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Offline 0nymous

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Girl Classes/Races
« on: April 25, 2015, 09:18:46 AM »
New topic dedicated to Race and Classes suggestions, related to the discussion started here: http://www.pinkpetal.org/index.php?topic=953.1320

Every girl used to be something else before she was bought as a slave/kidnapped/won in an arena fight/ captured in the catacombs/ abducted by inter-dimensional pimp alien slavers.
And every girl is also her own separate species, race, genetic monstrosity or even an artificial construct, although arguably most of them would just be plain old human beings... which doesn't mean that wouldn't carry benefits on its own.
The Class and Race would represent that best instead of cluttering the already extensive trait list.
Every Class and Race should have unique and powerful benefits - since they wouldn't stack like traits did (so no bonuses for a girl being an Adventurer, Assassin and Maid at the same time, for example). This is why some of them may even seem OP.
At least that's the way I'd see it. Comment, discuss, suggest.
Basically, if you have a girl file that doesn't match any if the existing races or classes already proposed, feel free to point it out.
The list can go on.

The format of suggestions I think is best is similar to the trait ones. So:
Class/Race
Short, one to couple of lines description.
-Effects.

Here's my ideas. I took the classes and races already existing in traits (those are mostly listed last), but also did add plenty of my own.
Some, if not most, of the passive effects aren't really compatible with the current version of WM. But I added them anyways since that's what I'd like them to be. It's all open to interpretation and re-iteration in the end. The pluses or minuses in brackets indicate how powerful of an effect on a stat it should have. I'd rather do that than give flat numerical amounts as of yet.


Currently a work-in-progress, so if you find any empty spaces or lacking descriptions I'll most likely edit them in later.

Classes
Code: [Select]
Enigma
Her past is shrouded in a veil of mystery. She either doesn't remember it, doesn't want to remember it, or is hiding something.
-+1 bonus random stat or skill every turn

Homeless
Her past was hopeless. With no real family or friends, she had no stable roof under her head and basically lived on the streets.
-Lower base Confidence (-), Dignity (-) and Refinement (---)
-Lower chances of recapturing her when she escapes

Housewife
She dedicated her life to being a stay-at-home wife, which granted her some experience in housekeeping and family raising abilities.
-Higher base Cooking and Service
-+20% happiness gain when working in your house
-+10% experience gain when working in your house

Schoolgirl
She was in during some form of education, before you crushed her dreams of achieving something with your own plans.
-5% bonus to experience gains

Teacher
She used to teach people... something. Her profession taught her how to make people around more diligent.
-All girls in the same building gain a small experience bonus every turn
-Higher base Intelligence (+)

Doctor
She occupied some prestigious form of an advanced medical profession.
-Higher base Intelligence. (+)
-Higher base Medicine. (++)

Criminal
She used to be juvenile delinquent, petty thief or some other shady character living a lawless lifestyle.
-Lower base Morality (-)
-Has a chance to steal small amounts of money from clients

Crime Lord
She used to be the boss of a mafia or some other powerful criminal organization.
-Lower base Morality (--)
-Higher base Spirit, Confidence and Dignity (+)

Villainess
She was a feared mastermind of evil in her past.
-Lower base Morality (---)
-Higher base Spirit, Confidence, Dignity and Intelligence (++)

Peasant
She used to be on the lowest status class on the social structure. Poor, uneducated and with a lifetime perspective of peddling potatoes.
-Lower base Refinement (--)

Merchant
She was a salesman of something, maybe a shopkeeper. She knows good business when she sees it and is not afraid to haggle.
-Higher chance and more often item purchases
-5% to gold gain

Noble
She used to be a member of some higher social class and is used to all the privileges that come with it.
-Higher base Dignity and Refinement (++)
-Happiness will drastically decrease and Rebelliousness will increase every turn on Accommodation level lower than Wonderful while Dignity is over 30

Princess
She was an aspiring heiress to some throne. Most likely she's incredibly spoiled.
-Higher base Dignity and Refinement (+++)
-Happiness  will drastically decrease and Rebelliousness will increase every turn on Accommodation level lower than High Class while Dignity is over 25

Queen
She was an esteemed female monarch of some nation or people that fell a long way from high grace.
-Higher base Dignity and Refinement (++++)
-Happiness  will drastically decrease and Rebelliousness will increase every turn on Accommodation level lower than High Class while Dignity is over 20

Adventurer
Her life was filled with adventure, excitement and bold questing.
-Higher chance to escape and lower chance of recapturing
-Higher chance of finding something in the Catacombs
-More effective in combat (+)

Soldier
She was a member of some sort of military; a mere grunt, an officer or perhaps even a general, which resulted in a certain sense of discipline drilled into her.
-Higher base Spirit (+)
-Higher base Obedience (+)
-Obedience increases faster when PCHate is below 30
-More effective in combat (+)

