid the "everyone important in the game isfemale except the PC" cliche, and female rivals is definitely a move inthat direction.
Fair enough.
I guess. I wouldn't want to do anything that couldn't be done with thecurrent events system, though - if it'd have to be programmedspecially, I think there are enough other things to do. It's just myopinion.
If we are willing to accept random girls as leaders/mistresses of leaders, then we can implement it in scripts now. They won't look or behave any differently than "normal" random girls, however, so it wouldn't be my solution of choice. There may be a way in scripts to get non-random girls, but if so I don't know how it is achieved.
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Why not install a mod or addon for female rival art. Like you designat another girl type not just for random or slave but Rival. You split up the female rivals by name. Thus you would have a special unique characters you can only aquire by conquering them.
It would give you an insentive on defeating rivals as well as enslaving them.
You can also put that the female rivals can grant certain bonuses to the brothel's their in.
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I am uncertain whether or not the scripts can grant a specific, non-random girl. And even if they can, there is no tag in the .girls files that prevents the girl from being acquired by other means. Currently, the tags are numbered, 0 for "normal:, 1 for "slave", 2 for "catacombs". Any other number for that variable is interpreted as tagging the girl "normal". Necno would need to add a "script only" value for the tag for this to work.
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Easy to do without changing the template. I just have to add a new script command and they are very easy to add.
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Could we add a negative affect for pregnancy/insem in the jobs? I'm sure that that makes sense enough, would you do an anonymous preggers girl? It's a good cash earner and atm there isn't any reason not to keep girls pregnant, besides a player abiding by more realistic roleplay. (I guess you could assign different jobs to those pregnant in the next version, like putting them in a different brothel for monsters, I don't think aesthetics is a priority for them, or plain other jobs, but a pregnant 8 weeks to go stripper?)
Also, You can shoot me for asking but how long is it until the next version? I really like 1.29 over 1.26 but the borked pregnancy/insem thing keeps breaking my games. (yes I did read the download thread, I read 1-3 weeks so at the latest 17 nov?)
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My opinion is that pregnancy should lower constitution (and maybe looks?) more and more over time (and then restore them to normal after the birth), and that pregnancy should count as a fetish.
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I thought that pregnancy *was* a fetish...
As for lowering constitution, well, that's more of a gray area - if anything, it would only happen in the latter half of the pregnancy. Actually, this might already happen, since I thought (but haven't ever explicitly checked) that girls got tired more quickly while pregnant. I definitely wouldn't lower looks, since it *is* a fetish, although I'd drop combat stats down to zero rather quickly.
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I think any girls who play this may be offended if you made pregnancy lower looks.... also it doesn't really, even in RL.
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Knocked up hot chick = still hot, IMNSHO. I wouldn't want to bang one - there's something vaguely creepy to me about having sex next to a baby, even if it hasn't been born yet - but they're still hot. I've also known girls who were kinda average looking but suddenly became super hot - practically overnight - when they got pregnant. It's a weird thing.
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Hormones, mate. Girls need to keep guys around when they're otherwise incapacitated, so they release a bunch of "hey, I'm hot" hormones. It's science.
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It's not just hormones, you can see it in photos too. It might be a genetically coded response to visual stimuli as well.
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I like those ideas about dropping combat skills and constitution near the end. Perhaps raise the chance of small scars? (Stretch marks?) As for looks, I'm either way, I'd like to see a slight drop in the looks department (pregnancy isn't as wider fetish appeal as, say nice figure), perhaps giving the girl the temp. trait of preg/insem to add a fetish and put in place these changes? (Although I think that'd be a given seeing its the easiest way) If you wanted, you could make two/four traits for early/late preg and a different set for insem, needless complication? If we're just adding in different traits, I don't think so. Gives the preg/insem some depth. However, can you add time-sensitive traits that develop? I haven't seen that so far.
On another topic, disease. I've had 1 girl in the hours and hours I've played this get a disease, and she was low health (single-digits) Is that a perquisite? She died before I could see any effects or trait blurb, but I thing diseases should have a much higher occurrence. I never have to use the Cure for XYZ, cluttering up the store items with useless items effectually. Brothel girls may be more immune, checks and such, but stripper/street girls should have a high(er) incidence of picking up diseases.
This may be planned, but also, if we are getting a drub lab building (?) we could use the girls in a good way to provide health care, even have a doctor (perhaps a new trait to train up the girls working the in lab?) to perform safe abortions? If we wanted to make use of a potential 'doctor' we could make them male only? Use up some of those male children. We could also make the more serious diseases need one, such as aids. Using girls in the lab for health care, a potential job would be providing care to raped/goon attacked/fresh out of the dungeon/XYZ girls, like nurses. Hell, forget using the drug lab and make a clinic building. Just throwing suggestions out there, I think much more fragile girls (not the trait, but maybe you could use girls, *nurses?* to rehabilitate girls that pick up that trait?) Would mean a vast difference between evil (uses up girls like kleenex) and good play styles, while adding a considerable expense to the running of you empire (Which would be optional, according to you budget/play style). A clinic could also be used for your gang-members, but I you want to limit them to potions, I guess that keeps the two sides separate. The gangs don't have *individuals* worth anything, except if you add in girls/sons to them, but thats another story for later.
