devolution

Author Topic: balancing catacombs  (Read 15986 times)

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exodia91

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balancing catacombs
« on: November 14, 2009, 06:10:25 PM »
I recently played a few games, and I've noticed catacombs are.... way overpowered. you can put 3 decent gangs on it first week, buy some potions, and you will have a damn good income,so much so that you can ignore pretty much any other money maker if you want. Now, we could spend years tweaking death rate, money gain, etc. etc. and not get anywhere, so instead I propose this. Players can only put 1, maybe 2 gangs on the  catacombs job at any time. you'll still be able to earn a decent little income, but it won't be able to supplant/replace major moneymakers.

Offline delta224

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Re: balancing catacombs
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2009, 06:57:57 PM »
Yeah, the catacombs are out of balance, but I probably won't touch them until  1.30 comes out to see what has happened with the buildings.  It will be worked on though.

Offline letmein

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Re: balancing catacombs
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2009, 07:23:37 PM »
See, I'd go a different route.  If anything, make catacombs better, but increase the death rate considerably.  Make it so that untrained, ill-equipped gangs only have a survivor a quarter of the time (if that), and even completely buffed groups have substantial casualties every time they go.  Once gangs are redone (to make recruiting harder), this should be a substantial enough risk to compensate for the substantial reward.
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exodia91

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Re: balancing catacombs
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2009, 10:39:29 PM »
... the problem with that is, potions stop any casualties from happening, at least in the latest version, so you can just throw untrained goons at them with a bunch of potions and they will all ALWAYS survive. Unless this is changed (which would arguably make potions useless) that just makes catacombs more lucrative.

Offline letmein

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Re: balancing catacombs
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2009, 01:08:30 AM »
I guess I didn't mention it here, but elsewhere I have also noted that potions are way overpowered.
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Offline Midnight_Amratha

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Re: balancing catacombs
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2009, 02:41:38 AM »
suggestion, make the income of catacombs dependent on the number of gangs in catacombs.
1 gang = 100% income
2 gangs = 80% income (since the first gang took part of the loot before gang two got there)
3 gangs = 60% income (look above nut two gangs before)
4 gangs = 40% income

that should make the overpowered income look more balanced.

to clarify the income from looting: if one gang = 100 % of loot
if two gangs 80 % of total loot
and so on
The line between lunacy and genious is very thin.
So far i haven't been able to find it.

Offline DocClox

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Re: balancing catacombs
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2009, 02:49:36 AM »
Another possibility would be to have something follow the goons back from that catacombs. 

Maybe a party of dungeon crawlers from another dimension raid the brothel? You'd stand to lose more goons (from the squad(s) on guard duty) , loot (basic D&D mindset - grab the treasure) and possibly some of the girls in the dungeons.

Or maybe a particularly big monster backtracked the goon squad.

Offline letmein

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Re: balancing catacombs
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2009, 03:01:41 PM »
Good ideas.  My feeling isn't that the rewards of the catacombs are too high (if anything, the opposite is true) - the problem is that the risk is too low, and compounding on that is the unbalanced nature of gangs in general.
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Offline Midnight_Amratha

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Re: balancing catacombs
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2009, 05:24:49 PM »
i like the "it came from the desert" idea (read: it came from the catacombs) not all nice things may come from the catacombs, like a bug or a monster you need to combat, possibly a disease.
The line between lunacy and genious is very thin.
So far i haven't been able to find it.

Offline sgb

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Re: balancing catacombs
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2009, 05:45:15 PM »
I actually didn't have a major issue with gangs losing 5-6 members per trip, so long as the rewards justified it.  The problem was that recovering said 5-6 losses was taking 8+ turns, which was unacceptable downtime.  Now the risk/reward has swung full reverse thanks to healing potions being potions of immortality or something.  If they're going to continue being so effective, maybe up the catacomb rewards but limit searching to once a month or such.  Would make Catacomb Only items and girls more valued.

If you want steady income from gangs, the robbery options are supposed to cover that.  At the moment, nobody uses these unless a mission requires it.

exodia91

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Re: balancing catacombs
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2009, 05:51:47 PM »
the thing is, gangs shouldn't really be used for income, it detracts from the main point of the game, the brothels. At most it should be supplemental cash. I would personally get rid of the theft jobs all together, and just allow gangs to get limited gold from rival raids and catacombs, but only in limited quantities. put a cap on the gold that can be earned from catacombs, at like 2k per week.

Offline letmein

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Re: balancing catacombs
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2009, 07:03:32 PM »
Actually, now that there have been a couple item mods created, I think there's an argument to remove direct gold income from catacombs altogether.  Just let them give you girls and unique items.
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Offline Bloodly

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Re: balancing catacombs
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2009, 04:21:16 PM »
Screw that.  Catacombs is one of the only neutral gold supplies there is.  Remove it, fine, but ensure there's something else; something NEUTRAL, before talking of removal.  Strip Bar's low, Gambling Bar's too late, and the brothel itself tends to be flaky as hell in terms of income(and that depends if you want to run a 'brothel' sort of business to begin with).  It's fine for an evil playthrough as they can set up new buildings, but you'll never have enough customers for a single building even with the standard 20 room, let alone expansion.

WHy should I seek Petty Theft and Grand Theft-why should they and Extortion be the only ways for supplementary income?  Can't I run a decently classy joint, like Stringfellow's in Soho Square?  Why must all the options destroy your rep?  Actually, that's as much a flaw with the Rep system as anything else.  There's nothing you can directly do to raise it, and practically everything lowers it.

I'd prefer a split option.  Catacombs-Girls, Catacombs-Items, Catacombs-Treasure.  Lower the rates of success, but control what you get out as you wish.  Could allow a few more missions that don't involves getting new businesses.

Offline delta224

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Re: balancing catacombs
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2009, 04:31:53 PM »
Keep in mind that the building update may make this a moot point. So let us wait until that comes out, then figure out how to balance the catacombs.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2009, 04:33:54 PM by delta224 »

Offline Command

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Re: balancing catacombs
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2009, 07:50:43 PM »
Here's an idea for a balance for the catecomes and to have it possible for gang members to die even with potions.
 
Have it so that Every gang member has a certain number of potions they can use then factor a health for each character added to any defence or offence capabilities they have been augmented with.  The Magic capabilities and intelligance also would factor in as well. 
 
Or you could have a type of ambush creature lurking in the catecomes that your gangs has a 1 in 10 chance of having one of the members killed by the creature.  It could be known as a Stalker.  A very deadly and ellusive creature.