Mercenary
She earned her living as a sellsword, selling her skills to the highest bidder.
-More effective in combat (+)

Assassin
Killing was her business and business was good... or so she'd like.
-More effective in combat (++)
-Higher base Agility (+)

Spy
Her profession in the past was espionage, both through infiltration and seduction. 
-Higher base Agility (+)
-Higher base Charisma (+)

Scholar
An esteemed learner of some form of arts or sciences.
-Higher base Intelligence (++)
-5% experience bonus

Sorceress
She held the position of a powerful wielder of magic in the past.
-Higher base Intelligence (++)
-Higher base Mana (+)
-Bonuses to spellcasting

Witch
She used to be an elusive witch in her past, well acquainted with magic and natural remedies.
-Higher base Alchemy and Herbalism (++)
-Higher base Mana (+)
-Bonuses to spellcasting

Alchemist
Her job used to be concocting various potions and elixirs.
-Higher base Alchemy (+++)
-Higher base Brewing (+)
-Higher base Cooking (+)

Cultist
She was a follower of a pagan, animalistic faith. Her deity was cruel, unforgiving and bloodthirsty. 
-Higher base Spirit (+)
-Higher base Libido (+)
--1 morality every turn while morality is below 50

Nun
She used to be a humble and modest worshiper of a deity of some sorts.  She most likely wishes to pray daily.
-Higher base Dignity (+)
-Higher base Obedience (+)
-+1 morality every turn while morality is above 50

Priestess
She had a high position in some kind of an esteemed and proper religion.
-Higher base Dignity (++)
-Higher base Refinement (+)
-Increases the morality of all girls in the building by 1 per turn, while morality is above 60

Actress
She's was born to perform on the stage and fears no challenging movie director.
-Higher base Charisma (++)
-Bonuses to the Acting job (identical to the existing trait)

Porn Star
She has a long and famous history of working in the porn industry. Few straight men haven't seen her on screen.
-Higher base Charisma (++)
-Bonuses to the Acting job (identical to the existing trait)

Director
A skillful movie director in her past, she knows how to handle all kinds of divas and difficult actors.
-Higher base Spirit (+)
-Bonuses to the Director job (identical to the existing trait)

Chef
In her past, she was a professional performer of the culinary arts.
-Higher base Cooking (++)
-Cooking gains increased by 10%

Farm Girl
She was born, raised and worked most of her life on the farm, harvesting plants and tending to the animals.
-Higher base Animal Handling (++)
-Higher base Farming (++)
-Happiness gains increased by 10% when working on a farm.
Races
Code: [Select]
Human
Supposedly the most common, most versatile and most morally varied species of any universe.
-5% increased Experience gain

Elf
It is said all members of this pointy-eared race are born beautiful. This often makes them a victim of various mistreatment.
-10% increased Refinement gain
-10% increased Dignity gain
-Higher base Beauty (++)

Orc
While generally having a reputation of being savage barbarians and brutes, these natural warriors may exhibit a strong sense of honor and discipline.
-10% increased Strength gain
-Higher base Toughness (++)

Goblin
These small genetic cousins of orcs make up for their small stature with quick minds,nimble fingers... and often a nasty attitude.
-Higher base Intelligence (+)
-Higher base Agility (+)

Feline
Commonly known as a cat-girl, this monstergirl species exhibits various cat-like traits - ears, tails, fur and so forth.

Canine
Sometimes known as wolf-girls, this monstergirl species is related to various breeds of dogs and wolves, approrpiately enough exhibiting traits of those animals, including loyalty.

Holstaur


Reptilian

Lamia

Centaur

Harpy

Demon

Angel

Goddess


Gynoid
A construct resembling a female body, made completely out of synthetic material. More commonly known as a "sexbot'. Has no need of rest or food, aside from an occasional battery recharge.
-Tiredness always at 0
-Cannot be healed through conventional healing; requires repairs and maintenance
-Cannot be operated on in the hospital
-Cannot consume conventional food and drinks, certain consumable items would not be use-able

Shapeshifter
She has either limited or unlimited control over the shape and form of her body. This grants her tremendous flexibility in many aspects of life.
 
« Last Edit: April 26, 2015, 01:25:03 PM by 0nymous »

Offline 0nymous

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Re: Girl Classes/Races
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2015, 09:50:12 AM »
Double post, to prevent too much shit cluttering the OP.