Sorry if this is in the works/too much to code, and the doctors being male thing is just to use the rather annoying sons, it's always disappointing to get a boy, what a loss of income. They can be girls too, using up nerdy girls with high intelligence, or making it child-only could be good, are we getting a nursery/dorm/added depth with the children? Perhaps you could have a list of *school/training* options for a young child, from that building, and pay weekly for them to develop into specialists such as Doctor/Drug Cook/Matron/Teacher (are matrons still in the works or are *Madames* superseding them?. Teacher? Well why pay for children's tuition when you can just use a spare person and save on costs?!) Other skills like martial arts/massage/beauty school/dance/XYZ wouldn't make a specialist, but give you highly skilled children that you can put into use in your operations (Gang Leader/prostitutes/strippers/what have you) A Teacher could come from extra training from a field, say first a girl learns dance, and then you train here to Teach. She can then teach dance at living cost rates.
Making a specialist be capturable from the territory event (man sells daughter ect) or making a customer who's a specialist who gets caught not paying could result in the option to *force* employ them, to get cheap workers in a more evil and far cheaper (faster?) way.
I know that may seem a lot to do but this would improve the difficulty, while giving the option to micro manage or just not care. You could use your play style to influence how you implement these things, without having to go into too much detail. And this thread is 'suggestions for difficulty', so thats my *rather long* two cents. (Got a bit carried away here)
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I think any girls who play this may be offended if you made pregnancy lower looks.... also it doesn't really, even in RL.
First of all, I am a girl. Second, all I meant was that most people probably wouldn't buy sex from a prostitute in the later stages of pregnancy, and I thought the game should reflect that.
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Why not make it so that customers who don't have the fetish won't hire the services of a pregnant girl? That way, we can keep looks the same and achieve the desired effect. Ditto for the freakish traits (twisted, futanari, mind fucked, etc) that only those who have the fetish would be interested in? If I were ever to seek the services of a prostitute, I wouldn't hire one who was packing the wrong equipment, so to speak - why would customers in Crossgate be any different?
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Very true. I wasn't sure that you could bar customers (modify their behavior?) so that they do not seek out girls that have undesired traits, unless the customer fancies that fetish. Why make mind-fucked girls be a fetish? (Is it a fetish? I thought it was just a trait from abuse)
I much prefer that, it makes sense that a fancier of a trait will hire that girl, and those who loathe it avoid it. Perhaps we could see far more use of traits as a tool for customer behavior and general numbers. By general numbers, why not make it that a more varied assortment of girls will attract more customers in general, whilst if you have too many girls catering for a particular fetish, customer numbers thin out. You can always play around with this, say forget catering to all and go niche, just put quite a few girls on the stripbar to entice more customers to negate that limited appeal. I'd love to see a more complex use of traits in this regard, maybe its *too* much to strike a balance for those who like micro managing and those who like to cruise with less to worry about, but I think the balance can be struck without too much fuss.
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Mind-fucked people emit an aura of wrongness or disturbedness. You can feel something horrible happened to them just by looking at them or being in the same room as them. It's creepy, and I can't imagine even thinking about having sex with someone like that. So, personally, I think they should be on the fetish-only list.
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'Bad' traits having more of a drawback would certainly be a good idea, though at the same time it's not exactly realistic that a customer could identify some of these traits in advance. While the brothel would have to disclose a girl being a futa or pregnant in advance to the customer, you couldn't tell if a girl was Yandre until it was too late.
@ Trex: Mind-fucked means the girl has 0 rebeliousness forever. It does make sense as a negative fetish though, since it would essentially be like fucking a doll. Most customers certainly wouldn't want that.
As for the disease never happening comment, maybe it's just better to take it right out IMO. I don't see it adding anything to the game beyond forcing more trips to the store.
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While that's true that someone couldn't tell from the appearance to a girl's trait (Mostly), repeat custom would be hard if the girl was the polar opposite of what you thought/got. Not making the traits a 100% customer selector would balance that out. (Say a 70% new customer- 30% regulars mix, or however you want to make it.)
I knew mind-fucked was practically the same as broken willed, just theoretically worse. (game wise) I've never encountered a girl with both, although being mind-fucked is just a far more severe progression of a broken will.
Well, being a brothel simulator, making disease more prevalent and serious would be a logical way to make the game harder. A more simple solution to what I wrote would be just as good, if not more so. I agree in its current form it doesn't really add much to the game, but for realism and as something that can be already built on, I think it has potential to be expanded on without too much fuss.
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Like have a sector in the game where you can attract different groups of customers. Like customers who had sex with mind fucked girls will likely lower the number of customers who don't have a fetish for it to show up.
A thought just struck me what if you send a client to the dungion but if he's remained there long enough you get a chance for his daugter showing up to make a deal for his release and you get another set of options to choose from.
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One thing I've noticed when reading suggestions at times is that a good portion seems to be either to make things more expensive, or 'your suggestion sucks since cost isn't an issue'.
Why not set a cap on the net profit a brothel can bring in? It makes the game harder and then we wouldn't have people running up to every suggestion that has a monetary cost in it saying "Money isn't an issue, take your suggestion and shove it". Not to mention, some of us don't spend several hours playing to reach the point where we are gaining a hundred thousand per turn.
In other words, Make it to where, after taxes and the like, you can only gain a net profit of 5000 times the number of brothels you have.
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there already is a limit, customers are limited in each brothel unless you throw a ton of girls into the strip bar, and capping gold is unrealistic and far too obvious a game mechanic, it would break realism and people would go "WTF?!" when they hit it ingame.
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Yeah, right now the basic issue is just to balance things. The mechanisms are, in my opinion, fine - they just need tweaking and playtesting.
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Like have a sector in the game where you can attract different groups of customers. Like customers who had sex with mind fucked girls will likely lower the number of customers who don't have a fetish for it to show up.