I just realized that I deliberately did not include the existing Cyborg trait as a Race because  a Cyborg is only partially supported by or made out of technology and mechanical parts (as opposed to an android that's a completely new artificial being [gynoid being the term for female-shaped androids]). So rather than an original species/race of a girl, it's a transformation she underwent through and would classify as a normal trait.
But then I realized - wouldn't that also apply to all the undead traits as well, Zombie, Ghost, Vampire and Skeleton? Arguably some vampires could be born as vampires, but zombies, ghosts and skeletons are girls who underwent a transformation of sorts as well.
I'm a bit of at a loss here, if the new race should overwrite the original one, or if the "transformation races" should be kept merely as traits.
I think the latter is a more viable options, especially considering how for example there could be a difference between a human zombie or an elf zombie.
But I need opinions different than mine should races be limited to non-transformation kind only?

Offline Geron

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Re: Girl Classes/Races
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2015, 10:30:18 AM »
KISS: Vampire/Undead/Cyborg/Ghost/Skeleton/Werewolf are traits.  Not an actual distinct race.  Specifically cause they are transformations and still ave the distinct characteristics of their original race.


IE: Orc, gets infected, becomes Orc Vampire
Elf, gets killed and raised by Necromancer, becomes Undead Elf(or Elf Skeleton).




Though... it all gets muddled once you have interracial pregnancies and what-not... do you want to do half-breeds? Or is the child always the mother's race?  Or somehow figure it out as, 50% chance father's race and 50% chance girl's race?
I pick child is always the mother's race for simplicity.


IE:Human Vampire births, Human, with random % chance of inheriting Vampire infection.  (Or you could set it to 0% or 100%, but you can already see that many species chance in the trait inheritance thing is not 100%.)

Offline MMeer

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Re: Girl Classes/Races
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2015, 10:45:22 AM »
I propose that interacial pregnancies should result in a child whose "Official" race listed under their name is their mother's, but who are automatically given the 'Half-Breed' trait upon birth. It makes sense to do it that way in my opinion.

Also, Onymous, its more of a minor point but under the entry for 'Cultist', I think you might possibly mean 'Animistic', not 'Animalistic'. Depending on what you were trying to say about the religion of the cult.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animism

Offline Yukinohki

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Re: Girl Classes/Races
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2015, 12:06:32 PM »
Alien as race description should also be included, even if alien is a bit vague
but you could include all the Star Wars, Mass Effect, Star Trek, ... alien girls in that race
(specific alien races would go way to far)
i'm unsure about the best bonus for this, maybe something intelligence/tech related

Offline 0nymous

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Re: Girl Classes/Races
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2015, 03:19:51 PM »
KISS: Vampire/Undead/Cyborg/Ghost/Skeleton/Werewolf are traits.  Not an actual distinct race.  Specifically cause they are transformations and still ave the distinct characteristics of their original race.
IE: Orc, gets infected, becomes Orc Vampire
Elf, gets killed and raised by Necromancer, becomes Undead Elf(or Elf Skeleton).
We are in an agreement then.
Though... it all gets muddled once you have interracial pregnancies and what-not... do you want to do half-breeds? Or is the child always the mother's race?  Or somehow figure it out as, 50% chance father's race and 50% chance girl's race?I pick child is always the mother's race for simplicity.
The Elder Scrolls games have it that way. The child always inherits the mother's race. There's no orc/elf crossbreeds. I think for the sake of simplicity (from a gameplay perspective mostly) that'd be the best solution as well.
Although the idea of "unlocking" secret crossbreed races exclusively available only as your children does sound interesting... provided the PC's race could be something else than human.
Traits are inheritable as well, so it'd make sense if some girls could be born vampires, for example.
Also, Onymous, its more of a minor point but under the entry for 'Cultist', I think you might possibly mean 'Animistic', not 'Animalistic'. Depending on what you were trying to say about the religion of the cult.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animism
Actually, I was looking for a negative connotation of something animal-like, inhuman, violent and primal. Like a cult with goat sacrifices or something.
Animalistic: adjective 1. of, relating to, or resembling an animal or animals; brutish.
Animism is a form of belief that non-human beings have souls or spirits of their own.
Alien as race description should also be included, even if alien is a bit vaguebut you could include all the Star Wars, Mass Effect, Star Trek, ... alien girls in that race(specific alien races would go way to far)i'm unsure about the best bonus for this, maybe something intelligence/tech related
Yeah, I specifically left this out for now because there's a lot of various alien species out there in science fiction.
Let's say someone has a girl file of Liara T'Soni from Mass Effect. What should her in-game race be? Just alien?

Offline Yukinohki

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Re: Girl Classes/Races
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2015, 04:31:43 PM »
Let's say someone has a girl file of Liara T'Soni from Mass Effect. What should her in-game race be? Just alien?

I think yes, human would be wrong and implementing specific races would be way to much work
so alien as some kind of race group would be the best solution in my opinion.
Alien could be every girl from another planet and a science fiction background, which doesn't fit any of the other races.

Offline dmotrl

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Re: Girl Classes/Races
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2015, 04:56:07 PM »
KISS: Vampire/Undead/Cyborg/Ghost/Skeleton/Werewolf are traits.  Not an actual distinct race.  Specifically cause they are transformations and still ave the distinct characteristics of their original race.
With vampires and were-creatures, at least, there are universes where it is a distinct race rather than an affliction/transformation/curse/whathaveyou.

Every Class and Race should have unique and powerful benefits - since they wouldn't stack like traits did (so no bonuses for a girl being an Adventurer, Assassin and Maid at the same time, for example). This is why some of them may even seem OP.
What about long-lived (or simply extremely experienced) individuals who have multiple classes they would fit in?  Why can't someone be a Homeless Schoolgirl - what if she lived in a city where formal education was a requirement but the government didn't care about the individual's living conditions?  What if the royal bloodline always produces high-quality mages, so all Princesses received extensive magical training - would she be a Princess or a Sorceress?

As far as the classes go ... Mercenary and Adventurer are basically the same thing if you look at it from a "What do these people do?" perspective.  Or Merc/Soldier.

Soldier decreasing Dignity makes no sense.  Dignity should decrease slower, since effective soldiers are ones with a high sense of self-worth.  Arguably, Obedience would increase slower, although simply having a high Base Obedience is another option - it depends on whether the soldier views the PC as a legitimate superior (high Obedience) or not (slow increase).

Some of them seem to be based around a "This is what I think X entails ..." without an explanation.  Assassin, for example, has an AGL boost ... but that doesn't necessarily make sense.  An assassin is someone who kills for money, but whether that person uses the Wookiee approach (walks up to him and rips his arms off), is a Mage, a Poisoner, or a Blade-in-the-Dark isn't a prerequisite, so simply giving 'Assassins' an AGL boost doesn't make sense.

A similar issue with the Races - Elves are automatically the refined/beautiful race, not one of the more 'savage' 'wood elf' kinds.  Why are Orcs the 'honorable warrior' kind and not the 'vicious murderer' kind?

I'm curious as to why being human gets an XP bonus, too.

Offline 0nymous

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Re: Girl Classes/Races
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2015, 07:25:34 PM »

Lot of fair points.

What about long-lived (or simply extremely experienced) individuals who have multiple classes they would fit in?  Why can't someone be a Homeless Schoolgirl - what if she lived in a city where formal education was a requirement but the government didn't care about the individual's living conditions?
What if the royal bloodline always produces high-quality mages, so all Princesses received extensive magical training - would she be a Princess or a Sorceress?
I considered this. For the sake of gameplay and balance I thought keeping one class would be the best solution. I know there's a wide variety of characters out there, that may, for example, be a goddamn ninja maid street fighter (Iroha from Samurai Shodown/Samurai Spirits). In the case of that scenario the class of a girl would be:
a: decided by her more prominent class, the one she's better at
b: if the upper can't be established, it should be the last class in her life chronologically
c: it's up to the player to decide which class fits the character best
Ultimately though, I suppose some form of multi-class system could be established. These cases should still be rarities IMO at best, and the class amount should be kept to a certain limit.

As far as the classes go ... Mercenary and Adventurer are basically the same thing if you look at it from a "What do these people do?" perspective.  Or Merc/Soldier.
Are they? I can see how there may be some correlation between an adventurer and mercenary but I see certain clear distinction between the two regardless.
An adventurer is someone who, well... goes on adventures. The classic RPG primary character. He's not formally employed, but rather than that finishes quests and tasks, explores dungeons and all that kind of jazz.
A mercenary is a professional warrior who is temporarily employed for a very specific kind of work. Mercenaries usually operate in groups, more than often as soldiers for hire.
A soldier is someone in some form of governmental military organization and is on military pay.
Soldier decreasing Dignity makes no sense.  Dignity should decrease slower, since effective soldiers are ones with a high sense of self-worth.  Arguably, Obedience would increase slower, although simply having a high Base Obedience is another option - it depends on whether the soldier views the PC as a legitimate superior (high Obedience) or not (slow increase).
Don't know what my logic behind the Dignity modifier was at the time I wrote it. A good soldier is one that's resistant to demoralization. I changed the Soldier effects in the OP accordingly enough, they should make more sense now.
Some of them seem to be based around a "This is what I think X entails ..." without an explanation.  Assassin, for example, has an AGL boost ... but that doesn't necessarily make sense.  An assassin is someone who kills for money, but whether that person uses the Wookiee approach (walks up to him and rips his arms off), is a Mage, a Poisoner, or a Blade-in-the-Dark isn't a prerequisite, so simply giving 'Assassins' an AGL boost doesn't make sense.
This was more me wanting to "wrap up" all the ninja girls (because damn is there plenty of them) under the Assassin class. But I suppose you're right in the end.
Problem is - what kind of an effect would an Assassin class have except for combat effectiveness?
A similar issue with the Races - Elves are automatically the refined/beautiful race, not one of the more 'savage' 'wood elf' kinds. 