A thought just struck me what if you send a client to the dungion but if he's remained there long enough you get a chance for his daugter showing up to make a deal for his release and you get another set of options to choose from.
Yes, specializing and even enticing customers over time would allow you to make one of your brothels a niche service, logically a place that only caters for say loli lovers will be renown for that fetish and have a stronger attraction to customers. A cap on how many will ultimately trek to your den of loli would rely on how many strippers are luring in jons and whatever else you like. I think increasing the danger to the girls could be implemented if you consider that via specializing, customers of all dispositions learn about who you employ, and thus will try any of their fantasies on your girls. It would increase the difficulty a bit too.
Hell, you could tweak the traits so that strong, tough girls will not entice danger, yet a mind-fucked, broken willed, fragile girl dominated brothel would increase their risk. I think that's ultimate customization though, and logically restricting it to the more prevalent (traits you could sense such as loli *seen as weak*/ Strong-Tough *seen as capable to fight back*) and not doing every single trait is commonsense. Even lumping traits into a few loose groups and assigning group stats for dangerous events is more practical.
On your second point, Yes, that would make a good father (for not ratting out his daughters) thing possible. Buying freedom, swaping for wife/daughter(s)/The whole lot, release for compassionate reasons are some basic options. I like this idea! Just hope *if* its made it doesn't trigger crashes like with the *opponent turns to you* event.
I wouldn't cap incomes, as its been rightly put that customer limitations and future game development (Varied Buildings ect) will take care of the money issue. Implementing better customer behavior for the brothels isn't something I think would be too difficult, and would add something to take into consideration when planning, but again that's optional as it isn't *forced* onto you. I may be wrong with the amount of effort needed for it but it gives those who want more difficulty the option to tackle it. Without being too outlandish.
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How about create more cost's for certain jobs that mostly become available as the game progresses. Kind of like if you want to purchase body armor for your gangs (I'm guessng chainmail and plate) it improves your groups defense and survivability but also costs more to maintain.
Or if you get some of the members of the gang arrows or crossbows you need to worry about amunition.
The stage one weapon for all gangs could be clubs since it cost's nothing to make a club. (Some wood and a carving knife)
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If your worried about to much money just make us start paying Taxes =O
and if I rememeber correctly necno planing on implementing diet for girls (skinny,normal,obese)
so theres 2 (possible) ways to cap meat
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We are paying taxes, although the tax rate is rather low (7-8% eyeballing it, though it might be taxes on operating income rather than operating profits, in which case the tax rate is even lower). Move to a more typical (for the modern day - I know next to nothing about the medieval tax structure) with a flat corporate tax rate of 25-40% (depending on how friendly the government is to businesses) on operating profits (total income from operations minus the costs of running the operations - many countries also tax interest, so you could add that in too). Leaving out interest, it should require much of a change to the code to shift the tax structure.
An idea I've been playing around with to fix the income problem is to introduce a "minimum wage" for girls. Currently, so can pay your free girls next to nothing, and they never complain. Slave girls you take everything from (as is appropriate, IMHO), but they earn less from customers than free girls, which makes no sense to me. Why would a customer care if he's sleeping with a slave or a free girl? In any case, it becomes significantly more profitable to run an operation with entirely free girls whom you are extracting >90% from. Having a maximum house take of 60% seems reasonable, and girls should be asking for raises as they become more skilled. Slaves then become more profitable than free girls.
Next up is to fix the pricing of slaves. Currently, they are absurdly cheap. Assuming they will work half time in the brothel, attracting an average of 8 customers per week, and an expected 10% return per week, a fully trained slave should sell for about 7000 according to my back-of-the-napkin calculations. I don't yet have a formula for taking training costs into account to find the price of a less than fully trained slave, but I could whip something up if I knew a) the cost associated with training a slave for 1 week, b) the average amount of increase in a each stat per training period (with 0, 1, 2, 3, and 4 partners), and c) the cost of accommodations.
Because there are no costs associated with acquiring free girls (assuming you meet them on the street, not kidnap them), they are still more profitable than slaves. Under the same assumptions (plus a house take of 60%), a fully trained free girl is worth 4800 (lower as the girl's take gets higher) which you currently don't have to pay. To balance them out, there should be some sort of hiring costs put in place for free girls.
That could be injecting too much realism to the game, though, so I will understand if no one wants to go down that road.
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There's something to be said about how absurdly easy it is to acquire girls with 80+ looks. Not even because they're inexpensive (or free), but because they're so very common. It's like you can't throw a cat in Crossgate without hitting a stunning woman at the peak of feminine attractiveness. And that's not even including the add-on girl packs we got so far, which are truly admirable endeavors in many ways but really don't help solve the problem. (If there is such a problem as "the girls in this town are too hot". :D)
I mean, as I see it, a woman with 100% looks should be the kind of girl wars are fought over, a rare and coveted prize a brothel owner would take ten mortgages on his establishment to acquire; I'm talking about Helen of Troy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_of_troy)- or Diao-Chan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diao_Chan)-grade beauty here. And yet there's one or two of them at the market every week.
I've actually made a "Plain girl" random girl type with bad stats and looks that rarely top 40%, and challenged myself to run a game only using those instead of buying supermodels in bulk. To be honest it was a lot more fun than usual, gameplay-wise, and it's even kind of a struggle in the beginning because you get very few clients and those you do get don't pay much. (The only bad part is that I can't for the life of me find hentai-type pictures of specifically plain girls, if such a thing is even possible in the style. There's ugly if you search for it, but I'm not looking for outright ogres.)