I know, I know, there's dark elves, wood elves, brown elves, high elves, pale elves, blue elves, space elves, and whatever-the-fuck-else-you-want elves. I tried to condense all the elvenkind races in something common to all of them- and that's physical beauty and grace. Keep in mind these are genetic traits of their race. And they don't have higher base refinement, only higher refinement gain rate. So "savage" wood elves, for example, wouldn't necessarily be more refined from the get-go, but the potential to become refined faster is something I thought of as being a genetic advantage shared with their other knife-eared cousins.

Why are Orcs the 'honorable warrior' kind and not the 'vicious murderer' kind?
Where does it say that? The description I wrote clearly states: "Often viewed as nothing but barbarians and brutes, these natural warriors often have a strong sense of honor and discipline." Often doesn't mean always. It's more of a general description of how their race is viewed. Which I changed anyways right now. And again, their base stats are gained to higher strength only -a genetic advantage of their kind. If you want an orc that's a vicious murderer- then that's fine, except the vicious murderer part would be covered by a separate trait, not their race.
I'm curious as to why being human gets an XP bonus, too.

In most fantasy settings humans are viewed as the most adaptable, "jack of all trades" kind of species...I guess. I thought it fitting. Perhaps no bonus at all would be better but that'd be boring. If you have another suggestion for what the most common characteristic of humanity is then by all means.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2015, 07:34:24 PM by 0nymous »

Offline MMeer

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Re: Girl Classes/Races
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2015, 08:04:23 PM »
Actually, I was looking for a negative connotation of something animal-like, inhuman, violent and primal. Like a cult with goat sacrifices or something.
Animalistic: adjective 1. of, relating to, or resembling an animal or animals; brutish.
Animism is a form of belief that non-human beings have souls or spirits of their own.

Got you.

On the issue of High/Wood/Dark/Grey/Sea/Space/Hylian/Pancake/WTFyouWant Elves and the different types of aliens: It would technically be more correct to make numerous different races for each individual type of Elf/Alien/Whatever. But from a programming perspective, there's no way that's gonna happen. In this situation is is better to organize closely related races (the various elves) or groups of races defined by origin (aliens: defined as any creature from another planet) into umbrella groups for classification purposes.

A possible solution to this would be the implementation of subraces. For example, under the girl's name in the 'Race' entry it would look like:

Race: Elf, Dark         or           Race: Alien (Asari)

for example. The main technical issue that I can think of for this system is that there may be innumerable subraces that people could come up with. So, subraces would probably have to be customizable, and I don't know right off how that would be done. Also, it's entirely possible that subraces are just flavor text with no real gameplay effects, but with aliens in particular there might be entirely different physiologies at work which would logically result in different traits. Especially Mass Effect's Asari, considering that an Asari could be impregnated by any sex act at all. I think that would be a significant unique trait.

Finally, 'Shapeshifter' may not necessarily be a race-level trait. For example, a human mage with a self-polymorph spell, a demon who could natural change form, a construct with transformer-esque capabilities, and a magical girl or super sentai who transforms to use her powers could all be considered shapeshifters. I think this one is best left at the level of trait.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2015, 08:13:16 PM by MMeer »

Offline dmotrl

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Re: Girl Classes/Races
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2015, 09:01:09 PM »
Are they? I can see how there may be some correlation between an adventurer and mercenary but I see certain clear distinction between the two regardless.
An adventurer is someone who, well... goes on adventures. The classic RPG primary character. He's not formally employed, but rather than that finishes quests and tasks, explores dungeons and all that kind of jazz.
A mercenary is a professional warrior who is temporarily employed for a very specific kind of work. Mercenaries usually operate in groups, more than often as soldiers for hire.
A soldier is someone in some form of governmental military organization and is on military pay.
Perhaps I should have said 'skill-set,' then - a Mercenary is a professional fighter who hires himself out to others ... which means he's going to have effectively the same skills as a 'soldier' if he's more of the 'soldier-for-hire' archetype or he's going to have 'adventurer' skills if he's taking other jobs (bodyguarding or other protection work, for example).  As far as the 'Adventurer' goes, if you're actually going for a realistic approach you'd be talking a jack-of-all-trades character, someone with a lot of breadth - bonuses to Medicine, to Cooking, and so on, and probably Toughness and Agility as well, because 'adventurers' are people who expect to not always have a stable base of operations.  I would certainly not expect them to have a better Combat Bonus than a Fighter.  'Mercenary' would also cover individuals in guilds that you can hire for specific tasks, too - and guilds can include Magic, Thieves', and other professions as well, so using Merc as the 'generic hired fighter' class is still questionable, as is the idea that they're group-oriented.

Quote
This was more me wanting to "wrap up" all the ninja girls (because damn is there plenty of them) under the Assassin class. But I suppose you're right in the end.
Problem is - what kind of an effect would an Assassin class have except for combat effectiveness?
Possibly a Charisma boost (to represent the intimidation factor a professional murderer would have, even if he himself isn't particularly impressive), or a resistance to intimidation similar to Iron Will or Fearless.  The problem is that 'Assassin' is such a broad concept you either need to go "Okay, an Assassin is XYZ with characteristics ABC and that's the way it is," or you need to split it into different groups.  Or just fold 'Assassin' into another group with similar characteristics.  :shrug:

Quote
I tried to condense all the elvenkind races in something common to all of them- and that's physical beauty and grace.
I would argue Charisma rather than Beauty.  Maybe it's just the other fantasy I've read, but I've always figured elves should be striking, yes, and attractive, but not, strictly speaking, beautiful by human standards, because they're just this side of the Uncanny Valley.

Quote
Where does it say that? The description I wrote clearly states: "[/font]Often viewed as nothing but barbarians and brutes, these natural warriors often have a strong sense of honor and discipline." Often doesn't mean always. It's more of a general description of how their race is viewed.
If it's something that gets pointed out in an objective description as 'often,' then it's something that's common enough across their race that a similarly general overview contrasting stereotypes can simply do without the 'often.'

Quote
In most fantasy settings humans are viewed as the most adaptable, "jack of all trades" kind of species...I guess.
Which I've always found kind of silly, since half of them have a dozen varieties of elves, dwarves, and other "demihumans" wandering around in different areas ... but "humans" are always "humans."  And why would such a short-lived species (relative to ... just about every other major fantasy race save the goblinoids) be the ones who have the most generalization when other species can have citizens who've lived for centuries and have more experience across a dozen fields than all the humans in Backwardsville, Nowhereland put together?

Quote
I thought it fitting. Perhaps no bonus at all would be better but that'd be boring. If you have another suggestion for what the most common characteristic of humanity is then by all means.
Eh, I was always fond of the 1E AD&D situation, myself - humans didn't have any advantages, per se ... except that they could outbreed anyone except the goblinoids, and they were tougher and better-organized than them, and that's why humans were the most common group you encountered.  As far as balancing them against the other playable races, IIRC they still had no advantages, but playing as a different race gave you a disadvantage.  Elves were more graceful, but had lower toughness than humans.  Dwarves were tougher, but not as agile and a bit more thick-headed.  And so on and so forth; your 'advantage' for being human was that you had no disadvantages, and you were part of the majority.

To put it from a different point of view ... for Elves, humans aren't as graceful, are pitifully-short-lived, and are generally crude and unsophisticated.  But there are always more humans, and they're tougher individuals, and if only one in a thousand humans is the equal of an elf in his chosen field, humans have those thousands.

Offline jimbobiii

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Re: Girl Classes/Races
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2015, 01:12:58 AM »
In regards to the potentially endless subclassing of races: Why not create a basic races XML that loads a set of default races on a new game (CoreRaces.racex or something of the sort), but also look for custom race files in a default or user-defined directory, for modders that want to create something more specific? In the event that a character file doesn't include a race, or the given race isn't found by the game, the default could be set to human or 'unknown origin'.

The feasibility of the idea depends largely on how much assigning race actually does - whether it gives a set of traits or something much more in-depth - as well as how much impact it'd have on the game's load time, memory usage, etc.; just figured I'd put it out there.

Offline 0nymous

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Re: Girl Classes/Races
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2015, 03:36:08 AM »

Perhaps I should have said 'skill-set,' then - a Mercenary is a professional fighter who hires himself out to others ... which means he's going to have effectively the same skills as a 'soldier' if he's more of the 'soldier-for-hire' archetype or he's going to have 'adventurer' skills if he's taking other jobs (bodyguarding or other protection work, for example).  As far as the 'Adventurer' goes, if you're actually going for a realistic approach you'd be talking a jack-of-all-trades character, someone with a lot of breadth - bonuses to Medicine, to Cooking, and so on, and probably Toughness and Agility as well, because 'adventurers' are people who expect to not always have a stable base of operations.  I would certainly not expect them to have a better Combat Bonus than a Fighter.  'Mercenary' would also cover individuals in guilds that you can hire for specific tasks, too - and guilds can include Magic, Thieves', and other professions as well, so using Merc as the 'generic hired fighter' class is still questionable, as is the idea that they're group-oriented.

You're giving this way too much technical thought. Not that you're wrong, but the classes are only meant to show a girl's background before her current "employment".  There needs to be obviously some kind of generalization.
I would argue Charisma rather than Beauty.  Maybe it's just the other fantasy I've read, but I've always figured elves should be striking, yes, and attractive, but not, strictly speaking, beautiful by human standards, because they're just this side of the Uncanny Valley.