Of course I could go in the editor and manually tone down charisma and beauty for everyone, but that only solves the problem for me. Heheh.
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if they were that beautiful, they'd earn more in the brothel. And the fact you see 100% beauty as to be on the level of two probably fictional characters from myths... well that's how you choose to see it, not how it is. and remember Looks is a combination of 2 stats, beauty and charisma, good charisma can make up for 50 beauty and the girl can still make it to 100% looks I believe. So not all 100 looks girls are drop dead gorgeous, they just know how to move, act, and talk, to raise their appeal.
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Yeah, that's one of my concerns as well: beauty is too cheap.
Maybe something else for a possible configuration screen.
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if they were that beautiful, they'd earn more in the brothel. And the fact you see 100% beauty as to be on the level of two probably fictional characters from myths...
You misunderstand my point. The thing is, 100% looks is the hard cap. It is the point where no possible improvement can be made, whether from natural beauty or trained grace or behavior or even clothing. That is the stuff of myth and legend, which is why I brought these particular characters up. If I get a girl who is at maximum attractiveness before I even buy her a pair of shoes, that should be a really special girl. It should be a rare occurence, and an extremely compelling one in terms of game mechanics. But as it stands, such beauty is commonplace. You have no incentive to treasure it. Work her to death; who cares? You can get another one easily and she'll be just as pretty.
That said... For the sake of this discussion, let's throw out my "100% looks is divine perfection in body and/or grace and it is the stuff of legends" thing, since I do agree that it can be a matter of individual perspective. Forget that entirely, and let's consider game mechanics.
We have an issue of scale and comparison. Let's face it: pretty much every unique girl that's going to be put in this game is a knockout to begin with. I mean, I made a "plain girl" template purely for gameplay purposes, but I'm not seeing any "average girl megapack! get your regular women here!" thread anywhere on this forum. At this point, there aren't many unique girls who have less than 50% looks. We're usually talking about 60 or more, with many of them having an outright 100. The result is that over half of our 1-100 looks scale is basically pointless, since you can afford to only consider buying/hiring getting girls that are 80+ because they're everywhere.
On top of that, we have all the 100% girls who are exactly as attractive as one another (and by attraction I mean the looks stat, the charisma/beauty combination.) Not only does it make the charisma/beauty distinction completely meaningless, since no improvement on either will make any difference, but it also makes these girls less unique.
And there's more: once you have a bunch of natural 100% looks girls, you pretty much throw the entire clothing system out the window. Let's say I'm a real life pimp, and I got a beautiful girl, the hottest woman I've ever seen. You can be sure I'm going to deck her out in the most beautiful clothes and the most expensive jewelry. She'll be blinged the fuck out. I'll spare no expense to make her look even more gorgeous. But in the game, when you can buy 100% looks girls right off the rack, there's no incentive to do that. Clothes are just a waste of money. At that point, expensive dresses and jewelry are just used to bring a regular girl up to speed, but why would you even have a regular girl to begin with when you've got all these knockouts around?
Let's try arbitrary numbers. Let's say a regular woman, not super cute, not ugly, neither particularly elegant nor trashy, is 40 looks. We put, say, a butterface with great tits and a sexy voice at 30, and anything under 10 is kind of repulsive. On the other side of the scale, we put a reasonably attractive woman at 50 and knockouts start at 60. (I'm pulling these numbers out of my ass, of course. I'm just trying to give an idea of proportion here.)
Already, we start with the idea that 60 and up is pretty damn hot and 40+ isn't too bad. This is already different from the current mindset of the game where anything under 90 isn't even worth looking at. On top of that we now have the top 40 grades of the 1-100 scale that can be used to describe and compare extremely beautiful women.
Now imagine that there's a percentage in play in the slave market and town walks, where most girls you see and meet are in the 40-60 range. 20-40 and 60-80 are uncommon, and 0-20 and 80-100 are rare.
Suddenly you can't run your brothel on 100 looks girls anymore, because they are few and far between and they'll get overworked. You'll have a few 60-80s to pick up the slack, and maybe some 40-60s as strippers or barmaids since you need a bunch and it's not a big deal if they don't make a lot of money.
On top of that, let's say you want to satisfy specific fetishes. You want a dickgirl in your brothel, because dickgirl fans keep leaving your place disappointed. There's a 35 looks dickgirl in the market, and you can buy her right now. Are you going to get her, or are you going to wait for a 90+ looks girl who also happens to have a penis? If 90+ girls are common, that's not a problem, but if they're rare, you may not want to wait until one shows up. Suddenly, that 35 looks girl you wouldn't even have paid attention to before has become useful to the game. The number of strategic decisions the game demands of you has increased, and challenge becomes subtly greater.
Now I don't know if the specifics of that sort of thing are feasible, and it's a blatant oversimplification, but it's just a basic example of one way things could go. The main point is that the way things are, with how common high looks % is, in most circumstances a girl is either extremely valuable or basically worthless. It's almost a binary switch with no strategic depth.
I like how skills are done though, they seem really sensible and so far I approve of how everyone's handled them.
EDIT: I'm sorry if it seems like I'm coming down harshly on the custom girl packs; that's not my intention, and I certainly appreciate all the effort that goes in them. It's just a balance/strategy issue that I think needs adjustment and I don't want to disparage anyone's work.
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What if you got rid of the "looks" stat, and simply had beauty and charisma act separately? Keep beauty as an unchangeable stat, or something which can only be improved with makeup and/or clothing (and perhaps cap the maximum contribution of each). Keep charisma the same. Then instead of checking for looks, check for charisma or beauty, whichever is more appropriate for a given situation.
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I agree with you Lord Shame. I don't even buy girls on the market if they're below 80% there's no need. Because 80%+ is fairly common not to mention full 100% I generally find at least one 100% on my first search in the market. None of these girls have high rebellion either.
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Nice summation, LS. I, personally, agree with you - from a gameplay perspective. For the modders, I can see why they'd say "no". Who wants to make ugly girls? Who the hell determines which ones are ugly, given that they're all taken from rather good-looking [drawn] women from across the width and breadth of the Internet?
Still, there is an issue of quality bloat among all the girls, from the randoms to the modded. There's really only two ways to fix that - either all the modders have to agree to a certain standard (good luck; and after you succeed, there are some refridgerators I'd like to you unload in Siberia), OR someone has to create a equilizer mod. Even the second option isn't, perhaps, a good one; I would hope that any modmodder would get an OK from the modders he's changing the works of (which he may not get), and even then the standards for everything would be wholly arbitrary based off of that one person's idea.
Or, you know, we could do nothing. I bet that's what happens. I'd do something about it if I could find a few hours of spare time, but that's not happening either.
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or, we can add a beauty multiplier to the config screen I proposed earlier on.
Set it to 50% and 100% girls will appear as 50%, while 50% works out as 25%. I think I'd default it to 100 but set mine to 75.
Another useful value when we come to define difficulty levels :)
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Well, that might help, but then the issue comes that you'd *never* find the 100% looks girl. I wouldn't want that - especially since I think charisma is still capped, and IIRC looks isn't an alterable stat, meaning you couldn't even make one.
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In the current implementation, the save files track additions to charisma (and other stats) separate from the base stat, with the end result being the sum of the two capped at 100. I think that when the game calculates looks, it takes beauty + charisma base + charisma modifiers, and derives looks from that, without taking the cap on charisma into account. So with a beauty of 50, base charisma of 50, and +100 in charisma mods, you'd get 100 looks (assuming that looks is the average of charisma and beauty). If this is the case, then even with a cap on beauty, it is still trivial to get even the ugliest girl to 100% looks.
[edit]
Nevermind, turns out I was wrong. I was seeing the boost from traits, not the overage from charisma.
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Well, that might help, but then the issue comes that you'd *never* find the 100% looks girl. I wouldn't want that - especially since I think charisma is still capped, and IIRC looks isn't an alterable stat, meaning you couldn't even make one.
Well... if I fiddle with the maths for a bit, I should be able to work out some sort of bell curve so higher values still happened, but rarely. Or we could set it so that beauty was always high relative to charisma, so you'd always be able to train looks up to the sort of level the game generates currently. Be a bit difficult if the % drops below 50, but there might be scope for some rare and expensive beauty enhancers, too
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If you are going to be adding the option to mess with the beauty stat, you could make it a randomly generated number on a bell curve. To use a dice-rolling analogy, you could assign 5d20 to the beauty stat, which would average 52.5 with exceptionally high and low values being rare. Given that it is a program, you can assign virtual dice of any size (for example, 5d21-5 averages exactly 50 with a range of 0-100). More dice means a steeper curve.
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If you make the looks value random, though, then you have to wonder why not do so for *all* stats? Is that not the point of having "random" girls?
It's not that I disagree with you; quite the opposite. I, personally, might like to see a total randomizer for (non-random) girls that redoes all their stats, perhaps taking traits into account or something. I just don't know if that's doable or desirable. If such a change was implemented (or modded), then the only difference between random girls and specific ones would blur, and the specifics would basically become no more than randoms with specific traits and names. Again, I personally do not see that as a terribly bad thing; it would make the game less predictable, and better balanced for those of us who wish it so and won't or can't *mod* it so.
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or, instead of all the crazy complicated stat system changes which would take forever to balance perfectly, you could limit how many unique girls can be in each brothel, and tweak the random girls stat probabilities. You would need to make them more special in some way, say give them custom abilities, but only allow like 3 in a brothel at any given time. This would make unique girls more "unique", and balance them at the same time. It would also give random girls their time to shine, and if you make great looking random girls rarer, solves your problem too.
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I actually kind of liked the idea of just not using a looks percentage and just using the straight-up beauty and charisma values so there is no "perfect" or 100%, at least unless you make an item that could ensure a maxed beauty stat or something since it's already possible to cap charisma with the help of items (I think).
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My argument to you, exodia, is that you've done too good a job in creating the unique girls. I like the pictures... I wouldn't want to have to stare at the endless lists of random girls.
Plus, this would be taking a step toward SimBrothel (with it's "brothel leaders" or whatever they're called), and I'm of the firm belief that that's not a good idea. There are several reasons for that, the main one being that this game is better than that one *now* - why copy an inferior product?
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Giving unique Named characters a special ability, but limiting the use of them so you have to use generic characters is a feature started by sim brothel? Your argument is that it's "what simbrothel did"... that's not really an argument. Secondly, this isn't really an H game, I don't even spend time looking at girls pics in turn summary. And I think random girls are meant to be the meat of your brothels, its just the torrent of girlpack mods that changed this.
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Wait... you've spent hours looking for pictures for your mods, and you don't even look at them? Huh. Well, thanks for finding the pics for *me*, anyway.
And you're right; it's not strictly an argument. It's more of an opinion, but one that may be pertinent to the discussion.