That sounds strange to me.  In nearly every single setting, from original Tolkien, to Forgotten Realms, to The Witcher, etc. elves are clearly defined as naturally fair and
beautiful.
Strictly speaking, charisma has almost nothing to do with physical beauty (although being beautiful/handsome does help). It's either a talent or a learned skill. Hitler wasn't exactly an exemplar of human attractiveness, but he was unfortunately charismatic as fuck.

Eh, I was always fond of the 1E AD&D situation, myself - humans didn't have any advantages, per se ... except that they could outbreed anyone except the goblinoids

Well, we're not really operating under AD&D rulebooks, regardless of the edition.

It would be a tangible solution to give humans some small fertility bonus though. I still think the small experience gain bonus is fitting. Think about it - precisely because there's so many older and more experienced races around them, humans have to make up for their short lifespans with quicker adaptability and learning capabilities.
A possible solution to this would be the implementation of subraces. For example, under the girl's name in the 'Race' entry it would look like:Race: Elf, Dark         or           Race: Alien (Asari)

The way I saw it, it would just be solved by adding appropriate lines in the girl's description.
Same way, skin color, eye color and all the other non-defined traits with no tangible effects were handled.
But yes, you're spot-on when you say there's alien races out there with weird physiology, like the Asari space-magic reproduction system.
In regards to the potentially endless subclassing of races: Why not create a basic races XML that loads a set of default races on a new game (CoreRaces.racex or something of the sort), but also look for custom race files in a default or user-defined directory, for modders that want to create something more specific? In the event that a character file doesn't include a race, or the given race isn't found by the game, the default could be set to human or 'unknown origin'.

Full customization would be nice. Everybody cold write their own interpretation of how races/classes would work. I can't speak for it though since I don't do the coding around here. I'd imagine it could be added alongside customize-able traits, since that's what essentially the races and classes are.

Offline dmotrl

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Re: Girl Classes/Races
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2015, 06:41:07 AM »
You're giving this way too much technical thought. Not that you're wrong, but the classes are only meant to show a girl's background before her current "employment".  There needs to be obviously some kind of generalization.
You have three classes that amount to "This person used to hit things with weapons."  Mercenary, Soldier, and Fighter?   At least with Assassin and Adventurer there's leeway for those individuals who don't just use weapons.  I just keep looking at the premise, and then I see something that gets vague and specific at different points.  You have the issues I've brought up, you have the religious groups which automatically assume the dominant religion is the nice one and the "cultists" had the cruel one (Libido boost?  Why?).  Why wouldn't the Priestess (or a variant) increase the Obedience or lower the Rebelliousness of girls?  Surely some god/goddess is in favor of slavery, and a lot of the rest don't mind it, or else it wouldn't have the foothold it does.  You have 'witch' as a specific interpretation, instead of just being another magic user.

I admit that some of my objects probably stem from the notion of 'imposing' a certain viewpoint on Crossgate instead of leaving it more undefined.  That's not what you were going for, I think, but it is something that I think about when things like this pop up.

[quoteThat sounds strange to me.  In nearly every single setting, from original Tolkien, to Forgotten Realms, to The Witcher, etc. elves are clearly defined as naturally fair and [/font]beautiful.
Strictly speaking, charisma has almost nothing to do with physical beauty (although being beautiful/handsome does help). It's either a talent or a learned skill. Hitler wasn't exactly an exemplar of human attractiveness, but he was unfortunately charismatic as fuck.[/quote]
Well, like I said, it could just be the other stuff I've read, particularly recently - Discworld elves, for example, certainly aren't physically attractive.  In the Memory, Sorrow, Thorn trilogy, IIRC, the Sithi/Norns are beautiful, but the Norns especially are also eerie-looking, and going back to Norse mythology, you have the "Light Elf" and "Dark Elf" split, where the "Light Elves" were fair in appearance, but the "Dark Elves" were swarthy.  Eldar, too, are supposed to be just a bit off from human notions to be truly beautiful, since they're generally more graceful and beautiful than humans are comfortable with, giving you more of the Uncanny Valley effect.  Then you get the weird ones, like how Elder Scrolls 'Orcs' are just another elf sub-race, or the ES 'Dwarves' (much like Norse "Black Elves" are believed to just be another term for dwarves), or the elves of Lorwyn.

Also, in my mind, elves get associated more with longevity and magic use rather than attractiveness, so focusing on just the appearance seems to me to be doing them a disservice.