As for whether random girls are supposed to be the main part of your brothels, well, that may have been (probably was, actually) the original goal but given that the girlpack mods *do* exist now, I would think that the assessment should change accordingly. The girls are there now, and I think it's safe to assume pretty much everyone that plays the game for more than an hour has at least a couple of them downloaded. Given that there has, indeed, been a change the game should probably change with it - that's why necno is using beta releases to begin with. You may disagree, but I would guess (perhaps wrongly) that necno does not. Given that a change should be made, the question is "what change?", and I (along with some others) am only giving a couple possible answers to that question.
And as for balance: I think that *IF* a randomizer is created, it would be a LOT easier to balance than a lot of random mods. Mods, by definition, are not standardized to the game itself but to the mod author's intentions - this idea would reverse that once again.
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or, instead of all the crazy complicated stat system changes which would take forever to balance perfectly, you could limit how many unique girls can be in each brothel, and tweak the random girls stat probabilities. You would need to make them more special in some way, say give them custom abilities, but only allow like 3 in a brothel at any given time. This would make unique girls more "unique", and balance them at the same time. It would also give random girls their time to shine, and if you make great looking random girls rarer, solves your problem too.
I would hate a change like that. Maybe we could make it an option, but I would simply not play the game if it was mandatory. I dislike the random girls for a number of reasons, the primary one being that it is next to impossible to distinguish one from another. If you kept unique girls unique, but randomized their stats, then you still would have only one of each. Much easier to manage.
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hmm, my thoughts on a randomizer its that it shouldn't be completley random, but rather based on the given stats, because if its completely random, the unique girls also feel less special
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I dunno... I think that most people would make traits the deciding factor on "uniqueness"; I know that I do. Stats are pretty ignorable in the main, since they're too easily changed and (at this point, anyhow) they tend to resemble each other at steady 100%'s across the board. Of course, a lot of the traits are repeated everywhere too, but that's a discussion made elsewhere.
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Well, since nearly every skill/stat in the game is trainable/adjustable to the max/min desired, all girls skills and stats tend to end up looking rather similar except for traits and the looks stat. Rebelliousness can vary as well, but a dedicated player can fix that too.
That being the case, I really don't see why it makes any difference at all what the values are for the majority of starting skills and traits. From my perspective, the only thing I care about is how long it will take to train the girl up to the maximum so I can put her to work.
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I think one way to improve difficulty would be instead of starting with 4k of YOUR money. It's being loaned to you by one of your fathers friends.
Depending on whether or not there's a difficulty choice can not only effect how much money you start with but also how much interest is. As it stands 4k is actually more than enough to keep you started. I only spend about half that giving myself 4 gangs and about 2 girls. (Of 80+ beauty)
Or instead of it being a part of the difficulty it could be an option AFTER choosing difficulty. While Hard mode or Extreme what have you will force you to start with a loan.
Paying it back can just be a button added to the bank, I suppose you can even add a button to take out another loan with a maximum of whatever.
The only problem with this... is that it just makes the beginning more difficult rather than the game as a whole. But as it stands the game is painfully easy anyways.
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I'm definitely against the idea to limit the number of custom girls in a brothel. I enjoy the variety, and I personally never have more than one of each type of random girl in a single game. As for a stat randomiser, it sounds like a neat option to have, but it shouldn't be mandatory. If a randomizer was made, it should be a selectable option so you can choose wether to use it or not.
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Another would be to boost rebellion. Some girls have insane amounts of it and it takes a life time to remove them of it. This is common with unique girls and girls you find outside the market (which makes sense)
While I do think girls you find in the market should have a low, low rebellion. Many of them... many of which have a beauty of 80+ are still in the negatives of rebellion. I think slaves should have a rebellion of 0-40/50 at least. (Highest I've seen is 15 or so) I'm aware that girls are random but if they're to receive a new master against their will. I would think... depending on how their previous master treated them. They'd be some what against you at first. I don't think it'd be too unusual to have to re-enforce who is the boss when girls have higher stats. I have no clue as to how girls stats/prices affect them. However I think buying/selling should be determined by not only how good they are in bed but their over-all stats as well. Beauty in particular should have a HUGE increase in cost.
Everything in the game is far TOO cheap. Girls included. I'm still amazed how I can get an elegant gown for 30 bucks but have to spend 200 for makeup. Also not entirely related to difficulty, but would be nice if we could see what an item does in its description Such as
Elegant gown - Blah blah blah +5 to looks
Or however much it increases.
The economics in this game are still pretty out of whack. Which could be changed dramatically with the new building system.
I mentioned it a while ago in another topic, but another thing that could be considered is girls refusing to work if you let them get away with anything. They'll refuse to work, expect expensive accommodations. Perhaps even pocket money.
While being too mean to them will have them make attempts at your life, tell authorities on you, share secrets with rival gangs ect. ect.
But that... could get complicated code wise. :/
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There is a different answer to the stat question.
Cap maximum stats by level(Possible 'except for one at random'-a lot of girls might have stats above the max, would be cool if every level gained unlocked another one for taking to 100). Also make training grant EXP as well as stats. Then make it so it's a little easier to GET levels so you're not stuck in a rut for too long. 255 takes an absolute age to get, and the benefit is honestly small. 100 always seemed far more reasonable to me....
Make the level mean something.
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There is a different answer to the stat question.
Cap maximum stats by level(Possible 'except for one at random'-a lot of girls might have stats above the max). Also make training grant EXP as well as stats. Then make it so it's a little easier to GET levels so you're not stuck in a rut for too long. 255 takes an absolute age to get, and the benefit is honestly small. 100 always seemed far more reasonable to me....
Make the level mean something.
Stat caps isn't a bad idea. It'll give equipped items a longer use as well. And yeah, it takes ages to level your girls. I believe the only benefit is how much they cost per encounter? The problem is finding out where stats should be capped. Say the cap is 25 you put an item on her and her stats will be 30. Or a specific trait will increase it to 30 or what have you.
I like this idea... lol, I don't know if anyone else will though.
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I saw the baseline as roughly 50-55%, with the cap increasing by 5-10 per level. A lot of the random and even custom girls don't go that much higher than that to begin.
This would also allow some variance in price and skills when buying and selling-a level 8 would be worth far, FAR more than a level 1, for instance. Hopefully there'd be major profits in it. Training and selling off should be do-able and even profitable, given that you have several sources of 'infinite' girls. The profit would have to be extreme given the amount of time it would take...
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I saw the baseline as roughly 50-55%, with the cap increasing by 5-10 per level. A lot of the random and even custom girls don't go that much higher than that to begin.
This would also allow some variance in price and skills when buying and selling-a level 8 would be worth far, FAR more than a level 1, for instance. Hopefully there'd be major profits in it. Training and selling off should be do-able and even profitable, given that you have several sources of 'infinite' girls. The profit would have to be extreme given the amount of time it would take...
I broadly agree. It should take more work to max out a girl, and it should be possible to make good money selling her on. Although, I don't think I'd want the selling price to be too profitable, A well trained girl should be virtually priceless. It's just that you can't always find a buyer who can afford what she's worth.
Might be worth having an annual slave fair as well, where the serious dealers can be found and you can sometimes get prices approaching what the girl is worth. That would give you a training deadline, and maybe the chance to buy and sell some rare items...
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What if we made levels the source of improvement in stats? Have training and working grant XP, and then each level grants skill/stat points to be distributed either uniformly, at random, or by the player (set as an option on the config screen).
As far as the selling price for girls goes, I worked out the basic formula for fully trained girls:
f = selling price for fully trained girl
e = earnings per customer
c = expected number of customers per week
m = cost of maintenance
i = expected rate of return on the investment
f = (e * c - m)/i
Less than fully trained girls is:
u = cost of untrained girl
w = expected number of weeks it will take to train fully
t = cost per week to train the girl
u = f * (1 + i)^(-w) - t * (1 - (1 + i)^(-w))/i
Those formulae solve the problem from a strictly financial standpoint. Given that current max customers per girl is 16 per week, assuming 0 maintenance costs, a price of 100 per customer, and an expected return of 10% per week, the maximum price a fully trained girl would sell for is 16,000.
Financial formulae aside, there is room for fudge factors when taking traits into account (how do you value "Cool Scars" or "Aggressive" as examples). There is further room for fudging if we assume that there are intangible values associated with slave ownership which drive prices up. These can have an exponential growth if the benefits are tied to a stat - like beauty - which is highly prized by owners even if it doesn't have a great effect on their bottom lines.
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The issue there is it resembles Sim Brothel Flash Edition a little too much to be comfortable.
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How so?
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I havent played the Flash Sim Brothel in a while but I don't see how any of these ideas are similar to that game.
Sim Brothel has a "special" slave trade but it's by no means time specific. I also saw no value in selling girls in Sim Brothel. If you become a slave trainer, I think it only makes sense that selling well trained girls would be profitable as well.
I like the idea that you could also trade girls for rare items. Rather than just money.
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Because that is EXACTLY the system the Flash Sim Brothel(AKA Sim Brothel Version 1) uses for girl growth.
EXP is spent on raising attributes. EXP is gained through training and work. There are no levels-only EXP and AP(Also gained through work-and only work.) which are used to activate various abilities and traits, some of which are inherant, some of which must be learned via training.
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Hmm... I didn't know you meant the xp system but, I pulled up the game again and you're right. As far as distributing stats by the player goes. That's exactly how Sim Brothel is run.
However, having the player add these stats him/herself would be quite taxing anyways. Too much micromanagement is something of an issue as is. That would increase it by an unrepresented number. Going through each girl one by one and adding various stats would be a huge pain anyways.
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I recall Sim Brothel having a training system where you would train specific stats for each girl, and then spend earned AP's on traits (or whatever they were called). They had ranks for girls, which affected how much you could charge for their services, but ranks were not correlated with skills in any way. There were no levels or XP.
As far as micromanagement goes, I suggested that player distribution be an option for those who like that sort of thing. I would never suggest imposing that on everyone.
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The original Sim brothel had AP and rank for traits. Stat increase was exp and training.
the ranks said what traits you had access to, to be able to spend the ap you gained on. Each of the girls had their own set traits that could get accessed this way.
Or that is how I understood it from playing it.
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I think traits got opened up through training, but I could be wrong. I was a long time ago that I played anyway.
Even if we implemented a similar system to the SimBro training, is there something inherently wrong with that? Tons of games use XP/training to raise stats or skills (in tabletop gaming, there's Ars Magica and Shadowrun as examples), and tons more give points to spend when a character levels (D&D). Both are tried and true systems, I'm not attached to either one.
WM has a level system, which currently has no effect on the game to my knowledge, I was merely proposing a use for it.
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My objection is that keeping track of detailed upgrade paths for all the girls is a needless complication. So far as experience and levels go, I think that if anything the system should be cut down instead of expanded. What good are levels? All that matters is that girls with more experience do better - and that could all be kept track of purely through skill increases. Playing around with levels and such isn't, as I see it, the focus of this game and there's no reason to make it so.