Quote
I still think the small experience gain bonus is fitting. Think about it - precisely because there's so many older and more experienced races around them, humans have to make up for their short lifespans with quicker adaptability and learning capabilities. [/font]
Yeah, I mean ... I don't really have a problem with it, it's just kind of a boring advantage that sort of makes sense.  It seems like it's more of a "well, here's a generic bonus so humans aren't useless."  I don't think you can really balance the races without reworking the system, though ... especially since when everyone has the same caps, the one who can grow the fastest anywhere is the most powerful.  Yeah, Elves start off more beautiful, and Orcs gain strength faster, but if you pit the two of them and a human in a race to see who can hit all the caps first, the human should win.  :shrug:

Offline 0nymous

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Re: Girl Classes/Races
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2015, 07:55:05 AM »


Man, I'm not some kind of official designer for Whoremaster, I don't get any ultimate, carved-in-stone say into what gets into the game and what doesn't, hell, I don't even know if the race/class system has any chance of being implemented at all so far.
I'm just a useless idea guy. I never said my ideas have to be the best or the only ones. You got your own ideas about classes or potential improvements to my suggestions? Go right ahead and just write them ITT. I can't argue with opinions. Although I do, in fact, appreciate the discussion nevertheless.

You have three classes that amount to "This person used to hit things with weapons."  Mercenary, Soldier, and Fighter?

If you don't know what the difference between a mercenary and a soldier in governmental military is then I honestly don't know what to tell you.
"This person used to hit things for out of pure greed for payment."
"This person used to hit things when ordered by a superior in a military uniform."
"This person used to hit other persons on the street fights or otherwise organised brawling competitions."
The Fighter class was strictly meant for all the girls out of fighting videogames (and there is a LOT of them: DoA, Street Fighter, Blazblue, KoF, and so on and so forth)
Should we just huddle up all these distinct professions into some kind of single "Warrior" class?


You have the issues I've brought up, you have the religious groups which automatically assume the dominant religion is the nice one and the "cultists" had the cruel one (Libido boost?  Why?).

Because there are pagan cults out there that have ritualistic orgies and whatnot and because the concepts of sexual purity and celibacy are commonly associated with more elevated and civilized religions.

Surely some god/goddess is in favor of slavery, and a lot of the rest don't mind it, or else it wouldn't have the foothold it does.
If you want to make an entire pantheon of classes for priestesses for fifty different gods with extremely diverse ideologies and beliefs, by all means.
The Priestess class was meant to be as ambiguous as possible for a good-aligned religion akin to Christianity, but never stated in the end. The specific religion the girl in question would follow would be left up to her description.
I guess we could establish a couple or more "official" existing gods in the Crossgate universe, but then it comes to question as to who exactly would responsible for all the lore and writing for Whoremaster.
Well, like I said, it could just be the other stuff I've read, particularly recently - Discworld elves, for example, certainly aren't physically attractive.  In the Memory, Sorrow, Thorn trilogy, IIRC, the Sithi/Norns are beautiful, but the Norns especially are also eerie-looking, and going back to Norse mythology, you have the "Light Elf" and "Dark Elf" split, where the "Light Elves" were fair in appearance, but the "Dark Elves" were swarthy.  Eldar, too, are supposed to be just a bit off from human notions to be truly beautiful, since they're generally more graceful and beautiful than humans are comfortable with, giving you more of the Uncanny Valley effect.  Then you get the weird ones, like how Elder Scrolls 'Orcs' are just another elf sub-race, or the ES 'Dwarves' (much like Norse "Black Elves" are believed to just be another term for dwarves), or the elves of Lorwyn.
Let's not get into different elf kinds in all kinds of fantasy settings, please. Like I mentioned, there's an incredible variety of them and they can't possibly all fit a single common ground. The bottom line is, most major settings have Elves as being physically superior to other species' in terms of beauty and grace.
Again, if you've got ideas about different elf races then just propose them.
Also, in my mind, elves get associated more with longevity and magic use rather than attractiveness, so focusing on just the appearance seems to me to be doing them a disservice.
Longevity should be naturally tied to race, but I haven't touched it yet because I have no clue what the lifespans of the races from gameplay perspective should be.  Magic capabilites should be more of a matter of traits and classes.
To quote you in your previous post... what about the more savage elves, like wood elves? They aren't particularly associated with magical skills, they're more of an archer/nomad people.
Yeah, I mean ... I don't really have a problem with it, it's just kind of a boring advantage that sort of makes sense.  It seems like it's more of a "well, here's a generic bonus so humans aren't useless."
Then it fits, doesn't it, as in most (MMO)RPG games, humans are usually the most generic race out of all choices.
Still open for ideas about a non-boring advantage for humans though, if you've got one.
Yeah, Elves start off more beautiful, and Orcs gain strength faster, but if you pit the two of them and a human in a race to see who can hit all the caps first, the human should win
In the long run, maybe. But in the beginning they're at a severe disadvantage. It's called balance.