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Something sturck me but it maybe a good idea to have it when Girls don't want to work you can talk to them and get a genreal idea bout how to proceed to get them to work.
Or atleast some sort of status report by someone you hire to keep track on how the girls act and such so you can get an idea at their own behaviors and what is most effective on each girl.
I mean when they first refuse to work it's kind of like shooting at the problem in pitched black and it's not always a good idea to send girls straight to the dungion, sometimes scolding them doesn't work, and purchasing them stuff doesn't seem like a good idea sometimes or increasing their acomidations.
Not to mention you still feel lost once you have done practically everything and you still don't know what to do. I think some way to give the player a general idea how to get the girl motivated into doing her work would be useful.
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When they increase in level how much they cost goes up.
So it's not "useless" but it does take forever. Since no one has agreed to how to run stats. I think keeping them the same is fine. I would just change level to something else or remove it entirely as mentioned by letmein.
Instead their "charge" could increase by their fame and or skills. I think level only increases every day she works. I'm not really sure. But I think an unknown girl would cost next to nothing while a woman known for her beauty and skills would be more expensive.
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@Command: girls not working is more of a bug than a difficulty thing, but regardless, there are a few tricks to get around the problem. The main thing is to lower their rebellion; I've found that any value lower than about -40 will let them work on a pretty routine basis, and once they do than then they'll start working more and more often as they start enjoying it. The thing to do, then, is to get that rebellion level to the magic -40, or if you're in a hurry, at least -20.
There are a couple ways to do that, depending on how you like to play and what you consider exploits. The simplist way is just to buy girls with already low values - this tends to limit you to randoms, though, so if you're like me you'll tend to do this only at the start of the game when you need the steady income. Once you have some money coming in, your options expand a bit: you pretty much can do three things.
First, and perhaps easiest, is to send every girl to the dungeon. For most girls without any "aggressive" traits, a month or so in lockdown with torture should get your rebellion low enough. It's harder to do on the tougher girls, but if you keep them alive and keep working on them, they'll cave sooner or later.
The second choice is to use items. The issue here is that the default items that come with the game aren't really good for this; you'll either have to create your own or find a mod. Currently, the only real item mod is sgb's, which is very decent and has some things that will make lowering rebellion almost trivial given enough money (and, in some cases, time). sgb also did a good job of not making his items feel like exploits, or overpowered - I'd recommend getting his mod regardless of which option you prefer.
The last, and probably toughest, way is to communicate. You have a "Talk to..." button: use it! Chatting slowly makes girls like you more, and once you get them to love you, start asking them to do the other acts. Their rebellion will slowly sink, but more importantly they'll start to enjoy the acts. This method is debatably the most time-consuming, but for the real hard cases it can sometimes actually be quicker than waiting for the girl's will to break. A note, here: use "Scold" sparingly. Even for the more meek girls, it only helps for a while, then it actually starts to raise rebellion. I prefer chatting (not about anything specific). Just remember that even if the rebellion stat isn't visibly lowering, the love stat is rising, and that's the one you're working on with this method.
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I've also discovered that the love stat rises for girls over time even if you never talk to them. I started a test game, and after I-forget-how-many-weeks, I discovered that the girl I picked up on turn one loved me. I never spoke with her, had sex with her, or otherwise took any actions that might influence the love/hate/fear stats. Weird.
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Well, the only reason I can think of is that you are providing a good work environment with decent pay and she like you because of that.
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It's probably a mix of that and the fact that you aren't mean to her either. (And for in-game reasons, if there are other's worse off than her that might make her think you like her more>)
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Decent pay? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I don't charge her for the privilege of working for me, so I guess that's decent... >;o)
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Yeah, you have a point, zodiac. I think the love stat is just rising every turn for no particular reason. Even girls kept isolated (although not tortured) in the dungeon will come to love you after a long enough time.
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its still fairly realistic though, it simulates the day to day contact between you and them, and... whats that syndrome called when you start sympathizing and even liking your captors? Whatever it is, I can see girls gradually getting used to you over weeks, although might want to put a cap on how high this little feature can raise love.
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Stockholm syndrome is an instinctive response to adverse conditions intended to promote survival. Do the victims really love their captors? Who knows.
Having a Stockholm effect for slave girls or those in the dungeon may be appropriate, but for free girls - who could ostensibly pick up and leave at any time - it doesn't make sense.
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Yeah, I will look into this.
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How about the love stat only raises for slaves with certain stacks like a girl who seems to have a mind set more like a pet or something like that. For other slaves their fear would gradually raise, other slaves would simply hate you for just being their master.
You could have some girls who have a certain stat to be completly nertral to you. Like an andriod or something with no emotions. Not very popular but 100% dependable to do their jobs.
Also I was thinking that it's a little to easy for the rivals to fall. WHy not also have some sort of area where it tells you your aproaching a rivals territory. So far some rivals are falling even before your into enemy territory. It just makes the game seem really easy. I mean it needs something to give the player a feeling of gang war. Like in order to beat I rival you wil need to not only capture territory but also sabotoge their holdings as well to desrupt enough of their assets to surrender.
But have some sort of status section that says what your informents are telling you on the size and strength of each gang. It would give the player a feeling that he's actually doing something to an enemy if he can see how much territory he is taking from the enemy and how much is left.
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If she has good accommodation her love would rise also. But it really wouldn't surprise me if there are some balance issues in there as well. Love should only rise when the girl receives kind acts from the player.